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:popcorn::popcorn:
https://www.edmundmazza.com/2023/10/24/archbishop-vigano-to-speak-at-online-conference/
Archbishop Vigano to Speak at Online Conference!!!
October 24, 2023 by Ed Mazza (https://www.edmundmazza.com/author/edmundmazza/)
“Is the Pope Catholic?”
A Conference Seeking the Truth about the “Two Popes”
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Pope_Francis_and_Pope_emeritus_Benedict_XVI_%29_Buona_notte%21_%2814589626816%29.jpg)
Saturday December 9, 2023
Featuring:
His Excellency Archbishop Carlo Vigano
Fr. James Altman
Fr. Paul Kramer
Dr. Ed Mazza
Ann Barnhardt
Elizabeth Yore
To REGISTER please email: edmundmazza@gmail.com
On February 11, 2013, two tremendous bolts of lightening struck the Dome of St. Peter’s Basilica, directly above the Tomb of the Apostle–the same day Pope Benedict announced his stunning Declaratio! Stranger still, in the Vatican, for the next decade, two men wore the signature white cassock, two men bestowed their own personal Apostolic Blessings on the faithful and two men were formally addressed as “His Holiness.” One resided in seclusion and self-imposed silence, in prayer and meditation at the Mater Ecclesiae Monastery in the Vatican Gardens. The other still resides in the Domus Sanctae Marthae, the Vatican hotel, which was built to house visiting cardinals. (Curiously, the Papal Apartments located in the Apostolic Palace since the 17th Century remain uninhabited.) The unexpected renunciation of Benedict and his perplexing presence in the Vatican as “Pope Emeritus” still confounds Catholics as much as–in some sense, even more than–the globalism and heterodoxy of the putative pope, Francis.
Now that the new “Synodal” Church is being foisted upon us, it’s time to seek the truth about the “two Popes.” It’s time for the silent majority to speak out. As conference speaker, His Excellency Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano has prophetically intoned:
Among the titles of the Roman Pontiff recurs, along with
Christi Vicarius, that of Servus servorum Dei [“Servant of the
servants of God”]. While the former has been disdainfully
rejected by Bergoglio, his choice to retain the latter sounds
like a provocation, as evidenced by his words and deeds.
The day will come when the Presuli of the Church will be
asked to clarify what intrigues and what cօռspιʀαcιҽs could
have led to the Throne him who acts as “Servant of Satan’s
servants,” and why they have fearfully witnessed his
intemperances or made themselves accomplices of this
proud heretical tyrant. Let those who know and who keep
silent out of false prudence tremble: by their silence they do
not protect the honor of the Holy Church, nor do they
preserve the simple ones from scandal. On the contrary,
they plunge the Bride of the Lamb into ignominy and
humiliation, and turn the faithful away from the Ark of
salvation at the very moment of the Flood.
Various speakers at “Is the Pope Catholic?” Conference will consider the possibility of 1) the invalidity of Pope Benedict’s resignation, or 2) the invalidity of Bergoglio’s acceptance of the Papacy, or 3) Bergoglio’s loss of office due to public material (if not formal) heresy.
Code of Canon Law of the Catholic Church, Canon 748 §1. “All persons are bound to seek the truth in those things which regard God and his Church…are bound by the obligation…of embracing and observing the truth which they have come to know.”
Fr. Franz Wernz and Fr. Pedro Vidal’s Ius Canonicuм, an eight-volume work published in 1943, which is perhaps the most highly respected commentary on the 1917 Code of Canon Law, states:
“Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumors in circulation.”
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Is this specifically a Bennyvacantist event? I know that most (all?) of the names in that list are Bennyvacantists, but is the purpose of the conference to promote Bennyvacantism?
EDIT: Either way I expect Vigano's contribution to this to be very interesting, especially in light of his recent "cancellation" by Michael Matt. I look forward to hearing what he will say. :popcorn:
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EDIT: Either way I expect Vigano's contribution to this to be very interesting, especially in light of his recent "cancellation" by Michael Matt. I look forward to hearing what he will say. :popcorn:
Popcorn for both of us. :popcorn:
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Register for the conference. It is free. Maybe you will learn the truth that Pope Benedict XVI was the pope until December 31, 2023, and that now we are in a period of sede vacante.
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Register for the conference. It is free. Maybe you will learn the truth that Pope Benedict XVI was the pope until December 31, 2023, and that now we are in a period of sede vacante.
.
Oh no! It's not going to be put on YouTube? I certainly won't be able to show up and watch at a certain time. My schedule doesn't allow something like that.
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Well I never thought I'd live to see the day when these folks all shared the same platform.
His Excellency Archbishop Carlo Vigano
Fr. James Altman
Fr. Paul Kramer
Ann Barnhardt
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Register for the conference. It is free. Maybe you will learn the truth that Pope Benedict XVI was the pope until December 31, 2023, and that now we are in a period of sede vacante.
Last I checked, you have to be Catholic to be pope.
Be not deceived!
The Heresies of Benedict XVI
1hour 7min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkPiaS1z6Vs
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.
Oh no! It's not going to be put on YouTube? I certainly won't be able to show up and watch at a certain time. My schedule doesn't allow something like that.
Then remain in your ignorance.
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Then remain in your ignorance.
CK,
Perhaps you were the downvote on the video I posted above.
Would you please help me understand what in that video you contest?
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Last I checked, you have to be Catholic to be pope.
Be not deceived!
The Heresies of Benedict XVI
1hour 7min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkPiaS1z6Vs
This coming from the guy who paints all bishops who signed the docuмents of Vatican II as de facto heretics. I will take what you say with less than a grain of salt.
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This coming from the guy who paints all bishops who signed the docuмents of Vatican II as de facto heretics. I will take what you say with less than a grain of salt.
Okay,
so are the VII docuмents not heresy?
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This coming from the guy who paints all bishops who signed the docuмents of Vatican II as de facto heretics. I will take what you say with less than a grain of salt.
Well, I don't believe all the bishops who signed were heretics, but Joseph Ratzinger's heresies could fill volumes.
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Is this specifically a Bennyvacantist event? I know that most (all?) of the names in that list are Bennyvacantists, but is the purpose of the conference to promote Bennyvacantism?
EDIT: Either way I expect Vigano's contribution to this to be very interesting, especially in light of his recent "cancellation" by Michael Matt. I look forward to hearing what he will say. :popcorn:
Let's first see if he actually attends. I couldn't find a reference to this online conference in his tweets or on his exsurgedomine.it website.
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Well, I don't believe all the bishops who signed were heretics, but Joseph Ratzinger's heresies could fill volumes.
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 This!
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..., but is the purpose of the conference to promote Bennyvacantism?
.
No, based on what it says, the conference is to focus on which of the following three reasons is the main one that proves Jorge is not the Pope:
Conference will consider the possibility of 1) the invalidity of Pope Benedict’s resignation, or 2) the invalidity of Bergoglio’s acceptance of the Papacy, or 3) Bergoglio’s loss of office due to public material (if not formal) heresy.
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No, based on what it says, the conference is to focus on which of the following three reasons is the main one that proves Jorge is not the Pope:
Conference will consider the possibility of 1) the invalidity of Pope Benedict’s resignation, or 2) the invalidity of Bergoglio’s acceptance of the Papacy, or 3) Bergoglio’s loss of office due to public material (if not formal) heresy.
They forgot #4:
Benedict's loss of office due to public material, formal heresy.
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Just out of curiousity....what do the faithful gain by declaring Bergoglio isn't pope? Is there an improvement in our relationship with Christ? Do we gain more certainties of Heaven? I'm just wondering why lay people need to engage in these activities. I'm not necessarily opposed to it on principle but qui bono?
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Just out of curiousity....what do the faithful gain by declaring Bergoglio isn't pope?
For indulters like Michael Matt, the Bennyvacantist theory lets them stay inside new-rome/V2 but still declare Francis a heretic. It’s a false and dangerous idea.
The true answer is all V2 popes are heretics, not just Francis. Hope Vigano points this out.
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Just out of curiousity....what do the faithful gain by declaring Bergoglio isn't pope? Is there an improvement in our relationship with Christ? Do we gain more certainties of Heaven? I'm just wondering why lay people need to engage in these activities. I'm not necessarily opposed to it on principle but qui bono?
Bergoglio teaches a doctrine contrary to Christ. The fact that he does so and claims to be the leader of the true Church is a horrible scandal. All Catholics have a duty to explain, when given the opportunity, that Bergoglio does not represent the true Church. He is not the leader of the true Church. When traditional Catholics look the other way and pay lip service to a false papal claimant teaching a false doctrine, that person "consents to evil."
St. Paul address this in 2 Thessalonians 2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, 4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. 5 Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, 9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, 10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: 11 That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.
Note how St. Paul ties "the man of sin" to the "operation of error" which is caused by a willingness to "consent to iniquity." When we "consent to the iniquity" of "the man of sin" we will be afflicted with "the operation of error." Those people will be unable to recognize truth from error because they did not care about proclaiming the Truth.
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Bishop Sanborn on why the Novus Ordo is not shocked by Benedict XVI acts of Apostasy.
10min 55sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlmFws7TMSg&t=530s
He has good thoughts but I think it also has to do with the ramifications of "going there".
IOW: If that is true then it will mean some other things are true that are too painful to face.
It's really painful to deal with but truth is truth and is always better than consenting to lies.
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For indulters like Michael Matt, the Bennyvacantist theory lets them stay inside new-rome/V2 but still declare Francis a heretic. It’s a false and dangerous idea.
The true answer is all V2 popes are heretics, not just Francis. Hope Vigano points this out.
THIS^^^
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Bergoglio teaches a doctrine contrary to Christ.
So did Roncalli, Montini, Wojtyla, and Ratzinger.
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For indulters like Michael Matt, the Bennyvacantist theory lets them stay inside new-rome/V2 but still declare Francis a heretic. It’s a false and dangerous idea.
The true answer is all V2 popes are heretics, not just Francis. Hope Vigano points this out.
Rest assured if the Bennyvacantists think he will, they will cancel him just like Matt did. That is, if he really is expected to be part of the conference in the first place.
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So did Roncalli, Montini, Wojtyla, and Ratzinger.
.
Yes, I kind of think it's going to be an awkward fit with Vigano in there with all the Bennyvacantists. Regular sedevacantism and Bennyvacantism are very different worldviews. I don't know all the other speakers that well, but Ann Barnhardt becomes absolutely vitriolic when she condemns regular sedevacantism. If Vigano is headed in that direction then I have to think this alliance isn't going to last long.
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.
Yes, I kind of think it's going to be an awkward fit with Vigano in there with all the Bennyvacantists. Regular sedevacantism and Bennyvacantism are very different worldviews. I don't know all the other speakers that well, but Ann Barnhardt becomes absolutely vitriolic when she condemns regular sedevacantism. If Vigano is headed in that direction then I have to think this alliance isn't going to last long.
I do think that +Vigano is heading in the direction of questioning all the V2 papal claimants, since toward the end of Vitium Consensus he mentions that the problem is bigger than Bergoglio, that it leads back to Vatican II, and that Bergoglio is merely the inevitable consequence of V2. So we'll see how it all plays out.
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Bishop Sanborn on why the Novus Ordo is not shocked by Benedict XVI acts of Apostasy.
10min 55sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlmFws7TMSg&t=530s
He has good thoughts but I think it also has to do with the ramifications of "going there".
IOW: If that is true then it will mean some other things are true that are too painful to face.
It's really painful to deal with but truth is truth and is always better than consenting to lies.
How painful will it be for them to face Christ after refusing communicates communion due to BoD...
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I do think that +Vigano is heading in the direction of questioning all the V2 papal claimants, since toward the end of Vitium Consensus he mentions that the problem is bigger than Bergoglio, that it leads back to Vatican II, and that Bergoglio is merely the inevitable consequence of V2. So we'll see how it all plays out.
Imagine if Vigano becomes full blown sede, rejects BoD/co, gets conditionally ordained and drops the child of light stuff. :pray:
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Imagine if Vigano becomes full blown sede, rejects BoD/co, gets conditionally ordained and drops the child of light stuff. :pray:
That "children of light" stuff is yet another slur against +Vigano by his detractors here. It's a term taken directly from St. Augustine, from his City of God, where he says that basically there are two camps, people tending toward the truth, toward the Church, even if they're not there yet, and people tending away from it. I do not find +Vigano's use of the term to be incorrect, though one might argue it should be avoided in today's climate of religious indifferentism. St. Augustine viewed the world as divided into two camps (at a high level), those tending toward good vs. those tending toward evil, the former whom he termed "children of light". +Vigano did not just make this up or pull it out of thin air. Even though they're not Catholic, there are many people out there who at least intend to adhere to the natural law and God's law ... and those who are opposed to it. So, for instance, there are conservatives who are Pro Life, anti-sodomy, etc. vs. those who are promoting sodomy and all manner of perversion. That dividing line is clear to see. It doesn't mean that they're in a position to receive supernatural life or salvation.
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+Vigano is no religious indifferentist. In his letter of June 9, 2020 ... where he first came out as a Traditionalist, responding to Athanasius Schneider by stating that Vatican II is thoroughly corrupt, cannot be salvaged, and must be thrown out completely ... see how he concludes the letter.
https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2020-06-09.html
Here is his concluding paragraph:
Last Sunday, the Church celebrated the Most Holy Trinity, and in the Breviary it offers us the recitation of the Symbolum Athanasianum, now outlawed by the conciliar liturgy and already reduced to only two occasions in the liturgical reform of 1962. The first words of that now-disappeared Symbolum remain inscribed in letters of gold: “Quicuмque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est ut teneat Catholicam fidem; quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit – Whosoever wishes to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; For unless a person shall have kept this faith whole and inviolate, without doubt he shall eternally perish.”
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop
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+Vigano is no religious indifferentist. In his letter of June 9, 2020 ... where he first came out as a Traditionalist, responding to Athanasius Schneider by stating that Vatican II is thoroughly corrupt, cannot be salvaged, and must be thrown out completely ... see how he concludes the letter.
https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2020-06-09.html
Here is his concluding paragraph:
“Last Sunday, the Church celebrated the Most Holy Trinity, and in the Breviary it offers us the recitation of the Symbolum Athanasianum, now outlawed by the conciliar liturgy and already reduced to only two occasions in the liturgical reform of 1962. The first words of that now-disappeared Symbolum remain inscribed in letters of gold: “Quicuмque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est ut teneat Catholicam fidem; quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit – Whosoever wishes to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; For unless a person shall have kept this faith whole and inviolate, without doubt he shall eternally perish.”
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop”
This is very good!
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Douay-Rheims Bible (https://biblehub.com/drb/1_thessalonians/5.htm)
For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
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“Last Sunday, the Church celebrated the Most Holy Trinity, and in the Breviary it offers us the recitation of the Symbolum Athanasianum, now outlawed by the conciliar liturgy and already reduced to only two occasions in the liturgical reform of 1962. The first words of that now-disappeared Symbolum remain inscribed in letters of gold: “Quicuмque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est ut teneat Catholicam fidem; quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit – Whosoever wishes to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; For unless a person shall have kept this faith whole and inviolate, without doubt he shall eternally perish.”
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop”
This is very good!
He speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
That was in June but just recently he told a crowd of
Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants, Atheists, and Catholics
at the Zionist MAGA rally:
By the Redemption we have been ransomed from the yoke of the devil, and through Grace we have supernatural assistance in fighting the holy battle against the Adversary of mankind.
Really???
See this thread:
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/archbishop-vigano's-message-for-the-reawaken-american-tour/
Some say he is still learning the faith and getting the hang of it, but his own words make it clear he knows the truth and then he publicly acts against it.
He has done this before. This article shows another example of him writing against ecuмanism and then publicly acting contrary to his words:
https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/
This is what all the concilliar popes have done to confuse the faithful.
For example, Benedict would say the Latin Mass
and then he would pray in a Mosque
and then he would say Latin Mass
and then he would pray in a ѕуηαgσgυє
and then he would say Latin Mass
and then he would pray with a female Lutheran Bishop.
same ol' same ol' smh
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By the Redemption we have been ransomed from the yoke of the devil, and through Grace we have supernatural assistance in fighting the holy battle against the Adversary of mankind.
Really???
It's too bad you don't know a lick of theology to know that there's nothing wrong with this sentence. It's true that all men have been ransomed by the Redemption, and people can be assisted by grace even if they're not in a state of grace ... it's called actual grace. You may want to look it up in the Baltimore Catechism.
You have not retracted any of the slanders you've made here publicly against him and it's clearly gotten to the point of grave matter.
Both of these venues were primarily political in nature and he delivered a video address to them, but now you're trying to spin it as if he had engaged in communicatio in sacris Ecuмenism.
Your behavior toward +Vigano has been utterly deplorable. You need to retract your many debunked slanders, like the accusation of Masonry, and should go to Confession about it.
Not only do you have zero grasp of theology, you also struggle mightily with reading comprehension.
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So, for instance, there are conservatives who are Pro Life, anti-sodomy, etc. vs. those who are promoting sodomy and all manner of perversion. That dividing line is clear to see. It doesn't mean that they're in a position to receive supernatural life or salvation.
Where is the anti-sodomy dividing line?
The Trump administration is starting a campaign to end the global criminalization of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity in countries where it is illegal to be gαy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFRMzR2v4tY
That represents the "Children of Light"???
(https://i.imgur.com/bIxri0n.png)
That represents the Redeemed "Children of Light" who have been ransomed by grace???
(https://i.imgur.com/eUca0sa.jpg)
Does that represent the pro-life "children of Light" assisted by grace in fighting a holy battle against Satan??
Is this anti-sodomy:
First Lady Melania Trump speaks to LGBT Americans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-_1TZP4CZc
I'm not seeing the line here.
Why gαy People and the LGBTQ Community Should Vote for Trump
"President Trump is the most Pro-gαy president in American History."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCLMkS3njE
Maybe you are right, Lad.
Maybe I don't understand how the Catholic Faith works because I don't understand how these people are the "redeemed", "children of Light". ??
I don't understand why he called the crowd,
"We the people aligned with God." ??
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It's too bad you don't know a lick of theology to know that there's nothing wrong with this sentence. It's true that all men have been ransomed by the Redemption, and people can be assisted by grace even if they're not in a state of grace ... it's called actual grace. You may want to look it up in the Baltimore Catechism.
You have not retracted any of the slanders you've made here publicly against him and it's clearly gotten to the point of grave matter.
Both of these venues were primarily political in nature and he delivered a video address to them, but now you're trying to spin it as if he had engaged in communicatio in sacris Ecuмenism.
Your behavior toward +Vigano has been utterly deplorable. You need to retract your many debunked slanders, like the accusation of Masonry, and should go to Confession about it.
Not only do you have zero grasp of theology, you also struggle mightily with reading comprehension.
Do you have any doubts/concerns about Vigano?
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Maybe you are right, Lad.
Maybe I don't understand how the Catholic Faith works because I don't understand how these people are the "redeemed", "children of Light". ??
I don't understand why he called the crowd,
"We the people aligned with God." ??
Yes, I am right. Maybe you should correct St. Augustine about his concept regarding the "children of light", where he divides human beings into two camps, those drawn toward God, whom he termed "children of light", and those who are militating against God. This does not mean everyone has supernatural salvation or have arrived at their destination, but St. Augustine wrote about two camps and two trends, i.e. that there are only two directions, toward God or away from him, in other words two "alignments". +Vigano is clearly referring to St. Augustine's City of God.
Then you can correct the Council of Trent (and other Councils and Magisterium) that Christ died for, redeemed, and ransomed all men ... even if not all receive the benefits of His Redemption.
Perhaps you should educate yourself a little bit before sitting in your armchair and pontificating about theological matters you know nothing about.
But, then, I've corrected you on these matters several times, but this does not stop you from spamming in the same nonsense over and over again. That's the point at which your malice toward +Vigano becomes apparent.
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Yes, I am right. Maybe you should correct St. Augustine about his concept regarding the "children of light", where he divides human beings into two camps, those drawn toward God, whom he termed "children of light", and those who are militating against God. This does not mean everyone has supernatural salvation or have arrived at their destination, but St. Augustine write about two camps and two trends, i.e. that there are only two directions, toward God or away from him.
Then you can correct the Council of Trent (and other Councils and Magisterium) that Christ died for, redeemed, and ransomed all men ... even if not all receive the benefits of His Redemption.
Perhaps you should educate yourself a little bit before sitting in your armchair and pontificating about theological matters you know nothing about.
But, then, I've corrected you on these matters several times, but this does not stop you from spamming in the same nonsense over and over again. That's the point at which your malice toward +Vigano becomes apparent.
Guess who said this Lad:
"We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness and light shall triumph over darkness."
Prime Minister Netanyahu.
Perhaps Vigano should avoid this kind of talk?
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Yes, I am right. Maybe you should correct St. Augustine about his concept regarding the "children of light", where he divides human beings into two camps, those drawn toward God, whom he termed "children of light", and those who are militating against God. This does not mean everyone has supernatural salvation or have arrived at their destination, but St. Augustine write about two camps and two trends, i.e. that there are only two directions, toward God or away from him.
Then you can correct the Council of Trent (and other Councils and Magisterium) that Christ died for, redeemed, and ransomed all men ... even if not all receive the benefits of His Redemption.
So a crowd of sodomites, Jews, Christian Zionists, Luciferian New Agers, etc.
are not the enemy of God but are
in the camp of those who are drawing towards God?
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Guess who said this Lad:
"We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness and light shall triumph over darkness."
Prime Minister Netanyahu.
Perhaps Vigano should avoid this kind of talk?
Ah, OK, because Netanyahu called good evil and evil good, we're now supposed to let the Jews appropriate the thinking of St. Augustine. Right .... In fact, we should stop saying that Our Lord is "the Light" also.
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Ah, OK, because Netanyahu called good evil and evil good, we're now supposed to let the Jews appropriate the thinking of St. Augustine. Right ....
:facepalm:
You don't even see that you can't possibly think poorly of Vigano. He can do no wrong in your view. That's obvious.
You act just as badly as those who see nothing good in him.
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+Vigano is no religious indifferentist. In his letter of June 9, 2020 ... where he first came out as a Traditionalist, responding to Athanasius Schneider by stating that Vatican II is thoroughly corrupt, cannot be salvaged, and must be thrown out completely ... see how he concludes the letter.
https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2020-06-09.html
Here is his concluding paragraph:
Douay-Rheims Bible (https://biblehub.com/drb/1_thessalonians/5.htm)
For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Valid points, unfortunately the ape of God disguises himself as an angel of light and luciferians also use the term. And while we shouldn't put our trust in princes (he isn't a valid bishop), it does seem Vigano is heading in the right direction. Especially that comment referring to the Athanasius Creed, it also destroys 'invincible ignorance'.
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Guess who said this Lad:
"We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness and light shall triumph over darkness."
Prime Minister Netanyahu.
Perhaps Vigano should avoid this kind of talk?
See
Douay-Rheims Bible (https://biblehub.com/drb/1_thessalonians/5.htm)
For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
and
Valid points, unfortunately the ape of God disguises himself as an angel of light and luciferians also use the term. And while we shouldn't put our trust in princes (he isn't a valid bishop), it does seem Vigano is heading in the right direction. Especially that comment referring to the Athanasius Creed, it also destroys 'invincible ignorance'.
I will give Vigano the benefit of doubt of the Children of light stuff (for now), but like to a good house holder I will watch and see what he continues to do.
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Ah, OK, because Netanyahu called good evil and evil good, we're now supposed to let the Jєωs appropriate the thinking of St. Augustine. Right .... In fact, we should stop saying that Our Lord is "the Light" also.
Here are some quotes from St Augustine on sodomy:
"Sins against nature … like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God's law, for our Creator did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which he is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust."
Further on he reiterated the charge that by this sin man corrupts and perverts his own nature:
"Your punishments [O God] are for the sins that men commit against themselves because, although they sin against You, they do wrong in their own souls and their malice is self-betrayed. They corrupt and pervert their own nature, which You made and for which You shaped the rules, either by making wrong use of the things that You allow, or by becoming inflamed with passion 'to make unnatural use of things which You do not allow' (Rom 1:26)."
So I just don't see St Augustine addressing the supporters of the
"Most pro-gαy president in history"
and calling them the "children of Light" who are "aligned with God". ???
Would St Augustine call sodomites, New Age Luciferians, Jєωs and Christian Zionists
"We the people aligned with God"?
You're right, I'm not a theologian but I just don't see St Augustine doing that.
Here are some quotes from St Augustine's City of God:
“Judaism, since Christ, is a corruption; indeed, Judas is the image of the Jєωιѕн people: their understanding of Scripture is carnal; they bear the guilt for the death of the Savior, for through their fathers they have killed Christ.”
“the house of Israel (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120104.htm) which [God] has cast off… are themselves the builders of destruction and rejecters of the cornerstone [Jesus]… the Lord Christ distinguished between His faithful ones and His Jєωιѕн enemies [my emphasis, also below].”
So I just can't see St Augustine taking part in this:
Jericho March™ is comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians [sic] collectively praying to God to intercede, expose a particular darkness, and bring about justice. As a community of believers, we take our petitions to heaven, and we know that our mighty and powerful God answers and can move mountains.
This Election Jericho March™ will culminate in a massive national peaceful prayer rally protest in Washington, D.C. on Dec. 12, 2020 called “Let the Church ROAR!” where we will march around the U.S. Capitol seven times to send a very clear message to national and state leaders as they hear patriots and people of faith roar in support of election integrity, transparency, and reform.
(“Dec 12, 2020 Events” (https://web.archive.org/web/20201212170742/https://jerichomarch.org/about/) at JerichoMarch.org; underlining added.)
"Let the CHURCH ROAR" ???
What "church" are they talking about?
Did St Augustine believe in a "ʝʊdɛօ-Christian church"?
And I just can't imagine St Augustine standing behind this banner:
(https://i.imgur.com/mYxieIB.png)
and calling the crowd:
"We the people aligned with God."
I'm pretty sure that St Augustine believed in the Blessed Trinity
so St Augustine's God is definitely not "ʝʊdɛօ-Christian" or Zionist.
It appears that Vigano has a different understanding of who God is
and who is aligned with Him.
-
Maybe because we have grown up in such an unChristian Era, we cannot rightly discern what true Catholicism is anymore. When a supposedly Catholic bishop publicly addresses a group of jews, heretics, new ages and pro-sodomites as the "people aligned with God." And those aligned with satan are the deep state Wef, globalists. And we don't see a problem with that? Not only that, but the person who calls him out is rebuked as slandering.
Diabolical disorientation! As Sister Lucy stated.
-
There’s political speech and there’s religious speech. Many of you cannot see the difference and expect clerics to only speak religiously and not politically. This is an error.
Vigano is very clear that he’s talking politically, because he names the enemies as WEF, Gates, etc. In the political context, anyone who is pro-natural law is anti-WEF, so they are on God's side (since the WEF is openly satanist). Vigano is speaking generally and not specifically. And he’s right. And many of these people may well convert when the Good Lord gives the Church a holy pope.
Those of you who keep trying to frame Vigano’s comments as some type of religious movement are morons and you can’t see the bigger picture.
-
There’s political speech and there’s religious speech. Many of you cannot see the difference and expect clerics to only speak religiously and not politically. This is an error.
Vigano is very clear that he’s talking politically, because he names the enemies as WEF, Gates, etc. In the political context, anyone who is pro-natural law is anti-WEF, so they are on God's side (since the WEF is openly satanist). Vigano is speaking generally and not specifically. And he’s right. And many of these people may well convert when the Good Lord gives the Church a holy pope.
Those of you who keep trying to frame Vigano’s comments as some type of religious movement are morons and you can’t see the bigger picture.
THIS^^^
-
Vigano is very clear that he’s talking politically, because he names the enemies as WEF, Gates, etc.
In the political context, anyone who is pro-natural law is anti-WEF, so they are on God's side (since the WEF is openly satanist).
First, the Jericho march was a self described prayer meeting by the ʝʊdɛօ-Christian "Roaring Church". It's a gave sin for any Catholic to take part in that.
As for the idea that supporting Trump is being pro God and pro-natural law and anti-WEF,
it's wakey, wakey time folks!
Trump and his supporters are not "pro natural law".
He is known to be the most "pro gαy president in history".
Trump is the most pro Israel president in history so he and his
supporters are most definitely NOT on God's side.
Trump is not an enemy of the WEF.
Their goals are the same.
Klaus and the WEF wanted to inject the whole world with gene editing nanotech.
Trump created Operation Warpspeed to inject the whole world with gene editing nanotech.
He is proud of it and wants to be known as the "Father of the Vaccine".
The WEF wants a worldwide surveillance state.
Trump created the REAL ID biometric digital ID track and trace system and the 24/7 surveillance center in Saudi Arabia
to track and trace all social media and all humans on land, at sea and in the air!
Here is Trump at DAVOS praising Klaus for doing a fantastic job
and when he is asked about climate change he says he is a big believer in the environment:
1min 7sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/PSavrttYEiBB/
He clearly is NO enemy of the WEF!
And Ivanka was a WEF Young Global Leaders member.
So no matter how you try to spin it, religiously or politically,
there is no excuse for Vigano continuing to support Trump
and there is never any excuse for a Catholic prelate to
LIE
to cover for a political figure:
"in order to advance the agenda of the Great Reset, it was necessary to get rid of Trump, who would never have allowed..the pandemic farce"
AB Vigano to the Reawaken America Rally 2 April, 2022
That is a blatant lie!
(https://i.imgur.com/cTKmHh2.png)
Nobody did more for the WEF and the Great Reset than Donald Trump and he is very, very proud of it.
Why anyone would trust Vigano after lying straight to your face I have no idea. smh
-
Miser, a prayer meeting/rally/parade…whatever you want to call it was political in PURPOSE. IT WAS NOT RELIGIOUS IN ITS GOAL. You obviously don’t understand the difference, either because you’re a simpleton or due to your pride. You are a prime example of why women shouldn’t be “leaders” because you are blinded by emotion.
-
Separation of church (religion) and state (politics) is condemned by the church. Our Lord is king over both. To say a Catholic prelate can promote a pro-sodomite, public adulterer as someone aligned with God is completely against Church teaching. If it is acceptable because Trump is political, then someone should have told Saint John the baptist. He would have not lost his head.
-
Miser, a prayer meeting/rally/parade…whatever you want to call it was political in PURPOSE. IT WAS NOT RELIGIOUS IN ITS GOAL. You obviously don’t understand the difference, either because you’re a simpleton or due to your pride. You are a prime example of why women shouldn’t be “leaders” because you are blinded by emotion.
I still think it was more than political. But, ok....let's go with the goal was "political". Do the ends justify the means? Does the Church allow Catholics to attend such a "political" rally where Catholics and non-Catholics pray together? How is this any different than Assisi? Isn't "praying for world peace" .... political? And if it isn't different, then why do Trads concern themselves with Assisi? Why is participation in Assisi condemned as a sacrilege (at best) and the participation in the Jericho March not condemned (and defended)?
-
How is this any different than Assisi?
:facepalm:
-
Miser, a prayer meeting/rally/parade…whatever you want to call it was political in PURPOSE. IT WAS NOT RELIGIOUS IN ITS GOAL. You obviously don’t understand the difference, either because you’re a simpleton or due to your pride. You are a prime example of why women shouldn’t be “leaders” because you are blinded by emotion.
(https://i.imgur.com/qPyr86n.png)
Pax, you missed the point entirely and then resorted to ad hominems rather than logic or evidence. You're smarter than that.
I demonstrated that it doesn't matter whether it was political or religious
there is absolutely NO reason for Vigano to support Trump in any way.
To say that Trump is the enemy of sodomy, the WEF or Bill Gates
is just some kind of joke right? :laugh1:
The most pro gαy president and "Father of the Vaccine"
is the enemy of sodomy, the WEF and Bill Gates?
On what planet does that logic work? :clown:
But Vigano didn't just support Trump
he LIED
to cover for him.
Why would you trust somebody who lies to you?
-
(https://i.imgur.com/qPyr86n.png)
Pax, you missed the point entirely and then resorted to ad hominems rather than logic or evidence. You're smarter than that.
I demonstrated that it doesn't matter whether it was political or religious
there is absolutely NO reason for Vigano to support Trump in any way.
To say that Trump is the enemy of sodomy, the WEF or Bill Gates
is just some kind of joke right? :laugh1:
The most pro gαy president and "Father of the Vaccine"
is the enemy of sodomy, the WEF and Bill Gates?
On what planet does that logic work? :clown:
But Vigano didn't just support Trump
he LIED
to cover for him.
Why would you trust somebody who lies to you?
And don't overlook Trump's
BIOMETRIC DIGITAL ID TRACKING SYSTEM:
https://www.tiktok.com/@yahshuas_chosen1/video/7244388850468965674?lang=en
Notice it's for ENTRY (yeah, like those pesky immigrants!)
and for EXIT (uhh...you mean like all Americans?? Can't EXIT without it??)
Yeah, clearly Trump is the enemy of the WEF and the NWO. smh
"You knew I was a snake when you let me in."
-
(https://i.imgur.com/qPyr86n.png)
Don't leave out his signature facepalms!
-
I demonstrated that it doesn't matter whether it was political or religious
It was a political rally with prayers. Primary purpose. The secondary issue is “what candidates were endorsed?” Of which, many were, besides Trump.
The last few months, you’ve been arguing that the rally was some sort of ecuмenical gathering (which it wasn’t). Now you’re arguing it’s wrong because Trump was endorsed (but many other candidates were endorsed, not only Trump). You’re just foaming at the mouth to condemn people and your principles are constantly changing.
-
To refresh our memories.....
The Mission of the Jericho March in their own words:
Mission
Jericho March™ Calls Upon People Of Faith To Prayer, Fasting, And Peaceful Protest In The Service Of God, And In Defense Of Life, Liberty, And Justice.
Jericho March™ is comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians collectively praying to God to intercede, expose a particular darkness, and bring about justice. As a community of believers, we take our petitions to heaven, and we know that our mighty and powerful God answers and can move mountains.
Jericho was a city of false gods and corruption. Just as Joshua was instructed to march around the walls of Jericho, Jericho Marchers march around at a specific place and time until that darkness is exposed and the walls of corruption fall down.
The Jericho Marches are also a unified celebration of authentic and diverse ʝʊdɛօ-Christian forms worship including praying, chanting, preaching, singing, rosary recitations, Eucharistic processions, and blowing shofars. Individuals and groups on Jericho Marches are self-led.
-
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/michael-flynn-reawaken-
america-tour/
This is also described as reawaken the "Army of God". Certainly religious in nature.
-
To refresh our memories.....
The Mission of the Jericho March in their own words:
Mission
Jericho March™ Calls Upon People Of Faith To Prayer, Fasting, And Peaceful Protest In The Service Of God, And In Defense Of Life, Liberty, And Justice.
Jericho March™ is comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians collectively praying to God to intercede, expose a particular darkness, and bring about justice. As a community of believers, we take our petitions to heaven, and we know that our mighty and powerful God answers and can move mountains.
Jericho was a city of false gods and corruption. Just as Joshua was instructed to march around the walls of Jericho, Jericho Marchers march around at a specific place and time until that darkness is exposed and the walls of corruption fall down.
The Jericho Marches are also a unified celebration of authentic and diverse ʝʊdɛօ-Christian forms worship including praying, chanting, preaching, singing, rosary recitations, Eucharistic processions, and blowing shofars. Individuals and groups on Jericho Marches are self-led.
The Council of Laodicea in 365 AD stated, “No one shall pray in common with heretics and schismatics.”
St. Cyril of Alexandria echoed these same sentiments when he said, “It is therefore unlawful, and a profanation, and an act the punishment of which is death, to love to associate with unholy heretics, and to unite yourself to their communion.”
Council of Carthage in the fifth century decreed, “One must neither pray nor sing psalms with heretics, and whoever shall communicate with those who are cut off from the communion of the Church, whether clergy or layman: let him be excommunicated.”
St. Thomas Aquinas, said, “To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls…Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates.”
