Author Topic: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference (Read 49407 times)

Soubirous · « **Reply #90 on:** October 30, 2023, 01:05:27 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on October 30, 2023, 11:55:44 AM

Soubirous, I'm not looking to get into an argument with you. The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy. It was enough for the Church to take the accusation of heresy seriously.

I'm not saying we should assume and charge Vigano with heresy, but there are too many who aren't even willing to question/doubt some of the things he says or does. All the while hurling insults and names at those who do.

Who's arguing???

The only reason I chimed in is because when I pray that particular litany and I reach that line, I'm reminded for a split second of these ever-ongoing forum discussions (to call it that). Even that split second is too much. Yet that split second of distraction is just what the prince of this world wants as a little starter wedge, wondering whether sol justitiae is on a gradual slippery slope all the way down to the luminous mysteries. Parce nobis.

As for Vigano, if I'd rather not be distracted while praying a litany, then I certainly don't want to get into a back-and-forth about him either.

Quote

Quote from: Soubirous 10/29/2023, 9:20:08 PM
Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus, towards the beginning of the miserere nobis set: Jesu, sol justitiae. Even I know this. OK, not "sol invictus" but "sol" no less. (Not getting into discussions about Vigano, Flynn, Bennyvacantism, etc.)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #91 on:** October 30, 2023, 01:26:09 PM »

There is a Christian tradition of likening Our Lord to the sun, so much so that some of the Church Fathers had to defend accusations of Christians/Catholics being sun worshippers. Church history is replete with the examples of where the Church took pagan customs, buildings, architecture (like obelisks) and Christianized them.

If you want to disagree with +Vigano's use of the expression, or the Christians who depicted Our Lord as Sol Invictus on their tombs, or St. Clement of Alexandria referring to Our Lord as Helios (Greek version of the "sun god"), go ahead.

But the problem is this incessant drumbeat of attacks constantly picking away everything and anything +Vigano has to say that could possibly be disagreed with.

What is the implication of constantly attacking him for using Sol Invictus imagery, eh? What's the intent behind these attacks? Implication is clearly that +Vigano is some kind of pagan / Masonic / Illuminati / Rosicrucian occultist who's "out to get" Traditional Catholicism ... in a way that remains to be demonstrated.

Every time we have anyone mention +Vigano, the same repetitive spam posts start flooding in the by the same individual(s) ... even though they've been refuted, addressed, and in some cases openly debunked.

Ah, yes, because he uses the common traditional pre-Vatican-II Italian missal translation of Amen in his writings, it's because he's a Mason using the "So mote it be" expression, which by the way is also a rip-off of Amen.

None of these regular +Vigano-slanderers have established what his agenda would be. For every conspiracy theory, there must be a cui bono, a benefit. What exactly has +Vigano accomplished for the "New Church Order" of Vatican II and the Conciliar Church? If I were a Conciliar conspirator, I would dispatch the likes of a +Schneider to keep the fence-sitting conservatives safely within the Conciliar fold, and not someone like +Vigano to lead them toward sedevacantism. I would have a +Schneider go out there and tell everyone that V2 could be salvaged with a couple small corrections, and that Bergoglio is the pope no matter what. I would not send out a +Vigano to say that Bergoglio was not the pope, and that the problem isn't just with Bergoglio but with all the Vatican II popes. I would not be having him go out there and rain on Matt's kumbaya Trad, Inc. party and love fest. That's the last thing I would do.

Maybe if +Vigano had set up some rival seminary to compete with Trad groups and was conferring doubtful priestly ordinations.

But he's done nothing of this sort.

People need to stop it with the petty vindictive uncharitable and downright slanderous attacks against Archbishop Vigano. It's a wonder he's become more Traditional as time has gone on given the kind of garbage he's been subjected to in the Trad-o-sphere. I'm glad he doesn't read CathInfo here.

2Vermont · « **Reply #92 on:** October 30, 2023, 01:59:51 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 30, 2023, 12:58:08 PM

You said the below:

The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy.

You/we all know that person A is innocent, and such charges were false. If you or anyone else brings up the charges, then you are giving them weight, as if they mean something. You're implying that person A was wrong, to some degree. This is disparaging to the person's innocence and reputation. And it only clouds the discussion because false charges mean nothing.

You are interpreting my words incorrectly. Speaking of false accusations.

I was merely pointing out that the Church did not poo poo the heresy charges against St Bernardino. They investigated them and had a trial. Given that people immediately poo poo anything negative said about Vigano (even if it ISN'T as harsh as a charge of heresy), I felt it relevant to show that, false or not, the Church didn't do that in this case.