They presuppose the erroneous view that all religions are more or less good and praiseworthy, inasmuch as all give expression, under various forms, to that innate sense which leads men to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule… to favor this opinion, therefore,
and to encourage such undertakings,
is tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.”
Let us focus attention on the phrase “tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.” This phrase is another definition of the word “apostasy.” According to Pope Pius XI, to hold to false ecuмenism and to encourage it, is equivalent to apostasy.
Vigano's attendance encouraged others to attend as well.
But it shouldn't surprise anyone because:
(https://i.imgur.com/aAs1q94.jpg)
See this video at the 7:31 mark
https://youtu.be/nES89qnv9x8?t=450 (https://youtu.be/nES89qnv9x8?t=450)
Plus, Shofar blowing calls forth the Antichrist:
• When Moshiach (Messiah ANTICHRIST) comes, the prophet Elijah tells us, the great shofar will be blown. Blowing the shofar speaks to us of the coming of the Moshiach (ANTICHRIST) and the great good toward which the world is moving.
So yeah, count me out of any communal prayer gathering which calls forth the Antichrist!
-
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/michael-flynn-reawaken-
america-tour/
This is also described as reawaken the "Army of God". Certainly religious in nature.
And by "God", Flynn means Lucifer:
Here he leads the unsuspecting crowd in a prayer to Lucifer!!!
2min 20sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/
(https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/)Also, the antivaxx doctors who attend these rallies who pretend to be Christian have been exposed as Luciferian New Agers with ties to the UN.
Here is a quote from Trump's hero, Albert Pike about what they really mean when they say "god":
(https://i.imgur.com/nVROhtg.png)
Of all the statues that were toppled during Trump's term he only requested Congress replace one:
Albert Pike
So yes, in consideration of all of this, I have to question why Vigano on two occasions referred to
Our Lord Jesus Christ
as the Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun)
which is the term used by Freemasons, Wiccans, and other Luciferians for Lucifer!
Luciferians celebrate the Sol Invictus Day:
THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST
In Luciferian circles,. Lucifer is the Sol Invictus, in direct competition to the Son of GOD, Jesus. Christ. ~The Church Age. BABYLONIA. MEDO-PERSIA. GRECIA.
Wishing Lucifer/Sol Invictus a happy Birthday on this ... - Reddit
Dec 21, 2021 — The world has been covered in darkness but starting today, we will see the return of Sol Invictus, Lucifer, the Bringer of Light, ...
How to celebrate Sol Invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/qji5bo/how_to_celebrate_sol_invictus/)
Oct 31, 2021
Sol invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/k46xqb/sol_invictus/)
Nov 30, 2020
Lucifer and Sol Invictus : r/LuciferianWitchcraft - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/LuciferianWitchcraft/comments/e2bhku/lucifer_and_sol_invictus/)
Nov 27, 2019
Happy Sol Invictus! : r/Satan - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Satan/comments/rn2lb8/happy_sol_invictus/)
Dec 23, 2021
More results from www.reddit.com (https://www.google.com/search?q=sol+invictus+lucifer+site:www.reddit.com&rlz=1CALAYK_enUS994US994&sxsrf=ALiCzsaSJe8fcVX_oLexNTeNv55c-q8DpQ:1666304520317&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5m5WI7O_6AhXfnGoFHYWdBPMQrQIoBHoECB0QBQ)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.6&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ-oAfwo8cLkH-OgjMl3EXTMtlVAZOB73h1UTK9ax6cw0AihQ9QcXwr-Cr99Vrz8ywN0XPwsFvVRwhJTg3X5rnVlwRvLc7wpTN-afYP1m8XrUqsy0pZdZ10_ms4&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10ob3o8)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.7&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9ZkEgmuPdIOTpqoZ3VhhU-1Wj59hoiBxxxTIZTyDh8uiOagqKjTwHK5jhY4D2hEeS_iTUzV1a6ghY7tkP9iNahE06QGXXG-6XURXh0M3MWCMsoMEr_Ft1YoYE&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10rtyk11)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8o5KVvtNetykeNXwVUpvCGmF0tOcJDCdFE-tdD5drSXCbcCUOsod0SoqA4I7PdtwHG8Lt714_uNYUXAgQeGzvE-dQUzgohHq2vE_C3Ln_NxhoahgcSvccO6VI&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10p52w10)
(https://i.imgur.com/BA0zpv4.png)
Here is a photo of a lodge named Sol Invictus:
(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/akgAR0a6rFXJqvnFIgn7PuoWc7XDghJqyz4Gna99vc6M-uKLn0HOj_eSblcLGdhwnycx8tFALUfJRyzhJg1DWaXuKoDwNXe5MqJaB3gloxLfOd18hNsgG3xaRtE=s0-d-e1-ft#https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1109599044316344321/iW5cWs_A_x96.png)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)Grand Lodge of Royal Art Study
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)@mlsarGrandLodge
Grand Lodge: the bilingual lodge Sol Invictus, No 13 has two new members.
#Freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday?src=hashtag_click) #FreemasonFriday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreemasonFriday?src=hashtag_click) #Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ?src=hashtag_click) #freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #freemason (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemason?src=hashtag_click) #masoniclodges (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoniclodges?src=hashtag_click) #masonic (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masonic?src=hashtag_click) #masons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masons?src=hashtag_click) #scottishrite (https://twitter.com/hashtag/scottishrite?src=hashtag_click) #francmasoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/francmasoneria?src=hashtag_click) #masoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoneria?src=hashtag_click)
(https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fnqopO199QZpxkTji3s0Ofy4yJKndyADoSq1htpGqetwxmIYJmgp68extGvzlEIGGY4=s0-d-e1-ft#https://i.imgur.com/qVxnc6i.jpg)
https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506 (https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506)
So why on earth would Vigano want to use a phrase with such associations???
And no it is not slander to ask these questions. It is our duty:
Pope Pius VI, Bull “Auctorem fidei," August 28, 1794: “[The Ancient Doctors] knew the capacity of innovators in the art of deception. In order not to shock the ears of Catholics, they sought to hide the subtleties… by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith which is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation.”
Pope Pius VI points out that camouflaging the heresies in statements that are ambiguous or seemingly conservative or contradictory was the tactic of the heretic Nestorius, and that Catholics cannot allow heretics to get away with this or deceive them by it. They must hold such heretics to their heresies regardless:
Quote
Pope Pius VI, “Auctorem fidei": “… it cannot be excused in the way that one sees it being done, under the erroneous pretext that the seemingly shocking affirmations in one place are further developed along orthodox lines in other places, and even in yet other places corrected; as if allowing for the possibility of either affirming or denying the statement… such has always been the fraudulent and daring method used by innovators to establish error. It allows for both the possibility of promoting error and of excusing it.
"…It is a most reprehensible technique for the insinuation of doctrinal errors and one condemned long ago by our predecessor Saint Celestine who found it used in the writings of Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople, and which he exposed in order to condemn it with the greatest possible severity. Once these texts were examined carefully, the impostor was exposed and confounded, for he expressed himself in a plethora of words, mixing true things with others that were obscure; mixing at times one with the other in such a way that he was also able to confess those things which were denied while at the same time possessing a basis for denying those very sentences which he confessed.”
Heretics have always used ambiguity and deception to insinuate their heresies and make them seem not quite as bad. In fact, the more deceptive the heretic is usually equates to how successful he is for the Devil. The heretic Arius effectively spread his denial of the Divinity of Christ because he impressed people with his appearance of ascetism and devotion.
Quote
Pope Pius XI, Rite expiatis (# 6), April 30, 1926: “…heresies gradually arose and grew in the vineyard of the Lord, propagated either by open heretics or by sly deceivers who, because they professed a certain austerity of life and gave a false appearance of virtue and piety, easily led weak and simple souls astray.”[143] (https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-benedict-xvi/#_edn143)
Pope Pius VI concludes his point by giving Catholics instructions on how to deal with such deception or ambiguity among the writings of heretics:
Quote
"In order to expose such snares, something which becomes necessary with a certain frequency in every century, no other method is required than the following: WHENEVER IT BECOMES NECESSARY TO EXPOSE STATEMENTS WHICH DISGUISE SOME SUSPECTED ERROR OR DANGER UNDER THE VEIL OF AMBIGUITY, ONE MUST DENOUNCE THE PERVERSE MEANING UNDER WHICH THE ERROR OPPOSED TO CATHOLIC TRUTH IS CAMOUFLAGED.”
Pope Pius VI teaches us that if someone veils a heresy in ambiguity, a Catholic must hold him to the heretical meaning and denounce the heretical meaning which is camouflaged in ambiguity. But this is only common sense: if a man says that he is against abortion, but repeatedly votes in favor of it, he is a supporter of abortion and a heretic. The fact that he sometimes claims to hold Church teaching against abortion means nothing.
https:// vatican catholic.com /anti-pope-benedict-xvi/
(https://i.imgur.com/BWSQYnP.png)
-
The anathemas relate to religious services. Many, many have argued on this site that one can “passively” attend a novus ordo funeral or a Protestant marriage. (I disagree, because this is a formal religious ceremony), but the argument remains.
Why can’t one “passively” attend a political rally with prayers? This is NOT praying “in common” or “communicating” per the councils you quote. Anyone who shows up at a political rally is free to walk away when prayers are said, or say their own prayers out loud, or not pay attention at all. Nothing is required or implied by attendance. It’s not a religious ceremony.
-
And by "God", Flynn means Lucifer:
Here he leads the unsuspecting crowd in a prayer to Lucifer!!!
2min 20sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/
(https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/)Also, the antivaxx doctors who attend these rallies who pretend to be Christian have been exposed as Luciferian New Agers with ties to the UN.
Here is a quote from Trump's hero, Albert Pike about what they really mean when they say "god":
(https://i.imgur.com/nVROhtg.png)
Of all the statues that were toppled during Trump's term he only requested Congress replace one:
Albert Pike
So yes, in consideration of all of this, I have to question why Vigano on two occasions referred to
Our Lord Jesus Christ
as the Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun)
which is the term used by Freemasons, Wiccans, and other Luciferians for Lucifer!
Luciferians celebrate the Sol Invictus Day:
THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST
In Luciferian circles,. Lucifer is the Sol Invictus, in direct competition to the Son of GOD, Jesus. Christ. ~The Church Age. BABYLONIA. MEDO-PERSIA. GRECIA.
Wishing Lucifer/Sol Invictus a happy Birthday on this ... - Reddit
Dec 21, 2021 — The world has been covered in darkness but starting today, we will see the return of Sol Invictus, Lucifer, the Bringer of Light, ...
How to celebrate Sol Invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/qji5bo/how_to_celebrate_sol_invictus/)
Oct 31, 2021
Sol invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/k46xqb/sol_invictus/)
Nov 30, 2020
Lucifer and Sol Invictus : r/LuciferianWitchcraft - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/LuciferianWitchcraft/comments/e2bhku/lucifer_and_sol_invictus/)
Nov 27, 2019
Happy Sol Invictus! : r/Satan - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Satan/comments/rn2lb8/happy_sol_invictus/)
Dec 23, 2021
More results from www.reddit.com (https://www.google.com/search?q=sol+invictus+lucifer+site:www.reddit.com&rlz=1CALAYK_enUS994US994&sxsrf=ALiCzsaSJe8fcVX_oLexNTeNv55c-q8DpQ:1666304520317&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5m5WI7O_6AhXfnGoFHYWdBPMQrQIoBHoECB0QBQ)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.6&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ-oAfwo8cLkH-OgjMl3EXTMtlVAZOB73h1UTK9ax6cw0AihQ9QcXwr-Cr99Vrz8ywN0XPwsFvVRwhJTg3X5rnVlwRvLc7wpTN-afYP1m8XrUqsy0pZdZ10_ms4&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10ob3o8)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.7&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9ZkEgmuPdIOTpqoZ3VhhU-1Wj59hoiBxxxTIZTyDh8uiOagqKjTwHK5jhY4D2hEeS_iTUzV1a6ghY7tkP9iNahE06QGXXG-6XURXh0M3MWCMsoMEr_Ft1YoYE&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10rtyk11)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8o5KVvtNetykeNXwVUpvCGmF0tOcJDCdFE-tdD5drSXCbcCUOsod0SoqA4I7PdtwHG8Lt714_uNYUXAgQeGzvE-dQUzgohHq2vE_C3Ln_NxhoahgcSvccO6VI&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10p52w10)
(https://i.imgur.com/BA0zpv4.png)
Here is a photo of a lodge named Sol Invictus:
(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/akgAR0a6rFXJqvnFIgn7PuoWc7XDghJqyz4Gna99vc6M-uKLn0HOj_eSblcLGdhwnycx8tFALUfJRyzhJg1DWaXuKoDwNXe5MqJaB3gloxLfOd18hNsgG3xaRtE=s0-d-e1-ft#https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1109599044316344321/iW5cWs_A_x96.png)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)Grand Lodge of Royal Art Study
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)@mlsarGrandLodge
Grand Lodge: the bilingual lodge Sol Invictus, No 13 has two new members.
#Freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday?src=hashtag_click) #FreemasonFriday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreemasonFriday?src=hashtag_click) #Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ?src=hashtag_click) #freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #freemason (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemason?src=hashtag_click) #masoniclodges (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoniclodges?src=hashtag_click) #masonic (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masonic?src=hashtag_click) #masons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masons?src=hashtag_click) #scottishrite (https://twitter.com/hashtag/scottishrite?src=hashtag_click) #francmasoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/francmasoneria?src=hashtag_click) #masoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoneria?src=hashtag_click)
(https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fnqopO199QZpxkTji3s0Ofy4yJKndyADoSq1htpGqetwxmIYJmgp68extGvzlEIGGY4=s0-d-e1-ft#https://i.imgur.com/qVxnc6i.jpg)
https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506 (https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506)
So why on earth would Vigano want to use a phrase with such associations???
And no it is not slander to ask these questions. It is our duty:
Pope Pius VI, Bull “Auctorem fidei," August 28, 1794: “[The Ancient Doctors] knew the capacity of innovators in the art of deception. In order not to shock the ears of Catholics, they sought to hide the subtleties… by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith which is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation.”
Pope Pius VI points out that camouflaging the heresies in statements that are ambiguous or seemingly conservative or contradictory was the tactic of the heretic Nestorius, and that Catholics cannot allow heretics to get away with this or deceive them by it. They must hold such heretics to their heresies regardless:
Quote
Heretics have always used ambiguity and deception to insinuate their heresies and make them seem not quite as bad. In fact, the more deceptive the heretic is usually equates to how successful he is for the Devil. The heretic Arius effectively spread his denial of the Divinity of Christ because he impressed people with his appearance of ascetism and devotion.
Quote
Pope Pius VI concludes his point by giving Catholics instructions on how to deal with such deception or ambiguity among the writings of heretics:
Quote
Pope Pius VI teaches us that if someone veils a heresy in ambiguity, a Catholic must hold him to the heretical meaning and denounce the heretical meaning which is camouflaged in ambiguity. But this is only common sense: if a man says that he is against abortion, but repeatedly votes in favor of it, he is a supporter of abortion and a heretic. The fact that he sometimes claims to hold Church teaching against abortion means nothing.
https:// vatican catholic.com /anti-pope-benedict-xvi/
(https://i.imgur.com/BWSQYnP.png)
“So yes, in consideration of all of this, I have to question why Vigano on two occasions referred to
Our Lord Jesus Christ
as the Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun)
which is the term used by Freemasons, Wiccans, and other Luciferians for Lucifer!”
Fair enough question. Does anyone have any references that prove the name “Sol Invictus” was used for Our Lord?
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Is Lou Holt going to be invited to talk?
He is so right when he says many are Catholics in name only.
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Fair enough question. Does anyone have any references that prove the name “Sol Invictus” was used for Our Lord?
I've posted this before ... sigh. But the obsessive-compulsive mental cases here ignore it each time. St. Clement of Alexandria referred to Our Lord as Helios riding in his chariot, there are early Christian tombs beneath St. Peter's that depict Our Lord as Sol Invictus, as well as other Christian iconography. It's one slander after another by the like of the Miserable Miser against +Vigano. Nobody says you have to like him, but that doesn't give her the license to slander him.
Miserable Miser also slandered him by alleging he was using a Masonic term at the end of his letters, "So may it be.", likening it to "So mote it be." I suggested that it's probably Italian translation for "Amen". We had an Italian Traditional Catholic chime in and post a picture of a pre-Vatican II Tridentine Missal which shows Amen translated as "So may it be." in the Italian, and mentioned that his Traditional Italian priest uses the expression from the pulplit.
No retraction from the slanderer. Instead she continued to make that allegation after it was thoroughly debunked.
It's pathetic, shameful, malicious, and sinful, the vitriolic slander campaign that this mental case has continued to wage against +Vigano. It basically started because +Vigano had some positive things to say about Trump, and she hates Trump with a passion because, despite all the malarkey she pushed here about the COVID jab that discredited the anti-jab movement, she couldn't get her own family to not get the jab. So she's taking out her own personal failures on Trump and then by extension +Vigano.
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I've posted this before ... sigh. But the obsessive-compulsive mental cases here ignore it each time. St. Clement of Alexandria referred to Our Lord as Helios riding in his chariot, there are early Christian tombs beneath St. Peter's that depict Our Lord as Sol Invictus, as well as other Christian iconography. It's one slander after another by the like of the Miserable Miser against +Vigano. Nobody says you have to like him, but that doesn't give her the license to slander him.
Miserable Miser also slandered him by alleging he was using a Masonic term at the end of his letters, "So may it be.", likening it to "So mote it be." I suggested that it's probably Italian translation for "Amen". We had an Italian Traditional Catholic chime in and post a picture of a pre-Vatican II Tridentine Missal which shows Amen translated as "So may it be." in the Italian, and mentioned that his Traditional Italian priest uses the expression from the pulplit.
No retraction from the slanderer. Instead she continued to make that allegation after it was thoroughly debunked.
It's pathetic, shameful, malicious, and sinful, the vitriolic slander campaign that this mental case has continued to wage against +Vigano. It basically started because +Vigano had some positive things to say about Trump, and she hates Trump with a passion because, despite all the malarkey she pushed here about the COVID jab that discredited the anti-jab movement, she couldn't get her own family to not get the jab. So she's taking out her own personal failures on Trump and then by extension +Vigano.
Talk about foaming at the mouth. smh :)
Anyway, have you ever heard of a Sol Invictus Catholic Church
or are there any prayers or litanies that invoke
Jesus as the Sol Invictus?
Nope.
There is a total of ONE depiction of Sol that some claim is actually Jesus:
The charioteer in the mosaic of Mausoleum M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Julii) has been interpreted by some as Christ. Clement of Alexandria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria) had spoken of Christ driving his chariot across the sky.[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Webb-2001-66) This interpretation is doubted by others: "Only the cross-shaped nimbus makes the Christian significance apparent",[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Kemp-2000-67) and the figure is seen by some simply as a representation of the Sun with no explicit religious reference whatever, pagan or Christian.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Hijmans-2003-68)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Hijmans-2009-14): 567–578
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus
Did St Clement actually call Jesus the Sol Invictus or just say He drove His chariot across the sky?
In any case, here is the ONE depiction that can be found.
It has the 7 Fold Rays emanating from it.
Michael Flynn refers to those 7 Fold Rays in his prayer to Lucifer I posted.
(https://i.imgur.com/ou8ALSP.png)
The Catholic Encyclopedia shows that the Church struggled to rid the Church of this cult:
Already Tertullian (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc)
had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God;
Augustine (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P.L., XXXV, 1652)
denounces the heretical (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm) identification of Christ (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) with Sol.
Pope Leo I (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09154b.htm) (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P.L., LIV, 218 and 198)
bitterly reproves solar survivals — Christians (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm), on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun.
Sun-worship has bequeathed features to modern popular worship in Armenia (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01736b.htm),
where Christians had once temporarily and externally conformed to the cult of the material sun (cuмont, op. cit., p. 356).
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm
Rosicrucian practitioners of the occult refer to Jesus as the Sol Invictus:
https://pixels.com/featured/2-sol-invictus-mysteries-of-the-christos-daniel-gautier.html (https://pixels.com/featured/2-sol-invictus-mysteries-of-the-christos-daniel-gautier.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hun9mQ6.jpg)
They are into Mithrayic mysteries:
https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-digest-mithraic-mysteries
New Agers say that Sol Invictus is "Christ Consciousness".
It's Teillard de Chardin's Cosmic Christ and
the Christ of the UN's Lucis Trust (originally called Lucifer Publishing).
There are soooo many beautiful, traditional titles for Our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is no reason for Vigano to use this term just as in most of his communications
which are not a prayer
there is no reason for him to sign off with "so may it be"
which is well known to be how the lodges end their communication:
http://www.heredom1224.it/la-libera-muratoria/i-doveri-di-un-libero-muratore-1723.html
People can Google "so may it be" and find plenty of info on that for themselves.
As I posted earlier, Popes Pius VI and Pius XI made it clear that the use of ambiguous terms with dual meanings that are common to the deceivers
should be pointed out
and that Catholics should avoid using them.
-
Anyway, have you ever heard of a Sol Invictus Catholic Church
or are there any prayers or litanies that invoke
Jesus as the Sol Invictus?
Nope.
Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus, towards the beginning of the miserere nobis set: Jesu, sol justitiae. Even I know this. OK, not "sol invictus" but "sol" no less. (Not getting into discussions about Vigano, Flynn, Bennyvacantism, etc.)
And about that now-familiar sun imagery going back to the early 15th century and St. Bernardino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Trial_in_Rome), no slouch there, canonized six years after his death, notwithstanding the anti-innovation opponents noted below:
Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Name_of_Jesus), which was previously associated with John of Vercelli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Vercelli) and the Dominican order, Bernardino devised a symbol—IHS—the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelphs_and_Ghibellines)). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings. Opponents thought it a dangerous innovation.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#cite_note-foley-6)
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Separation of church (religion) and state (politics) is condemned by the church. Our Lord is king over both.
The USA is not a catholic country and never has been. Practically speaking, the US was founded on this false principle and it has nothing to do with Vigano.
To say a Catholic prelate can promote a pro-sodomite, public adulterer as someone aligned with God is completely against Church teaching.
The Jericho rally was not 100% about Trump. Any pro-Trump statements in the past by Vigano were disclaimed by his "hope" that Trump would be pro-natural law. Vigano has never given a no-questions-asked endorsement of Trump.
If it is acceptable because Trump is political, then someone should have told Saint John the baptist. He would have not lost his head.
Totally apples-oranges comparison.
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Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus, towards the beginning of the miserere nobis set: Jesu, sol justitiae. Even I know this. OK, not "sol invictus" but "sol" no less. (Not getting into discussions about Vigano, Flynn, Bennyvacantism, etc.)
And about that now-familiar sun imagery going back to the early 15th century and St. Bernardino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Trial_in_Rome), no slouch there, canonized six years after his death, notwithstanding the anti-innovation opponents noted below:
Yes, it appears they were trying to distance themselves from the
Sol Invictus cult of Mithras
and replace it.
More from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
In the fourth century, Chrysostom, "del Solst. Et Æquin." (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: "Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiæ." — "But Our Lord (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm), too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . .,
But they
call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'.
Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) . . .?
Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun,
He is the Sun of Justice."
So not the Unconquered Sun
but the Sun of Justice.
The Unconquered Sun is Lucifer.
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Trump gives honor to the Sun god Apollo (another name for Sol Invictus) in his penthouse:
Donald Trump's 66th Floor Penthouse Exposes His Idol 'Sun God' Apollo, Son of Zeus
6min
https://www.bitchute.com/video/39TJaSxVQXct/
Note: This guy is not Catholic and doesn't understand the infiltration of the Catholic Church by gnosticism.
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The Jericho rally was not 100% about Trump. Any pro-Trump statements in the past by Vigano were disclaimed by his "hope" that Trump would be pro-natural law. Vigano has never given a no-questions-asked endorsement of Trump.
Vigano's participation was 100% about Trump.
After the death toll came out Vigano, who decried the gene editing shots,
continued to support Trump and lied
by telling the crowds at MAGA rallies that
the pandemic farce would have never taken place
under Trump.
This when Trump himself demands to be called the "Father of the Vaccine".
That's gaslighting.
Spellcraft.
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There is a total of ONE depiction of Sol that some claim is actually Jesus:
The charioteer in the mosaic of Mausoleum M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Julii) has been interpreted by some as Christ. Clement of Alexandria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_of_Alexandria) had spoken of Christ driving his chariot across the sky.[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Webb-2001-66) This interpretation is doubted by others: "Only the cross-shaped nimbus makes the Christian significance apparent",[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Kemp-2000-67) and the figure is seen by some simply as a representation of the Sun with no explicit religious reference whatever, pagan or Christian.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Hijmans-2003-68)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus#cite_note-Hijmans-2009-14): 567–578
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus
Did St Clement actually call Jesus the Sol Invictus or just say He drove His chariot across the sky?
Good question.
Did St Clement call him that or are we just assuming he did because of the chariot? I wonder if there are any quotes rather than just a comment saying he "spoke of Christ driving his chariot across the sky". Especially given it is mentioned in a Wikipedia entry.
I actually question the whole connection of Christ with the chariot.
St Clement's reference to the chariot (as depicted in the mosaic) may have been some sort of reference to the Old Testament prophet, Elijah (knowing there were many references made to Elijah with/about Christ in the New Testament).
The only time I recall any mention of a chariot is the reference to Elijah being caught up in a fiery chariot. I had never heard of Christ being connected with a "chariot".
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The Catholic Encyclopedia shows that the Church struggled to rid the Church of this cult:
Already Tertullian (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc)
had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God;
Augustine (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P.L., XXXV, 1652)
denounces the heretical (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm) identification of Christ (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) with Sol.
Pope Leo I (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09154b.htm) (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P.L., LIV, 218 and 198)
bitterly reproves solar survivals — Christians (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm), on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun.
Sun-worship has bequeathed features to modern popular worship in Armenia (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01736b.htm),
where Christians had once temporarily and externally conformed to the cult of the material sun (cuмont, op. cit., p. 356).
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas (newadvent.org)
(https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm)Although this entry discusses the date of the Birth of Our Lord, it is clear that the Church has repeatedly denounced connections with the pagan solar feast Invictus Natali.
Which is why I tend to think that St Clement did not actually call Christ "Sol Invictus".
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas (newadvent.org)
(https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm)Although this entry discusses the date of the Birth of Our Lord, it is clear that the Church has repeatedly denounced connections with the pagan solar feast Invictus Natali.
Which is why I tend to think that St Clement did not actually call Christ "Sol Invictus".
St. Clement called him Helios with his chariot. I cited the passage regardless of what you "tend to think". Can you even read?
Give this stupidity a rest. I'm sure +Vigano is some sun-worshipping Mason who'd harming the Church by publicly denouncing Bergoglio as an anti-pope.
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St. Clement called him Helios with his chariot. I cited the passage regardless of what you "tend to think". Can you even read?
Give this stupidity a rest. I'm sure +Vigano is some sun-worshipping Mason who'd harming the Church by publicly denouncing Bergoglio as an anti-pope.
What passage? I didn't see a passage....I saw your comments saying he said that. And even if he did say that, that doesn't mean it is a good thing to do.
I am discussing the issue. I'm not saying Vigano is a Mason. I never said I agree with MP on that. I do think it is worthy of discussion even if your loyalty and devotion to Vigano blinds you and makes you incapable of doing that.
And lay off the insults.
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What passage? I didn't see a passage....I saw your comments saying he said that. And even if he did say that, that doesn't mean it is a good thing to do.
I am discussing the issue. I'm not saying Vigano is a Mason. I never said I agree with MP on that. I do think it is worthy of discussion even if your loyalty and devotion to Vigano blinds you and makes you incapable of doing that.
I've cited the passage several times as this stupidity keeps coming up.
Well, then, what are you claiming about +Vigano with his "Sol Invictus" imagery? What are the implications? That he's some kind of Masonic Rosicrucian sun-worshipper?
Disagree with his use of the imagery if you want (though the association between Our Lord and the sun is nearly as old as Christianity itself ... one of the reasons Christians faced East and awaited the rising sun for Mass), but what exactly are the implications you're making by constantly bringing this up?
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I've cited the passage several times as this stupidity keeps coming up.
Well, then, what are you claiming about +Vigano with his "Sol Invictus" imagery? What are the implications? That he's some kind of Masonic Rosicrucian sun-worshipper?
Disagree with his use of the imagery if you want (though the association between Our Lord and the sun is nearly as old as Christianity itself ... one of the reasons Christians faced East and awaited the rising sun for Mass), but what exactly are the implications you're making by constantly bringing this up?
Oh, so there was no passage and yet you insulted my ability to read?
For your information, I have not "constantly" brought this up. In fact, this is actually the first time I am even considering it. I have never "brought it up". As such, I have made no conclusions.
What I am sure of is I am not convinced Vigano is all what he's cracked up to be....unlike you.
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Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus, towards the beginning of the miserere nobis set: Jesu, sol justitiae. Even I know this. OK, not "sol invictus" but "sol" no less. (Not getting into discussions about Vigano, Flynn, Bennyvacantism, etc.)
And about that now-familiar sun imagery going back to the early 15th century and St. Bernardino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Trial_in_Rome), no slouch there, canonized six years after his death, notwithstanding the anti-innovation opponents noted below:
If we read further, it appears that he was brought to Rome on suspect of heresy:
Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Name_of_Jesus), which was previously associated with John of Vercelli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Vercelli) and the Dominican order, Bernardino devised a symbol—IHS—the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelphs_and_Ghibellines)). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings. Opponents thought it a dangerous innovation. In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.
He was acquitted, but it certainly should be noted that this was not something the Church poo-pooed.
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I've cited the passage several times as this stupidity keeps coming up.
Well, then, what are you claiming about +Vigano with his "Sol Invictus" imagery? What are the implications? That he's some kind of Masonic Rosicrucian sun-worshipper?
I actually think he's a perfect modernist who believes he can reach the luciferians by using their language and imagery.
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What I am sure of is I am not convinced Vigano is all what he's cracked up to be....unlike you.
This ^^ is wise. Even if he is sincere, and fwiw, I think he is, we gotta remember that he's been NO since the NO began, which means he still has much to learn about the Catholic faith and about tradition, he just does. Some trads are apparently looking to the good Archbishop in much the same way voters looked to Trump, we all know how that worked out, hopefully this will not be a repeat of that.
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Disagree with his use of the imagery if you want (though the association between Our Lord and the sun is nearly as old as Christianity itself ... one of the reasons Christians faced East and awaited the rising sun for Mass), but what exactly are the implications you're making by constantly bringing this up?
Christ is the "light of the world". What is the natural light of the world? The sun. Put 2 and 2 together and the association of Christ with the sun totally makes sense. Plus, since paganism worshiped the sun in the past, the Church wants to rehabilitate this custom (similar to how the Church rehabilitated the pagan festivals in Dec with Christmas, and the spring with Easter), to turn sun-worship into Christ-worship.
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This ^^ is wise. Even if he is sincere, and fwiw, I think he is, we gotta remember that he's been NO since the NO began, which means he still has much to learn about the Catholic faith and about tradition, he just does. Some trads are apparently looking to the good Archbishop in much the same way voters looked to Trump, we all know how that worked out, hopefully this will not be a repeat of that.
No one is blindly supporting Vigano, we're just objecting to stupid, short-sighted, half-truth-filled "evidence" against him. You have to clean out all the garbage accusations, so that if/when something real and problematic arises, then this red-flag will be noticed right away. On the other hand, if no big red flags come to light, then maybe he's just a guy struggling to throw away his novus ordo programming and be a Trad? We still don't know. But all these circuмstantial accusations are sins against charity and hurt the search for true answers on him.
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If we read further, it appears that he was brought to Rome on suspect of heresy:
[...]
He was acquitted, but it certainly should be noted that this was not something the Church poo-pooed.
And if we read further, Bernardino of Siena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Bernardino_as_preacher) was a popular itinerant preacher who did not shirk from calling out the corruption of his time. Decades before Savanarola's bonfires of the vanities, St. Bernardino was already attracting crowds by torching piles of what he preached to be objects of sin. In his preaching, he irked the wrong people: usurers, sodomites, those profiting from gambling, vendors of luxury goods, etc., i.e., the worldly constituents of those who agitated in Rome against him.
Point being, there are charges of heresy on solid theological grounds, and then there are charges of heresy that serve ulterior motives. The enemies of the Faith gleefully know that big-boy infighting at the macro level has the convenient side-effect of sowing insidious latent doubt at the little-guy micro level too, even in the minutiae of sol justitiae vs. sol invictus, whether in the 15th century or the 21st century.
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And if we read further, Bernardino of Siena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Bernardino_as_preacher) was a popular itinerant preacher who did not shirk from calling out the corruption of his time. Decades before Savanarola's bonfires of the vanities, St. Bernardino was already attracting crowds by torching piles of what he preached to be objects of sin. In his preaching, he irked the wrong people: usurers, sodomites, those profiting from gambling, vendors of luxury goods, etc., i.e., the worldly constituents of those who agitated in Rome against him.
Point being, there are charges of heresy on solid theological grounds, and then there are charges of heresy that serve ulterior motives. The enemies of the Faith gleefully know that big-boy infighting at the macro level has the convenient side-effect of sowing insidious latent doubt at the little-guy micro level too, even in the minutiae of sol justitiae vs. sol invictus, whether in the 15th century or the 21st century.
Hermeticism and heliocentrism has been a thorn in the side of the Church for centuries.
So despite his acts of holiness, the minutiae of words matter.
Quoting again:
Pope Pius XI, Rite expiatis (# 6), April 30, 1926: “…heresies gradually arose and grew in the vineyard of the Lord, propagated either by open heretics or by sly deceivers who, because they professed a certain austerity of life and gave a false appearance of virtue and piety, easily led weak and simple souls astray.”[143] (https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/anti-pope-benedict-xvi/#_edn143)
To be clear: I have never declared that V is a Mason.
I have pointed out that he is using phrases that most Catholics don't recognize
but are very well known calling cards to Masons, Wiccans, Rosicrucians, Satanists, New Age Luciferians...etc.
He is using the term they use for their god Lucifer and
the term they use to close their communications and spells.
And then I asked the question, WHY?
This is in accordance with the directives of Popes Pius VI and XI which I docuмented earlier in this thread.
Again:
Pope Pius VI, Bull “Auctorem fidei," August 28, 1794: “[The Ancient Doctors] knew the capacity of innovators in the art of deception. In order not to shock the ears of Catholics, they sought to hide the subtleties… by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith which is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation.”
"In order to expose such snares, something which becomes necessary with a certain frequency in every century, no other method is required than the following:
WHENEVER IT BECOMES NECESSARY TO EXPOSE STATEMENTS WHICH DISGUISE SOME SUSPECTED ERROR OR DANGER UNDER THE VEIL OF AMBIGUITY, ONE MUST DENOUNCE THE PERVERSE MEANING UNDER WHICH THE ERROR OPPOSED TO CATHOLIC TRUTH IS CAMOUFLAGED.”
So red flags are to be called out even if they aren't proof.
There is no reason for Vigano to use such phrases.
What we do have 100% undeniable proof of, however
is that Vigano LIED
to cover for Trump's responsibility as the overseer of the pandemic farce and the
Father of the Vaccine.
Plus he continues to tell people Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates
when it is obvious to anyone who will take off their "hero goggles"
for just a moment and notice that
they are in fact implementing the same objectives.
Plus his promotion of ecuмenical Zionist prayer rallies.
That is undeniable.
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Vigano has also named three "Katechons":
1. Benedict the heretic:
(https://i.imgur.com/XhCaWWJ.png)
Here is Benedict, the Katechon, holding back the antichrist. :laugh1:
2. Trump
(https://i.imgur.com/IR7DMIF.png)
Yes, Trump is clearly holding back the Moshiach. :clown:
3. Moscow, which he calls the "Third Rome".
This is the doctrine of his Russian symposium partner, Dugin, who also happens to be a Freemason, Crowleyan Satanist who declared we have to:
"dismantle Catholicism from the inside, strengthen Polish Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, support destructive secular movements, and promote heterodox and anti-papal Christianity. Catholicism cannot be absorbed into our tradition unless it is deeply reoriented in a nationalistic and anti-papal direction."
:trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface::trollface:
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And if we read further, Bernardino of Siena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardino_of_Siena#Bernardino_as_preacher) was a popular itinerant preacher who did not shirk from calling out the corruption of his time. Decades before Savanarola's bonfires of the vanities, St. Bernardino was already attracting crowds by torching piles of what he preached to be objects of sin. In his preaching, he irked the wrong people: usurers, sodomites, those profiting from gambling, vendors of luxury goods, etc., i.e., the worldly constituents of those who agitated in Rome against him.
Point being, there are charges of heresy on solid theological grounds, and then there are charges of heresy that serve ulterior motives. The enemies of the Faith gleefully know that big-boy infighting at the macro level has the convenient side-effect of sowing insidious latent doubt at the little-guy micro level too, even in the minutiae of sol justitiae vs. sol invictus, whether in the 15th century or the 21st century.
Soubirous, I'm not looking to get into an argument with you. The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy. It was enough for the Church to take the accusation of heresy seriously.
I'm not saying we should assume and charge Vigano with heresy, but there are too many who aren't even willing to question/doubt some of the things he says or does. All the while hurling insults and names at those who do.
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Soubirous, I'm not looking to get into an argument with you. The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy. It was enough for the Church to take the accusation of heresy seriously.
:facepalm: And the accusation was proven false, no? Yet you still act as if the accusation has some merit? :confused:
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:facepalm: And the accusation was proven false, no? Yet you still act as if the accusation has some merit? :confused:
There you go with your facepalm again! :laugh1:
Show me where I think the accusation had merit.
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.
Oh no! It's not going to be put on YouTube? I certainly won't be able to show up and watch at a certain time. My schedule doesn't allow something like that.
Hopefully, it will be on YouTube or rumble later.
It can be hard to trust any one. For me, I trust God and my Husband.
I pray for Archbishop Vigano.
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This ^^ is wise. Even if he is sincere, and fwiw, I think he is, we gotta remember that he's been NO since the NO began, which means he still has much to learn about the Catholic faith and about tradition, he just does. Some trads are apparently looking to the good Archbishop in much the same way voters looked to Trump, we all know how that worked out, hopefully this will not be a repeat of that.
Yep. And those same Trads get really worked up when other Trads don't get in line.
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Yep. And those same Trads get really worked up when other Trads don't get in line.
(https://i.imgur.com/PeJrJ9Q.png)
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Show me where I think the accusation had merit.
You said the below:
The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy.
You/we all know that person A is innocent, and such charges were false. If you or anyone else brings up the charges, then you are giving them weight, as if they mean something. You're implying that person A was wrong, to some degree. This is disparaging to the person's innocence and reputation. And it only clouds the discussion because false charges mean nothing.
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Soubirous, I'm not looking to get into an argument with you. The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy. It was enough for the Church to take the accusation of heresy seriously.
I'm not saying we should assume and charge Vigano with heresy, but there are too many who aren't even willing to question/doubt some of the things he says or does. All the while hurling insults and names at those who do.
Who's arguing??? :cowboy: The only reason I chimed in is because when I pray that particular litany and I reach that line, I'm reminded for a split second of these ever-ongoing forum discussions (to call it that). Even that split second is too much. Yet that split second of distraction is just what the prince of this world wants as a little starter wedge, wondering whether sol justitiae is on a gradual slippery slope all the way down to the luminous mysteries. Parce nobis.
As for Vigano, if I'd rather not be distracted while praying a litany, then I certainly don't want to get into a back-and-forth about him either.
(https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?topic=72431.msg910087#msg910087)
Quote from: Soubirous (https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?topic=72431.msg910087#msg910087) 10/29/2023, 9:20:08 PM
Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus, towards the beginning of the miserere nobis set: Jesu, sol justitiae. Even I know this. OK, not "sol invictus" but "sol" no less. (Not getting into discussions about Vigano, Flynn, Bennyvacantism, etc.)
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There is a Christian tradition of likening Our Lord to the sun, so much so that some of the Church Fathers had to defend accusations of Christians/Catholics being sun worshippers. Church history is replete with the examples of where the Church took pagan customs, buildings, architecture (like obelisks) and Christianized them.
If you want to disagree with +Vigano's use of the expression, or the Christians who depicted Our Lord as Sol Invictus on their tombs, or St. Clement of Alexandria referring to Our Lord as Helios (Greek version of the "sun god"), go ahead.
But the problem is this incessant drumbeat of attacks constantly picking away everything and anything +Vigano has to say that could possibly be disagreed with.
What is the implication of constantly attacking him for using Sol Invictus imagery, eh? What's the intent behind these attacks? Implication is clearly that +Vigano is some kind of pagan / Masonic / Illuminati / Rosicrucian occultist who's "out to get" Traditional Catholicism ... in a way that remains to be demonstrated.
Every time we have anyone mention +Vigano, the same repetitive spam posts start flooding in the by the same individual(s) ... even though they've been refuted, addressed, and in some cases openly debunked.
Ah, yes, because he uses the common traditional pre-Vatican-II Italian missal translation of Amen in his writings, it's because he's a Mason using the "So mote it be" expression, which by the way is also a rip-off of Amen.
None of these regular +Vigano-slanderers have established what his agenda would be. For every conspiracy theory, there must be a cui bono, a benefit. What exactly has +Vigano accomplished for the "New Church Order" of Vatican II and the Conciliar Church? If I were a Conciliar conspirator, I would dispatch the likes of a +Schneider to keep the fence-sitting conservatives safely within the Conciliar fold, and not someone like +Vigano to lead them toward sedevacantism. I would have a +Schneider go out there and tell everyone that V2 could be salvaged with a couple small corrections, and that Bergoglio is the pope no matter what. I would not send out a +Vigano to say that Bergoglio was not the pope, and that the problem isn't just with Bergoglio but with all the Vatican II popes. I would not be having him go out there and rain on Matt's kumbaya Trad, Inc. party and love fest. That's the last thing I would do.
Maybe if +Vigano had set up some rival seminary to compete with Trad groups and was conferring doubtful priestly ordinations.
But he's done nothing of this sort.
People need to stop it with the petty vindictive uncharitable and downright slanderous attacks against Archbishop Vigano. It's a wonder he's become more Traditional as time has gone on given the kind of garbage he's been subjected to in the Trad-o-sphere. I'm glad he doesn't read CathInfo here.
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You said the below:
The fact of the matter is, despite the above, the Church still summoned him to Rome and was tried for heresy.
You/we all know that person A is innocent, and such charges were false. If you or anyone else brings up the charges, then you are giving them weight, as if they mean something. You're implying that person A was wrong, to some degree. This is disparaging to the person's innocence and reputation. And it only clouds the discussion because false charges mean nothing.
You are interpreting my words incorrectly. Speaking of false accusations. ;)
I was merely pointing out that the Church did not poo poo the heresy charges against St Bernardino. They investigated them and had a trial. Given that people immediately poo poo anything negative said about Vigano (even if it ISN'T as harsh as a charge of heresy), I felt it relevant to show that, false or not, the Church didn't do that in this case.
The reality is that, for some of you, Vigano is the sacred cow.
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I was merely pointing out that the Church did not poo poo the heresy charges against St Bernardino. They investigated them and had a trial.
But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus.
The analogy would be that a guy was charged with murder, but found 100% innocent. But you keep bringing up the fact that he was charged with murder. This is slanderous and injurious to his reputation. He is innocent and any comments which imply guilt or dilute his innocence are sinful. By bringing up the court case and trial, you are implying he is guilty, to some degree.
Why is this so difficult?
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But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus.
The analogy would be that a guy was charged with murder, but found 100% innocent. But you keep bringing up the fact that he was charged with murder. This is slanderous and injurious to his reputation. He is innocent and any comments which imply guilt or dilute his innocence are sinful. By bringing up the court case and trial, you are implying he is guilty, to some degree.
Why is this so difficult?
OK PV. You know better than the Church. :laugh1:
Meanwhile I won't poo poo some of the criticisms against your Sacred Cow (Vigano). In fact, given the reactions here regarding MP"s posts, I think I might look into some of her other points as well.
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Sol Justitiae is found in the writings of saints and in prayers but there hasn't been any evidence provided for the use of Sol Invictus.
Here Lad posted that image which is the only one found regarding this matter and which nobody knows for sure if it's even depicting Jesus at all.
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/vigano-sermon-for-feast-of-the-purification/msg870287/#msg870287
In that thread he posted a video from a group of Gnostics which has the quote from St Clement saying that Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness,
not the Sol Invictus which he claims in this thread.
A few comments down Simeon made the comment:
"I'm not by a long shot an academic, but I've been poring over Catholic books non-stop the last thirty years. NEVER have I come upon the term "sol invictus" in the writings of a Saint (to the best of my recollection.)
Conversely, I've come upon Sol Justitiae more times than I can count.
and
Lad, can you produce a bona fide example of 'sol invictus' being used in the writings of a Saint? I don't want a pictograph, I want the exact words. I cannot think of anywhere I might find such a thing."
But none has ever been supplied.
Then Meg comments:
"The video you posted a link to is more than just heretical. It's gnostic. You really want a gnostic group to make your case for you? The makers of that video call themselves 'Astrotheologists.' Here's a link that provides more info about astrotheology:
What is astrotheology? | GotQuestions.org
Q (https://www.gotquestions.org/astrotheology.html)uote from the article on astrotheology: "Astrotheology attempts to twist scripture so that Jesus Christ, instead of being God's SON, is actually God's SUN. Astrotheology ties the gospel to ancient god myths and mystery religions. The idea is that the story of Jesus Christ is simply the story of man's relationship with the sun and the seasons."
for anyone who wants to see more about this group, just click on the link in the lower left hand section of the video that Ladislaus posted, which says 'Watch on youtube'. The link to the publishing house of the video can be then be seen in the lower left corner under the video. Its called Stellar publishing house."
From what I can find, Sol Invictus is what the Statue of Liberty represents and it has broken its chain which Fr Sanborn said represents breaking free from the Catholic Church.
(https://i.imgur.com/U34X1Ox.png)
The Statue of Liberty has the seven fold rays of Sol Invictus eminating from its head which Michael Flynn referred to in his Luciferian fake prayer to St Michael.
He has the MAGA crowd repeat, "I AM Freeborn, and I shall remain Freeborn!"
Luciferians believe they are free from judgement and "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law".
By contrast, Sol Justitiae appears to represent the coming judgement of God when Jesus returns.
Depictions show Jesus with his sword and his scales of Justice.
So when praying the litany you can simply meditate on the last judgement when Jesus will return and give righteous judgement to all. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/p8mH7Kc.png)
Sol Justitiae by Albrecht Dürer
The engraving is inspired by this caption from Petrus Berchoius’ Repertorium Morale, a Biblical-moral reflective text intended for preachers, given to Dürer by his godfather:
“The Sun and Righteousness shall appear ablaze when he will judge mankind on the day of doom, and he shall be burning and grim. For, as the sun burns herbs and flowers in the summertime when he is the Lion, so shall Christ appear as a fierce and lion-like man in the heat of Judgement and shall wither the sinners.”
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Sol Justitiae is found in the writings of saints and in prayers but there hasn't been any evidence provided for the use of Sol Invictus.
Here Lad posted that image which is the only one found regarding this matter and which nobody knows for sure if it's even depicting Jesus at all.
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/vigano-sermon-for-feast-of-the-purification/msg870287/#msg870287
In that thread he posted a video from a group of Gnostics which has the quote from St Clement saying that Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness, not the Sol Invictus which he claims in this thread.
A few comments down Simeon made the comment:
"I'm not by a long shot an academic, but I've been poring over Catholic books non-stop the last thirty years. NEVER have I come upon the term "sol invictus" in the writings of a Saint (to the best of my recollection.)
Conversely, I've come upon Sol Justitiae more times than I can count.
and
Lad, can you produce a bona fide example of 'sol invictus' being used in the writings of a Saint? I don't want a pictograph, I want the exact words. I cannot think of anywhere I might find such a thing."
But none has ever been supplied.
Then Meg comments:
"The video you posted a link to is more than just heretical. It's gnostic. You really want a gnostic group to make your case for you? The makers of that video call themselves 'Astrotheologists.' Here's a link that provides more info about astrotheology:
What is astrotheology? | GotQuestions.org
Q (https://www.gotquestions.org/astrotheology.html)uote from the article on astrotheology: "Astrotheology attempts to twist scripture so that Jesus Christ, instead of being God's SON, is actually God's SUN. Astrotheology ties the gospel to ancient god myths and mystery religions. The idea is that the story of Jesus Christ is simply the story of man's relationship with the sun and the seasons."
for anyone who wants to see more about this group, just click on the link in the lower left hand section of the video that Ladislaus posted, which says 'Watch on youtube'. The link to the publishing house of the video can be then be seen in the lower left corner under the video. Its called Stellar publishing house."
I just re-discovered that thread as well.
Yep...and still not supplied despite him saying that he's cited the passage numerous times before. More of Lad's "debunking" I guess.
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OK PV. You know better than the Church. (https://www.cathinfo.com/Smileys/classic/laugh1.gif)
I have no idea the point you're trying to make. The church investigated and ruled innocent. But you still point to the investigation....why?
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I have no idea the point you're trying to make. The church investigated and ruled innocent. But you still point to the investigation....why?
As if that question wasn't answered. :sleep: I'm not getting sucked into a back and forth with you.
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Nope. Hasn’t been answered.
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Nope. Hasn’t been answered.
Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Name_of_Jesus), which was previously associated with John of Vercelli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Vercelli) and the Dominican order, Bernardino devised a symbol—IHS—the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelphs_and_Ghibellines)). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings.
Opponents thought it a dangerous innovation.
In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.
Why did the Church believe this could be a dangerous heresy?
Because the Gnostic enemies of the Church, Hermeticists, Heliocentrists, Luciferians and pagan sun worshippers,
have used sun symbolism to deceive the faithful from the earliest times.
That's the point.
It shows we have to stay on our toes with this kind of thing as was made clear by Popes Pius VI and XI.
Trump's hero, Albert Pike, accurately planned the first two world wars and here is his plan for WWIII:
(https://i.imgur.com/qbKMhbb.png)
Looks like what we are seeing right now.
The goal of Masonry is to unite the whole world in prayer to Lucifer.
How will they get "the elect" to go along with that?
They have to be deceptive.
They seem to be succeeding at ʝʊdɛօ-Christian prayer rallies and MAGA shows.
Michael Flynn tells everyone he is Catholic and says his rosary and was raised in a family with 9 kids who all had saint names and he was named after St Michael the Archangel and he wants to lead the crowd in a prayer to St Michael.
Wow....sounds great, right!
Wrong.
People have to stay on their toes and ask questions. Notice the details.
The UN plans to unite the whole world under "Christ" with this prayer:
The Great Invocation
From the point of Light within the Mind of God
Let light stream forth into the minds of men.
Let Light descend on Earth.
From the point of Love within the Heart of God
Let love stream forth into the hearts of men.
May Christ* return to Earth.
From the centre where the Will of God is known
Let purpose guide the little wills of men –
The purpose which the Masters know and serve.
From the centre which we call the race of men
Let the Plan of Love and Light work out
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.
Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.
https://www.lucistrust.org/the_great_invocation
Lucis Trust was originally named Lucifer Publishing. Their god is Lucifer.
How many will be deceived when they unite the world under "Christ the King" with this prayer to Lucifer?
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Ah, OK, so now +Vigano is a gnostic pagan sun-worshipping Luciferian ... got it.
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At most, Flynn is a plagiarist.
Regarding Vigano, I personally see nothing wrong with attributing the words Sol Invictus to our Lord.
Our Lord is the true light; John 1:9, Sol Verus
Our Lord is the Sun of Justice; Malachias 4:2, Sol Justitiae
Our Lord is never conquered; He has conquered the devil; Augustine*; Sol Invictus
*Exposition on Psalm 149, St. Augusitne, paragraph 6
newadvent.org/fathers/1801149.htm
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In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.
And he was declared innocent.
So everytime you mention he was charged with heresy, but you DON'T mention he was found innocent, you are slandering a dead man's reputation. Totally sinful.
But you probably won't stop, so carry on...
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At most, Flynn is a plagiarist.
Regarding Vigano, I personally see nothing wrong with attributing the words Sol Invictus to our Lord.
Our Lord is the true light; John 1:9, Sol Verus
Our Lord is the Sun of Justice; Malachias 4:2, Sol Justitiae
Our Lord is never conquered; He has conquered the devil; Augustine*; Sol Invictus
*Exposition on Psalm 149, St. Augusitne, paragraph 6
newadvent.org/fathers/1801149.htm
So Flynn plagarized a Luciferian New Age prayer
and led the crowd to recite it with him
and that's somehow okay?
The thing is, most all of the doctors and speakers at the MAGA events have been exposed to be Luciferian New Agers with ties to the
Lucis Trust (Lucifer Publishing) United Nations:
TRUMP'S NEW AGE DOCTOR NETWORK / HUGO TALKS
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ndnP6qPkyGCi/
The link you provided for St Augustine's quote doesn't mention
Sol Invictus
anywhere.
Here are some nice folks celebrating Sol Invictus:
Satanic Temple members install display inside Capitol rotunda
State Journal-Register
(https://i.imgur.com/44r0ukg.jpg)
For a third year, the Satanic Temple returned to the Illinois State Capitol Monday with an art installation to celebrate the “satanic holiday” of Sol Invictus.
This year’s display features the “satanic deity” Baphomet, depicted as a swaddling babe. It was designed by Albuquerque-based horror artist Chris P. Andres.
The satanic display was installed next to the Christian nativity scene holiday display inside the Capitol rotunda.
"This year's tradition marks a greater urgency in the Baphomet's message of harmony and reconciliation," noted The Satanic Temple's Director of Campaign Operations Erin Helian in a weekend press release.
Minister Adam with the Satanic Temple sets up a barrier around the “satanic deity” Baphomet, depicted as a swaddling babe, to celebrate the “satanic holiday” of Sol Invictus as the display is installed next the Nativity scene in the holiday display inside the rotunda of the Illinois State Capitol in Springfield, Ill., Monday, December 20, 2021. As the group installed the display, the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property recited the Rosary next to the Nativity scene.
The group’s displays have courted controversy, particularly from the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois and its head, Bishop Thomas Paprocki. He recently oversaw the installation of the nativity scene in the Capitol rotunda. At the event, Paprocki said satanic displays "should have no place in this Capitol or any other place."
Similar:Satanic Temple to install Sol Invictus holiday display at state Capitol rotunda (https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/state/2021/12/18/satanic-temple-install-holiday-display-illinois-state-capitol/8952418002/)
As Satanic Temple members installed the display Monday, the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property recited the rosary next to the Nativity scene.
Since 2018, The Satanic Temple has installed displays at the state Capitol. In 2019, it installed “Knowledge is the Greatest Gift.” It depicted the forearm of Eve from the biblical story of the Garden of Eden alongside an apple and snake. The group did not have an installation last year because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
(https://www.facebook.com/dialog/share?display=popup&app_id=592720908300998&href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sj-r.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2021%2F12%2F20%2Fsatanic-temple-members-set-sol-invictus-scene-capitol-rotunda-group-recites-rosary%2F8968611002%2F) (http://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sj-r.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2021%2F12%2F20%2Fsatanic-temple-members-set-sol-invictus-scene-capitol-rotunda-group-recites-rosary%2F8968611002%2F&text=Satanic Temple members install display inside Capitol)
Awww...that's a sweet way to commemorate
SOL INVICTUS!
(https://i.imgur.com/L3Zb3i7.jpg)
So it appears that when one invokes the term
Sol Invictus
there are some people out there who might
get the wrong idea.
Perhaps, it's one of those thingys that are best to avoid. ;)
-
Sol Invictus and “The Great Invocation”? It’s not looking good.
:incense:
-
St. Augustine
Exposition on Psalm 40
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801040.htm
Lo, in the sacrifice of Christ, I recognise the Lamb that was slain! What of the unleavened bread? "Therefore," says he, "let us keep the feast; not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of wickedness" (he shows what is meant by "old;" it is "stale" flour; it is sour), "but in the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." 1 Corinthians 5:8 They have continued in the shade; they cannot abide the Sun of Glory. We are already in the light of day. We have "the Body" of Christ, we have the Blood of Christ. If we have a new life, let us "sing a new song, even a hymn unto our God." "Burnt offerings for sin You did not desire. Then said I, Lo, I come!"
Sol Gloriae
St. Clement of Alexandria
Exhortation to the Heathen (Chapter 9)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/020809.htm
Christ, the Sun of the Resurrection, He who was born before the morning star, and with His beams bestows life.
Sol Resurrectionis
Hilary of Poitiers
On the Trinity (Book II)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/330202.htm
35.
[ . . . ]
That Gift, which is in Christ, is One, yet offered, and offered fully, to all; denied to none, and given to each according to the measure of his willingness to receive; its stores the richer, the more earnest the desire to earn them. This gift is with us unto the end of the world, the solace of our waiting, the assurance, by the favours which He bestows, of the hope that shall be ours, the light of our minds, the sun of our souls.
Sol animarum nostrarum
Methodius
Banquet of the Ten Virgins (Discourse 6)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062306.htm
Chapter 4
[ . . .]
For he says, Leviticus 24:3 " they shall burn it until the morning," that is, until the coming of Christ. But the Sun of chastity and of righteousness having arisen, there is no need of other light.
Sol Castitatis et Iustitiae
St. Gregory the Great
Pastoral Rule (Book III)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/36013.htm
The sluggard ploughs not by reason of the cold, when he is afraid of small evils that are against him, and leaves undone things of the greatest importance. Further it is well said, He shall beg in summer, and it shall not be given unto him. For whoever toils not now in good works will beg in summer and receive nothing, because, when the burning sun of judgment shall appear, he will then sue in vain for entrance into the kingdom.
Ardenti Sol Iudicii
St. Augustine
Exposition on Psalm 58 (Psalm 57)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801058.htm
13. There has fallen upon them fire, and they have not seen the sun. You see in what manner he speaks of a certain punishment of darkening. Fire has fallen upon them, fire of pride, a smoky fire, fire of lust, fire of wrath. How great a fire is it? He upon whom it shall have fallen, shall not see the sun. Therefore has it been said, Let not the sun go down upon your wrath. Ephesians 4:26
Therefore, brethren, fire of evil lust fear ye, if you will not melt like wax, and to perish from the face of God. For there falls upon you that fire, and the sun you shall not see.
What sun? Not that which together with you see both beasts and insects, and good men and evil men: because He makes His sun to rise upon good men and evil men. Matthew 5:45
But there is another sun, whereof those men are to speak, And the sun has not risen to us, passed away are all those things as it were a shadow.
Therefore we have strayed from the way of truth, and the light of righteousness has not shone to us, and the sun has not risen to us. Wisdom 5:6 ...
St. Augustine: But there is another sun, whereof those men are to speak
Psalm 57:9 Like wax that melteth they shall be taken away: fire hath fallen on them, and they shall not see the sun.
Wisdom 5:6 Therefore we have erred from the way of truth, and the light of justice hath not shined unto us, and the sun of understanding hath not risen upon us.
Sol Intelligentiae
-
St. Augustine
Exposition on Psalm 40
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801040.htm
Sol Gloriae
St. Clement of Alexandria
Exhortation to the Heathen (Chapter 9)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/020809.htm
Sol Resurrectionis
Hilary of Poitiers
On the Trinity (Book II)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/330202.htm
Sol animarum nostrarum
Methodius
Banquet of the Ten Virgins (Discourse 6)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/062306.htm
Sol Castitatis et Iustitiae
St. Gregory the Great
Pastoral Rule (Book III)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/36013.htm
Ardenti Sol Iudicii
St. Augustine
Exposition on Psalm 58 (Psalm 57)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801058.htm
St. Augustine: But there is another sun, whereof those men are to speak
Sol Intelligentiae
Thanks, Trad123.
I don't know how long you have followed this topic,
but what people have been requesting for 10 months now
is a quote referring to
Sol Invictus.
-
Thanks, Trad123.
I don't know how long you have followed this topic,
but what people have been requesting for 10 months now
is a quote referring to Sol Invictus.
The devil has no right to that title, having been defeated.
Sol Invictus is a fitting title for our Lord.
-
The devil has no right to that title, having been defeated.
Sol Invictus is a fitting title for our Lord.
Yes, the devil has been defeated,
but he is prideful and continues to see himself as unconquered
and he convinces his followers that he is unconquered
and that they are unconquered
by justice.
If Sol Invictus is a fitting title for
Our Lord, Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Holy Trinity
then there should be at least one
record of saints or approved prayers
by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
which invokes Him under that title.
No, on the contrary,
there are numerous examples of Freemason Lodges
and Wiccans
and Satanic Temples
and Luciferians
who invoke that title as their god.
-
If Sol Invictus is a fitting title for Our Lord, Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Holy Trinity then there should be at least one record of saints or approved prayers by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which invokes Him under that title.
Is anyone here arguing for the use of these titles in the use of public litanies, or the like?
There is no scandal in Vigano's use of the title in a speech.
Adding to that, I have no doubt it is lawful to come up with litanies for private use.
Sol Gloriae, grant us a crown of glory in Heaven.
Sol Resurrectionis, grant us incorruptibility.
Sol Intelligentiae, grant us wisdom.
Sol Castitatis et Iustitiae, grant us purity of heart, so that we may see the face of God.
Sol animarum nostrarum, have mercy on us!
Ardenti Sol Iudicii, spare us o Lord!
Sol Invictus, grant us the grace of final perseverance!
-
I have no doubt it is lawful to come up with litanies for private use.
Sol Invictus, grant us the grace of final perseverance!
Well, you have free will and can create your own innovations
but the Church has never approved that title or that prayer.
There are many, many beautiful titles for Our Lord Jesus Christ
but sure, pick one you like better.
Just keep in mind that members of the Satanic Church may get the idea that you are
joining them in prayer:
(https://i.imgur.com/UZQCX1L.png)
from the Satanic Temple Ireland:
(https://i.imgur.com/9mZNFWp.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/W46htjk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4ARKZkc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Xh7IXmX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ufU6FZ4.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BM1lJ6S.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/PRe6Vef.png)
-
Did St Clement actually call Jesus the Sol Invictus or just say He drove His chariot across the sky?
In any case, here is the ONE depiction that can be found.
It has the 7 Fold Rays emanating from it.
Michael Flynn refers to those 7 Fold Rays in his prayer to Lucifer I posted.
(https://i.imgur.com/ou8ALSP.png)
St. Clement of Alexandria
Exhortation to the Heathen (Chapter 11)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/020811.htm
For the Sun of Righteousness, who drives His chariot over all, pervades equally all humanity, like His Father, who makes His sun to rise on all men, and distils on them the dew of the truth. He has changed sunset into sunrise, and through the cross brought death to life; and having wrenched man from destruction, He has raised him to the skies, transplanting mortality into immortality, and translating earth to heaven [ . . .]
The Mystical City of God, Volume 1
Venerable Mary of Agreda
Chapter XIII: OF THE SEVEN GIFTS OF THE HOLY GHOST AND HOW THE MOST HOLY MARY MADE USE OF THEM.
Isaias says the Holy Ghost rested upon Christ our Lord (Is. 11, 2), enumerating seven graces, which commonly are called gifts of the Holy Ghost, namely: the spirit of wisdom and intellect, the spirit of counsel and fortitude, the spirit of science and piety, and the fear of God. These gifts were in the most holy soul of Christ, overflowing from the Divinity to which it was hypostatically united, just as the water is in the fountain, flowing from it and communicating itself to other places.
Isaiah 11: 1-3
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of his root. 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him: the spirit of wisdom, and of understanding, the spirit of counsel, and of fortitude, the spirit of knowledge, and of godliness. 3 And he shall be filled with the spirit of the fear of the Lord.
The Mystical City of God, Volume II
Venerable Mary of Agreda
Chapter II
SAINT JOHN THE EVANGELIST, IN CHAPTER THE TWENTY· FIRST OF THE APOCALYPSE, GIVES A LITERAL DESCRIPTION OF HIS VISION OF THE MOST HOLY MARY OUR LADY AS SHE DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN.
10. It befitted the exalted dignity of saint John as being appointed the son of most holy Mary by Jesus on the Cross, that he should be the secretary of the ineffable sacraments and mysteries of the great Queen, which were kept concealed from other persons. For this reason many of her mysteries were revealed to him before her excursion into heaven, and he was made an eye-witness of the hidden mysteries on the day of the Ascension, when this sacred Eagle saw the divine Sun, Christ, ascend in seven-fold light, as Isaias said, and with it, the moon Mary shining as the sun, on account of her likeness to Christ.
Sol Divinus
Isaiah 30:26
26 And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days: in the day when the Lord shall bind up the wound of his people, and shall heal the stroke of their wound.
St. Thomas Aquinas
Catena Aurea on Luke
Chapter 21, Lecture 6
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~CaLuke.C21.L6.18
AMBROSE
While many also fall away from religion, clear faith will be obscured by the cloud of unbelief, for to me that Sun of righteousness is either diminished or increased according to my faith; and as the moon in its monthly wanings, or when it is opposite the sun by the interposition of the earth, suffers eclipse, so also the holy Church when the sins of the flesh oppose the heavenly light, cannot borrow the brightness of divine light from Christ’s rays. For in persecutions, the love of this world generally shuts out the light of the divine Sun; the stars also fall, that is, men who shine in glory fall when the bitterness of persecution waxes sharp and prevails. And this must be until the multitude of the Church be gathered in, for thus are the good tried and the weak made manifest.
Sol Divinus
St. Ambrose
On the Death of Satyrus (Book II)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34032.htm
116. And so although all are raised again in a moment, yet all are raised in the order of their merits. And therefore they rise first, who yielding early to the impulses of devotion, and as it were going forth before the rising dawn of faith, received the rays of the eternal Sun.
Sol Aeternus
The Fathers of the Church: A New Translation
Saint Ambrose: Letters
68. To Clementainus*
*An undated letter, attributed to Irenaeus in the manuscripts, although its contents connect it with the following letter to Clementianus.
Pages 407-8
https://archive.org/details/saintambroselett0000unse/page/406/mode/2up
The Jєωιѕн people are forbidden to carry wood, that is, such things as are consumed by fire. One who keeps out of the sun has shade. The Sun of Justice does not allow the shade to hinder you; pouring forth the full light of His grace He says to you: ‘Go thy way, and from now on sin no more.’10 The imitator of that everlasting Sun says: ‘But if anyone builds upon this foundation, gold, silver, and precious stones, wood, hay, straw — the work of each will be made manifest, for the day of the Lord will declare it, since the day is to be revealed in fire. The fire will assay the quality of everyone’s work.’* 11 And so let us build upon Christ (for Christ is our foundation) that which is not burned but improved. Gold is improved by fire, so is silver improved.
Sol Aeternus
A Manual of Catholic Theology: Based on Dogmatik (Complete in Two Volumes)
Matthias Joseph Scheeben
Book II. God
Chapter V. Divine Life
§ 79.—The Divine Knowledge in general.
[ . . . ]
II. God is His knowledge: in Him there is no real distinction between the faculty and the act of knowing, nor between these two and their object. Even when His knowledge extends to things outside Him, the adequate reason for such extension of the Divine knowledge is in God Himself; nothing external affects, moves, determines or influences it in any way.
This is of faith, because it is evidently contained in the simplicity and independence of God, and because it is formally expressed in the propositions:
God is Wisdom, God is Light. As God is the Light of all other spirits ("the light which enlighteneth every man," John i.), so also is He Himself the sun, in the light of which He sees all things (Ecclus. xlii. 16).
-
Author unknown
De solstitiis et aequinoctiis
4th century
On the Solstices and the Equinoxes: of the conception and nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ and of John the Baptist
https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/De-Solstitiis-et-Aequinoctiis-Image-2022.pdf
But the Lord was born on 25th December in the winter. This is when the ripe olives are pressed to produce ointment or crisma; this is the season when <the field is sown with various seeds,> and when bleating lambs are born; this is when the vines are pruned with sickles so that they produce the sweet juice which made the <holy apostles> drunk. I am the vine and my Father is the gardener. Every branch which does not bear fruit will be cut off and thrown in the fire.80
[The pagans] also call it ‘Birthday of the Invictus’.81
But who is Invictus if not our Lord, who suffered death and then conquered it?
Or when they call it ‘Birthday of the Sun’ – well, Christ is the sun of righteousness that the prophet Malachi spoke of:
The sun of righteousness shall arise for all you who fear his name; salvation is in his wings.82
80 Jn. 15:1-2.
81 The Chronography of 354, in the calendar labels 25th December “Natalis Invicti”, and specifies that chariot races are held, as for other holidays. This is usually assumed to indicate a festival of the Late Roman state sun god, Sol Invictus.
82 Mal. 4:2.
The Mystical City of God: Volume 2
Venerable Mary of Agreda
Chapter IX: THE JOURNEY OF MOST HOLY MARY FROM NAZARETH TO BETHLEHEM IN THE COMPANY OF THE HOLY SPOUSE JOSEPH AND OF THE HOLY GUARDIAN ANGELS.
462. Thus variously and wonderfully assisted, our travelers arrived at the town of Bethlehem at four o’clock of the fifth day, a Saturday. As it was at the time of the winter solstice, the sun was already sinking and the night was falling. They entered the town, and wandered through many streets in search of a lodging-house or inn for staying over night. They knocked at the doors of their acquaintances and nearer family relations; but they were admitted nowhere and in many places they met with harsh words and insults.
Ibid.
Chapter X: CHRIST OUR SAVIOR IS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY IN BETHLEHEM, JUDA.
468. The palace which the supreme King of kings and the Lord of lords had chosen for entertaining his eternal and incarnate Son in this world was a most poor and insignificant hut or cave, to which most holy Mary and Joseph betook themselves after they had been denied all hospitality and the most ordinary kindness by their fellow-men, as I have described in the foregoing chapter. This place was held in such contempt that though the town of Bethlehem was full of strangers in want of night shelter, none would demean or degrade himself so far as to make use of it for a lodging; for there was none who deemed it suitable or desirable for such a purpose, except the Teachers of humility and poverty, Christ our Savior and his purest Mother. On this account the wisdom of the eternal Father had reserved it for Them, consecrating it in all its bareness, loneliness and poverty as the first temple of light (Malachy 4, 2, Ps. Ill, 4) and as the house of the true Sun of justice, which was to arise for the upright of heart from the resplendent Aurora Mary, turning the night of sin into the daylight of grace.
-
And by "God", Flynn means Lucifer:
Here he leads the unsuspecting crowd in a prayer to Lucifer!!!
2min 20sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/
(https://www.bitchute.com/video/v1m94hzC06L2/)Also, the antivaxx doctors who attend these rallies who pretend to be Christian have been exposed as Luciferian New Agers with ties to the UN.
Here is a quote from Trump's hero, Albert Pike about what they really mean when they say "god":
(https://i.imgur.com/nVROhtg.png)
Of all the statues that were toppled during Trump's term he only requested Congress replace one:
Albert Pike
So yes, in consideration of all of this, I have to question why Vigano on two occasions referred to
Our Lord Jesus Christ
as the Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun)
which is the term used by Freemasons, Wiccans, and other Luciferians for Lucifer!
Luciferians celebrate the Sol Invictus Day:
THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST
In Luciferian circles,. Lucifer is the Sol Invictus, in direct competition to the Son of GOD, Jesus. Christ. ~The Church Age. BABYLONIA. MEDO-PERSIA. GRECIA.
Wishing Lucifer/Sol Invictus a happy Birthday on this ... - Reddit
Dec 21, 2021 — The world has been covered in darkness but starting today, we will see the return of Sol Invictus, Lucifer, the Bringer of Light, ...