The reality is that, for some of you, Vigano is the sacred cow.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #93 on:** October 30, 2023, 03:57:16 PM »

Quote

I was merely pointing out that the Church did not poo poo the heresy charges against St Bernardino. They investigated them and had a trial.

But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus.

The analogy would be that a guy was charged with murder, but found 100% innocent. But you keep bringing up the fact that he was charged with murder. This is slanderous and injurious to his reputation. He is innocent and any comments which imply guilt or dilute his innocence are sinful. By bringing up the court case and trial, you are implying he is guilty, to some degree.

Why is this so difficult?

2Vermont · « **Reply #94 on:** October 30, 2023, 04:28:40 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 30, 2023, 03:57:16 PM

But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus.

The analogy would be that a guy was charged with murder, but found 100% innocent. But you keep bringing up the fact that he was charged with murder. This is slanderous and injurious to his reputation. He is innocent and any comments which imply guilt or dilute his innocence are sinful. By bringing up the court case and trial, you are implying he is guilty, to some degree.

Why is this so difficult?

OK PV. You know better than the Church.

Meanwhile I won't poo poo some of the criticisms against your Sacred Cow (Vigano). In fact, given the reactions here regarding MP"s posts, I think I might look into some of her other points as well.

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #95 on:** October 30, 2023, 04:37:11 PM »

Sol Justitiae is found in the writings of saints and in prayers but there hasn't been any evidence provided for the use of Sol Invictus.

Here Lad posted that image which is the only one found regarding this matter and which nobody knows for sure if it's even depicting Jesus at all.

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/vigano-sermon-for-feast-of-the-purification/msg870287/#msg870287

In that thread he posted a video from a group of Gnostics which has the quote from St Clement saying that Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness,

not the Sol Invictus which he claims in this thread.

A few comments down Simeon made the comment:

"I'm not by a long shot an academic, but I've been poring over Catholic books non-stop the last thirty years. NEVER have I come upon the term "sol invictus" in the writings of a Saint (to the best of my recollection.)

Conversely, I've come upon Sol Justitiae more times than I can count.

and

Lad, can you produce a bona fide example of 'sol invictus' being used in the writings of a Saint? I don't want a pictograph, I want the exact words. I cannot think of anywhere I might find such a thing."

But none has ever been supplied.

Then Meg comments:

"The video you posted a link to is more than just heretical. It's gnostic. You really want a gnostic group to make your case for you? The makers of that video call themselves 'Astrotheologists.' Here's a link that provides more info about astrotheology:

What is astrotheology? | GotQuestions.org

Quote from the article on astrotheology: "Astrotheology attempts to twist scripture so that Jesus Christ, instead of being God's SON, is actually God's SUN. Astrotheology ties the gospel to ancient god myths and mystery religions. The idea is that the story of Jesus Christ is simply the story of man's relationship with the sun and the seasons."

for anyone who wants to see more about this group, just click on the link in the lower left hand section of the video that Ladislaus posted, which says 'Watch on youtube'. The link to the publishing house of the video can be then be seen in the lower left corner under the video. Its called Stellar publishing house."

From what I can find, Sol Invictus is what the Statue of Liberty represents and it has broken its chain which Fr Sanborn said represents breaking free from the Catholic Church.

The Statue of Liberty has the seven fold rays of Sol Invictus eminating from its head which Michael Flynn referred to in his Luciferian fake prayer to St Michael.

He has the MAGA crowd repeat, "I AM Freeborn, and I shall remain Freeborn!"

Luciferians believe they are free from judgement and "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law".

By contrast, Sol Justitiae appears to represent the coming judgement of God when Jesus returns.

Depictions show Jesus with his sword and his scales of Justice.

So when praying the litany you can simply meditate on the last judgement when Jesus will return and give righteous judgement to all. :)

Sol Justitiae by Albrecht Dürer

The engraving is inspired by this caption from Petrus Berchoius’ Repertorium Morale, a Biblical-moral reflective text intended for preachers, given to Dürer by his godfather:

Quote

“The Sun and Righteousness shall appear ablaze when he will judge mankind on the day of doom, and he shall be burning and grim. For, as the sun burns herbs and flowers in the summertime when he is the Lion, so shall Christ appear as a fierce and lion-like man in the heat of Judgement and shall wither the sinners.”