How to celebrate Sol Invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/qji5bo/how_to_celebrate_sol_invictus/)
Oct 31, 2021
Sol invictus? : r/SatanicTemple_Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/SatanicTemple_Reddit/comments/k46xqb/sol_invictus/)
Nov 30, 2020
Lucifer and Sol Invictus : r/LuciferianWitchcraft - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/LuciferianWitchcraft/comments/e2bhku/lucifer_and_sol_invictus/)
Nov 27, 2019
Happy Sol Invictus! : r/Satan - Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Satan/comments/rn2lb8/happy_sol_invictus/)
Dec 23, 2021
More results from www.reddit.com (https://www.google.com/search?q=sol+invictus+lucifer+site:www.reddit.com&rlz=1CALAYK_enUS994US994&sxsrf=ALiCzsaSJe8fcVX_oLexNTeNv55c-q8DpQ:1666304520317&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5m5WI7O_6AhXfnGoFHYWdBPMQrQIoBHoECB0QBQ)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.6&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ-oAfwo8cLkH-OgjMl3EXTMtlVAZOB73h1UTK9ax6cw0AihQ9QcXwr-Cr99Vrz8ywN0XPwsFvVRwhJTg3X5rnVlwRvLc7wpTN-afYP1m8XrUqsy0pZdZ10_ms4&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10ob3o8)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.7&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9ZkEgmuPdIOTpqoZ3VhhU-1Wj59hoiBxxxTIZTyDh8uiOagqKjTwHK5jhY4D2hEeS_iTUzV1a6ghY7tkP9iNahE06QGXXG-6XURXh0M3MWCMsoMEr_Ft1YoYE&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10rtyk11)
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=9c53f93926&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-a:r7618492103162076291&th=188c23cc72fadb17&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8o5KVvtNetykeNXwVUpvCGmF0tOcJDCdFE-tdD5drSXCbcCUOsod0SoqA4I7PdtwHG8Lt714_uNYUXAgQeGzvE-dQUzgohHq2vE_C3Ln_NxhoahgcSvccO6VI&disp=emb&realattid=ii_li10p52w10)
(https://i.imgur.com/BA0zpv4.png)
Here is a photo of a lodge named Sol Invictus:
(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/akgAR0a6rFXJqvnFIgn7PuoWc7XDghJqyz4Gna99vc6M-uKLn0HOj_eSblcLGdhwnycx8tFALUfJRyzhJg1DWaXuKoDwNXe5MqJaB3gloxLfOd18hNsgG3xaRtE=s0-d-e1-ft#https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1109599044316344321/iW5cWs_A_x96.png)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)Grand Lodge of Royal Art Study
(https://twitter.com/mlsarGrandLodge)@mlsarGrandLodge
Grand Lodge: the bilingual lodge Sol Invictus, No 13 has two new members.
#Freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყToday?src=hashtag_click) #FreemasonFriday (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreemasonFriday?src=hashtag_click) #Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ?src=hashtag_click) #freemasons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemasons?src=hashtag_click) #freemason (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freemason?src=hashtag_click) #masoniclodges (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoniclodges?src=hashtag_click) #masonic (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masonic?src=hashtag_click) #masons (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masons?src=hashtag_click) #scottishrite (https://twitter.com/hashtag/scottishrite?src=hashtag_click) #francmasoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/francmasoneria?src=hashtag_click) #masoneria (https://twitter.com/hashtag/masoneria?src=hashtag_click)
(https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fnqopO199QZpxkTji3s0Ofy4yJKndyADoSq1htpGqetwxmIYJmgp68extGvzlEIGGY4=s0-d-e1-ft#https://i.imgur.com/qVxnc6i.jpg)
https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506 (https://twitter.com/mlsargrandlodge/status/1057191457868693506)
So why on earth would Vigano want to use a phrase with such associations???
And no it is not slander to ask these questions. It is our duty:
Pope Pius VI, Bull “Auctorem fidei," August 28, 1794: “[The Ancient Doctors] knew the capacity of innovators in the art of deception. In order not to shock the ears of Catholics, they sought to hide the subtleties… by the use of seemingly innocuous words such as would allow them to insinuate error into souls in the most gentle manner. Once the truth had been compromised, they could, by means of slight changes or additions in phraseology, distort the confession of the faith which is necessary for our salvation, and lead the faithful by subtle errors to their eternal damnation.”
Pope Pius VI points out that camouflaging the heresies in statements that are ambiguous or seemingly conservative or contradictory was the tactic of the heretic Nestorius, and that Catholics cannot allow heretics to get away with this or deceive them by it. They must hold such heretics to their heresies regardless:
Quote
Heretics have always used ambiguity and deception to insinuate their heresies and make them seem not quite as bad. In fact, the more deceptive the heretic is usually equates to how successful he is for the Devil. The heretic Arius effectively spread his denial of the Divinity of Christ because he impressed people with his appearance of ascetism and devotion.
Quote
Pope Pius VI concludes his point by giving Catholics instructions on how to deal with such deception or ambiguity among the writings of heretics:
Quote
Pope Pius VI teaches us that if someone veils a heresy in ambiguity, a Catholic must hold him to the heretical meaning and denounce the heretical meaning which is camouflaged in ambiguity. But this is only common sense: if a man says that he is against abortion, but repeatedly votes in favor of it, he is a supporter of abortion and a heretic. The fact that he sometimes claims to hold Church teaching against abortion means nothing.
https:// vatican catholic.com /anti-pope-benedict-xvi/
(https://i.imgur.com/BWSQYnP.png)
Miser, can you give the reference for the two occasions when Vigano mentioned Sol Invictus? Yes, I do have a problem with that term being use for Our Lord since no one seems to have a reference for that name being used in the past.
I completely understand that the Sun has been used to represent Our Lord, but you are making a compelling case.
Just so I don’t get unjustly attacked by certain members of this forum, I want to make it clear that I’m still giving Vigano the benefit of the doubt at this point.
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If we read further, it appears that he was brought to Rome on suspect of heresy:
Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Name_of_Jesus), which was previously associated with John of Vercelli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Vercelli) and the Dominican order, Bernardino devised a symbol—IHS—the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelphs_and_Ghibellines)). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings. Opponents thought it a dangerous innovation. In 1426, Bernardino was summoned to Rome to stand trial on charges of heresy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy) himself for his promotion of this devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.
He was acquitted, but it certainly should be noted that this was not something the Church poo-pooed.
Just quoting this earlier post of mine (the first one on the topic of St Bernandino) to show that Pax Vobis is wrong when he states that I don't admit that he was innocent and that I "slander" him.
In addition, it also explains, AGAIN, that my point in bringing his trial for heresy up was to show that the Church didn't poo poo the original allegations (unlike how some here outright poo poo any allegations/criticisms about Vigano).
In a later post, PV made it clear that he thought the Church was wrong to poo poo them because the allegations were bogus (see post #93 "But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus."). He apparently knows better than the Church.
I trust that the Church proceeded as it should have, and I trust that the Saint was rightly found innocent by the Church. PV criticizes the Church here, but others here can't criticize Vigano. The hypocrisy is more than glaring.
This post should make my position on St Bernardino clear. It also should make it clear why I brought up his trial in the first place.
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Miser, can you give the reference for the two occasions when Vigano mentioned Sol Invictus? Yes, I do have a problem with that term being use for Our Lord since no one seems to have a reference for that name being used in the past.
I completely understand that the Sun has been used to represent Our Lord, but you are making a compelling case.
Just so I don’t get unjustly attacked by certain members of this forum, I want to make it clear that I’m still giving Vigano the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Well, it's worth a shot. It still may not help.
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Quote
But the Lord was born on 25th December in the winter. This is when the ripe olives are pressed to produce ointment or crisma; this is the season when <the field is sown with various seeds,> and when bleating lambs are born; this is when the vines are pruned with sickles so that they produce the sweet juice which made the <holy apostles> drunk. I am the vine and my Father is the gardener. Every branch which does not bear fruit will be cut off and thrown in the fire.80
[The pagans] also call it ‘Birthday of the Invictus’.81
But who is Invictus if not our Lord, who suffered death and then conquered it?
Or when they call it ‘Birthday of the Sun’ – well, Christ is the sun of righteousness that the prophet Malachi spoke of:
The sun of righteousness shall arise for all you who fear his name; salvation is in his wings.82
Why did you capitalize "Invictus"? The original in the link does not capitalize it. The quote is showing that Our Lord is unconquered, but it is not saying that he is to be called "Sol Invictus".
Besides, according to the link, the author is "anonymous", so it holds no weight.
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Just quoting this earlier post of mine (the first one on the topic of St Bernandino) to show that Pax Vobis is wrong when he states that I don't admit that he was innocent and that I "slander" him.
In addition, it also explains, AGAIN, that my point in bringing his trial for heresy up was to show that the Church didn't poo poo the original allegations (unlike how some here outright poo poo any allegations/criticisms about Vigano).
In a later post, PV made it clear that he thought the Church was wrong to poo poo them because the allegations were bogus (see post #93 "But you already know the outcome was innocent. So, in hindsight, the Church SHOULD HAVE poo poo'ed the charges. Because they were bogus."). He apparently knows better than the Church.
I trust that the Church proceeded as it should have, and I trust that the Saint was rightly found innocent by the Church. PV criticizes the Church here, but others here can't criticize Vigano. The hypocrisy is more than glaring.
This post should make my position on St Bernardino clear. It also should make it clear why I brought up his trial in the first place.
The Church was correct to investigate because the facts were unknown (at the time). But we already have the Church's findings, which prove innocence, so it is slanderous and sinful to bring up the FALSE accusations (which the Church determined were false), after the fact.
Just like it is wrong to bring up a murder charge for someone who was later declared innocent.
I'm not criticizing the Church, I'm criticizing YOU, because you don't understand basic charity, nor the difference between "charges" and "guilt".
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Just like it is wrong to bring up a murder charge for someone who was later declared innocent.
What about OJ?
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What about OJ?
You're wasting your breath. And to be fair, OJ is definitely not analogous to a saint of the Church and a Church trial is not analogous to our secular trials.
Having said that, according to PV you can NEVER bring up the fact that someone was brought up on allegations EVEN IF you also mention they were found not guilty. And if you do, you are uncharitable. ::)
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What about OJ?
Please provide beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence that he killed someone. If not, then you can't smear his name. That's catholic justice.
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according to PV you can NEVER bring up the fact that someone was brought up on allegations EVEN IF you also mention they were found not guilty. And if you do, you are uncharitable.
It isn't according to me, it's according to 1) common sense and 2) basic legal and moral rules.
If you already know that the court system found someone innocent, then *logically* you know the allegations were FALSE. Ergo, to bring up the allegations on their own is to imply/spread false statements or facts. To spread false statements/facts, knowing they are false, is a sin. It's also sinful in that it damages a person's reputation.
p.s. You only mentioned he was not guilty in 1 post. A few of your other posts, you simply mentioned the allegations.
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What about OJ?
Please provide beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence that he killed someone. If not, then you can't smear his name. That's catholic justice.
For the sake of accuracy, OJ was actually found guilty in a civil trial:
Rufo v. Simpson (2001)
Annotate this Case (https://law.justia.com/annotations/)
[No. B112612. Second Dist., Div. Two. Jan. 26, 2001.]
SHARON RUFO et al., Plaintiffs and Respondents, v. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, Defendant and Appellant.
(Superior Court of Los Angeles County, Nos. SC031947, SC036340 and SC036876, Hiroshi Fujisaki, Judge.)
(Opinion by Vogel (C. S.), P. J., with Epstein and Hastings, JJ., concurring.)
COUNSEL
Baker, Silberberg & Keener, Robert C. Baker and Daniel Patrick Leonard for Defendant and Appellant.
Hornberger, Ghazarians & Brewer and Michael A. Brewer for Plaintiff and Respondent Sharon Rufo.
Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp, Thomas P. Lambert, Peter B. Gelblum, Yvette Molinaro, Jeffrey D. Goldman; O'Melveny & Myers and Daniel M. Petrocelli for Plaintiff and Respondent Fredric Goldman.
Edward J. Horowitz and John Quinlan Kelly for Plaintiff and Respondent Louis H. Brown. [86 Cal. App. 4th 581]
OPINION
VOGEL (C. S.), P. J.-
Introduction
These consolidated civil actions arise from the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Lyle Goldman. A jury found that defendant Orenthal James (O.J.) Simpson committed these homicides willfully and wrongfully,...
...
In a prior criminal trial, Simpson was acquitted of the murders of Nicole and Ronald. In the present civil trial, the jury concluded that Simpson killed Nicole and Ronald. Simpson does not contend on appeal that the evidence is legally insufficient to support the jury's verdict.
https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/86/573.html
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For the sake of accuracy, OJ was actually found guilty in a civil trial:
Good point. Although the inclusion of OJ is totally off-topic. In this case, we can trust the Church's decision to declare Bernardino innocent. And the allegations should never be mentioned again, since they were false.
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Miser, can you give the reference for the two occasions when Vigano mentioned Sol Invictus? Yes, I do have a problem with that term being use for Our Lord since no one seems to have a reference for that name being used in the past.
I completely understand that the Sun has been used to represent Our Lord, but you are making a compelling case.
Just so I don’t get unjustly attacked by certain members of this forum, I want to make it clear that I’m still giving Vigano the benefit of the doubt at this point.
In the Martyrology on Christmas Eve, we heard sung the announcement of the Birth of the Savior secundum carnem (“according to the flesh”) placed in history with a multiplicity of precise and detailed chronological references.
The Toto orbe in pace composito (“entire world having been brought together in peace”) that the cantor solemnly pronounces shortly before raising the tone of his voice to mark the historical reality of the salvific event of Christ’s Birth refers to the triple triumph of Augustus, author and peacemaker of the Roman Empire.
A human and pagan triumph, certainly; but which was intended to prepare the eternal triumph of the Rex pacificus (“the King of Peace”), the immortal Emperor, the unconquered Sun.
https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-15-2023-thur-jan-12-vigano/
And this is true also for the Advent liturgy: Regem venturum Dominum, venite adoremus, the singing of the first prayer, intoned in the middle of the night in anticipation of the rising of the true Unconquered Sun.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/abp-vigano-in-this-time-of-crisis-we-must-use-advent-to-prepare-for-the-trials-that-lie-ahead/
As the thousands of people who met in Fatima on October 13, one hundred and five years ago were able to recognize, we must see in that shining sun the unconquered Sun, Our Lord Jesus Christ, center of the cosmos created by Him omnia per ipsum facta sunt, et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est (Jn 1:3), and even more the center of the Redemption that sets the axis of the Earth to rotate around the Cross: stat Crux, dum volvitur orbis.
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/msgr-vigano's-shotgun-blast/
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Good point. Although the inclusion of OJ is totally off-topic. In this case, we can trust the Church's decision to declare Bernardino innocent. And the allegations should never be mentioned again, since they were false.
It's not about whether St Clement was found innocent or not.
This isn't about St Clement or his character.
This is about the dangers of Sun imagery,
being used for Our Lord Jesus.
(specifically the title Unconquered Sun/Sol Invictus)
The Church saw that as a possible danger and something worth investigating.
Just like murder is worth investigating,
using Sun imagery for Our Lord is worth investigating.
So that is what we are doing.
We are asking questions and investigating.
That is not a sin.
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The Church saw that as a possible danger and something worth investigating.
Just like murder is worth investigating,
using Sun imagery for Our Lord is worth investigating.
:facepalm: It's already been investigated. Bernardino was found innocent. So there's no "danger". Duh?
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St. Clement of Alexandria
Exhortation to the Heathen (Chapter 11)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/020811.htm
The Mystical City of God, Volume 1
Venerable Mary of Agreda
Isaiah 11: 1-3
The Mystical City of God, Volume II
Venerable Mary of Agreda
Sol Divinus
Isaiah 30:26
St. Thomas Aquinas
Catena Aurea on Luke
Chapter 21, Lecture 6
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~CaLuke.C21.L6.18
Sol Divinus
St. Ambrose
On the Death of Satyrus (Book II)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/34032.htm
Sol Aeternus
The Fathers of the Church: A New Translation
Saint Ambrose: Letters
68. To Clementainus*
*An undated letter, attributed to Irenaeus in the manuscripts, although its contents connect it with the following letter to Clementianus.
Pages 407-8
https://archive.org/details/saintambroselett0000unse/page/406/mode/2up
Sol Aeternus
A Manual of Catholic Theology: Based on Dogmatik (Complete in Two Volumes)
Matthias Joseph Scheeben
Book II. God
Chapter V. Divine Life
Yes, exactly, the rays of the sun etc. are lovely symbols used by Catholics.
Sadly, there are Gnostic New Agers who use the same imagery.
They have a Christ, and a Jesus, and many other "Ascended Masters" including Catholic Saints such as St Francis, and St Therese, and they include Mother Theresa and Pope JPII and Padre Pio, etc.
and Mother Mary and they often promote the rosary.
Elizabeth Clare Prophet, the originator of that "prayer" Michael Flynn read, even promotes Fatima:
https://www.ascendedmastersspiritualretreats.org/archangel-raphael-mother-mary-fatima/
So when they talk about their "god" they are talking about Lucifer
and when they invoke the saints they are talking about the Ascended Masters
and when they talk about the Seven Fold Rays they are referring to
the sun god, Sol Invictus.
They use the term: I AM
because they ultimately believe we are all our own god.
It's nutty, but it's very, very real and it's the religion of the United Nations: Theosophy
(note: JPII was taught acting by a Theosophist linked to Blavatsky)
Anyway, Theosophy is just a fancy name for Luciferian
Really, Luciferianism, Satanism, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Rosicrucianism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, etc. etc.
are like Mexican food. The same ingredients are usually there (such as ecuмanism) but they are just presented in different ways.
People should research:
Ascended Masters
Master Jesus
Lucis Trust "Christ"
Sol Invictus
so they are not deceived by these people when they sound Catholic.
When you do research, do a Google Images search as well to see their symbols which are good clues to learn to look for.
Hugo Talks put out a few videos on how the MAGA rallies are connected to the Luciferian UN.
Here is one:
https://hugotalks.com/2022/04/19/trumps-new-age-doctor-network-hugo-talks/
Satan doesn't need to deceive the people on the left.
They are already deceived. They are already in the bag.
He needs to deceive the people on the "right".
He especially wants to deceive Catholics.
So we have to stay on our toes and notice the details.
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St Athanasius was excommunicated (unjustly) multiple times by Arian heretics. But you guys keep arguing that it's ok to say half-truths, such as: "Well, St Athanasius was excommunicated, so..." Except we already KNOW the excommunications were unjust/false. So to even mention what happened to St Athanasius, without mentioning he was innocent or the charges were false, is completely dishonest.
I can't believe you're defending this.
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:facepalm: It's already been investigated. Bernardino was found innocent. So there's no "danger". Duh?
I don't see any danger...
(https://i.imgur.com/j9de6su.png)
The Satanic Temple (TST) has announced the arrival of new artwork at the Illinois Capitol Rotunda in celebration of the
Satanic holiday -- Sol Invictus,
which takes place on the 25th of December.
Nope. Nothing to see here. Happy Sol Invictus Day!
Go back to sleep. :sleep:
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It's not about whether St Clement was found innocent or not.
This isn't about St Clement or his character.
This is about the dangers of Sun imagery,
being used for Our Lord Jesus.
(specifically the title Unconquered Sun/Sol Invictus)
The Church saw that as a possible danger and something worth investigating.
Just like murder is worth investigating,
using Sun imagery for Our Lord is worth investigating.
So that is what we are doing.
We are asking questions and investigating.
That is not a sin.
Don't bother. It's obvious PV is just carrying on about the references to St Bernardino in order to avoid the topic at hand: investigating real, valid concerns about Vigano (who may be innocent or not).
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Let's simply it: In the past, Catholics associated Christ with the Sun, as He is the "light of the world", just like the sun. In the past, the pagans worshiped the sun. In current times...nothing has changed. Good and bad people use the same imagery for opposite purposes. Newsflash: this has been going on for centuries.
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Don't bother. It's obvious PV is just carrying on about the references to St Bernardino in order to avoid the topic at hand: investigating real, valid concerns about Vigano (who may be innocent or not).
Yes, he is clearly committed to misunderstanding,
but it allows others who are reading to learn more about the problem.
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Let's simply it: In the past, Catholics associated Christ with the Sun, as He is the "light of the world", just like the sun. In the past, the pagans worshiped the sun. In current times...nothing has changed. Good and bad people use the same imagery for opposite purposes. Newsflash: this has been going on for centuries.
Yes, and only ONE group uses the title SOL INVICTUS
for their god
and it isn't the Catholics.
(https://i.imgur.com/EwnrxC6.png)
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Yes, and only ONE group uses the title SOL INVICTUS
Misleading, as usual. The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries. Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity. It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun. +Vigano, being Italian, is much more culturally close to the Roman Empire and such old terms aren't used in America (because we're protestant), while they are used still in Europe. So, yes, the term refers to a pagan festival, but the Church (long ago) co-opted it and perfected it. Just because it's not used in America doesn't mean it's not still used in catholic circles across the pond.
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Misleading, as usual. The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries. Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity. It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun. +Vigano, being Italian, is much more culturally close to the Roman Empire and such old terms aren't used in America (because we're protestant), while they are used still in Europe. So, yes, the term refers to a pagan festival, but the Church (long ago) co-opted it and perfected it. Just because it's not used in America doesn't mean it's not still used in catholic circles across the pond.
The point Miser is making is that in the history of the Church the name “Sol Invictus” was never used as a title for Our Lord. If you can provide a reference, her point will be moot.
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Speaking of Sol Invictus, this guy gives me the creeps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus
I knew he was a satanist, now I see he converted to being a traditional Catholic!!!!!!!!
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The point Miser is making is that in the history of the Church the name “Sol Invictus” was never used as a title for Our Lord. If you can provide a reference, her point will be moot.
.
I really don't see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Christ is referred to as the sun in the litany of the Holy Name of Jesus: "Jesus, Sun of Justice". So there can't be any problem using a metaphor of the sun to refer to Him. And then, anyone who objects to calling Christ "unconquered" can maybe explain who has ever conquered Him and when?
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.
I really don't see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Christ is referred to as the sun in the litany of the Holy Name of Jesus: "Jesus, Sun of Justice". So there can't be any problem using a metaphor of the sun to refer to Him. And then, anyone who objects to calling Christ "unconquered" can maybe explain who has ever conquered Him and when?
I think it’s just odd that Vigano used that particular title since it’s associated with satanists and that there is no historical use of that title for Jesus. I’m not saying that it’s proof enough to reject him, only that it’s one more reason to give me pause from jumping on the Vigano bandwagon.
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Speaking of Sol Invictus, this guy gives me the creeps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus
I knew he was a satanist, now I see he converted to being a traditional Catholic!!!!!!!!
I wonder if people "convert" to traditional Catholicism simply to infiltrate.
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I wonder if people "convert" to traditional Catholicism simply to infiltrate.
I’m almost certain that there are infiltrators in our ranks.
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St. Augustine
Exposition on Psalm 37
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801037.htm
Hear what another Scripture, foreseeing our Lord's future suffering at the hands of the ungodly, says. What says it? The earth is given into the hands of the wicked. Job 9:24 What is meant by earth being given into the hands of the ungodly? The delivering of the flesh into the hands of the persecutors. But God did not leave His righteous One there: from the flesh, which was taken captive, He leads forth the soul unconquered....
St. Thomas Aquinas
Catena Aurea on Luke
Chapter 23, Lecture 5
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~CaLuke.C23.L5.7
THEOPHYL.
Because also by a tree death had entered, it must needs be that by a tree it should be abolished, and that the Lord passing unconquered through the pains of a tree should subdue the pleasures which flow from a tree.
He means the tree of the Cross, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, respectively.
St. Leo the Great
Sermon 39
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360339.htm
See, dearly-beloved, with what mighty weapons, with what impregnable defences we are armed by our Leader, who is famous for His many triumphs, the unconquered Master of the Christian warfare.
St. Chrysostom
Homily 15 on Romans
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210215.htm
For they did not merely conquer, but in a wondrous way, and so that one might learn that those who plotted against them had a war not against men, but against that invincible Might.
St. Cyprian of Carthage
Treatise 4
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050704.htm
35.
[ . . . ]
For since Christ is the true sun and the true day, as the worldly sun and worldly day depart, when we pray and ask that light may return to us again, we pray for the advent of Christ, which shall give us the grace of everlasting light. Moreover, the Holy Spirit in the Psalms manifests that Christ is called the day. The stone, says He, which the builders rejected, has become the head of the corner. This is the Lord's doing; and it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made; let us walk and rejoice in it.
Also the prophet Malachi testifies that He is called the Sun, when he says, But to you that fear the name of the Lord shall the Sun of righteousness arise, and there is healing in His wings. Malachi 4:2 But if in the Holy Scriptures the true sun and the true day is Christ, there is no hour excepted for Christians wherein God ought not frequently and always to be worshipped; so that we who are in Christ — that is, in the true Sun and the true Day — should be instant throughout the entire day in petitions, and should pray; and when, by the law of the world, the revolving night, recurring in its alternate changes, succeeds, there can be no harm arising from the darkness of night to those who pray, because the children of light have the day even in the night. For when is he without light who has light in his heart? Or when has not he the sun and the day, whose Sun and Day is Christ?
St. Gregory nαzιanzen
Oration 45
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310245.htm
And of a year old, because He is the Sun of Righteousness Malachi 4:2 setting out from heaven, and circuмscribed by His visible Nature, and returning unto Himself. And The blessed crown of Goodness, — being on every side equal to Himself and alike; and not only this, but also as giving life to all the circle of the virtues, gently commingled and intermixed with each other, according to the Law of Love and Order. And Immaculate and guileless, as being the Healer of faults, and of the defects and taints that come from sin. For though He both took on Him our sins and bare our diseases, Isaiah 53:4 yet He did not Himself suffer anything that needed healing. For He was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 For he that persecuted the Light that shines in darkness could not overtake Him.
St. Chrysostom
Homily 9 on Second Timothy
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230709.htm
Hear from Christ, who says, If a man love Me, he will keep My words, and My Father and I will come unto him, and make Our abode with him. John 14:23 And think how great a privilege it is that He who will appear to all generally, should promise to come to us in particular: for He says, We will come and make Our abode with him. If any man love His appearing, he will do everything to invite Him to himself, and to hold Him, that the light may shine upon him. Let there be nothing unworthy of His coming, and He will soon take up His abode with us.
And it is called His Epiphany, because He will appear above, and shine forth from on high. Let us therefore seek those things that are above, and we shall soon draw down those beams upon us. None of those who grovel below, and bury themselves in this lower earth, will be able to view the light of that Sun. None of those who defile themselves with worldly things will be able to behold that Sun of righteousness. He shines on none of those who are so occupied. Recover yourself a little, recover yourself from that depth, from the waves of a worldly life, if you would see the Sun, and enjoy His appearing.
St. John of Damascus
An Exposition of the Orthodox Faith (Book II)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33042.htm
Chapter 1
[ . . . ]
For time will not be counted by days and nights even after the resurrection, but there will rather be one day with no evening, wherein the Sun of Justice will shine brightly on the just, but for the sinful there will be night profound and limitless.
St. Augustine
Sermon 28 on the New Testament
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160328.htm
2. The Lord Jesus Himself shone bright as the sun; His raiment became white as the snow; and Moses and Elias talked with Him. Jesus Himself indeed shone as the sun, signifying that He is the light which lights every man that comes into the world. What this sun is to the eyes of the flesh, that is He to the eyes of the heart; and what that is to the flesh of men, that is He to their hearts. Now His raiment is His Church. For if the raiment be not held together by him who puts it on, it will fall off. Of this raiment, Paul was as it were a sort of last border. For he says himself, I am the least of the Apostles. And in another place, I am the last of the Apostles. Now in a garment the border is the last and least part. Wherefore as that woman which suffered from an issue of blood, when she had touched the Lord's border was made whole, so the Church which came from out of the Gentiles, was made whole by the preaching of Paul. What wonder if the Church is signified by white raiment, when you hear the Prophet Isaiah saying, Though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white as snow? Moses and Elias, that is, the Law and the Prophets, what avail they, except they converse with the Lord? Except they give witness to the Lord, who would read the Law or the Prophets? Mark how briefly the Apostle expresses this; For by the Law is the knowledge of sin; but now the righteousness of God without the Law is manifested: behold the sun; being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, behold the shining of the Sun.
Basil
Hexaemeron (Homily 6)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/32016.htm
1.
[ . . . ]
Truly, if such are the good things of time, what will be those of eternity? If such is the beauty of visible things, what shall we think of invisible things? If the grandeur of heaven exceeds the measure of human intelligence, what mind shall be able to trace the nature of the everlasting? If the sun, subject to corruption, is so beautiful, so grand, so rapid in its movement, so invariable in its course; if its grandeur is in such perfect harmony with and due proportion to the universe: if, by the beauty of its nature, it shines like a brilliant eye in the middle of creation; if finally, one cannot tire of contemplating it, what will be the beauty of the Sun of Righteousness? If the blind man suffers from not seeing the material sun, what a deprivation is it for the sinner not to enjoy the true light!
St. John Cassian
Institutes (Book VIII)
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/350708.htm
Chapter 9.
And some are commanded to be angry after a wholesome fashion, but with our own selves, and with evil thoughts that arise, and not to sin, viz., by bringing them to a bad issue. Finally, the next verse explains this to be the meaning more clearly: The things you say in your hearts, be sorry for them on your beds: i.e., whatever you think of in your hearts when sudden and nervous excitements rush in on you, correct and amend with wholesome sorrow, lying as it were on a bed of rest, and removing by the moderating influence of counsel all noise and disturbance of wrath. Lastly, the blessed Apostle, when he made use of the testimony of this verse, and said, Be angry and sin not, added, Let not the sun go down upon your wrath, neither give place to the devil. Ephesians 4:26 If it is dangerous for the sun of righteousness to go down upon our wrath, and if when we are angry we straightway give place to the devil in our hearts, how is it that above he charges us to be angry, saying, Be angry, and sin not? Does he not evidently mean this: be angry with your faults and your tempers, lest, if you acquiesce in them, Christ, the sun of righteousness, may on account of your anger begin to go down on your darkened minds, and when He departs you may furnish a place for the devil in your hearts?
St. Gregory Thaumaturgus
On the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/06091.htm
Today are strains of praise sung joyfully by the choir of angels, and the light of the advent of Christ shines brightly upon the faithful. Today is the glad spring-time to us, and Christ the Sun of righteousness has beamed with clear light around us, [ . . . ]
St. Augustine
Sermon 78 on the New Testament
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160378.htm
2. Therefore was John sought for to bear witness to the Truth; and you have heard what He said; You came unto John; he was a burning and a shining lamp, and you were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. This lamp was prepared for their confusion, for of this was it said so long time before in the Psalms, I have prepared a lamp for Mine Anointed. What! A lamp for the Sun!
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Yes, exactly, the rays of the sun etc. are lovely symbols used by Catholics.
Sadly, there are Gnostic New Agers who use the same imagery.
They have a Christ, and a Jesus, and many other "Ascended Masters" including Catholic Saints such as St Francis, and St Therese, and they include Mother Theresa and Pope JPII and Padre Pio, etc.
and Mother Mary and they often promote the rosary.
Elizabeth Clare Prophet, the originator of that "prayer" Michael Flynn read, even promotes Fatima:
https://www.ascendedmastersspiritualretreats.org/archangel-raphael-mother-mary-fatima/
So when they talk about their "god" they are talking about Lucifer
and when they invoke the saints they are talking about the Ascended Masters
and when they talk about the Seven Fold Rays they are referring to
the sun god, Sol Invictus.
They use the term: I AM
because they ultimately believe we are all our own god.
It's nutty, but it's very, very real and it's the religion of the United Nations: Theosophy
(note: JPII was taught acting by a Theosophist linked to Blavatsky)
Anyway, Theosophy is just a fancy name for Luciferian
Really, Luciferianism, Satanism, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Rosicrucianism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, etc. etc.
are like Mexican food. The same ingredients are usually there (such as ecuмanism) but they are just presented in different ways.
People should research:
Ascended Masters
Master Jesus
Lucis Trust "Christ"
Sol Invictus
so they are not deceived by these people when they sound Catholic.
When you do research, do a Google Images search as well to see their symbols which are good clues to learn to look for.
Hugo Talks put out a few videos on how the MAGA rallies are connected to the Luciferian UN.
Here is one:
https://hugotalks.com/2022/04/19/trumps-new-age-doctor-network-hugo-talks/
Satan doesn't need to deceive the people on the left.
They are already deceived. They are already in the bag.
He needs to deceive the people on the "right".
He especially wants to deceive Catholics.
So we have to stay on our toes and notice the details.
This is exactly the point.
When Pope Leo Xlll heard the conversation between Our Lord and Satan. The devil asked for 100 years to destroy the Catholic Church. This doesn't necessarily mean the structure or buildings but also the faith in each individual soul.
The only way that he can deceive the good is by what appears to be good and true.
When Our Lady appeared at Fatima, in each apparition there were confirmations of articles of faith, the pope, sin, heaven, hell, purgatory and so on. She also emphasized the dogma of faith being preserved in Portugal. Portugal as a country does not proclaim the Catholic faith anymore but maybe some souls will retain it until the end.
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there is no historical use of that title for Jesus
The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries. Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity. It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.
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The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries. Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity. It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.
Yes, the Church does associate Christ with the Sun, but I’ve yet to see Her use that title to describe Our Lord.
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I think it’s just odd that Vigano used that particular title since it’s associated with satanists and that there is no historical use of that title for Jesus. I’m not saying that it’s proof enough to reject him, only that it’s one more reason to give me pause from jumping on the Vigano bandwagon.
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Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.
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Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.
No kidding. This is ridiculous. While someone could disagree with his use the imagery, imputing something nefarious to it ... as if he were some gnostic Satanist is the height of absurdity ... just a continuation of Miser's slander campaign. And Quo tipped his hand in the post to which you were responding, saying it's just one more reason to have "pause" about +Vigano. This is a bunch of individuals who don't like him for whatever reason and are literally just looking for stuff to try pinning on him, like throwing excrement (and that's what this is) at the wall hoping that some of it will stick. When one ludicrous claim is debunked, throw another one at him. They've already decided they don't like him ... for some because he was a Conciliar prelate for many years, for others because he said something nice (with much nuance that escaped the poor reading comprehension of the accusers) about Trump. How many of us have always been Traditional? Most of us have spent time as Conciliar Catholics ... and it was ONLY by the free unmerited grace of God that we became Traditional Catholics, the same grace that later brought +Vigano to Traditional Catholicism. There's a lot of resentment here from the types that remind me of the parable about the laborer who showed up at the end of the day but then was given the same reward. They resent the fact that +Vigano has suddenly burst onto the scene and become a "high profile" figure ... whereas all the other Trad bishops and priests labored in obscurity for decades. Strangely, it isn't the clerics who resent +Vigano. I hear very positive things about him from Bishop Sanborn, Father Jenkins, etc. It's the laymen.
If someone wants to make a concrete criticism, that's fair game, provided it remains charitable and truthful. I disagreed with his having been "soft" on Ratzinger when the latter died ... although you knew the softness was in the spirit of saying "nothing but good about the dead".
And none of the conspiracy theorists who think that +Vigano is some Masonic gnostic Satanist infiltrator has provided any kind of remotely plausible cui bono for what he's intending to accomplish. He's brought encouragement to long-time Traditional Catholics, has been influencing some of the conservative / neo-con fence-sitters to take a side, and has been shifting the latter to the right ... not something that a gatekeeping infiltrator would seek to accomplish.
+Vigano is not perfect, but he's also not gnostic Masonic Satanist agent attempting to destroy Traditional Catholicism either.
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Issues with Vigano:
1.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4a5sEE.jpg)
2. Participates at Zionist ecuмenical prayer rally and addresses crowd of Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants etc. as the children of Light. Why? Are they baptized or believers in Our Lord Jesus or Catholic? No. The only thing they have in common is they support Trump.
3. Writes letter to rabbi stating that Jєωs do not wait for their Messiah in vain when their Moshiach is the Antichrist.
4. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, (who has made clear his plan to infiltrate and take down the Church from within by strengthening Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) and Opus Dei people in Venice to plan the post covid era.
5. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, at the Russophile conference.
6. Shares Dugin's doctrine stating that Moscow is the Third Rome. This when Moscow's Putin has declared Communism came from Christianity and promotes venerating Stalin's relics and their Orthodox Church is run by KGB Kirill and is a heretical sect that promotes ecuмanism.
7. Lied to the Awaken America crowd by stating that the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump. This after 1000's of deaths and Trump demands credit and wants to go down as the Father of the Vaccine.
8. Prophecized that Trump would negotiate a peace deal that would create a "coexistence of equal nations". That phrase is communist doctrine with ties to Lenin, Kruschev and the UN as well as the objectives of the NWO described by Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
9. Eulogizes Benedict by saying he is in Purgatory or Heaven. No chance of Hell for that notorious heretic. Says Benedict was liberal in his youth but conservative in his later years. 100% not true.
10. Declares three Katechons, none of which are the true papacy:
Trump, Benedict, and Moscow
11. Uses phrases that are very special to the lodge such as ending letters which are not even prayerful with the words: So may it be.
As well as repeatedly referring to Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Luciferian Freemason god: Sol Invictus.
12. Continues to support Trump at Zionist Awaken America Rallies. Continually declares that Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates etc. when he is clearly implementing their goals.
But give him time, he's still learning.
Maybe he'll learn the First Commandment sometime soon.
(https://i.imgur.com/f99PKld.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hnh1JDr.png)
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No kidding. This is ridiculous. While someone could disagree with his use the imagery, imputing something nefarious to it ... as if he were some gnostic Satanist is the height of absurdity ... just a continuation of Miser's slander campaign. And Quo tipped his hand in the post to which you were responding, saying it's just one more reason to have "pause" about +Vigano. This is a bunch of individuals who don't like him for whatever reason and are literally just looking for stuff to try pinning on him, like throwing excrement (and that's what this is) at the wall hoping that some of it will stick. When one ludicrous claim is debunked, throw another one at him. They've already decided they don't like him ... for some because he was a Conciliar prelate for many years, for others because he said something nice (with much nuance that escaped the poor reading comprehension of the accusers) about Trump. How many of us have always been Traditional? Most of us have spent time as Conciliar Catholics ... and it was ONLY by the free unmerited grace of God that we became Traditional Catholics, the same grace that later brought +Vigano to Traditional Catholicism. There's a lot of resentment here from the types that remind me of the parable about the laborer who showed up at the end of the day but then was given the same reward. They resent the fact that +Vigano has suddenly burst onto the scene and become a "high profile" figure ... whereas all the other Trad bishops and priests labored in obscurity for decades. Strangely, it isn't the clerics who resent +Vigano. I hear very positive things about him from Bishop Sanborn, Father Jenkins, etc. It's the laymen.
If someone wants to make a concrete criticism, that's fair game, provided it remains charitable and truthful. I disagreed with his having been "soft" on Ratzinger when the latter died ... although you knew the softness was in the spirit of saying "nothing but good about the dead".
And none of the conspiracy theorists who think that +Vigano is some Masonic gnostic Satanist infiltrator has provided any kind of remotely plausible cui bono for what he's intending to accomplish. He's brought encouragement to long-time Traditional Catholics, has been influencing some of the conservative / neo-con fence-sitters to take a side, and has been shifting the latter to the right ... not something that a gatekeeping infiltrator would seek to accomplish.
+Vigano is not perfect, but he's also not gnostic Masonic Satanist agent attempting to destroy Traditional Catholicism either.
More of your rash judgements, aye? Just because I’m hesitant in accepting a new comer NO “bishop” who says many good things intermixed with a few strange untraditional quotes (among a few other questionable things like: Why hasn’t Bergoglio punished him yet?) makes me a “conspiracy theorist”? :laugh1:
As for the cui bono garbage, please! I’ve answered it before, and if you can’t understand what the cui bono would be for him, if he were actually insincere, I can’t help you to understand. This is logic 101.
FOR THE RECORD, I have hope for Vigano. I believe he’s most likely sincere and of good will. THAT DOES NOT mean that I trust him totally.
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Issues with Vigano:
1.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4a5sEE.jpg)
2. Participates at Zionist ecuмenical prayer rally and addresses crowd of Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants etc. as the children of Light. Why? Are they baptized or believers in Our Lord Jesus or Catholic? No. The only thing they have in common is they support Trump.
3. Writes letter to rabbi stating that Jєωs do not wait for their Messiah in vain when their Moshiach is the Antichrist.
4. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, (who has made clear his plan to infiltrate and take down the Church from within by strengthening Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) and Opus Dei people in Venice to plan the post covid era.
5. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, at the Russophile conference.
6. Shares Dugin's doctrine stating that Moscow is the Third Rome. This when Moscow's Putin has declared Communism came from Christianity and promotes venerating Stalin's relics and their Orthodox Church is run by KGB Kirill and is a heretical sect that promotes ecuмanism.
7. Lied to the Awaken America crowd by stating that the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump. This after 1000's of deaths and Trump demands credit and wants to go down as the Father of the Vaccine.
8. Prophecized that Trump would negotiate a peace deal that would create a "coexistence of equal nations". That phrase is communist doctrine with ties to Lenin, Kruschev and the UN as well as the objectives of the NWO described by Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
9. Eulogizes Benedict by saying he is in Purgatory or Heaven. No chance of Hell for that notorious heretic. Says Benedict was liberal in his youth but conservative in his later years. 100% not true.
10. Declares three Katechons, none of which are the true papacy:
Trump, Benedict, and Moscow
11. Uses phrases that are very special to the lodge such as ending letters which are not even prayerful with the words: So may it be.
As well as repeatedly referring to Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Luciferian Freemason god: Sol Invictus.
12. Continues to support Trump at Zionist Awaken America Rallies. Continually declares that Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates etc. when he is clearly implementing their goals.
But give him time, he's still learning.
Maybe he'll learn the First Commandment sometime soon.
(https://i.imgur.com/f99PKld.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hnh1JDr.png)
Miser Peccator: Are you a government plant sent to discredit Msgr. Vigano with these ridiculous posts?
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Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.
True, that could be the explanation.
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Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.
Or maybe he learned it here?
(https://i.imgur.com/LLiqCIZ.png)
Who knows.
With so many beautiful titles to choose from, why choose theirs?
As I've already posted twice in this thread,
both Popes Pius VI and Pius XI
said we should call out this kind of thing when we see it.
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Just so I don’t get unjustly attacked by certain members of this forum, I want to make it clear that I’m still giving Vigano the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Well that didn't take long. :laugh1:
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Miser Peccator: Are you a government plant sent to discredit Msgr. Vigano with these ridiculous posts?
Which part of the evidence do you dispute?
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Well that didn't take long. :laugh1:
Gotta love peer pressure.
Thou shalt not question the great Vigano!
(https://i.imgur.com/sRVQZre.png)
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Well that didn't take long. :laugh1:
He can’t help himself…..He’s a total fanboy. 😂
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Miser Peccator: Are you a government plant sent to discredit Msgr. Vigano with these ridiculous posts?
I don't get it. Why would she be a "government plant to discredit Vigano"?
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Or maybe he learned it here?
(https://i.imgur.com/LLiqCIZ.png)
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So you think his description of Christ as "sol invictus" is some sort of dog whistle to freemasons? And you are the only person who hears this dog whistle and gets the reference? This doesn't sound like a very effective form of dog whistle, if only one person in the world can hear it, and that's you.
Can you provide us with any evidence that freemasons out there are listening to Vigano and recognizing this reference he is supposedly giving to them?
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So you think his description of Christ as "sol invictus" is some sort of dog whistle to freemasons? And you are the only person who hears this dog whistle and gets the reference? This doesn't sound like a very effective form of dog whistle, if only one person in the world can hear it, and that's you.
Can you provide us with any evidence that freemasons out there are listening to Vigano and recognizing this reference he is supposedly giving to them?
Why would members of a secret society which desires to infiltrate and take down the Catholic Church from within tell the world openly:
"Hey that guy is one of ours!"
That's why they use their little phrases and hand signs in the first place.
They don't want us to recognize it.
They always use methods that allow them to cover themselves with plausible deniability.
There is no way to prove it. There is only noting it and calling it out.
Again from Pope Pius VI:
Pope Pius VI, “Auctorem fidei": “… it cannot be excused in the way that one sees it being done, under the erroneous pretext that the seemingly shocking affirmations in one place are further developed along orthodox lines in other places, and even in yet other places corrected; as if allowing for the possibility of either affirming or denying the statement… such has always been the fraudulent and daring method used by innovators to establish error. It allows for both the possibility of promoting error and of excusing it.
"…It is a most reprehensible technique for the insinuation of doctrinal errors and one condemned long ago by our predecessor Saint Celestine who found it used in the writings of Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople, and which he exposed in order to condemn it with the greatest possible severity. Once these texts were examined carefully, the impostor was exposed and confounded, for he expressed himself in a plethora of words, mixing true things with others that were obscure; mixing at times one with the other in such a way that he was also able to confess those things which were denied while at the same time possessing a basis for denying those very sentences which he confessed.”
"In order to expose such snares, something which becomes necessary with a certain frequency in every century, no other method is required than the following: WHENEVER IT BECOMES NECESSARY TO EXPOSE STATEMENTS WHICH DISGUISE SOME SUSPECTED ERROR OR DANGER UNDER THE VEIL OF AMBIGUITY, ONE MUST DENOUNCE THE PERVERSE MEANING UNDER WHICH THE ERROR OPPOSED TO CATHOLIC TRUTH IS CAMOUFLAGED.”
and again:
Already Tertullian (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc)
had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God;
Augustine (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02084a.htm) (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P.L., XXXV, 1652)
denounces the heretical (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm) identification of Christ (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) with Sol.
Pope Leo I (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09154b.htm) (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P.L., LIV, 218 and 198)
bitterly reproves solar survivals — Christians (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm), on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun.
Sun-worship has bequeathed features to modern popular worship in Armenia (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01736b.htm),
where Christians had once temporarily and externally conformed to the cult of the material sun (cuмont, op. cit., p. 356).
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm
(https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm)But whatever, let's say it's nothing. Just a coincidence.
Okay, he has committed plenty of other scandalous, heretical statements and actions that should be huge red flags to people.
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St. John Vianney
Sermons of the Curé of Ars
Easter: Paschal Joys
2.
[ . . . ]
When the Man of Sorrows, His struggle and His sufferings ended, cried out to the world with a loud voice those mighty words, “ It is consummated,” when He bowed His head and gave up the ghost, the sun was obscured; it did not want to behold that dreadful spectacle; the earth was shaken mightily, its graves opened, and the dead arose. Today, however, one grave is opened and, from it, has arisen a sun which will never be obscured, which will never set, a sun which, like unto the sun of springtime, creates new life. This new sun is the Crucified One, the Son of God, and God Himself, blessed for all eternity.
St. Catherine of Siena
Dialog
Of the dignity of the priest; and of the Sacrament of the Body of Christ; and of worthy and unworthy communicants.
Wherefore, as I have said to you, I, God, have become man, and man has become God by the union of My Divine Nature with your human nature. This greatness is given in general to all rational creatures, but, among these I have especially chosen My ministers for the sake of your salvation, so that, through them, the Blood of the humble and immaculate Lamb, My only-begotten Son, may be administered to you. To them have I given the Sun to administer, giving them the light of science and the heat of Divine Love, united together in the color of the Body and Blood of My Son, whose Body is a Sun, because He is one thing with Me, the True Sun, in such a way that He cannot be separated or divided from Me, as in the case of the natural sun, in which heat and light cannot be separated, so perfect is their union; for, the sun, never leaving its orbit, lights the whole world and warms whoever wishes to be warmed by it, and is not defiled by any impurity on which it shines, for its light and heat and color are united.
“So this Word, My Son, with His most sweet Blood, is one Sun, all God and all man, because He is one thing with Me and I with Him. My power is not separated from His wisdom, nor the fiery heat of the Holy Spirit from Me, the Father, or from Him, the Son; for He is one thing with us, the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son, and We together forming one and the same Sun; that is to say, I, the Eternal God, am that Sun whence have proceeded the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Prayer Of Saint Bernard
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/pray/prayer117.shtml
Thou art, then, come into the world, oh Mary, as a resplendent dawn, preceding, with the light of thy sanctity, the coming of the Sun of Justice. The day in which thou didst appear in the world may truly be called the day of salvation, the day of grace. Thou art fair as the moon; for as there is no planet more like the sun, so there is no creature more like God than thou art. The moon illuminates the night with the light which it receives from the sun, and thou dost illuminate our darkness, with the splendor of thy virtues; and thou art fairer than the moon, because in thee is found neither stain nor shade. Thou art bright as the sun, I mean as that Sun which hath created the sun; he has been chosen among all men, and thou among all women.
Fr John Croiset
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus .
DECEMBER: MEDITATION FOR THE SECOND FRIDAY IN DECEMBER
How deplorable is the blindness of the Jews! and what will these unfortunate men be able to say, when they shall be reproached, for the misfortunes they have drawn upon themselves, by their blindness? You had the light in the midst of you, will it be said to them, and you have shut your eyes, because you preferred darkness. The Sun of justice so long expected, had risen amongst you, and you would not profit by the brilliant light which would have made you happy. This same light is still with us in the Blessed Sacrament, but are all Christians wiser than the Jews? do all Christians profit by this light?
St. John Eudes
The Admirable Heart of Mary
Part 1, Chapter 1
Mary appears in heaven because she comes from heaven, because she is heaven's masterpiece, the Empress of Heaven, its joy and its glory, in whom everything is heavenly. Even when her body dwelt on earth, her thoughts and affections were all rapt in heaven. She is clothed with the eternal Sun of the Godhead and with all the perfections of the Divine Essence, which surround, fill and penetrate her to such an extent that she has become transformed, as it were, into the power, goodness and holiness of God.
Ibid.
Part 1, Chapter 2
It was a great privilege for St. John, the beloved disciple, to have rested once on the Savior’s adorable breast, from which he drew such great light and derived the knowledge of so many marvelous secrets. But not only once but many times did our divine Savior rest on the virginal heart of His dearest Mother. What abundance of lights, of grace and of blessings the Eternal Sun, the very source of light and grace, must have poured into that maternal heart, on which He rested so often!
The Admirable Life of Madre Mariana de Jesus Torres
Fr. Manuel Sousa Pereira
Page 19
She remained in this position in complete annihilation until 2 o'clock in the morning. Then the Heavenly Dawn appeared to her, carrying in her arms the Divine Sun of Justice.
St. Anselm
Book of Meditations and Prayers
Thirteenth Meditation
O sweet Jesus, living and all-desirable Bread; sweet Fruit of the vine; Oil of mingled rarities; gentle Lamb; strong Lion; lovely Leopard;6 guileless Dove; swift Eagle; Star of the morning; Sun of eternity; Angel of peace; fontal Light of the sempiternal lights; let my every sense conspire to praise Thee, and love Thee, delight in Thee, and admire Thee; Thee, the God of my heart and my portion, Christ Jesus.
St. Francis of Sales
Introduction to the Devout Life
Part III.
CHAPTER XXIII. On The Practice of Bodily Mortification.
Every one must take so much of the night for sleep, as his constitution, and the profitable performance of his day’s work, requires. Holy Scripture continually teaches us that the morning is the best and most profitable part of the day, and so do the examples of the Saints and our natural reason. Our Lord Himself is called the Sun, rising upon the earth, and our Lady the Day-star; and so I think it is wise to go to sleep early at night in order to be ready to waken and rise early.
St. Teresa of Avila
The Interior Castle
1. The First Mansions
4. O souls, redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ, take these things to heart; have mercy on yourselves! If you realize your pitiable condition, how can you refrain from trying to remove the darkness from the crystal of your souls? Remember, if death should take you now, you would never again enjoy the light of this Sun.
Ibid.
7. The Seventh Mansion
4. It is important, sisters, that we should not fancy the soul to be in darkness. As we are accustomed to believe there is no light but that which is exterior, we imagine that the soul is wrapt in obscurity. This is indeed the case with a soul out of the state of grace, not, however, through any defer in the Sun of Justice which remains within it and gives it being, but the soul itself is incapable of receiving the light, as I think I said in speaking of the first Mansion.
Blessed Peter Julian Eymard
The Real Presence
Chapter:Adoration in Spirit and in Truth
True love looks not at what it gives but at what its Beloved deserves. Jesus will thus be pleased with you and will speak to you of yourself. He will tell you His love for you, and your heart will open under the rays of this Sun, just as a flower, dampened and chilled by the night air, opens under the rays of the sun.
Ibid.
Chapter: The Divine Bridegroom of the Church
The Eucharist is the glory of the Church. Jesus Christ, her Spouse, is King. He is the King of glory. His Father has placed a dazzling crown upon His head. But the glory of the Bridegroom is the glory of the bride; the Church, like the beautiful orb of night, reflects the Divine rays of the Sun of glory.
Ibid.
Chapter: The Cultus of the Eurcharist
Our Lord comes from Heaven with nothing but His goodness. He has nothing else, and He expects His followers to furnish Him with everything that is required for His existence here below: His temple, the matter for His Sacrifice, the lamps, and the sacred vessels He needs to become Sacrament; we give Him everything! Without these lights and this little throne our Lord cannot come out of His tabernacle. We give them to Him, and we can say to Him: "Thou art on a beautiful throne. It is we that have erected it for Thee. It is we that have opened the door of Thy prison and rent the cloud that hid Thee, O Sun of love. Dart Thy rays now on every heart."
Ibid.
Chapter: Self-abasement, Characteristic of the Eucharist
His abasements eclipse all that is glorious in Him. If our Lord allowed His glory to appear, He would no longer be our model of self-abasement, and we would be justified in seeking the glory and majesty of virtue. But have you seen the glory of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament? He is a hidden Sun. He works miracles now and then; but they are rare and only serve to recall and make more impressive His habitual abasement. He wants to remain entirely hidden.
Reverend Jeremias Drexelius
Heliotropium: Conformity of the Human Will to the Divine
Chapter 5.
We depend on God more than a ray does on the sun, or heat on fire. God has more power over us than the potter has over the clay, and yet from this Sun of ours—the Divine Will—we willfully turn away. Are we bidden to forgive an enemy? We refuse to do so. Or, to restrain our unbridled lust? We are just as unwilling. To subdue our impotent rage? And this, too, we are unwilling to attempt. To abstain from this or that evil habit? We are very slow, indeed, in wishing to do it; or, in other words, we quietly refuse to do it. a progeny, not of eagles, but of owls, who follow not the Sun of the Divine Will, but the darkness of their own will! But hence springs every kind of evil, and every kind of punishment.
Matthias Joseph Scheeben
The Glories of Divine Grace
Third Book, First Chapter
Light is an emanation from the most perfect body, the sun; grace, however, is an emanation from the most perfect Spirit, the Divine spiritual Sun, which has created the material sun out of nothing and placed it in the heavens as a faint image of its glory. The material sun makes the planets, that are dark in themselves, bright stars; but grace makes the souls in the spiritual heavens, spiritual stars, that shine far more brilliantly than the material stars, as the prophet Daniel says: "They shall shine as stars for all eternity."6 Material light converts a pure mirror or a clear crystal into an image of the material sun, so that it appears as the sun itself; grace, however, not only communicates to us the splendor of the Divine sun, but encircles us with it, as with a crown, and introduces us into its innermost being.
Saint Therese of Lisieux
Story of a Soul
Chapter 1
I understood this also, that God's Love is made manifest as well in a simple soul which does not resist His grace as in one more highly endowed. In fact, the characteristic of love being self-abasement, if all souls resembled the holy Doctors who have illuminated the Church, it seems that God in coming to them would not stoop low enough. But He has created the little child, who knows nothing and can but utter feeble cries, and the poor savage who has only the natural law to guide him, and it is to their hearts that He deigns to stoop. These are the field flowers whose simplicity charms Him; and by His condescension to them Our Saviour shows His infinite greatness. As the sun shines both on the cedar and on the floweret, so the Divine Sun illumines every soul, great and small, and all correspond to His care--just as in nature the seasons are so disposed that on the appointed day the humblest daisy shall unfold its petals.
Ibid.
Chapter 11
How can a soul so imperfect as mine aspire to the plenitude of Love? What is the key of this mystery? O my only Friend, why dost Thou not reserve these infinite longings to lofty souls, to the eagles that soar in the heights? Alas! I am but a poor little unfledged bird. I am not an eagle, I have but the eagle's eyes and heart! Yet, notwithstanding my exceeding littleless, I dare to gaze upon the Divine Sun of Love, and I burn to dart upwards unto Him!
LETTERS OF SOEUR THÉRÈSE, THE LITTLE FLOWER OF JESUS, TO HER SISTER CÉLINE
The Lily of the valley asks but a single dewdrop, which for one night shall rest in its cup, hidden from all human eyes. But when the shadows shall begin to fade, when the Flower of the field shall have become the Sun of Justice, [219] then the dewdrop--the humble sharer of His exile--will rise up to Him as love's vapour. He will shed on her a ray of His light, and before the whole court of Heaven she will shine eternally like a precious pearl, a dazzling mirror of the Divine Sun.
Sister Josefa Menendez
The Way of Divine Love
Book Three, Chapter 10
“You know, too, what happens when an insignificant little flower devoid of charm or fragrance springs up on a high-road full of traffic. It quickly gets trampled underfoot by the passers-by, who pay not the slightest attention to it, nor so much as notice its existence. And think, Josefa, what would have become of you if I had left you, frail and miserable as you are, to the cold of winter, the heat of summer, to be the sport of wind and rain; assuredly you would have died. But because I want you to live, I transplanted you into the garden of My Sacred Heart, tending you with My own hands, that you may grow up under the beams of the Sun with Its vivifying and restoring power, whose strength is tempered in your regard, that no injury may come to you.
Archbishop Jeremiah Kinane
Saint Joseph: His Life, His Virtues, His Privileges, His Power
Part II, Chapter IV, Section V.
If one ray of God’s pure love is sufficient, as it is, to purify and sanctify the soul of man, what must be the purity of St. Joseph, upon whose soul shone for years, in their full effulgence, the rays of the Eternal Sun of Justice?
St. Gertrude the Great
Life and Revelations
Part 1, Chapter 9
O greatness of this little bit of dust, which this celestial Lover has taken from the mire to encase His jewels! O excellence of this little flower, which the ray of the true Sun Himself has drawn from the marsh, to make it beautiful as Himself!
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Invictus has several meanings.
It means undefeated, unconquered, or invincible.
Is our Lord all of these things? Yes
Is our Lord the true sun? Yes
Ergo, well can it be said that our Lord is Sol Invictus.
-
St. John Vianney
Sermons of the Curé of Ars
Easter: Paschal Joys
St. Catherine of Siena
Dialog
Of the dignity of the priest; and of the Sacrament of the Body of Christ; and of worthy and unworthy communicants.
Prayer Of Saint Bernard
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/pray/prayer117.shtml
Fr John Croiset
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus .
DECEMBER: MEDITATION FOR THE SECOND FRIDAY IN DECEMBER
St. John Eudes
The Admirable Heart of Mary
Part 1, Chapter 1
Ibid.
Part 1, Chapter 2
The Admirable Life of Madre Mariana de Jesus Torres
Fr. Manuel Sousa Pereira
Page 19
St. Anselm
Book of Meditations and Prayers
Thirteenth Meditation
St. Francis of Sales
Introduction to the Devout Life
Part III.
CHAPTER XXIII. On The Practice of Bodily Mortification.
St. Teresa of Avila
The Interior Castle
1. The First Mansions
Ibid.
7. The Seventh Mansion
Blessed Peter Julian Eymard
The Real Presence
Chapter:Adoration in Spirit and in Truth
Ibid.
Chapter: The Divine Bridegroom of the Church
Ibid.
Chapter: The Cultus of the Eurcharist
Ibid.
Chapter: Self-abasement, Characteristic of the Eucharist
Reverend Jeremias Drexelius
Heliotropium: Conformity of the Human Will to the Divine
Chapter 5.
Matthias Joseph Scheeben
The Glories of Divine Grace
Third Book, First Chapter
Saint Therese of Lisieux
Story of a Soul
Chapter 1
Ibid.
Chapter 11
LETTERS OF SOEUR THÉRÈSE, THE LITTLE FLOWER OF JESUS, TO HER SISTER CÉLINE
Sister Josefa Menendez
The Way of Divine Love
Book Three, Chapter 10
Archbishop Jeremiah Kinane
Saint Joseph: His Life, His Virtues, His Privileges, His Power
Part II, Chapter IV, Section V.
St. Gertrude the Great
Life and Revelations
Part 1, Chapter 9
Thanks for sharing your research!
Yes, this demonstrates what we were discussing earlier in the thread.
There are numerous sun references to be found
especially as the Sun of Righteousness or Justice
but nobody has yet found an example of calling Our Lord Jesus Christ
the Sol Invictus.
(https://i.imgur.com/h55WGl3.png)
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As posted earlier in this thread:
Catholic Encyclopedia
In the fourth century, Chrysostom, "del Solst. Et Æquin." (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: "Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiæ." — "But Our Lord (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm), too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . .,
But they
(who are they?? NOT the Catholics)
call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'.
Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) . . .?
(True. Our Lord is unconquered but we don't use that title.)
Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun,
He is the Sun of Justice."
(That's the title we use. Sun of Justice.)
I've never seen the title Sun of Justice
used for Lucifer or Freemason lodges or Wiccan prayers etc.
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True. Sol Justitiae, not Sol Invictus. How many times does it have to be said that Sol Invictus has never been used by the Catholic Church as a title, but has been used by Luciferians and New Agers?
Why not pray the Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus instead?
https://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Litany%20of%20the%20Holy%20Name.html
Put not your trust in princes: 3 In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit shall go forth, and he shall return into his earth: in that day all their thoughts shall perish. 5 Blessed is he who hath the God of Jacob for his helper, whose hope is in the Lord his God: (Psalm 145)
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Why would members of a secret society which desires to infiltrate and take down the Catholic Church from within tell the world openly:
"Hey that guy is one of ours!"
That's why they use their little phrases and hand signs in the first place.
They don't want us to recognize it.
They always use methods that allow them to cover themselves with plausible deniability.
There is no way to prove it.
.
:facepalm: You know what, Miser, you just made it onto my ignore list. Almost everything you post on here is complete bushido (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido). I've had enough of this.
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.
:facepalm: You know what, Miser, you just made it onto my ignore list. Almost everything you post on here is complete bushido (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido). I've had enough of this.
Okay,
will you be putting Pope Pius VI on your ignore list too?
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True. Sol Justitiae, not Sol Invictus. How many times does it have to be said that Sol Invictus has never been used by the Catholic Church as a title, but has been used by Luciferians and New Agers?
Why not pray the Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus instead?
https://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Litany%20of%20the%20Holy%20Name.html
Put not your trust in princes: 3 In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit shall go forth, and he shall return into his earth: in that day all their thoughts shall perish. 5 Blessed is he who hath the God of Jacob for his helper, whose hope is in the Lord his God: (Psalm 145)
That sums it up quite nicely!
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I suppose it could be said that if JPII can come up with his “luminous” mysteries of the Holy Rosary, then Vigano can come up with a new title, Sol Invictus, for Our Lord. But it’s not one I’ll be using, especially since it’s used by Luciferians.
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Or maybe he learned it here?
(https://i.imgur.com/LLiqCIZ.png)
And just to be clear, in case people missed it because you have to slide the photo
notice the name of this lodge: Sol Invictus 13
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True. Sol Justitiae, not Sol Invictus. How many times does it have to be said that Sol Invictus has never been used by the Catholic Church as a title, but has been used by Luciferians and New Agers?
Yes, the title Sol Invictus for Christ appears to be a clear innovation. This should make others here at least question it rather than poo poo it or make excuses for it (or attack other posters who do question it).
Pages and pages and no one has come up with just one example where the Church has used this title for Our Lord. One doesn't have to jump to the conclusion that it's secret code, but it should raise a Catholic's eyebrow.
But....it appears innovations are more than not OK to make ....unless they are made by Vigano.
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:facepalm: Yeah, an “innovation” that goes back to the first centuries.
P.s. This is a unique topic in that almost all the women agree there’s a problem and most of the men do not. Draw your own conclusions…:laugh1:
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:facepalm: Yeah, an “innovation” that goes back to the first centuries.
P.s. This is a unique topic in that almost all the women agree there’s a problem and most of the men do not. Draw your own conclusions…:laugh1:
Yep. This is absurd. OK, so what? Maybe +Vigano shouldn't use Our Lord as the Sun imagery, as appears in Sacred Scripture, St. Clement of Alexandria, early Christian iconography, etc. Maybe. But answer the question: SO WHAT? This stupidity that he's some gnostic sun-worshipping Luciferian as a result is the biggest load of slanderous nonsense that I've ever heard. At worst he was wrong in not rejecting the Scriptural, Patristic, and historical precedents for this imagery. At best, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.
What we're witnessing is a number of individual who simply don't like +Vigano for various ulterior motives and are looking for anything to justify their animosity toward him. He could come out tomorrow and declare all the V2 papal claimants illegitimate, and these folks still would claim that he's a Luciferian infiltrator.
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Yeah, those silly women at the tomb! :laugh1:
And (most of) the men continue to ignore the specific title in question: Sol Invictus. Never used by the Church.
While continuing with the facepalming and insults.
Stop acting like children.
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Never used by the Church.
So then all the saints that were quoted on this thread are also luciferian and not 'part of the Church'. :facepalm:
How do you know that this term hasn't been used before by 'Church authorities'? Have you read every book in the Vatican archives?
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I think the suspicions about +Vigano are not based solely about him referring to Our Lord as Sol Invictus, the same title used by satanists and Freemasons. That standing alone could be overlooked. Put together with his ecuмenical support in the Trump rallies, and renew America gatherings, referring to heretics, jews, and those who oppose the "deep state" as the "children of light" or " those aligned with God", is very disturbing coming from a prince of the church whose duty it is to convert souls to the true faith and not coddle and support them in their errors.
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Pygmalion’s Power: Romanesque Sculpture, the Senses, and Religious Experience
Thomas E. A. Dale
Published by the Pennsylvania State University Press
Chapter 5: Renewing the Temple: Living Stones and Embodied Theophanies
Pages 195 to 196:
The antiphons sung at Saint-Lazare on the feast of the Presentation/Purification in conjunction with the blessing of the candles emphasize the theme of vision and light, drawing on Simeon’s proclamation that Christ is the “Light to illuminate the Gentiles” to signal the mediation of the purified physical senses in facilitating spiritual seeing and entry into the heavenly Jerusalem:
May the [faithful people] rejoice not only on account of the exterior light, but also the expulsion of blindness from the heart. Just as the light illuminates that which it grasps in the shadows, may it by no means stray from the pathway of truth. . . . May you [God] thus fill us with the light of your brightness so that the shadows of all infidelities may be repelled from us. And just as today, you sent away your servant, thus may you find us worthy to manage in the peace of your holy church, so that we might be worthy to enter the portal of repose. In the day of the judgment of the just, may we be worthy [to enter] in the place where the rays of true light with the hymns of the chorus of angels are poured out, [and] to see the face of the invincible Sun, the same Jesus Christ our Lord.61
Sol Invictus
(By Saint-Lazare the text means the Cathedral of Saint Lazarus in Autun, France)
Note 61 Cited in Zink, “Zur Ikonographie,” 53–55.
Zink, Jochen. Zur Ikonographie der Portalskulptur der Kathedrale Saint-Lazare in Autun.” Jahrbuch des Zentralinstituts für Kunstgeschichte 5/6 (1989–90): 7–160.
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Yep. This is absurd. OK, so what? Maybe +Vigano shouldn't use Our Lord as the Sun imagery, as appears in Sacred Scripture, St. Clement of Alexandria, early Christian iconography, etc. Maybe. But answer the question: SO WHAT? This stupidity that he's some gnostic sun-worshipping Luciferian as a result is the biggest load of slanderous nonsense that I've ever heard. At worst he was wrong in not rejecting the Scriptural, Patristic, and historical precedents for this imagery. At best, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.
What we're witnessing is a number of individual who simply don't like +Vigano for various ulterior motives and are looking for anything to justify their animosity toward him. He could come out tomorrow and declare all the V2 papal claimants illegitimate, and these folks still would claim that he's a Luciferian infiltrator.
More rash judging…… This is absolutely preposterous! What you are really saying is that we have to accept Vigano’s sincerity without hesitation or question! In reality, it is totally imperative and extremely prudent that one be skeptical of any cleric, especially a high ranking one, coming out of the false NO church.
Frankly, who are you, or any of the other fanboys on this forum, to bully anyone into accepting a NO cleric without question or hesitation? Your judgement on important matters like this is very questionable indeed.
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I think the suspicions about +Vigano are not based solely about him referring to Our Lord as Sol Invictus, the same title used by satanists and Freemasons. That standing alone could be overlooked. Put together with his ecuмenical support in the Trump rallies, and renew America gatherings, referring to heretics, jews, and those who oppose the "deep state" as the "children of light" or " those aligned with God", is very disturbing coming from a prince of the church whose duty it is to convert souls to the true faith and not coddle and support them in their errors.
Yes, those of us who have concerns understand this. I agree: if this was the only thing, it could be overlooked. But it is not.
When Michael Matt nixed Vigano from his Unite the Novus Ordo Clans, I saw that as a very positive turn and, as a result, I put these other concerns on the back burner temporarily; however, his message at the most recent "Reawaken America Tour" made me take another look at them (as well as consider others I had not considered before...this being one).
To PV's point, which is a valid point, I do not know for sure whether this particular title has ever been used/approved by the Church, but there is no evidence for it. And no one who is saying it has been used/approved by the Church has been able to prove that it has. All they do is point to other titles that have "Sol" in them as proof. Again, if this were the only issue, we could let it go (at least I could), but it's not (at least for me).
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Yes, those of us who have concerns understand this. I agree: if this was the only thing, it could be overlooked. But it is not.
When Michael Matt nixed Vigano from his Unite the Novus Ordo Clans, I saw that as a very positive turn and, as a result, I put these other concerns on the back burner temporarily; however, his message at the most recent "Reawaken America Tour" made me take another look at them (as well as consider others I had not considered before).
To PV's point, which is a valid point, I do not know for sure whether this particular title has ever been used/approved by the Church, but there is no evidence for it. And no one who is saying it has been used/approved by the Church has been able to prove that it has. All they do is point to other titles that have "Sol" in them as proof. Again, if this were the only issue, we could let it go (at least I could), but it's not (at least for me).
Excellent post. Ditto.
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The antiphons sung at Saint-Lazare on the feast of the Presentation/Purification in conjunction with the blessing of the candles emphasize the theme of vision and light, drawing on Simeon’s proclamation that Christ is the “Light to illuminate the Gentiles” to signal the mediation of the purified physical senses in facilitating spiritual seeing and entry into the heavenly Jerusalem:
May the [faithful people] rejoice not only on account of the exterior light, but also the expulsion of blindness from the heart. Just as the light illuminates that which it grasps in the shadows, may it by no means stray from the pathway of truth. . . . May you [God] thus fill us with the light of your brightness so that the shadows of all infidelities may be repelled from us. And just as today, you sent away your servant, thus may you find us worthy to manage in the peace of your holy church, so that we might be worthy to enter the portal of repose. In the day of the judgment of the just, may we be worthy [to enter] in the place where the rays of true light with the hymns of the chorus of angels are poured out, [and] to see the face of the invincible Sun, the same Jesus Christ our Lord.61
Thank you, Trad123, for bringing sanity (and more evidence) to this discussion.
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To PV's point, which is a valid point, I do not know for sure whether this particular title has ever been used/approved by the Church
Thank you (finally) for changing your stance from "it's never been used by the Church" to "I don't know".
Now with the antiphon evidence, you can change it again to "My mistake, it's been been used by the Church."
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More rash judging…… This is absolutely preposterous! What you are really saying is that we have to accept Vigano’s sincerity without hesitation or question!
Garbage. I said quite clearly that no one says you have to like him or "trust" him. What I'm objecting to is the garbage slanderous charges that are being made to support and justify a prior dislike of him for other reasons.
I criticized him for being too soft on Ratzinger after he had died. He's not beyond criticism. But he is beyond having to be subjected to slanderous trash such as that which Miser in particular keeps hurling at him.