2Vermont · « **Reply #96 on:** October 30, 2023, 04:41:35 PM »

Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 30, 2023, 04:37:11 PM

Sol Justitiae is found in the writings of saints and in prayers but there hasn't been any evidence provided for the use of Sol Invictus.

Here Lad posted that image which is the only one found regarding this matter and which nobody knows for sure if it's even depicting Jesus at all.

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/vigano-sermon-for-feast-of-the-purification/msg870287/#msg870287

In that thread he posted a video from a group of Gnostics which has the quote from St Clement saying that Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness, not the Sol Invictus which he claims in this thread.

A few comments down Simeon made the comment:

"I'm not by a long shot an academic, but I've been poring over Catholic books non-stop the last thirty years. NEVER have I come upon the term "sol invictus" in the writings of a Saint (to the best of my recollection.)

Conversely, I've come upon Sol Justitiae more times than I can count.

and

Lad, can you produce a bona fide example of 'sol invictus' being used in the writings of a Saint? I don't want a pictograph, I want the exact words. I cannot think of anywhere I might find such a thing."

But none has ever been supplied.

Then Meg comments:

"The video you posted a link to is more than just heretical. It's gnostic. You really want a gnostic group to make your case for you? The makers of that video call themselves 'Astrotheologists.' Here's a link that provides more info about astrotheology:

What is astrotheology? | GotQuestions.org

Quote from the article on astrotheology: "Astrotheology attempts to twist scripture so that Jesus Christ, instead of being God's SON, is actually God's SUN. Astrotheology ties the gospel to ancient god myths and mystery religions. The idea is that the story of Jesus Christ is simply the story of man's relationship with the sun and the seasons."

for anyone who wants to see more about this group, just click on the link in the lower left hand section of the video that Ladislaus posted, which says 'Watch on youtube'. The link to the publishing house of the video can be then be seen in the lower left corner under the video. Its called Stellar publishing house."

I just re-discovered that thread as well.

Yep...and still not supplied despite him saying that he's cited the passage numerous times before. More of Lad's "debunking" I guess.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #97 on:** October 30, 2023, 04:56:11 PM »

Quote

OK PV. You know better than the Church.

I have no idea the point you're trying to make. The church investigated and ruled innocent. But you still point to the investigation....why?

2Vermont · « **Reply #98 on:** October 30, 2023, 04:56:51 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 30, 2023, 04:56:11 PM

I have no idea the point you're trying to make. The church investigated and ruled innocent. But you still point to the investigation....why?

As if that question wasn't answered.

I'm not getting sucked into a back and forth with you.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #99 on:** October 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM »

Nope. Hasn’t been answered.

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #100 on:** October 30, 2023, 06:01:58 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Nope. Hasn’t been answered.

Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus, which was previously associated with John of Vercelli and the Dominican order, Bernardino devised a symbol—IHS—the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings.

Opponents thought it a dangerous innovation.

In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.

Why did the Church believe this could be a dangerous heresy?

Because the Gnostic enemies of the Church, Hermeticists, Heliocentrists, Luciferians and pagan sun worshippers,

have used sun symbolism to deceive the faithful from the earliest times.

That's the point.

It shows we have to stay on our toes with this kind of thing as was made clear by Popes Pius VI and XI.

Trump's hero, Albert Pike, accurately planned the first two world wars and here is his plan for WWIII:

Looks like what we are seeing right now.

The goal of Masonry is to unite the whole world in prayer to Lucifer.

How will they get "the elect" to go along with that?

They have to be deceptive.

They seem to be succeeding at ʝʊdɛօ-Christian prayer rallies and MAGA shows.

Michael Flynn tells everyone he is Catholic and says his rosary and was raised in a family with 9 kids who all had saint names and he was named after St Michael the Archangel and he wants to lead the crowd in a prayer to St Michael.

Wow....sounds great, right!

Wrong.

People have to stay on their toes and ask questions. Notice the details.

The UN plans to unite the whole world under "Christ" with this prayer:

The Great Invocation

From the point of Light within the Mind of God
Let light stream forth into the minds of men.
Let Light descend on Earth.

From the point of Love within the Heart of God
Let love stream forth into the hearts of men.
May Christ* return to Earth.

From the centre where the Will of God is known
Let purpose guide the little wills of men –
The purpose which the Masters know and serve.

From the centre which we call the race of men
Let the Plan of Love and Light work out
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.

Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.

https://www.lucistrust.org/the_great_invocation

Lucis Trust was originally named Lucifer Publishing. Their god is Lucifer.