You don't have to consider him sincere without hesitation, but you also don't have the right to call him a gnostic Masonic pagan sun-worshipping Luciferian Satanist based on total garbage.
So what you present is your typical false dilemma or false dichotomy. Not having the right to slander him with crap is not the same as having to accept him as sincere "without hesitation".
Finally, charity does require assuming that he's sincere unless there's actual real (not fabricated crap) evidence brought to bear and/or there's potential harm to you or to the Church someone from what he's doing. No one has provided a shred of actual evidence, just insinuations, implications, and outright slanders ... nor has anyone ever demonstrated the cui bono that's required for any conspiracy theory.
So, if +Vigano is some kind of agent, what's he up to? What's he trying to do? Until you can come up with something even remotely plausible, there's no justification for you to attack him and make insinuations about him and even to publicly doubt his sincerity in a public forum. What you do in your mind is your own business between you and God. But when you start questioning him in public, you're also doing damage to his reputation, and impeding whatever good may be coming of his activities.
These posts here are no different than if you were to take a priest who was otherwise of good reputation and then begin to publicly insinuate that he's a pedophile because someone found a picture of him and Father Urrutigoity together. This is precisely what you're doing and it's a form of calumny, which has approached grave matter.
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The Chants of the Vatican Gradual
Dom Dominic Johner
Published in 1940
Nihil obstat and Imprimatur is listed after the title page
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/n7/mode/2up
Page 54
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/54/mode/2up
The great Light, the Light of Light, God of God, true Light of true Light, has come down to us. It transfigures the present day, makes it a holy day indeed. There is nothing blinding, nothing to repel the eye, in this fullness of light; enraptured we contemplate the divine Child, the while we adore Him as the sol invictus, the truly unconquerable Sun.
Sol Invictus
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I'll say it again, the devil has no right to that title.
Just as our Lady is the true Morning Star, our Lord is the true Sol Invictus.
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Thanks, trad123, for finding these. Yet certain types here will not desist from this slander.
When Miser first asserted that +Vigano is a Mason because he concluded his letters with "So may it be." (since it sounds like the Masonic "So mote it be."), I first pointed out that he writes in Italian, not English (so the "mote" is moot), and that the expression could very well be a translation of the equivalent of "Amen".
Then, like you're doing now with the Sol Invictus nonsense, we had a poster here provide pictures of a pre-Vatican II Italian Tridentine Missal, which ... translated Amen as the Italian equivalent of "So may it be" and also attest to the fact that a Traditional Italian priest concluded his semons with the expression.
Yet that evidence was also ignored, the accusation never retracted, but instead re-spammed over and over again after it was definitively debunked. So this evidence you have should put a final nail in the coffin of this latest slander, something tells me that it won't.
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I'll say it again, the devil has no right to that title.
Just as our Lady is the true Morning Star, our Lord is the true Sol Invictus.
Correct. And, if some Satanist decided to falsely appropriate it, the burden of proof is still on the accusers to demonstrate that it's how +Vigano was using it. I'm pretty sure that Satanists also invoke Satan as "Lord" and "Master" and so anyone now who refers to Christ as Lord and Master should be accused of Satanism, right?
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Nobody's forcing anyone to like or respect +Vigano. But this doesn't give people the right to slander him with these false insinuations ... especially in a public forum where anyone can find them using a search engine.
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The Chants of the Vatican Gradual
Dom Dominic Johner
Published in 1940
Nihil obstat and Imprimatur is listed after the title page
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/n7/mode/2up
Page 54
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/54/mode/2up
Sol Invictus
OK, *this* is what I wanted to see. It appears finding it was like searching for a needle in a haystack. Because of that fact, I think it was a fair question to ask and worth investigating (even if others took issue with it). Thankyou trad123 for finding it.
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Nobody's forcing anyone to like or respect +Vigano. But this doesn't give people the right to slander him with these false insinuations ... especially in a public forum where anyone can find them using a search engine.
Questioning him/his comments is not slander. There is nothing wrong to ask for evidence when something he says seems off. I never once called him a Mason nor anything else.
As QvD said, he is a NO cleric, and he's new to the "traditional" scene. As such, I will continue to question him and his comments even if you and others don't do so nor like it when others do.
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I never once called him a Mason nor anything else.
:laugh1: You repeatedly implied he was a satanist by saying "the Church has never used" the 'sol invictus' term (without any evidence) and then agreeing and supporting Miser's spam.
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The Chants of the Vatican Gradual
Dom Dominic Johner
Published in 1940
Nihil obstat and Imprimatur is listed after the title page
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/n7/mode/2up
Page 54
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/54/mode/2up
Sol Invictus
Good find Trad123! This was what I was looking for, thank you!
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:laugh1: You repeatedly implied he was a satanist by saying "the Church has never used" the 'sol invictus' term (without any evidence) and then agreeing and supporting Miser's spam.
This is garbage and you owe Vermont an apology.
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:laugh1: You repeatedly implied he was a satanist by saying "the Church has never used" the 'sol invictus' term (without any evidence) and then agreeing and supporting Miser's spam.
Just because I said the Church never used it doesn't mean I implied he was a Satanist. I even made a point that no one had to believe it was secret code to question its usage (so I didn't agree with her interpretation, but I did agree with her questioning it).
You have a habit of misinterpreting my words. Perhaps you should start worrying more about what YOU say about others than what others say about Vigano.
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This is garbage and you owe Vermont an apology.
Nah, it just shows his true colors.
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The Chants of the Vatican Gradual
Dom Dominic Johner
Published in 1940
Nihil obstat and Imprimatur is listed after the title page
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/n7/mode/2up
Page 54
https://archive.org/details/chantsofvaticang00john/page/54/mode/2up
Sol Invictus
So now this is absolute proof that the words "Sol Invictus" is a traditional way to name Our Lord? I'm not buying it.
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Thanks, trad123, for finding these. Yet certain types here will not desist from this slander.
When Miser first asserted that +Vigano is a Mason because he concluded his letters with "So may it be." (since it sounds like the Masonic "So mote it be."), I first pointed out that he writes in Italian, not English (so the "mote" is moot), and that the expression could very well be a translation of the equivalent of "Amen".
Then, like you're doing now with the Sol Invictus nonsense, we had a poster here provide pictures of a pre-Vatican II Italian Tridentine Missal, which ... translated Amen as the Italian equivalent of "So may it be" and also attest to the fact that a Traditional Italian priest concluded his semons with the expression.
Yet that evidence was also ignored, the accusation never retracted, but instead re-spammed over and over again after it was definitively debunked. So this evidence you have should put a final nail in the coffin of this latest slander, something tells me that it won't.
I have never stated that he is a Mason, so Lad is slandering me.
I pointed out that he is using their lingo
and I asked the question, "Why is he doing that?"
Amen can be translated simply as "AMEN" in Italian.
But instead he ended letters which were not prayers or even prayerful in language with
"So may it be".
Anyone can see what Google pulls up when you enter the words
"So may it be".
It's automatically associated with lodges and Wicca and an image search will reveal lots of merchandise with those words printed on it by these Luciferians. They really love that phrase. And as docuмented, lodges end their letters and communications that way.
So why wouldn't I ask questions about it?
The same with the use of Sol Invictus. Google it and see what comes up including images. It's not pretty!
Why wouldn't people ask questions about that?
Thank you Trad123 for finally providing some actual proof of its use.
This has been discussed for months and nobody could find a reference.
Instead Lad declared St Clement used it when St Clement actually used Sol Justitiae.
Then Lad insulted 2Vermont saying, "Can't you read?" When he hadn't even provided the statement in the first place either in this thread or even in the past as he claimed.
Strange behavior.
If we were to ask these questions about Francis would they get all bent out of shape like that? No.
People have posted photos of Francis with his hand in his shirt and wondered if he is doing the hidden hand Freemason pose and nobody gets all up in arms.
As Pius VI and Pius XI have stated we should take note of these things and call them out when we see them. They made it clear that our enemies use "dual use" language so they can always deny plausibility, but they said that shouldn't stop us from pointing it out.
But if people say they are noticing things which give them pause with Vigano pitchforks and emotional tirads ensue!
How dare you even "pause"? What the heck?
And those are hardly the only issues with Vigano that have been pointed out.
Again, the following things can be easily verified and should be causing alarm. They certainly would if Francis were doing these things.
The following issues with Vigano are all well docuмented, but just bringing them up means you are some kind of government plant? :confused:
That's what is insane.
1.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4a5sEE.jpg)
2. Participates at Zionist ecuмenical prayer rally and addresses crowd of Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants etc. as the children of Light. Why? Are they baptized or believers in Our Lord Jesus or Catholic? No. The only thing they have in common is they support Trump.
3. Writes letter to rabbi stating that Jєωs do not wait for their Messiah in vain when their Moshiach is the Antichrist.
4. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, (who has made clear his plan to infiltrate and take down the Church from within by strengthening Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) and Opus Dei people in Venice to plan the post covid era.
5. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, at the Russophile conference.
6. Shares Dugin's doctrine stating that Moscow is the Third Rome. This when Moscow's Putin has declared Communism came from Christianity and promotes venerating Stalin's relics and their Orthodox Church is run by KGB Kirill and is a heretical sect that promotes ecuмanism (Muslims worship the same god).
7. Lied to the Awaken America crowd by stating that the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump. This after 1000's of deaths and Trump demands credit and wants to go down as the Father of the Vaccine.
8. Prophecized that Trump would negotiate a peace deal that would create a "coexistence of equal nations". That phrase is a well known communist doctrine with ties to Lenin, Kruschev and the UN as well as the objectives of the NWO described by Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
9. Eulogizes Benedict by saying he is in Purgatory or Heaven. No chance of Hell for that notorious heretic. Says Benedict was liberal in his youth but conservative in his later years. 100% not true.
10. Declares three Katechons, none of which are the true papacy:
Trump, Benedict, and Moscow
12. Continues to support Trump at Zionist Awaken America Rallies. Continually declares that Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates etc. when he is clearly implementing their goals.
13. Tells the Zionist Awaken America "We Stand With Israel" crowd they are "the people standing with God". Which God is that?
Why would asking these questions make somebody a government agent? :laugh1:
The #1 Biggest red flag for me is that he LIED to MAGA rally by stating that we know the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump.
Um, we ALL know the pandemic farce took place under Trump, who oversaw Operation Warpspeed and wants to be known as the "Father of the Vaccine".
If somebody is willing to LIE to your face like that, why would you trust them after that?
Why haven't people learned to vet their own heroes as well as they vet their enemies? Haven't we learned?
-
So now this is absolute proof that the words "Sol Invictus" is a traditional way to name Our Lord? I'm not buying it.
:laugh1:
Sees book dated 1940 and an imprimatur. Responds: "I'm not buying it."
:jester: Is there a full moon tonight? Because this thread is full of lunatics.
-
So now this is absolute proof that the words "Sol Invictus" is a traditional way to name Our Lord? I'm not buying it.
Your opinion on matters like this is so unbalanced it’s next to worthless. Trad123 found proof that Sol Invictus was used for Our Lord, the point is moot.
-
:laugh1:
Sees book dated 1940 and an imprimatur. Responds: "I'm not buying it."
:jester: Is there a full moon tonight? Because this thread is full of lunatics.
As miser said in a recent post - it took a long time for someone to FINALLY find a reference for "Sol Invictus." So now you believe that it's a common traditional way to describe Our Lord? Since when did ANY traditional Catholic priest or bishop ever use these words to describe Our Lord? I did a search to see if Archbishop Lefebvre ever used this description, and I couldn't find anything. So what if some guy translates a Vatican chant, and uses to words "Sol Invictus." How do we know what the original German words were exactly?
In any case, those who believe that +Vigano is a traditional Catholic, go right ahead and think that if you want. I don't believe that he is.
-
Your opinion on matters like this is so unbalanced it’s next to worthless.
If "Sol Invictus" is a traditional way to describe Our Lord, can you find any reputable traditional Catholic priest or bishop who has used these words? Any at all?
-
If "Sol Invictus" is a traditional way to describe Our Lord, can you find any reputable traditional Catholic priest or bishop who has used these words? Any at all?
You don’t like Vigano because he’s showing some movement towards sedevacantism, right?
-
You don’t like Vigano because he’s showing some movement towards sedevacantism, right?
Wait, if he is, then wouldn't that mean that *we* wouldn't be questioning him? This is all soooooo confusing. ;):laugh1:
-
You don’t like Vigano because he’s showing some movement towards sedevacantism, right?
I had a problem with +Vigano before he aired his benevacantist views.
You're a sedevacantist, right? Have you asked your sedevacantist priest if he has ever heard of Our Lord being described as "Sol Invictus?"
Has any sedevacantist here asked their priest if he has ever heard of "Sol Invictus" being used to describe Our Lord?
-
As miser said in a recent post - it took a long time for someone to FINALLY find a reference for "Sol Invictus." So now you believe that it's a common traditional way to describe Our Lord? Since when did ANY traditional Catholic priest or bishop ever use these words to describe Our Lord? I did a search to see if Archbishop Lefebvre ever used this description, and I couldn't find anything. So what if some guy translates a Vatican chant, and uses to words "Sol Invictus." How do we know what the original German words were exactly?
In any case, those who believe that +Vigano is a traditional Catholic, go right ahead and think that if you want. I don't believe that he is.
Now you are an example of what Ladislaus has been raging against. His mistake was putting Vermont and I in the same kettle as you. He goes too far one way and you are too far in the other direction.
-
I had a problem with +Vigano before he aired his benevacantist views.
You're a sedevacantist, right? Have you asked your sedevacantist priest if he has ever heard of Our Lord being described as "Sol Invictus?"
I don’t need to ask a priest since Trad123 found sufficient evidence to support his position. Sorry, but references matter.
-
Wait, if he is, then wouldn't that mean that *we* wouldn't be questioning him? This is all soooooo confusing. ;):laugh1:
😂😂😂
-
I don’t need to ask a priest since Trad123 for sufficient evidence to support his position. Sorry, but references matter.
So it doesn't matter if traditional Catholic priests and bishops (either sedevacantist or non-sedevacantist) do not use this "Sol Invictus" to describe Our lord?
And it also doesn't matter that masons and other lucifarians do use this "Sol Invictus" to describe Our Lord (or their own goofy interpretation of Our lord)?
-
I have never stated that he is a Mason, so Lad is slandering me.
I pointed out that he is using their lingo
and I asked the question, "Why is he doing that?"
Amen can be translated simply as "AMEN" in Italian.
But instead he ended letters which were not prayers or even prayerful in language with
"So may it be".
Anyone can see what Google pulls up when you enter the words
"So may it be".
It's automatically associated with lodges and Wicca and an image search will reveal lots of merchandise with those words printed on it by these Luciferians. They really love that phrase. And as docuмented, lodges end their letters and communications that way.
So why wouldn't I ask questions about it?
The same with the use of Sol Invictus. Google it and see what comes up including images. It's not pretty!
Why wouldn't people ask questions about that?
Thank you Trad123 for finally providing some actual proof of its use.
This has been discussed for months and nobody could find a reference.
Instead Lad declared St Clement used it when St Clement actually used Sol Justitiae.
Then Lad insulted 2Vermont saying, "Can't you read?" When he hadn't even provided the statement in the first place either in this thread or even in the past as he claimed.
Strange behavior.
If we were to ask these questions about Francis would they get all bent out of shape like that? No.
People have posted photos of Francis with his hand in his shirt and wondered if he is doing the hidden hand Freemason pose and nobody gets all up in arms.
As Pius VI and Pius XI have stated we should take note of these things and call them out when we see them. They made it clear that our enemies use "dual use" language so they can always deny plausibility, but they said that shouldn't stop us from pointing it out.
But if people say they are noticing things which give them pause with Vigano pitchforks and emotional tirads ensue!
How dare you even "pause"? What the heck?
And those are hardly the only issues with Vigano that have been pointed out.
Again, the following things can be easily verified and should be causing alarm. They certainly would if Francis were doing these things.
The following issues with Vigano are all well docuмented, but just bringing them up means you are some kind of government plant? :confused:
That's what is insane.
1.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4a5sEE.jpg)
2. Participates at Zionist ecuмenical prayer rally and addresses crowd of Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants etc. as the children of Light. Why? Are they baptized or believers in Our Lord Jesus or Catholic? No. The only thing they have in common is they support Trump.
3. Writes letter to rabbi stating that Jєωs do not wait for their Messiah in vain when their Moshiach is the Antichrist.
4. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, (who has made clear his plan to infiltrate and take down the Church from within by strengthening Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) and Opus Dei people in Venice to plan the post covid era.
5. Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, at the Russophile conference.
6. Shares Dugin's doctrine stating that Moscow is the Third Rome. This when Moscow's Putin has declared Communism came from Christianity and promotes venerating Stalin's relics and their Orthodox Church is run by KGB Kirill and is a heretical sect that promotes ecuмanism (Muslims worship the same god).
7. Lied to the Awaken America crowd by stating that the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump. This after 1000's of deaths and Trump demands credit and wants to go down as the Father of the Vaccine.
8. Prophecized that Trump would negotiate a peace deal that would create a "coexistence of equal nations". That phrase is a well known communist doctrine with ties to Lenin, Kruschev and the UN as well as the objectives of the NWO described by Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
9. Eulogizes Benedict by saying he is in Purgatory or Heaven. No chance of Hell for that notorious heretic. Says Benedict was liberal in his youth but conservative in his later years. 100% not true.
10. Declares three Katechons, none of which are the true papacy:
Trump, Benedict, and Moscow
12. Continues to support Trump at Zionist Awaken America Rallies. Continually declares that Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates etc. when he is clearly implementing their goals.
13. Tells the Zionist Awaken America "We Stand With Israel" crowd they are "the people standing with God". Which God is that?
Why would asking these questions make somebody a government agent? :laugh1:
The #1 Biggest red flag for me is that he LIED to MAGA rally by stating that we know the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump.
Um, we ALL know the pandemic farce took place under Trump, who oversaw Operation Warpspeed and wants to be known as the "Father of the Vaccine".
If somebody is willing to LIE to your face like that, why would you trust them after that?
Why haven't people learned to vet their own heroes as well as they vet their enemies? Haven't we learned?
As for Cui Bono,
why would Vigano lie to cover for Trump?
Who does that benefit?
And people should Google the words "coexistence of equal nations"
and learn more about that.
Vigano used those words to describe a peace deal that he prophesizes Trump will negotiate one day.
Hint: It's not as nice as it sounds. :/
-
Vigano has used this LOADED phrase several times but here is just one example:
"The defeat of the deep state by the healthy forces within the United States of America will be the premise for a peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. This is why Donald Trump was ousted by electoral fraud from the Presidency of the United States"
Vigano, June 17th 2022
Peaceful Coexistence — Two Diametrically Opposed Policies
https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/docuмents/polemic/peaceful.htm
(https://i.imgur.com/hraLDOQ.png)
-
“The great Light, the Light of Light, God of God, true Light of true Light, has come down to us. It transfigures the present day, makes it a holy day indeed. There is nothing blinding, nothing to repel the eye, in this fullness of light; enraptured we contemplate the divine Child, the while we adore Him as the sol invictus, the truly unconquerable Sun.”
(Alleluia Verse - Christmas Day - Third Mass)
by Johner, Dominicus, 1874-1955; St. John's Abbey (Collegeville, Minn.)
Kudos to trad123 for finding this. Unfortunately, though the title rightly belongs to Christ, and indeed it does, it’s going to be difficult to erase the connection of that title as used by freemasons, etc. May the True Son of God be Glorified.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/ma8o2Q0.jpg)
Happy Feast of All Saints!
-
His Excellency Archbishop Carlo Vigano
Fr. James Altman
Fr. Paul Kramer
Dr. Ed Mazza
Ann Barnhardt
Elizabeth Yore
Introducing Trad Inc., aka "do nuthin Inc.," Next Generation.
The SSPX and the SV's blew it. Because of their endless arguing, compromising, lying, usurping, and suicidal mitosis, Trad Inc. Gen I, lies in a smoking pile of inconsequential rubbish.
Enter in the Next Generation. It shall pour in upon us "from the North," from the barren wastelands of novus ordo nuttiness.
New faces, old game: Prop up the cancerous novus ordo, while culling even more of the herd out of integral Catholicism.
Nihil sub sole novum, nec valet quisquam dicere: Ecce hoc recens est: jam enim praecessit in saeculis quae fuerunt ante nos.
-
Vigano has used this LOADED phrase several times but here is just one example:
"The defeat of the deep state by the healthy forces within the United States of America will be the premise for a peaceful coexistence of nations, without there being one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate the others. This is why Donald Trump was ousted by electoral fraud from the Presidency of the United States"
Vigano, June 17th 2022
Peaceful Coexistence — Two Diametrically Opposed Policies
https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/docuмents/polemic/peaceful.htm
(https://i.imgur.com/hraLDOQ.png)
Miser, can you explain more about the "peaceful coexistence of nations" that +Vigano talks about? The link you provided doesn't work on my browser.
While I think I can understand what +Vigano means by "one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate others." (meaning the hegemony as practiced by the U.S.?), I don't get what he means by "healthy forces with in the U.S.A. (is there such a thing?) will be the premise for a peaceful coexistence of nations...."
How can there be a peaceful coexistence of nations, unless those nations accept Christ the King as understood by Catholic tradition? And I have to wonder how any so-called healthy forces in the U.S. are going to create that end. Does he mean that this ecuмenical mix of various sects (and some Catholics) are going to defeat the deep state?
-
Miser, can you explain more about the "peaceful coexistence of nations" that +Vigano talks about? The link you provided doesn't work on my browser.
While I think I can understand what +Vigano means by "one nation that considers itself superior and legitimized to subjugate others." (meaning the hegemony as practiced by the U.S.?), I don't get what he means by "healthy forces with in the U.S.A. (is there such a thing?) will be the premise for a peaceful coexistence of nations...."
How can there be a peaceful coexistence of nations, unless those nations accept Christ the King as understood by Catholic tradition? And I have to wonder how any so-called healthy forces in the U.S. are going to create that end. Does he mean that this ecuмenical mix of various sects (and some Catholics) are going to defeat the deep state?
I don't know what he means, but I do know
"peaceful coexistence of EQUAL nations" is Marxist ideology and the plan of the United Nations.
How does Vigano know that Trump will bring this Utopian plan to fruition? :confused:
It sounds like the nwo.
Trump's hero, Albert Pike, planned for three world wars to bring about so much chaos that people would be ready for
the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr under Lucifer. (whom they call god so Christians are deceived)
(https://i.imgur.com/p0NzLc2.png)
The United Nations has its own version of "Christ" the king (really Lucifer) and wants to bring about this peaceful coexistence of equal nations.
The Christ
https://www.lucistrust.org/resources/the_christ
The Esoteric Meaning of Lucifer
https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/talks_and_articles/the_esoteric_meaning_lucifer
Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ also promotes the term: Peaceful Coexistence with those famous bumper stickers:
https://freemasoninformation.com/bee-hive/coexist/
What does it all mean?
I don't know. Just noticing things. Asking questions.
I do know that Our Lord Jesus Christ said this:
Luke 12:51
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
(https://i.imgur.com/DIxNiZN.png)
-
I don't know what he means, but I do know
"peaceful coexistence of EQUAL nations" is Marxist ideology and the plan of the United Nations.
How does Vigano know that Trump will bring this Utopian plan to fruition? :confused:
It sounds like the nwo.
Trump's hero, Albert Pike, planned for three world wars to bring about so much chaos that people would be ready for
the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr under Lucifer. (whom they call god so Christians are deceived)
(https://i.imgur.com/p0NzLc2.png)
The United Nations has its own version of "Christ" the king (really Lucifer) and wants to bring about this peaceful coexistence of equal nations.
The Christ
https://www.lucistrust.org/resources/the_christ
The Esoteric Meaning of Lucifer
https://www.lucistrust.org/arcane_school/talks_and_articles/the_esoteric_meaning_lucifer
Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ also promotes the term: Peaceful Coexistence with those famous bumper stickers:
https://freemasoninformation.com/bee-hive/coexist/
What does it all mean?
I don't know. Just noticing things. Asking questions.
I do know that Our Lord Jesus Christ said this:
Luke 12:51
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
(https://i.imgur.com/DIxNiZN.png)
Thanks for the info, Miser. Yes, the United Nations/Lucis Trust concept of Jesus Christ is so ridiculous, and of course has no resemblance to Our lord at all.
In the second link you posted, the words "peaceful coexistence" is used by freemasons. I wasn't aware of that. And of the course the goofy "coexist" image is full of new-age occult meaning. Doesn't +Vigano realize that these phrases that he uses are just not Catholic? He might not realize that.
Regarding +Vigano's use of the words "peaceful coexistence," I did a google search to see of Pope Francis has used these words, and I did quickly find three separate instances where Francis has used the words "peaceful coexistence." I haven't yet done a search to see if any traditional Catholic priests or bishops have used these words in a positive manner. Though I doubt that any have done so.
-
Thanks for the info, Miser. Yes, the United Nations/Lucis Trust concept of Jesus Christ is so ridiculous, and of course has no resemblance to Our lord at all.
In the second link you posted, the words "peaceful coexistence" is used by freemasons. I wasn't aware of that. And of the course the goofy "coexist" image is full of new-age occult meaning. Doesn't +Vigano realize that these phrases that he uses are just not Catholic? He might not realize that.
Regarding +Vigano's use of the words "peaceful coexistence," I did a google search to see of Pope Francis has used these words, and I did quickly find three separate instances where Francis has used the words "peaceful coexistence." I haven't yet done a search to see if any traditional Catholic priests or bishops have used these words in a positive manner. Though I doubt that any have done so.
You are correct. This is the problem I have with some of +Viganos words and actions. It seems like he is trying to group all the "conservative" minded people to co-exist and unite to take down the "deep state, satanists." This goes against Catholic teaching.
Pope St. Pius X condemned the French Sillon for this type of thing. Trying to fight a moral evil on a natural level.
The only way to triumph against evil is in the Catholic Church, her sacraments, grace and devotion the the Mother of God
-
You are correct. This is the problem I have with some of +Viganos words and actions. It seems like he is trying to group all the "conservative" minded people to co-exist and unite to take down the "deep state, satanists." This goes against Catholic teaching.
Pope St. Pius X condemned the French Sillon for this type of thing. Trying to fight a moral evil on a natural level.
The only way to triumph against evil is in the Catholic Church, her sacraments, grace and devotion the the Mother of God
Interesting. I had to look up the French Sillon:
Le Sillon ("The Furrow", or "The Path") was a French political and religious movement founded by Marc Sangnier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Sangnier) (1873–1950) which existed from 1894 to 1910. It aimed to bring Catholicism into a greater conformity with French Republican and socialist ideals, in order to provide an alternative to Marxism and other anticlerical labour movements (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_movement).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sillon
Left, right, left, right
the Hegelian dialectic at play
always moving towards "progress"
and away from true Catholicism.
(https://i.imgur.com/TDdMo2v.png)
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Thanks for the info, Miser. Yes, the United Nations/Lucis Trust concept of Jesus Christ is so ridiculous, and of course has no resemblance to Our lord at all.
In the second link you posted, the words "peaceful coexistence" is used by freemasons. I wasn't aware of that. And of the course the goofy "coexist" image is full of new-age occult meaning. Doesn't +Vigano realize that these phrases that he uses are just not Catholic? He might not realize that.
Regarding +Vigano's use of the words "peaceful coexistence," I did a google search to see of Pope Francis has used these words, and I did quickly find three separate instances where Francis has used the words "peaceful coexistence." I haven't yet done a search to see if any traditional Catholic priests or bishops have used these words in a positive manner. Though I doubt that any have done so.
Yep. Again, just noticing things.
Hope I don't get killed or anything for noticing things.
(https://i.imgur.com/8db6SM2.png)
From a quick comparison of Masonic belief and Catholic belief:
Mason’s View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. According to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, a person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.
https://brooklynirish.org/2018/11/10/what-is-free-masonry-and-what-do-free-masons-believe/
(https://i.imgur.com/fXUFDaB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/z9jMq6K.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SWTSluQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0VRWyVU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KHCHqsh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/mvcx38N.png)
From: https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/
Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper: “Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/)
June 8, 2020
Naturalism under the guise of conservative Catholicism…
Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper:
“Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump
(https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/carlo-maria-vigano-screenshot.png?resize=450%2C367&ssl=1)
The former Vatican nuncio to the United States, “Archbishop” Carlo Maria Viganò (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bvigano.html), has been hiding at an undisclosed location since August of 2018, after he publicly accused “Pope” Francis of having known about and covered up (http://novusordowatch.org/2018/08/vatican-archbishop-accuses-francis-cover-up-sex-abuse-mccarrick/) sɛҳuąƖ abuse perpetrated by “Cardinal” Theodore McCarrick.
On June 6, 2020, Fr. Viganò — he’s a valid priest but not a bishop (http://novusordowatch.org/2018/06/unholy-orders-50-years-invalid-ordinations/) — released a 3-page open letter to U.S. President Donald Trump, in which he encourages him to stay the course against malicious, infernal forces trying to overturn the current social order and impose what amounts to a globalist secular Marxist tyranny. The letter has been hailed by Viganò’s usual supporters — Life Site, The Remnant, Catholic Family News, etc. — and has been circulated widely around the internet.
So far, so good. The problem, however, is that in his letter Vigano promotes dangerous and significant theological errors that apparently none of his cheerleaders has picked up on, even though they are promoted in fairly plain sight.
In what follows, we shall provide a critical commentary on “Abp.” Vigano’s letter. But first, some links:
- Full Text: Letter of Carlo Maria Viganò to President Donald Trump (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/archbishop-vigano-writes-open-letter-to-president-trump-full-text/)
- PDF version of Vigano’s letter on original stationery (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Letter-President-Trump-1.pdf)
- Commentary by retired Novus Ordo bishop René Gracida: ‘reads like a letter from a future Pope’ (https://abyssum.org/2020/06/06/here-is-a-remarkable-open-letter-sent-to-president-donald-trump-by-archbishop-carlo-maria-vigano-the-former-apostolic-nuncio-from-the-holy-see-to-the-united-states-of-america-the-letter-is-so-remar/)
- Commentary by The Remnant‘s Michael Matt: “Catholics need to get the Archbishop’s urgent message through to Donald Trump” (https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4926-open-letter-to-donald-trump-former-u-s-apostolic-nuncio-archbishop-vigano-stands-with-president-against-the-mob)
- Commentary by Catholic Family News’ Matt Gaspers: “Catholic Family News stands with Archbishop Viganò and applauds his extraordinary letter” (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/06/06/archbishop-vigano-to-president-trump-beware-the-deep-church-as-well-as-the-deep-state/)
- Commentary by Taylor Marshall: “a wonderful letter… written like an Apostle” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4upHPYKtqE)
- Commentary by Giuseppe Pellegrino at Church Militant: “a light shining in darkness” (https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/thank-you-archbishop-vigano)
Before we proceed, a brief clarification is in order: Some people will want to dismiss our critique by rashly claiming that it has its origin in a mere desire to oppose Vigano because he is not a sedevacantist. That is definitely not the case. If that were our only objection, we would first commend him for a well-written letter and then get on his case about not being a sedevacantist. No, the reason for being critical of his open letter to the president is quite simply that it is imbued with a most dangerous heresy, a heresy so obvious that it is greatly alarming to see that those who consider themselves the “remnant” of traditional Catholicism failed to notice it: We are speaking of the heresy of Naturalism, as will be explained.
Let us begin now with an examination of Fr. Viganò’s letter (all italics are Vigano’s; all underlining is ours):
In recent months we have been witnessing the formation of two opposing sides that I would call Biblical: the children of light and the children of darkness. The children of light constitute the most conspicuous part of humanity, while the children of darkness represent an absolute minority. And yet the former are the object of a sort of discrimination which places them in a situation of moral inferiority with respect to their adversaries, who often hold strategic positions in government, in politics, in the economy and in the media. In an apparently inexplicable way, the good are held hostage by the wicked and by those who help them either out of self-interest or fearfulness.
(“Abp.” Carlo M. Viganò, Open Letter to President Donald Trump (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/archbishop-vigano-writes-open-letter-to-president-trump-full-text/), June 7, 2020)
Referencing Sacred Scripture, “Abp.” Viganò divides humanity into two groups: the good and the bad, the “children of light” and the “children of darkness.” That distinction is justified — the problem is how Viganò defines these groups. Given what he says in the above paragraph, the author seems to consider all those to be Children of Light who are of good will, as though nothing more were required to be actually good. Vigano fails to draw the absolutely essential distinction between people who are naturally good and those who are supernaturally good. Yes, it is an essential distinction since, claiming to be “biblical” about it, he is introducing divine revelation into the topic and thus claims to be teaching revealed truth.
In John 12:36, our Blessed Lord instructs His disciples: “Whilst you have the light, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light.” Christ Himself being the Light of the World (see Jn 1:4; Jn 8:12; 1 Jn 1:5), those who follow Him are rightly called the Children of Light, and are exhorted to walk in a way that befits them:
For know you this and understand, that no fornicator, or unclean, or covetous person (which is a serving of idols), hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. Be ye not therefore partakers with them. For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light. For the fruit of the light is in all goodness, and justice, and truth; proving what is well pleasing to God: And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of. But all things that are reproved, are made manifest by the light; for all that is made manifest is light.
(Ephesians 5:5-13)
But who are the true followers of our Lord? They are those who have joined His supernatural society on earth, the Roman Catholic Church. That Church alone is “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15), if we’re going to be biblical about it, and it alone Christ has established as the congregation of the faithful. Hence neither public heretics nor schismatics can be a part of her: Schismatics are not congregated and heretics are not faithful. “And, indeed, there is one true and holy religion on the earth founded and established by Christ the Lord Himself,” Pope Pius IX teaches. “It is called Catholic, Apostolic, Roman by name, the fruitful and nurturing parent of all virtues, the expeller of vices, and the liberator of souls, the touchstone of true happiness” (Allocution Iamdudum Cernimus (https://novusordowatch.org/pius9-iamdudum-cernimus/)).
Granted, mere membership in the Church is not sufficient for salvation; but it is necessary to be either a member of the Church or, at the very least, to be joined to the Body of the Church by an efficacious desire through Faith, hope, and charity (see Holy Office Letter Suprema Haec Sacra (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1467), Aug. 8, 1949). Hence the Church is truly called the the “Ark of Salvation” (Pope Pius IX, Allocution Singulari Quadam (http://novusordowatch.org/pius9-singulari-quadam/)), such that “whosoever turns his back on the Church cannot be near to Christ” (Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Rerum Novarum (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13rerum.htm), n. 30).
“Abp.” Vigano leaves all of this supernatural truth out of account and accepts the Naturalist lie that all those who “mean well” are the Children of Light. In other words, he promotes the idea that regardless of their religion or personal sinfulness — that is, regardless of whether they possess Faith, hope, or charity — all “good people” are on God’s side, are part of the Church, are part of His Kingdom. What is this but a conservative version of “all nice people go to Heaven”?
Vigano’s erroneous theology results in him making the foolish declaration that “the children of light constitute the most conspicuous part of humanity”! While it may be true that they are conspicuous (cf. Mt 5:14-16), they are definitely not the majority, which is what Vigano appears to imply, since he immediately contrasts what he says with the Children of Darkness being “an absolute minority”: “How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” (Mt 7:14).
Continuing now with the letter:
These two sides, which have a Biblical nature, follow the clear separation between the offspring of the Woman and the offspring of the Serpent. On the one hand there are those who, although they have a thousand defects and weaknesses, are motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work, to give prosperity to their homeland, to help the needy, and, in obedience to the Law of God, to merit the Kingdom of Heaven. On the other hand, there are those who serve themselves, who do not hold any moral principles, who want to demolish the family and the nation, exploit workers to make themselves unduly wealthy, foment internal divisions and wars, and accuмulate power and money: for them the fallacious illusion of temporal well-being will one day – if they do not repent – yield to the terrible fate that awaits them, far from God, in eternal damnation.