How many will be deceived when they unite the world under "Christ the King" with this prayer to Lucifer?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #101 on:** October 30, 2023, 07:02:51 PM »

Ah, OK, so now +Vigano is a gnostic pagan sun-worshipping Luciferian ... got it.

trad123 · « **Reply #102 on:** October 30, 2023, 08:04:35 PM »

At most, Flynn is a plagiarist.

Regarding Vigano, I personally see nothing wrong with attributing the words Sol Invictus to our Lord.

Our Lord is the true light; John 1:9, Sol Verus

Our Lord is the Sun of Justice; Malachias 4:2, Sol Justitiae

Our Lord is never conquered; He has conquered the devil; Augustine*; Sol Invictus

*Exposition on Psalm 149, St. Augusitne, paragraph 6

newadvent.org/fathers/1801149.htm

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #103 on:** October 30, 2023, 08:13:20 PM »

Quote

In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.

And he was declared innocent.

So everytime you mention he was charged with heresy, but you DON'T mention he was found innocent, you are slandering a dead man's reputation. Totally sinful.

But you probably won't stop, so carry on...

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #104 on:** October 30, 2023, 10:14:53 PM »

Quote from: trad123 on October 30, 2023, 08:04:35 PM

At most, Flynn is a plagiarist.

Regarding Vigano, I personally see nothing wrong with attributing the words Sol Invictus to our Lord.

Our Lord is the true light; John 1:9, Sol Verus

Our Lord is the Sun of Justice; Malachias 4:2, Sol Justitiae

Our Lord is never conquered; He has conquered the devil; Augustine*; Sol Invictus

*Exposition on Psalm 149, St. Augusitne, paragraph 6

newadvent.org/fathers/1801149.htm

So Flynn plagarized a Luciferian New Age prayer

and led the crowd to recite it with him

and that's somehow okay?

The thing is, most all of the doctors and speakers at the MAGA events have been exposed to be Luciferian New Agers with ties to the

Lucis Trust (Lucifer Publishing) United Nations:

TRUMP'S NEW AGE DOCTOR NETWORK / HUGO TALKS
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ndnP6qPkyGCi/

The link you provided for St Augustine's quote doesn't mention

Sol Invictus

anywhere.

Here are some nice folks celebrating Sol Invictus:

Satanic Temple members install display inside Capitol rotunda
State Journal-Register

For a third year, the Satanic Temple returned to the Illinois State Capitol Monday with an art installation to celebrate the “satanic holiday” of Sol Invictus.

This year’s display features the “satanic deity” Baphomet, depicted as a swaddling babe. It was designed by Albuquerque-based horror artist Chris P. Andres.

The satanic display was installed next to the Christian nativity scene holiday display inside the Capitol rotunda.

"This year's tradition marks a greater urgency in the Baphomet's message of harmony and reconciliation," noted The Satanic Temple's Director of Campaign Operations Erin Helian in a weekend press release.

Minister Adam with the Satanic Temple sets up a barrier around the “satanic deity” Baphomet, depicted as a swaddling babe, to celebrate the “satanic holiday” of Sol Invictus as the display is installed next the Nativity scene in the holiday display inside the rotunda of the Illinois State Capitol in Springfield, Ill., Monday, December 20, 2021. As the group installed the display, the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property recited the Rosary next to the Nativity scene.

The group’s displays have courted controversy, particularly from the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois and its head, Bishop Thomas Paprocki. He recently oversaw the installation of the nativity scene in the Capitol rotunda. At the event, Paprocki said satanic displays "should have no place in this Capitol or any other place."

Similar:Satanic Temple to install Sol Invictus holiday display at state Capitol rotunda

As Satanic Temple members installed the display Monday, the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property recited the rosary next to the Nativity scene.

Since 2018, The Satanic Temple has installed displays at the state Capitol. In 2019, it installed “Knowledge is the Greatest Gift.” It depicted the forearm of Eve from the biblical story of the Garden of Eden alongside an apple and snake. The group did not have an installation last year because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Awww...that's a sweet way to commemorate

SOL INVICTUS!

So it appears that when one invokes the term

Sol Invictus

there are some people out there who might

get the wrong idea.

Perhaps, it's one of those thingys that are best to avoid.

Author Topic: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference (Read 49407 times)

Soubirous

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Ladislaus

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2Vermont

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Pax Vobis

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2Vermont

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Miser Peccator

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2Vermont

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Pax Vobis

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2Vermont

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Pax Vobis

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Miser Peccator

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Ladislaus

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trad123

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Pax Vobis

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Miser Peccator

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