(“Abp.” Carlo M. Viganò, Open Letter to President Donald Trump (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/archbishop-vigano-writes-open-letter-to-president-trump-full-text/), June 7, 2020)
Here Fr. Vigano confirms his intent to be teaching revealed truth, and he fails miserably. The offspring of the Woman (cf. Gen 3:15; Jn 19:26-27; Apoc 12:1) are those supernaturally regenerated in grace — “in Christ a new creature” (2 Cor 5:17), for which the virtue of Faith is absolutely indispensable: “But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him” (Heb 11:6). But there is only one true Faith, which is the Roman Catholic Faith: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity” (Athanasian Creed; Denz. 39 (http://denzinger.patristica.net/denzinger/#n1)).
Yes, there are mitigating factors with regard to those who are in invincible ignorance. However, such factors, while diminishing guilt, cannot dispense with the absolute necessity of the virtue of Faith for salvation; although not all dogmas must be known and believed explicitly (cf. Pope Clement XI, Response of the Holy Office to the Bishop of Quebec; Denz. 1349a (http://denzinger.patristica.net/denzinger/#n1300)). As Pope Pius IX taught, “The arms of the Lord are not shortened, and the gifts of the heavenly grace are never wanting to those who sincerely wish for them, and who beg for the assistance of that light” (Allocution Singulari Quadam (http://novusordowatch.org/pius9-singulari-quadam/)).
Thus it is utterly absurd for “Abp.” Vigano to suggest that, essentially, all who are not malicious are “motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work, to give prosperity to their homeland, to help the needy, and, in obedience to the Law of God, to merit the Kingdom of Heaven”, albeit with “a thousand defects and weaknesses.” This is Pelagianism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm)! By entirely leaving out of account the necessity of divine grace and the supernatural virtues of Faith, hope, and charity, Fr. Vigano is promoting a dangerous Naturalism that is at the root of the very Antichrist movement he is supposedly trying to oppose!
Rightly did Fr. Frederick Faber (http://novusordowatch.org/2019/11/what-will-make-antichrist-so-deceptive/) warn us:
We must beware then of dangers from within. We must be upon our guard even against catholic books, periodicals, journals, and pamphlets, however specious they may be. Our Blessed Redeemer said of the false prophets of the last days (St. Matt. xxiv. 24.) that they should “deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Now we must remember, that if all the manifestly good men were on one side, and all the manifestly bad men on the other, there would be no danger of any one, least of all, the elect, being deceived by lying wonders. It is the good men, good once, we must hope good still, who are to do the work of Antichrist, and so sadly to crucify afresh the Lord whom they do more than profess to love. Bear in mind this feature of the last days, that their deceitfulness arises from good men being on the wrong side.
(Rev. Frederick William Faber, Devotion to the Church (https://books.google.com/books?id=eA91hh6luNgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false), 2nd ed. [London: Richardson and Son, 1861], p. 27. Available in hardcopy here (https://miqcenter.com/products/devotion-to-the-church-ph7175?variant=39003448071).)
Let us repeat: It is a very grave error to think that all who are of good will — who work for a living, strive not to hurt anyone, and help the poor — are the spiritual progeny of the Blessed Mother, are the Children of Light, are part of the Kingdom of God. It is heresy! That is the sort of theology one expects to get from “Pope” Francis, but not from a man who has recently been profiling himself as the orthodox antidote to Francis, even to the point of rightly calling into question the Second Vatican Council (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2019/09/11/more-bombshells-from-vigano-masonic-infiltration-vatican-ii-and-the-jesuits/). What is going on here?!
Vigano continues:
In society, Mr. President, these two opposing realities co-exist as eternal enemies, just as God and Satan are eternal enemies. And it appears that the children of darkness – whom we may easily identify with the deep state which you wisely oppose and which is fiercely waging war against you in these days – have decided to show their cards, so to speak, by now revealing their plans. They seem to be so certain of already having everything under control that they have laid aside that circuмspection that until now had at least partially concealed their true intentions. The investigations already under way will reveal the true responsibility of those who managed the Covid emergency not only in the area of health care but also in politics, the economy, and the media. We will probably find that in this colossal operation of social engineering there are people who have decided the fate of humanity, arrogating to themselves the right to act against the will of citizens and their representatives in the governments of nations.
Here the Unholy See’s former nuncio to the United States narrows his definition of “Children of Darkness” further and identifies them with the American deep state (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/deep-state). By the laws of logic, this would mean that whoever isn’t part of the deep state is part of the Kingdom of God, since whoever isn’t in one camp is necessarily in the other. Can it get any more absurd?
Continuing with the open letter:
We will also discover that the riots in these days were provoked by those who, seeing that the virus is inevitably fading and that the social alarm of the pandemic is waning, necessarily have had to provoke civil disturbances, because they would be followed by repression which, although legitimate, could be condemned as an unjustified aggression against the population. The same thing is also happening in Europe, in perfect synchrony. It is quite clear that the use of street protests is instrumental to the purposes of those who would like to see someone elected in the upcoming presidential elections who embodies the goals of the deep state and who expresses those goals faithfully and with conviction. It will not be surprising if, in a few months, we learn once again that hidden behind these acts of vandalism and violence there are those who hope to profit from the dissolution of the social order so as to build a world without freedom: Solve et Coagula [dissolve and coagulate], as the Masonic adage teaches.
Although it may seem disconcerting, the opposing alignments I have described are also found in religious circles. There are faithful Shepherds who care for the flock of Christ, but there are also mercenary infidels who seek to scatter the flock and hand the sheep over to be devoured by ravenous wolves. It is not surprising that these mercenaries are allies of the children of darkness and hate the children of light: just as there is a deep state, there is also a deep church that betrays its duties and forswears its proper commitments before God. Thus the Invisible Enemy, whom good rulers fight against in public affairs, is also fought against by good shepherds in the ecclesiastical sphere. It is a spiritual battle, which I spoke about in my recent Appeal which was published on May 8.
Here Viganò is creating even greater confusion. Addressing a man who is a Presbyterian, he speaks rather generically about “the flock of Christ” and about “faithful Shepherds”, “mercenary infidels”, and “ravenous wolves”. Instead of giving these terms clear and orthodox Catholic definitions, however, he gives them a political spin by making them the spiritual equivalents of the deep state, “allies of the children of darkness [who] hate the children of light”.
This is just theological chaos. Is Fr. Vigano saying, for instance, that a Presbyterian pastor who is “motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work”, etc. is therefore a true shepherd of the flock of Christ? Is he out of his mind?! Or, if that’s not what means, isn’t that nevertheless what President Trump must understand him to be saying?
The way Vigano defines and separates the good and the bad is not at all biblical but entirely Naturalistic, based on natural considerations and not on supernatural divine revelation and grace (cf. Mt 7:21-23).
Continuing with the letter:
For the first time, the United States has in you a President who courageously defends the right to life, who is not ashamed to denounce the persecution of Christians throughout the world, who speaks of Jesus Christ and the right of citizens to freedom of worship. Your participation in the March for Life, and more recently your proclamation of the month of April as National Child Abuse Prevention Month, are actions that confirm which side you wish to fight on. And I dare to believe that both of us are on the same side in this battle, albeit with different weapons.
For this reason, I believe that the attack to which you were subjected after your visit to the National Shrine of Saint John Paul II is part of the orchestrated media narrative which seeks not to fight racism and bring social order, but to aggravate dispositions; not to bring justice, but to legitimize violence and crime; not to serve the truth, but to favor one political faction. And it is disconcerting that there are Bishops – such as those whom I recently denounced – who, by their words, prove that they are aligned on the opposing side. They are subservient to the deep state, to globalism, to aligned thought, to the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr which they invoke ever more frequently in the name of a universal brotherhood which has nothing Christian about it, but which evokes the Masonic ideals of those want to dominate the world by driving God out of the courts, out of schools, out of families, and perhaps even out of churches.
This is fair enough, but Fr. Vigano should be aware of the fact that the American constitution is based on Masonic ideas — such as religious liberty, Indifferentism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm), and freedom of speech. These are not Catholic notions but ideas condemned by the Popes (for example, by Gregory XVI (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/greg16/g16mirar.htm) and Pius IX (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm)), so it makes little sense to warn a Protestant President of the United States about Masonic ideals.
There is no question that President Trump has done a considerable amount to significantly reduce the number of abortions in the United States in the long run. However, it must also be pointed out — simply because it too is part of the objective record — that the same president does not defend (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-alabama-abortion-law-2019-5) an unborn child’s right not to be murdered if the little one was conceived in the wrong circuмstances or if his presence in the womb accidentally endangers the life of his mother. Then dismembering the baby is OK, he believes. Let’s just keep that in mind before proclaiming Donald Trump “a President who courageously defends the right to life.” He does courageously defend the right to life of most, but not of all, innocent people.
Viganò ends his open letter as follows:
The American people are mature and have now understood how much the mainstream media does not want to spread the truth but seeks to silence and distort it, spreading the lie that is useful for the purposes of their masters. However, it is important that the good – who are the majority – wake up from their sluggishness and do not accept being deceived by a minority of dishonest people with unavowable purposes. It is necessary that the good, the children of light, come together and make their voices heard. What more effective way is there to do this, Mr. President, than by prayer, asking the Lord to protect you, the United States, and all of humanity from this enormous attack of the Enemy? Before the power of prayer, the deceptions of the children of darkness will collapse, their plots will be revealed, their betrayal will be shown, their frightening power will end in nothing, brought to light and exposed for what it is: an infernal deception.
Mr. President, my prayer is constantly turned to the beloved American nation, where I had the privilege and honor of being sent by Pope Benedict XVI as Apostolic Nuncio. In this dramatic and decisive hour for all of humanity, I am praying for you and also for all those who are at your side in the government of the United States. I trust that the American people are united with me and you in prayer to Almighty God.
United against the Invisible Enemy of all humanity, I bless you and the First Lady, the beloved American nation, and all men and women of good will.
Here the former nuncio doubles down on his identification of the Children of Light with “the good”, who are all those, we are told, who reject the infernal globalist program of the deep state.
Vigano’s identification of basically all who mean well with the Children of Light spoken of in the Bible is an utter theological nightmare. We are not talking about a simple gaffe, the mere result of a quibble about a theological nuance. No, this is a huge heresy with tremendous practical repercussions, as it indirectly confirms all good-willed non-Catholics in their errors and promotes a sort of “generic religion of the good-willed” or a “generic Christianity” at best. But that is a false Christianity, because there is only one true Christianity, and that is the Roman Catholic religion, of which “Abp.” Vigano considers himself a representative. Ironically, this Indifferentism promoted by Vigano is one of the core doctrines of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.
To summarize the Catholic position on the Children of Light vs. the Children of Darkness, we turn to Pope Pius IX:
Our most beloved Redeemer, Christ the Lord, willed as you well know, venerable brothers, to deliver all men from the captivity of the devil, free them from the yoke of sin, call them from darkness into his wonderful light and be their salvation. When he had blotted out the handwriting of the decree against us, fastening it to the cross, he formed and established the Catholic Church, won by his blood, as the one “Church of the living God,” the one “kingdom of heaven,” “the city set on a hill,” “one flock,” and “one body” steadfast and alive with “one Spirit,” one faith, one hope, one love joined and firmly held together by the same bonds of sacraments, religion and doctrine. He further provided his Church with leaders whom he chose and called. In addition, he decreed that the Church will endure as long as the world, embrace all peoples and nations of the whole world, and that whoever accepts his divine religion and grace and perseveres to the end will attain the glory of eternal salvation.
(Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Amantissimus (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9amant2.htm), n. 1; underlining added.)
Sadly, “Abp.” Vigano communicated none of this in his open letter to President Trump. Instead, he gravely distorted the supernatural truth about who are the Children of Light and who are the Children of Darkness. It is nothing short of alarming that this letter has been hailed by many semi-traditionalists as a terrific missive from a true ally in the cause of truth and salvation.
At The Remnant, Michael Matt encouraged his readership (https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4926-open-letter-to-donald-trump-former-u-s-apostolic-nuncio-archbishop-vigano-stands-with-president-against-the-mob) to share the open letter with as many as possible, commenting: “…we the Catholic faithful—the Catholic clans—must get the word out that we stand with Christ the King….” Standing with Christ the King is a most noble goal, but “Abp.” Vigano, for his part, did no such thing in his letter. He mentioned the Holy Name of Jesus Christ exactly once, telling President Trump: “For the first time, the United States has in you a President who courageously defends the right to life, who is not ashamed to denounce the persecution of Christians throughout the world, who speaks of Jesus Christ and the right of citizens to freedom of worship.”
It is unclear, therefore, just how promoting Fr. Vigano’s letter would be a way to stand with Christ the King, for His Kingship was certainly not promoted or defended in that letter. Instead, we heard a lot about the need to oppose the deep state and the deep church, about freedom of worship, and about how all those who make an honest living and don’t want to convert society into a globalist hellhole are all Children of Light working for the Kingdom of God. The word “grace” was entirely absent. The letter promoted a lowest-common-denoninator “Christianity” at best, but certainly not the Catholic Social Kingship of Christ, as laid out by Pope Pius XI in 1925 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11prima.htm).
At Catholic Family News, Matt Gaspers took Vigano’s paradigm of the two opposing camps — Children of Light vs. Children of Darkness — and connected it to what St. Louis de Montfort spoke about in his phenomenal work True Devotion to Mary:
God has not only set an enmity, but enmities, not simply between Mary and the devil, but between the race of the holy Virgin and the race of the devil; that is to say, God has set enmities, antipathies and secret hatreds, between the true children and servants of Mary and the children and slaves of the devil.…
But the power of Mary over all the devils will especially shine forth in the latter times, when Satan will lay his snares against her heel: that is to say, her humble slaves and her poor children, whom she will raise up to make war against him.
(St. Louis de Montfort, True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary (https://archive.org/details/truedevotiontobl00grig), rev. ed. [Bay Shore, NY: The Montfort Fathers, 1946], n. 54, pp. 36-37)
Thus Gaspers fully adopts Vigano’s conflation of the good-willed people of the world, regardless of their religion or moral lives, with the biblical Children of Light who are part of the Kingdom of God. He even one-ups Vigano by calling them not only, somewhat obscurely, the “offspring of the Woman” but “the race of the holy Virgin” and “the true children and servants of Mary”!
HELLO…?!
Vigano’s letter to Trump, however laudable it may be in other respects, is a manifesto of Naturalism and Indifferentism. Our first loyalty must be to Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church, which is a supernatural society of the true followers of Our Lord, and not a natural amalgam of all who mean well:
Now there are three necessary societies, distinct from one another and yet harmoniously combined by God, into which man is born: two, namely the family and civil society, belong to the natural order; the third, the Church, to the supernatural order … into which man is born when through Baptism he reaches the divine life of grace…
(Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Divini Illius Magistri (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11rappr.htm), nn. 11, 13; underlining added.)
Thus, while “Abp.” Viganò is getting kudos from all sides among the “traditional Catholics” of the Remnant stripe, he will get a harsh rebuke here. His open letter to President Trump was surely consoling to the intended recipient on a natural level, but on the much more significant supernatural plane, it accomplished absolutely nothing positive, not for the president and not for anyone else who read it.
Not once did Vigano even hint at President Trump’s need to convert to the only True Faith. This could have been done very kindly and diplomatically, to at least plant a seed. Instead, the former nuncio misled the president in this most serious matter, putting his soul in even greater danger than before. Viganò made it seem as though Trump was already fighting the battle of God against Satan and therefore, in a sense, was the ultimate representative of the Children of Light in civil society. And while God may indeed be using President Trump to ensure continued freedom for the Church and to prevent a complete social takeover of the forces of hell, this does not make him a member of the Church, of the Kingdom of God, or of the Children of Light. To suggest otherwise is to commit a grave uncharity against our current president.
Donald Trump is in great need of our prayers, for many reasons. The most important one pertains to the status of his own soul: He is in desperate need of the theological virtues of Faith, hope, and charity, which can only be had through the assistance of divine grace. Tragically, none of this was communicated to him in “Abp.” Carlo Viganò’s letter. “Satan everywhere combats and everywhere seeks to eliminate the Supernatural Life of Grace, participation in the Life of the Blessed Trinity”, Fr. Denis Fahey writes in his The Kingship of Christ and Organized Naturalism (https://archive.org/details/FaheyDenis-TheKingshipOfChristAndOrganizedNaturalism1943/mode/2up) ([Cork, Ireland: The Forum Press, 1943], p. 39). By casting the spiritual battle into thoroughly Naturalist terms, omitting any mention of the supernatural life of grace, “Abp.” Viganò is pandering to the very Invisible Enemy he is trying to combat.
We will end with the prophetic words of our Blessed Lord and Redeemer: “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand” (Mt 24:24-25).
Netanyahu: "We are sons of light, they are sons of darkness"
54sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKD9qR8YHYE
Third Temple Coin:
(https://i.imgur.com/wpsok3i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9XSE7m5.png)
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Yep. Again, just noticing things.
Hope I don't get killed or anything for noticing things.
Stop it with the obnoxious and slanderous spam. Apart from the fact that many of your accusations are grave calumny, there's also the obnoxious behavior of derailing every single thread that mentions +Vigano with walls of your spam. Given the fact that you've ben corrected on many of these points, but have refused to retract anything, your behavior must be characterized as wicked and can hardly be excused.
It only speaks to your mental issues where you believe that +Vigano is going to put a hit out on you for posting this garbage.
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You are correct. This is the problem I have with some of +Viganos words and actions. It seems like he is trying to group all the "conservative" minded people to co-exist and unite to take down the "deep state, satanists." This goes against Catholic teaching.
Sure, that's why he blew up the Matt "Unite the Clans" movement.
You're conflating various political movements into Ecuмenical activities. Many Catholics are involved with Pro Life groups or political movements that are not distinctly Catholic. Provided there's no danger of religious indifferentism, there would be nothing wrong with, say, various groups, including Catholics, Prots, Muslims, etc., promoting a movement to restrict or ban sodomy, or to ban abortion. Why? Because sodomy or the murder of the unborn are contrary to the natural law and do not require Catholic faith in order to oppose.
Apart from, HE is not trying to "group" individuals together. Giving a video talk at a group put together by someone else is not tantamount to actively grouping anyone together. That's no different than when Presidents in the past might send a video speech to the March for Life.
So, take the "March for Life". Traditional Catholics have long participated in that event. But it's a blend of many different people, not exclusively Catholics. It's permissible to join in such common action since abortion is evil according to the natural law, and one need not be a Catholic to know that it's evil.
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You are correct. This is the problem I have with some of +Viganos words and actions. It seems like he is trying to group all the "conservative" minded people to co-exist and unite to take down the "deep state, satanists." This goes against Catholic teaching.
Pope St. Pius X condemned the French Sillon for this type of thing. Trying to fight a moral evil on a natural level.
The only way to triumph against evil is in the Catholic Church, her sacraments, grace and devotion the the Mother of God
Yes, well said. It does go against traditional Catholic teaching to group together all the conservative minded people in order to take down the 'deep state.' Didn't +Vigano address one of these ecuмenical political assemblies, and call them the 'people of God?' These assemblies are comprised of protestants, conciliar Catholics, Jєωs, new-agers, etc. Yes, Pius X did condemn the Sillon for this type of thing. I've been reading Michael Davies biography of Archbishop Lefebvre, and Davies writes that Archbishop Lefebvre was once accused of having Sillon sympathies by one of the Modernists back when Econe was being investigated by Modernist Rome in the '70's, which of course the Archbishop strongly denied.
You are so correct that the way to triumph against evil is in the true Catholic Church, with her sacraments and grace and devotion to the Mother of God. How can +Vigano, who seems to understand some aspects of Tradition, have such a blind spot in believing so strongly in religious liberty?
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Yep. Again, just noticing things.
Hope I don't get killed or anything for noticing things.
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From a quick comparison of Masonic belief and Catholic belief:
Mason’s View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. According to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, a person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.
https://brooklynirish.org/2018/11/10/what-is-free-masonry-and-what-do-free-masons-believe/
(https://i.imgur.com/fXUFDaB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/z9jMq6K.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/0VRWyVU.png)
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From: https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/
Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper: “Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/)
June 8, 2020
Naturalism under the guise of conservative Catholicism…
Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper:
“Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump
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The former Vatican nuncio to the United States, “Archbishop” Carlo Maria Viganò (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bvigano.html), has been hiding at an undisclosed location since August of 2018, after he publicly accused “Pope” Francis of having known about and covered up (http://novusordowatch.org/2018/08/vatican-archbishop-accuses-francis-cover-up-sex-abuse-mccarrick/) sɛҳuąƖ abuse perpetrated by “Cardinal” Theodore McCarrick.
On June 6, 2020, Fr. Viganò — he’s a valid priest but not a bishop (http://novusordowatch.org/2018/06/unholy-orders-50-years-invalid-ordinations/) — released a 3-page open letter to U.S. President Donald Trump, in which he encourages him to stay the course against malicious, infernal forces trying to overturn the current social order and impose what amounts to a globalist secular Marxist tyranny. The letter has been hailed by Viganò’s usual supporters — Life Site, The Remnant, Catholic Family News, etc. — and has been circulated widely around the internet.
So far, so good. The problem, however, is that in his letter Vigano promotes dangerous and significant theological errors that apparently none of his cheerleaders has picked up on, even though they are promoted in fairly plain sight.
In what follows, we shall provide a critical commentary on “Abp.” Vigano’s letter. But first, some links:
- Full Text: Letter of Carlo Maria Viganò to President Donald Trump (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/archbishop-vigano-writes-open-letter-to-president-trump-full-text/)
- PDF version of Vigano’s letter on original stationery (https://edwardpentin.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Letter-President-Trump-1.pdf)
- Commentary by retired Novus Ordo bishop René Gracida: ‘reads like a letter from a future Pope’ (https://abyssum.org/2020/06/06/here-is-a-remarkable-open-letter-sent-to-president-donald-trump-by-archbishop-carlo-maria-vigano-the-former-apostolic-nuncio-from-the-holy-see-to-the-united-states-of-america-the-letter-is-so-remar/)
- Commentary by The Remnant‘s Michael Matt: “Catholics need to get the Archbishop’s urgent message through to Donald Trump” (https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4926-open-letter-to-donald-trump-former-u-s-apostolic-nuncio-archbishop-vigano-stands-with-president-against-the-mob)
- Commentary by Catholic Family News’ Matt Gaspers: “Catholic Family News stands with Archbishop Viganò and applauds his extraordinary letter” (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/06/06/archbishop-vigano-to-president-trump-beware-the-deep-church-as-well-as-the-deep-state/)
- Commentary by Taylor Marshall: “a wonderful letter… written like an Apostle” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4upHPYKtqE)
- Commentary by Giuseppe Pellegrino at Church Militant: “a light shining in darkness” (https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/thank-you-archbishop-vigano)
Before we proceed, a brief clarification is in order: Some people will want to dismiss our critique by rashly claiming that it has its origin in a mere desire to oppose Vigano because he is not a sedevacantist. That is definitely not the case. If that were our only objection, we would first commend him for a well-written letter and then get on his case about not being a sedevacantist. No, the reason for being critical of his open letter to the president is quite simply that it is imbued with a most dangerous heresy, a heresy so obvious that it is greatly alarming to see that those who consider themselves the “remnant” of traditional Catholicism failed to notice it: We are speaking of the heresy of Naturalism, as will be explained.
Let us begin now with an examination of Fr. Viganò’s letter (all italics are Vigano’s; all underlining is ours):Referencing Sacred Scripture, “Abp.” Viganò divides humanity into two groups: the good and the bad, the “children of light” and the “children of darkness.” That distinction is justified — the problem is how Viganò defines these groups. Given what he says in the above paragraph, the author seems to consider all those to be Children of Light who are of good will, as though nothing more were required to be actually good. Vigano fails to draw the absolutely essential distinction between people who are naturally good and those who are supernaturally good. Yes, it is an essential distinction since, claiming to be “biblical” about it, he is introducing divine revelation into the topic and thus claims to be teaching revealed truth.
In John 12:36, our Blessed Lord instructs His disciples: “Whilst you have the light, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light.” Christ Himself being the Light of the World (see Jn 1:4; Jn 8:12; 1 Jn 1:5), those who follow Him are rightly called the Children of Light, and are exhorted to walk in a way that befits them:
But who are the true followers of our Lord? They are those who have joined His supernatural society on earth, the Roman Catholic Church. That Church alone is “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15), if we’re going to be biblical about it, and it alone Christ has established as the congregation of the faithful. Hence neither public heretics nor schismatics can be a part of her: Schismatics are not congregated and heretics are not faithful. “And, indeed, there is one true and holy religion on the earth founded and established by Christ the Lord Himself,” Pope Pius IX teaches. “It is called Catholic, Apostolic, Roman by name, the fruitful and nurturing parent of all virtues, the expeller of vices, and the liberator of souls, the touchstone of true happiness” (Allocution Iamdudum Cernimus (https://novusordowatch.org/pius9-iamdudum-cernimus/)).
Granted, mere membership in the Church is not sufficient for salvation; but it is necessary to be either a member of the Church or, at the very least, to be joined to the Body of the Church by an efficacious desire through Faith, hope, and charity (see Holy Office Letter Suprema Haec Sacra (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1467), Aug. 8, 1949). Hence the Church is truly called the the “Ark of Salvation” (Pope Pius IX, Allocution Singulari Quadam (http://novusordowatch.org/pius9-singulari-quadam/)), such that “whosoever turns his back on the Church cannot be near to Christ” (Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Rerum Novarum (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13rerum.htm), n. 30).
“Abp.” Vigano leaves all of this supernatural truth out of account and accepts the Naturalist lie that all those who “mean well” are the Children of Light. In other words, he promotes the idea that regardless of their religion or personal sinfulness — that is, regardless of whether they possess Faith, hope, or charity — all “good people” are on God’s side, are part of the Church, are part of His Kingdom. What is this but a conservative version of “all nice people go to Heaven”?
Vigano’s erroneous theology results in him making the foolish declaration that “the children of light constitute the most conspicuous part of humanity”! While it may be true that they are conspicuous (cf. Mt 5:14-16), they are definitely not the majority, which is what Vigano appears to imply, since he immediately contrasts what he says with the Children of Darkness being “an absolute minority”: “How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” (Mt 7:14).
Continuing now with the letter:
Here Fr. Vigano confirms his intent to be teaching revealed truth, and he fails miserably. The offspring of the Woman (cf. Gen 3:15; Jn 19:26-27; Apoc 12:1) are those supernaturally regenerated in grace — “in Christ a new creature” (2 Cor 5:17), for which the virtue of Faith is absolutely indispensable: “But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him” (Heb 11:6). But there is only one true Faith, which is the Roman Catholic Faith: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity” (Athanasian Creed; Denz. 39 (http://denzinger.patristica.net/denzinger/#n1)).
Yes, there are mitigating factors with regard to those who are in invincible ignorance. However, such factors, while diminishing guilt, cannot dispense with the absolute necessity of the virtue of Faith for salvation; although not all dogmas must be known and believed explicitly (cf. Pope Clement XI, Response of the Holy Office to the Bishop of Quebec; Denz. 1349a (http://denzinger.patristica.net/denzinger/#n1300)). As Pope Pius IX taught, “The arms of the Lord are not shortened, and the gifts of the heavenly grace are never wanting to those who sincerely wish for them, and who beg for the assistance of that light” (Allocution Singulari Quadam (http://novusordowatch.org/pius9-singulari-quadam/)).
Thus it is utterly absurd for “Abp.” Vigano to suggest that, essentially, all who are not malicious are “motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work, to give prosperity to their homeland, to help the needy, and, in obedience to the Law of God, to merit the Kingdom of Heaven”, albeit with “a thousand defects and weaknesses.” This is Pelagianism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm)! By entirely leaving out of account the necessity of divine grace and the supernatural virtues of Faith, hope, and charity, Fr. Vigano is promoting a dangerous Naturalism that is at the root of the very Antichrist movement he is supposedly trying to oppose!
Rightly did Fr. Frederick Faber (http://novusordowatch.org/2019/11/what-will-make-antichrist-so-deceptive/) warn us:Let us repeat: It is a very grave error to think that all who are of good will — who work for a living, strive not to hurt anyone, and help the poor — are the spiritual progeny of the Blessed Mother, are the Children of Light, are part of the Kingdom of God. It is heresy! That is the sort of theology one expects to get from “Pope” Francis, but not from a man who has recently been profiling himself as the orthodox antidote to Francis, even to the point of rightly calling into question the Second Vatican Council (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2019/09/11/more-bombshells-from-vigano-masonic-infiltration-vatican-ii-and-the-jesuits/). What is going on here?!
Vigano continues:Here the Unholy See’s former nuncio to the United States narrows his definition of “Children of Darkness” further and identifies them with the American deep state (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/deep-state). By the laws of logic, this would mean that whoever isn’t part of the deep state is part of the Kingdom of God, since whoever isn’t in one camp is necessarily in the other. Can it get any more absurd?
Continuing with the open letter:Here Viganò is creating even greater confusion. Addressing a man who is a Presbyterian, he speaks rather generically about “the flock of Christ” and about “faithful Shepherds”, “mercenary infidels”, and “ravenous wolves”. Instead of giving these terms clear and orthodox Catholic definitions, however, he gives them a political spin by making them the spiritual equivalents of the deep state, “allies of the children of darkness [who] hate the children of light”.
This is just theological chaos. Is Fr. Vigano saying, for instance, that a Presbyterian pastor who is “motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work”, etc. is therefore a true shepherd of the flock of Christ? Is he out of his mind?! Or, if that’s not what means, isn’t that nevertheless what President Trump must understand him to be saying?
The way Vigano defines and separates the good and the bad is not at all biblical but entirely Naturalistic, based on natural considerations and not on supernatural divine revelation and grace (cf. Mt 7:21-23).
Continuing with the letter:This is fair enough, but Fr. Vigano should be aware of the fact that the American constitution is based on Masonic ideas — such as religious liberty, Indifferentism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07759a.htm), and freedom of speech. These are not Catholic notions but ideas condemned by the Popes (for example, by Gregory XVI (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/greg16/g16mirar.htm) and Pius IX (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm)), so it makes little sense to warn a Protestant President of the United States about Masonic ideals.
There is no question that President Trump has done a considerable amount to significantly reduce the number of abortions in the United States in the long run. However, it must also be pointed out — simply because it too is part of the objective record — that the same president does not defend (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-alabama-abortion-law-2019-5) an unborn child’s right not to be murdered if the little one was conceived in the wrong circuмstances or if his presence in the womb accidentally endangers the life of his mother. Then dismembering the baby is OK, he believes. Let’s just keep that in mind before proclaiming Donald Trump “a President who courageously defends the right to life.” He does courageously defend the right to life of most, but not of all, innocent people.
Viganò ends his open letter as follows:Here the former nuncio doubles down on his identification of the Children of Light with “the good”, who are all those, we are told, who reject the infernal globalist program of the deep state.
Vigano’s identification of basically all who mean well with the Children of Light spoken of in the Bible is an utter theological nightmare. We are not talking about a simple gaffe, the mere result of a quibble about a theological nuance. No, this is a huge heresy with tremendous practical repercussions, as it indirectly confirms all good-willed non-Catholics in their errors and promotes a sort of “generic religion of the good-willed” or a “generic Christianity” at best. But that is a false Christianity, because there is only one true Christianity, and that is the Roman Catholic religion, of which “Abp.” Vigano considers himself a representative. Ironically, this Indifferentism promoted by Vigano is one of the core doctrines of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.
To summarize the Catholic position on the Children of Light vs. the Children of Darkness, we turn to Pope Pius IX:Sadly, “Abp.” Vigano communicated none of this in his open letter to President Trump. Instead, he gravely distorted the supernatural truth about who are the Children of Light and who are the Children of Darkness. It is nothing short of alarming that this letter has been hailed by many semi-traditionalists as a terrific missive from a true ally in the cause of truth and salvation.
At The Remnant, Michael Matt encouraged his readership (https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4926-open-letter-to-donald-trump-former-u-s-apostolic-nuncio-archbishop-vigano-stands-with-president-against-the-mob) to share the open letter with as many as possible, commenting: “…we the Catholic faithful—the Catholic clans—must get the word out that we stand with Christ the King….” Standing with Christ the King is a most noble goal, but “Abp.” Vigano, for his part, did no such thing in his letter. He mentioned the Holy Name of Jesus Christ exactly once, telling President Trump: “For the first time, the United States has in you a President who courageously defends the right to life, who is not ashamed to denounce the persecution of Christians throughout the world, who speaks of Jesus Christ and the right of citizens to freedom of worship.”
It is unclear, therefore, just how promoting Fr. Vigano’s letter would be a way to stand with Christ the King, for His Kingship was certainly not promoted or defended in that letter. Instead, we heard a lot about the need to oppose the deep state and the deep church, about freedom of worship, and about how all those who make an honest living and don’t want to convert society into a globalist hellhole are all Children of Light working for the Kingdom of God. The word “grace” was entirely absent. The letter promoted a lowest-common-denoninator “Christianity” at best, but certainly not the Catholic Social Kingship of Christ, as laid out by Pope Pius XI in 1925 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11prima.htm).
At Catholic Family News, Matt Gaspers took Vigano’s paradigm of the two opposing camps — Children of Light vs. Children of Darkness — and connected it to what St. Louis de Montfort spoke about in his phenomenal work True Devotion to Mary:Thus Gaspers fully adopts Vigano’s conflation of the good-willed people of the world, regardless of their religion or moral lives, with the biblical Children of Light who are part of the Kingdom of God. He even one-ups Vigano by calling them not only, somewhat obscurely, the “offspring of the Woman” but “the race of the holy Virgin” and “the true children and servants of Mary”!
HELLO…?!
Vigano’s letter to Trump, however laudable it may be in other respects, is a manifesto of Naturalism and Indifferentism. Our first loyalty must be to Jesus Christ and His Holy Catholic Church, which is a supernatural society of the true followers of Our Lord, and not a natural amalgam of all who mean well:
Thus, while “Abp.” Viganò is getting kudos from all sides among the “traditional Catholics” of the Remnant stripe, he will get a harsh rebuke here. His open letter to President Trump was surely consoling to the intended recipient on a natural level, but on the much more significant supernatural plane, it accomplished absolutely nothing positive, not for the president and not for anyone else who read it.
Not once did Vigano even hint at President Trump’s need to convert to the only True Faith. This could have been done very kindly and diplomatically, to at least plant a seed. Instead, the former nuncio misled the president in this most serious matter, putting his soul in even greater danger than before. Viganò made it seem as though Trump was already fighting the battle of God against Satan and therefore, in a sense, was the ultimate representative of the Children of Light in civil society. And while God may indeed be using President Trump to ensure continued freedom for the Church and to prevent a complete social takeover of the forces of hell, this does not make him a member of the Church, of the Kingdom of God, or of the Children of Light. To suggest otherwise is to commit a grave uncharity against our current president.
Donald Trump is in great need of our prayers, for many reasons. The most important one pertains to the status of his own soul: He is in desperate need of the theological virtues of Faith, hope, and charity, which can only be had through the assistance of divine grace. Tragically, none of this was communicated to him in “Abp.” Carlo Viganò’s letter. “Satan everywhere combats and everywhere seeks to eliminate the Supernatural Life of Grace, participation in the Life of the Blessed Trinity”, Fr. Denis Fahey writes in his The Kingship of Christ and Organized Naturalism (https://archive.org/details/FaheyDenis-TheKingshipOfChristAndOrganizedNaturalism1943/mode/2up) ([Cork, Ireland: The Forum Press, 1943], p. 39). By casting the spiritual battle into thoroughly Naturalist terms, omitting any mention of the supernatural life of grace, “Abp.” Viganò is pandering to the very Invisible Enemy he is trying to combat.
We will end with the prophetic words of our Blessed Lord and Redeemer: “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand” (Mt 24:24-25).
Netanyahu: "We are sons of light, they are sons of darkness"
54sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKD9qR8YHYE
Third Temple Coin:
(https://i.imgur.com/wpsok3i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9XSE7m5.png)
A very good and thorough explanation above of the problems with +Vigano's "peaceful coexistence" nonsense. Thanks, Miser!
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Mortalium Animos, Pius XI, 1928:
4. Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual reproaches and at long last be united in mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be "one."[1] And did not the same Christ will that His disciples should be marked out and distinguished from others by this characteristic, namely that they loved one another: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another"?[2] All Christians, they add, should be as "one": for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed.
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We need to be very careful for following someone who says all we want to hear.
This term "peaceful coexistence" is freemasonic, globalist because through uniting states will the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr be established. One of the goals of this Israeli war with Palestine (Hamas is occult, kabalistic project CIA, MI6 and Mossad) is to provoke world war so that false peace will be forcefully imposed. Just like measures for "our safety and health" against Covid-19 plandemic and future plandemics.
WHO has seized control of so much states, so in future "plandemic" they will control moves and not presidents, governments, "headquarters of civil protection".
I will qoute now some of the messages from Heaven given to Marie Julie Jahenny, aka Breton Stigmatist.
"France will pay for its 200 years of democracy and its anti christian regime - having abolished the absolute Catholic monarchy of France, (i.e during the Masonically influenced French Revolution), but the monarchy will eventually be restored." (April 20, 1874)
(INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS ABOUT TIMING: France officially ceased to be a Catholic nation and became a secular state when it abolished its absolute Catholic monarchy and adopted its first Constitution after the French Revolution in 1791 - France was declared a Republic in 1792.
Since 200 years had not passed when this prophecy was made in 1874 - the 200 years obviously refers to when France could expect the major chastisements - which means anytime from 1991-1992 onwards: the end of the 20th century and into the 21st. This fits in exactly with the chastisement timing revealed by other mystics.)
About modern Democracy - it is from HELL ITSELF - the 'Luciferian Regime par excellence'. (April 20, 1874)
So archbishop Vigano is wrong if he is hoping for "peaceful coexistance", ending wars. Antichrist in the end will talk and seduce people in world peace. At least in the beginning of his reign.
Only Our Lady's Triumph of Immaculate Heart will bring us Reign of Mary, Age of Peace. I don't believe in Garabandal apparitions, the Warning, Medjugorje (I went there and studied two books in Croatian that completely denounce the seers, using one of the seer's own diary!).
Only Christ the King will bring eternal peace on Earth, at the end of the age.
Socrates and Plato were also against democracies. Jesus always talked about Kingdom of Heaven. That's why Catholic Church has, is and always will be monarchichal. Pope is not a tyrant, but he is a supreme pastor with immidiate and complete jurisdiction.
I believe in the prophecies about Great Monarch, who will together with the Angelic Pontiff will restore Holy Roman Empire. In the Age of Peace, there won't be islamic states (maybe false religion of Islam at all), no occult, secret societies that rule the world. Eastern schismatics will be reunited to Christ's Church, and there will be only one way to interpret Holy Scripture.
As it seems now, bishop Williamson is right, it would be impossible to achieve this, humanly speaking.
Our Lady of Good Success also stated that, it will be God's miracle clear for all to see and to realize it in that way only.
If prophecies about Great Monarch, Angelic Pontiff, Age of Peace are false, then we are closer than we think to the coming the Antichrist, the Son of Perdition. And also we are closer to the Armageddon, Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
I think that we are not there yet, as most Protestant, and others believe. Clearly we have signs today, and the technology for the Mark of the Beast.
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How can +Vigano, who seems to understand some aspects of Tradition, have such a blind spot in believing so strongly in religious liberty?
He still has much NO in him.
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Sure, that's why he blew up the Matt "Unite the Clans" movement.
You're conflating various political movements into Ecuмenical activities. Many Catholics are involved with Pro Life groups or political movements that are not distinctly Catholic. Provided there's no danger of religious indifferentism, there would be nothing wrong with, say, various groups, including Catholics, Prots, Muslims, etc., promoting a movement to restrict or ban sodomy, or to ban abortion. Why? Because sodomy or the murder of the unborn are contrary to the natural law and do not require Catholic faith in order to oppose.
Apart from, HE is not trying to "group" individuals together. Giving a video talk at a group put together by someone else is not tantamount to actively grouping anyone together. That's no different than when Presidents in the past might send a video speech to the March for Life.
So, take the "March for Life". Traditional Catholics have long participated in that event. But it's a blend of many different people, not exclusively Catholics. It's permissible to join in such common action since abortion is evil according to the natural law, and one need not be a Catholic to know that it's evil.
What's your view on 12 step meetings? At the end of the meetings participants hold hands or lock arms and pray a vocal prayer in unison. Usually it's the Serenity Prayer.
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One thing Archbishop Vigano did was to write exemptions letters for the Catholics who refused to take poison while the world was shut down.
How many traditional clergy publicly did that? Any traditional Catholic bishops do that or did they go along with global evil?
Man of the people Bergolio met with rich and greedy ceos of big pharm.
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That was a well thought out article by Novus Ordo Watch. Yes, it was from 2020; but it is just as pertinent today.
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That was a well thought out article by Novus Ordo Watch. Yes, it was from 2020; but it is just as pertinent today.
Yes, and he further expounded on the heresies committed by Vigano at the MAGA rallies here:
“Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/)
December 15, 2020
So much for their resistance to Vatican II…
“Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews
(https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/carlo-vigano-taylor-marshall-jericho-march.png?resize=583%2C308&ssl=1)
This post is about theology, not politics.
The former nuncio of the Holy See to the United States, “Archbishop” Carlo Maria Viganò, who has been in hiding since accusing “Pope” Francis of knowing about (https://novusordowatch.org/2018/08/vatican-archbishop-accuses-francis-cover-up-sex-abuse-mccarrick/) Theodore McCarrick’s sɛҳuąƖ crimes, is currently the darling of the semi-traditionalists who, although they acknowledge him as Pope, loathe Francis and the reign of (t)error (https://novusordowatch.org/francis/) that has been his hallmark since he usurped the Chair of St. Peter on Mar. 13, 2013.
The reason Viganò is so popular with those who consider themselves traditional Catholics and yet believe the Vatican II Sect to be the Catholic Church, is because he speaks out forcefully against Francis and has publicly condemned many of the theological errors propagated by the New Church, even pointing to the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/03/theological-errors-of-vatican2/) as being at the root of it all.
The same can be said, though to a lesser extent, of Dr. Taylor Marshall (https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2020/04/infiltration-who-is-really-doing-it.html), a larger-than-life “Catholic” author and commentator who wormed his way into the semi-trad landscape in 2018 by suddenly adopting many of the positions popular among semi-trads and by publishing the hack job Infiltration, shrewdly marketed (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/08/assessing-taylor-marshalls-infiltration/) as a great literary accomplishment (we took it apart in our podcast here (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/05/tradcast-027-is-here/) and here (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/07/tradcast-028-is-here/)).
We will return to Marshall later and first turn our attention to Viganò. Let us recall his explosive indictment of Vatican II released in June of this year:
- Viganò lets it rip: Former Vatican Nuncio publishes scathing Condemnation of Vatican II Religion (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/vigano-condemns-vatican2-religion/)
Although that particular missive of his was theologically astute and we acknowledged as much, at the same time Viganò was peddling serious theological errors in a letter he had sent to U.S. President Donald Trump only a day or two prior:
- Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper: “Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/)
Ironically, Vigano’s theological howlers in this celebrated letter were reminiscent of the Vatican II errors he was denouncing in his other monograph.
It turns out that that was not a one-time gaffe, though, because now the retired nuncio has inserted himself into the public arena again and has done so in a way that should unsettle anyone who considers himself to be a traditional Roman Catholic: This past Saturday, Dec. 12, he participated virtually as a speaker in an interreligious prayer rally that was part of the so-called Jericho March in Washington, D.C. He delivered a pre-recorded video message that ended with a prayer.
Before we examine his words, let’s have a quick look at the nature and goal of the Jericho March. According to the official web site of the organizers:
Jericho March™ is comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians [sic] collectively praying to God to intercede, expose a particular darkness, and bring about justice. As a community of believers, we take our petitions to heaven, and we know that our mighty and powerful God answers and can move mountains.
Jericho was a city of false gods and corruption. Just as Joshua was instructed to march around the walls of Jericho, Jericho Marchers march around at a specific place and time until that darkness is exposed and the walls of corruption fall down.
The Jericho Marches are also a unified celebration of authentic and diverse ʝʊdɛօ-Christian forms [of] worship including praying, chanting, preaching, singing, rosary recitations, Eucharistic processions, and blowing shofars. Individuals and groups on Jericho Marches are self-led.
(“Mission” (https://web.archive.org/web/20201212170742/https://jerichomarch.org/about/) at JerichoMarch.org; underlining added.)
Obviously, then, the Jericho March is a religious event, indeed an interreligious one, whose primary purpose is collective prayer and worship. The religions chiefly being addressed are Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism, and their adherents are all lumped together as a “community of believers.”
The goal of the March on Dec. 12 was announced as follows:
This Election Jericho March™ will culminate in a massive national peaceful prayer rally protest in Washington, D.C. on Dec. 12, 2020 called “Let the Church ROAR!” where we will march around the U.S. Capitol seven times to send a very clear message to national and state leaders as they hear patriots and people of faith roar in support of election integrity, transparency, and reform.
(“Dec 12, 2020 Events” (https://web.archive.org/web/20201212170742/https://jerichomarch.org/about/) at JerichoMarch.org; underlining added.)
The same blurb added: “We will be hearing from national faith leaders, worship leaders, and others.”
Some of those “faith leaders” Viganò shared the stage with included (names, titles, and descriptions taken from Jericho March web site (https://web.archive.org/web/20201209211310/https://jerichomarch.org/2020/12/lt-general-mike-flynn-to-speak-eric-metaxas-to-emcee-at-the-jericho-march-and-stop-the-steal-prayer-rally-on-the-national-mall/)):
- Bishop Strickland, Catholic Diocese of Tyler, Texas (video)
- Dr. Steve Newman, Jєωιѕн patriot
- Dr. Taylor Marshall, Catholic Author and Commentator (video)
- Fr. Frank Pavone, Priests for Life (video)
- Fr. Greg Bramlage, Missionaries of the New Evangelization
- Fr. Hans Jacobse, American Orthodox Institute
- Gail Sheppard and George Michalopulos, Orthodox Christian Religious Commentators
- Kelly Kullberg, Veritas Forum and American Association of Evangelicals
- Rabbi Curt Landry, Curt Landry Ministries
- Rev. Kevin Jessip, The Return, Global Strategic Alliance
The whole event was markedly Zionist. The prayer rally ended with the blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar, a trumpet that calls to repentance and/or to battle. It is a custom that is popular not only among Jews but also among “Christian” Zionists (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/may-web-only/christians-Jєωιѕн-shofar-israel-huckabee.html). One of the shofars used had an Israeli flag wrapped around it, in addition to the American flag.
Regardless of the intentions of the organizers, and regardless of whatever merits there may be to the aim for which the March was held, there can only be one response for a real Roman Catholic to such a syncretistic interreligious prayer event: You must stay away under pain of mortal sin and (at least) suspicion of heresy.
The very concept of an ecuмenical/interreligious church, roaring or not, must be vehemently rejected by a Catholic. In 1868, Pope Pius IX reminded the world that Protestant sects are not part of the Church founded by Christ and are lacking in unity of faith and government. He noted “that such a state of things is directly opposed to the nature of the Church instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ…” (Apostolic Letter Iam Vos Omnes (https://novusordowatch.org/pius9-iam-vos-omnes/)). In 1928, Pope Pius XI again rejected the idea “that the Church in itself, or of its nature, is divided into sections; that is to say, that it is made up of several churches or distinct communities, which still remain separate, and although having certain articles of doctrine in common, nevertheless disagree concerning the remainder…” (Encyclical Mortalium Animos (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm), n. 7). Vigano knows this.
Also, a Catholic must reject the terminology employed by the Jericho March regarding “people of faith”:
The use by Catholics of such expression as “interfaith meetings” and “persons of different faiths,” whereby non-Catholics are said or implied to have a different faith from Catholics is very unfortunate. The word faith, as traditionally used in the Catholic Church, signifies exclusively the one true faith, which is found only in the Catholic Church. Objectively, the faith is the body of truths that are proposed by the infallible magisterium of the Church as divinely revealed; subjectively, faith is the infused virtue whereby one accepts the truths of divine revelation on account of God’s authority. It is true, the virtue of faith can reside in persons of good will separated from Catholic unity; yet, even in such the infused virtue impels them to believe only what is actually true; it does not extend to doctrines which they themselves may sincerely believe but which are actually false (St. Thomas, Sum. theol., II-II, q. 1, a. 3). The words of St. Paul are very explicit in this connection: “One Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephes. 4:5). When Catholics wish to speak of those outside the true fold, they could refer to them as persons of different denominations, different beliefs, different creeds — but the word faith should be retained in its traditional Catholic sense.
(Rev. Francis J. Connell, Father Connell Answers Moral Questions (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1258130149/interregnumnow-20) [Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1959], pp. 10-11; italics given.)
Now let us examine the brief speech delivered by “Abp.” Viganò, which was shown on a gigantic screen at the prayer rally:
A full transcript of the remarks has been posted at the conservative Novus Ordo web site Life Site (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/abp-vigano-speech-to-jericho-march). We will only quote the portions we intend to comment on. Vigano begins thus:
Dear brothers and sisters,
I greet all of you on this day dedicated to prayer for our beloved Nation, the United States of America. Let’s ask God to make truth and justice triumph! Let’s ask Him to dispel the lies and deceptions of the children of darkness!
First, we observe that the people he addresses as “brothers and sisters” are a motley crew of Novus Ordos, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Judaizers, and Jews. Second, it is puzzling that he speaks of the United States as “our beloved Nation”, considering that he is a citizen of Italy, and it has been well over four years that he retired from his role as nuncio to the U.S. Likewise, he subsequently speaks of “our Country and … our President”.
Viganò again makes a reference to the “children of darkness.” We say “again” because he had already introduced the concept in his open letter to President Trump published in June. However, Vigano’s use and understanding of the term and its counterpart — “children of light” — is not orthodox because he uses them in an entirely Naturalist sense and divorces them from the supernatural concept of sanctifying grace (or lack thereof). Our criticism of Vigano’s letter (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/) explains this in some detail.
Further on, Vigano makes clear that he identifies with all of the others participating in the prayer rally, saying: “We are the silent army of the children of Light, the humble ranks who overthrow evil by invoking God, the praying army that walks around the walls of lies and betrayal in order to bring them down.” By speaking in the first person plural — “we” — he is making clear that he considers himself one of them and one with them. This is only consistent with the nature and purpose of the event, which the organizers had announced would be “comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians collectively praying to God”.
So Vigano endorses the idea that the “Catholics”, Orthodox, Protestants, and Jews gathered there to demand election transparency and an end to corruption comprise the “children of light”, similar to how the Chosen People of the Old Covenant together brought down the walls of Jericho by faithfully following God’s orders. Does he not see a theological problem with that?
St. Paul once warned the Ephesians: “Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things [sins he had just enumerated] cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. Be ye not therefore partakers with them. For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light” (Eph 5:6-8). Who are “the children of unbelief” if not non-Catholics — who are contrasted precisely with the “children of the light”?
Vigano, on the other hand, considers the people he is addressing, collectively, to be the people of God, the “roaring church”: “We fight the battles of the Lord with faith and courage, carrying the Ark of the Covenant in our hearts, remaining faithful to the teachings of the Gospel of Our Lord!” Addressing God in prayer, he even refers to everyone gathered as “this army of Thy children”!
So Vigano believes in a church that is comprised not only of Catholics but also of unbelievers of various stripes, who, presumably because they are fighting for a cause Vigano deems worthy, have been promoted by him to the status of “children of light”, “children of God”, and soldiers in God’s army. And this from a man who is widely seen as staunch and unyielding Catholic traditionalist — it defies belief!
All in all, Vigano’s remarks are dangerous, outrageous, absurd, gravely erroneous theologically, and at least implicitly heretical.
What makes matters worse is that Vigano is not simply your average, run-of-the-mill Novus Ordo bishop who simply doesn’t know better. Quite the contrary — he has demonstrated that he has an astute grasp of real Catholic doctrine and the corresponding errors of Vatican II. We recall that in his spectacular condemnation of the Conciliar religion, dated June 9, 2020, the former nuncio lamented:
Together with numerous Council Fathers, we thought of ecuмenism as a process, an invitation that calls dissidents to the one Church of Christ, idolaters and pagans to the one True God, and the Jєωιѕн people to the promised Messiah. But from the moment it was theorized in the conciliar commissions, ecuмenism was configured in a way that was in direct opposition to the doctrine previously expressed by the Magisterium.
We have thought that certain excesses were only an exaggeration of those who allowed themselves to be swept up in enthusiasm for novelty; we sincerely believed that seeing John Paul II surrounded by charmers-healers, buddhist monks, imams, rabbis, protestant pastors and other heretics gave proof of the Church’s ability to summon people together in order to ask God for peace, while the authoritative example of this action initiated a deviant succession of pantheons that were more or less official, even to the point of seeing Bishops carrying the unclean idol of the pachamama on their shoulders, sacrilegiously concealed under the pretext of being a representation of sacred motherhood.
But if the image of an infernal divinity was able to enter into Saint Peter’s, this is part of a cresecendo which the other side foresaw from the beginning. Numerous practicing Catholics, and perhaps also a majority of Catholic clergy, are today convinced that the Catholic Faith is no longer necessary for eternal salvation; they believe that the One and Triune God revealed to our fathers is the same as the god of Mohammed. Already twenty years ago we heard this repeated from pulpits and episcopal cathedrae, but recently we hear it being affirmed with emphasis even from the highest Throne.
We know well that, invoking the saying in Scripture Littera enim occidit, spiritus autem vivificat [The letter brings death, but the spirit gives life (2 Cor 3:6)], the progressives and modernists astutely knew how to hide equivocal expressions in the conciliar texts, which at the time appeared harmless to most but that today are revealed in their subversive value. It is the method employed in the use of the phrase subsistit in: saying a half-truth not so much as not to offend the interlocutor (assuming that is licit to silence the truth of God out of respect for His creature), but with the intention of being able to use the half-error that would be instantly dispelled if the entire truth were proclaimed. Thus “Ecclesia Christi subsistit in Ecclesia Catholica” does not specify the identity of the two, but the subsistence of one in the other and, for consistency, also in other churches: here is the opening to interconfessional celebrations, ecuмenical prayers, and the inevitable end of any need for the Church in the order of salvation, in her unicity, and in her missionary nature.
(“Abp.” Carlo Maria Viganò, Letter of June 9, 2020; printed in full at Life Site (https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/abp-vigano-on-the-roots-of-deviation-of-vatican-ii-and-how-francis-was-chosen-to-revolutionize-the-church); italics given; underlining added.)
Similarly, in a Sep. 1, 2020 letter to Catholic Family News contributor Stephen Kokx (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/09/viganos-theological-vortex-critical-commentary-part1/), Vigano asserted firmly that “it is clear that no admixture is possible with those who propose adulterated doctrines of the conciliar ideological manifesto….”
So, the question now has to be asked: What happened to all that?! Now he is mixing not only with regular Vatican II believers but also with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews, labeling them children of God, children of light, part of the church, and soldiers in God’s army!
Here are some snapshots from the rest of the rally, which lasted over 4 hours:
(https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-4.png?resize=300%2C193&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-3.png?resize=300%2C235&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-2.png?resize=300%2C201&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-1.png?resize=300%2C175&ssl=1)
Vigano has quite simply condemned himself. He has participated in a thoroughly ecuмenical religious event, one in which not only Protestants (who typically affirm the Holy Trinity) but even Trinity-denying Jews took part. A Dec. 5 press release (https://jerichomarch.org/2020/12/thousands-of-religious-americans-and-patriots-will-flock-to-washington-dc-on-december-12th-to-protest-election-fraud-and-corruption/) for Jericho March stated: “The prayer rally will feature national faith leaders including popular evangelical pastors, Catholic clergy, Jєωιѕн, and Orthodox leaders; political leaders and elected officials; viral social media influencers and top activists from the political sphere; and praise and worship musicians.” It doesn’t get much more ecuмenical than that! And since this was part of the advertisement for the event, it’s not like Vigano didn’t know what he was getting himself into.
The same goes for Taylor Marshall.
Presumably due to his influence and popularity among “conservative Catholics” and traditionalists, Marshall was appointed to the “Catholics for Trump” advisory board (http://web.archive.org/web/20201019230936/https://catholics.donaldjtrump.com/) in July of this year. Like Vigano, he too delivered a few remarks at the prayer rally and led the interreligious crowd in praying the Our Father, via video:
The complete video feed of the entire prayer rally is embedded below. Fr. Vigano’s appearance begins at the 58:42 timestamp. Marshall’s turn comes at 2:47:45:
Clearly, this was not simply a political event. Above all, it was a religious prayer event, and as such it had been advertised.
The blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar came at the very end:
Apparently Vigano and Marshall thought they’d fit right in with all this. Never mind what the Church’s law decrees on the matter, namely:
Canon 2316
Whoever in any manner willingly and knowingly helps in the promulgation of heresy, or who communicates in things divine with heretics against the prescriptions of Canon 1258, is suspected of heresy.
Canon 1258
§1. It is not licit for the faithful by any manner to assist actively or to have a part in the sacred [rites] of non-Catholics.
§2. Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the Bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent.
(1917 Code of Canon Law; Ed Peters translation (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898708311/interregnumnow-20).)
By taking part in an essentially religious assembly in which “Catholics” prayed together with Protestant heretics and Jews, Vigano and Marshall have made themselves suspect of heresy on that count alone. The heresy in question is Indifferentism, “that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, n. 2).
So, where is the outrage from the recognize-and-resist crowd? If such an ecuмenical prayer rally had been held by liberals such as Blaise Cupich or Robert McElroy for some favorite Novus Ordo cause, would The Remnant and similar publications and blogs not be rending their cyber-garments at this point?
And yet, we find the opposite reaction. Like Life Site, the semi-trad newspaper Catholic Family News has happily published Viganò’s address and prayer on its own web site (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/12/14/let-the-church-roar-archbishop-viganos-address-to-the-jericho-march/), with editor-in-chief Brian McCall endorsing the Jericho March in general and Viganò in particular, calling him “a true shepherd given to our nation.” Why McCall would refer to him in this manner is puzzling, considering that Vigano, who has been retired since 2016 (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop//bvigano.html), has no official role in the entire Vatican II Church, much less in its United States branch specifically.
Of course we know the reason why McCall calls Vigano a “true shepherd”. It is not because the “archbishop” was appointed by the “Pope” to shepherd him and his semi-trad friends but because he happens to agree with what he has to say — “His words were powerful and inspiring”, McCall writes in his introduction –, and so he has personally chosen to accept him as his shepherd. But that is not how teaching and governing authority works in the Roman Catholic Church. The only jurisdiction Vigano exercises is over the titular see of Ulpiana, to which he was appointed on Apr. 3, 1992 (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/d2u07.html), by “Pope” John Paul II. Titular sees are extinct dioceses.
Either way, Vigano and Marshall have a lot of explaining to do. In his 2019 book Infiltration (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/05/tradcast-027-is-here/), Marshall criticizes Vatican II’s Rahnerian theology of the church, which holds that “eyond the Catholic Church is the wider ‘People of God’, who include not just Catholics but all people of goodwill who profess other religions. This theology opens the way … to the religious ecuмenism of Vatican II” (p. 138). Apparently this does not bother Marshall when it comes to a socio-political cause he agrees with.
Some will say that the ecuмenical prayer assembly of the Jericho March was very much like the infamous Assisi interreligious prayer for peace event (https://novusordowatch.org/2014/02/john-paul-assisi-apostasy/) conducted by “Pope” John Paul II (https://novusordowatch.org/john-paul-ii/) in 1986 and 2002. But there is a difference: In Assisi, each of the different religious groups prayed separately, apart from one another; in the ecuмenical “Let the Church Roar” rally, the interreligious prayer was collective and offered as a “community of believers.”
So much for the “traditional Catholicism” of Carlo Maria Viganò and Taylor Marshall.
Talk about infiltration!
Image source: youtube.com (http://youtube.com/) (screenshots)
License: fair use
https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/
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Vigano and Taylor Marshal are both tied to Opus Dei.
Check out: akaCatholic.com articles on this.
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Vigano and Taylor Marshal are both tied to Opus Dei.
Check out: akaCatholic.com articles on this.
So what? I could be tied to Opus Dei, as someone tried to recruit me in my college years and I had someone else recruiting me about 10 years go. Marshal is just a grifter, and +Vigano spent decades in the Vatican, and there's no doubt that he would have time ties to them.
Get a life. Until you can demonstrate what agenda +Vigano has or what's he's up to in the interests of Opus Dei, this is worthless and meaningless information.
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So what? I could be tied to Opus Dei, as someone tried to recruit me in my college years and I had someone else recruiting me about 10 years go. Marshal is just a grifter, and +Vigano spent decades in the Vatican, and there's no doubt that he would have time ties to them.
Get a life. Until you can demonstrate what agenda +Vigano has or what's he's up to in the interests of Opus Dei, this is worthless and meaningless information.
Who is this Persto? This shows as an only post for this persona.
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Who is this Persto? This shows as an only post for this persona.
I was wondering that myself. I always find it suspicious when someone signs up just to make a single hit-and-run post.
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I'm a newbie & that was my first post
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This was quoted in the Novus Ordo Watch article Miser quoted:
"saying a half-truth not so much as not to offend the interlocutor (assuming that is licit to silence the truth of God out of respect for His creature)"
Putting aside other relevant issues about Vigano, I want to observe yet again how mighty his pen can be. Some of his lines have the depth of poetry in their resonance. For example, I've never really thought about what is involved when one "softens" the truth or adjusts it to make it more palatable to a non-believer, even when doing so with the intent of proselytizing. But Vigano shows an aspect of what is indeed involved when one does so, and I think, like a good rhetorical question that calls for the listener to provide the answer "on his own" (thus the power of the rhetorical question), the answer Vigano suggests is "no."
The guy's got quite a mind, and ability to express it.
Now, in light of that, his participation in the "prayer" event shows he's a walking contradiction and hypocritical sinner as much as all of us.
I would ask him, "is it licit to silence the truth of God for purposes of an end (the end of abortion, peace, opposition to the forces of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr) that may be even more dangerous in its deception (the suggestion that its end is spiritual) than its non-achievement, since it invests a spiritual or religious dimension to something having nothing to do with salvation (the conversion of a soul to a new birth in Christ Our Lord)?"
I think a similar thing went on when the Church promoted "religious liberty" in instances where Catholics were persecuted. The Church of the first few centuries would have simply accepted martyrdom. When the "religious liberty" door was opened for legitimate concerns not having to do with spiritual salvation in such circuмstances, it paved the way for these kinds of "ecuмenical" conferences.
In a Vigano manner, I'm simply raising the issue here, not condemning him or anyone else. A sinner and son of Adam myself, I perfectly understand not wanting to undergo martyrdom (and taking actions to avoid it), etc.
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He still has much NO in him.
That's part of it. I think the other part is his decades-long diplomatic/political roles.
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UPDATES:
Archbishop Vigano Speaking at Conference “Is the Pope Catholic?” – Ecclesia Militans (https://ecclesiamilitans.com/2023/12/05/archbishop-vigano-speaking-at-conference-is-the-pope-catholic/)
To REGISTER [ends Dec 7th!] email: edmundmazza@gmail.com
Conference starts at 12:30 Eastern time, and the Archbishops talk is towards the end. (His speech is pre-recorded)
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UPDATES:
Archbishop Vigano Speaking at Conference “Is the Pope Catholic?” – Ecclesia Militans (https://ecclesiamilitans.com/2023/12/05/archbishop-vigano-speaking-at-conference-is-the-pope-catholic/)
To REGISTER [ends Dec 7th!] email: edmundmazza@gmail.com
Conference starts at 12:30 Eastern time, and the Archbishops talk is towards the end. (His speech is pre-recorded)
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There's a strange image on the right in that website. There's this picture of a man on a horse from about the 19th century, with caption saying he is the "future great monarch". How is he able to do anything in the future since he is apparently long dead? :confused:
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That's part of it. I think the other part is his decades-long diplomatic/political roles.
I've long felt that the diplomats do not make for great popes. Pius XI was quoted as having said something like how he'd make a deal with the devil (for some good thing for the Church). But, alas, a series of Popes were diplomats. Pius XII never spent a day as a parish priest, doing pastoral work. Where it comes to doctrine, there should be no compromises or careful wording so as not to offend, whereas that's the very bread and butter of diplomats, to craft language carefully so as not to unnecessarily cause tensions.
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the very bread and butter of diplomats, to craft language carefully so as not to unnecessarily cause tensions.
To craft language carefully...but the NOW article points out contradictions in his words.
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To craft language carefully...but the NOW article points out contradictions in his words.
NOW is logically challenged at times. I've caught them/him making numerous blunders.
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Will take that into consideration
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Yes, and he further expounded on the heresies committed by Vigano at the MAGA rallies here:
“Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/)
December 15, 2020
So much for their resistance to Vatican II…
“Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews
(https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/carlo-vigano-taylor-marshall-jericho-march.png?resize=583%2C308&ssl=1)
This post is about theology, not politics.
The former nuncio of the Holy See to the United States, “Archbishop” Carlo Maria Viganò, who has been in hiding since accusing “Pope” Francis of knowing about (https://novusordowatch.org/2018/08/vatican-archbishop-accuses-francis-cover-up-sex-abuse-mccarrick/) Theodore McCarrick’s sɛҳuąƖ crimes, is currently the darling of the semi-traditionalists who, although they acknowledge him as Pope, loathe Francis and the reign of (t)error (https://novusordowatch.org/francis/) that has been his hallmark since he usurped the Chair of St. Peter on Mar. 13, 2013.
The reason Viganò is so popular with those who consider themselves traditional Catholics and yet believe the Vatican II Sect to be the Catholic Church, is because he speaks out forcefully against Francis and has publicly condemned many of the theological errors propagated by the New Church, even pointing to the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/03/theological-errors-of-vatican2/) as being at the root of it all.
The same can be said, though to a lesser extent, of Dr. Taylor Marshall (https://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2020/04/infiltration-who-is-really-doing-it.html), a larger-than-life “Catholic” author and commentator who wormed his way into the semi-trad landscape in 2018 by suddenly adopting many of the positions popular among semi-trads and by publishing the hack job Infiltration, shrewdly marketed (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/08/assessing-taylor-marshalls-infiltration/) as a great literary accomplishment (we took it apart in our podcast here (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/05/tradcast-027-is-here/) and here (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/07/tradcast-028-is-here/)).
We will return to Marshall later and first turn our attention to Viganò. Let us recall his explosive indictment of Vatican II released in June of this year:
- Viganò lets it rip: Former Vatican Nuncio publishes scathing Condemnation of Vatican II Religion (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/vigano-condemns-vatican2-religion/)
Although that particular missive of his was theologically astute and we acknowledged as much, at the same time Viganò was peddling serious theological errors in a letter he had sent to U.S. President Donald Trump only a day or two prior:
- Dangerous Heresy in attractive Wrapping Paper: “Abp.” Viganò’s Letter to President Trump (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/)
Ironically, Vigano’s theological howlers in this celebrated letter were reminiscent of the Vatican II errors he was denouncing in his other monograph.
It turns out that that was not a one-time gaffe, though, because now the retired nuncio has inserted himself into the public arena again and has done so in a way that should unsettle anyone who considers himself to be a traditional Roman Catholic: This past Saturday, Dec. 12, he participated virtually as a speaker in an interreligious prayer rally that was part of the so-called Jericho March in Washington, D.C. He delivered a pre-recorded video message that ended with a prayer.
Before we examine his words, let’s have a quick look at the nature and goal of the Jericho March. According to the official web site of the organizers:Obviously, then, the Jericho March is a religious event, indeed an interreligious one, whose primary purpose is collective prayer and worship. The religions chiefly being addressed are Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism, and their adherents are all lumped together as a “community of believers.”
The goal of the March on Dec. 12 was announced as follows:The same blurb added: “We will be hearing from national faith leaders, worship leaders, and others.”
Some of those “faith leaders” Viganò shared the stage with included (names, titles, and descriptions taken from Jericho March web site (https://web.archive.org/web/20201209211310/https://jerichomarch.org/2020/12/lt-general-mike-flynn-to-speak-eric-metaxas-to-emcee-at-the-jericho-march-and-stop-the-steal-prayer-rally-on-the-national-mall/)):
- Bishop Strickland, Catholic Diocese of Tyler, Texas (video)
- Dr. Steve Newman, Jєωιѕн patriot
- Dr. Taylor Marshall, Catholic Author and Commentator (video)
- Fr. Frank Pavone, Priests for Life (video)
- Fr. Greg Bramlage, Missionaries of the New Evangelization
- Fr. Hans Jacobse, American Orthodox Institute
- Gail Sheppard and George Michalopulos, Orthodox Christian Religious Commentators
- Kelly Kullberg, Veritas Forum and American Association of Evangelicals
- Rabbi Curt Landry, Curt Landry Ministries
- Rev. Kevin Jessip, The Return, Global Strategic Alliance
The whole event was markedly Zionist. The prayer rally ended with the blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar, a trumpet that calls to repentance and/or to battle. It is a custom that is popular not only among Jews but also among “Christian” Zionists (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/may-web-only/christians-Jєωιѕн-shofar-israel-huckabee.html). One of the shofars used had an Israeli flag wrapped around it, in addition to the American flag.
Regardless of the intentions of the organizers, and regardless of whatever merits there may be to the aim for which the March was held, there can only be one response for a real Roman Catholic to such a syncretistic interreligious prayer event: You must stay away under pain of mortal sin and (at least) suspicion of heresy.
The very concept of an ecuмenical/interreligious church, roaring or not, must be vehemently rejected by a Catholic. In 1868, Pope Pius IX reminded the world that Protestant sects are not part of the Church founded by Christ and are lacking in unity of faith and government. He noted “that such a state of things is directly opposed to the nature of the Church instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ…” (Apostolic Letter Iam Vos Omnes (https://novusordowatch.org/pius9-iam-vos-omnes/)). In 1928, Pope Pius XI again rejected the idea “that the Church in itself, or of its nature, is divided into sections; that is to say, that it is made up of several churches or distinct communities, which still remain separate, and although having certain articles of doctrine in common, nevertheless disagree concerning the remainder…” (Encyclical Mortalium Animos (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm), n. 7). Vigano knows this.
Also, a Catholic must reject the terminology employed by the Jericho March regarding “people of faith”:Now let us examine the brief speech delivered by “Abp.” Viganò, which was shown on a gigantic screen at the prayer rally:
A full transcript of the remarks has been posted at the conservative Novus Ordo web site Life Site (https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/abp-vigano-speech-to-jericho-march). We will only quote the portions we intend to comment on. Vigano begins thus:First, we observe that the people he addresses as “brothers and sisters” are a motley crew of Novus Ordos, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Judaizers, and Jews. Second, it is puzzling that he speaks of the United States as “our beloved Nation”, considering that he is a citizen of Italy, and it has been well over four years that he retired from his role as nuncio to the U.S. Likewise, he subsequently speaks of “our Country and … our President”.
Viganò again makes a reference to the “children of darkness.” We say “again” because he had already introduced the concept in his open letter to President Trump published in June. However, Vigano’s use and understanding of the term and its counterpart — “children of light” — is not orthodox because he uses them in an entirely Naturalist sense and divorces them from the supernatural concept of sanctifying grace (or lack thereof). Our criticism of Vigano’s letter (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/06/heresy-naturalism-in-vigano-letter-to-president-trump/) explains this in some detail.
Further on, Vigano makes clear that he identifies with all of the others participating in the prayer rally, saying: “We are the silent army of the children of Light, the humble ranks who overthrow evil by invoking God, the praying army that walks around the walls of lies and betrayal in order to bring them down.” By speaking in the first person plural — “we” — he is making clear that he considers himself one of them and one with them. This is only consistent with the nature and purpose of the event, which the organizers had announced would be “comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians collectively praying to God”.
So Vigano endorses the idea that the “Catholics”, Orthodox, Protestants, and Jews gathered there to demand election transparency and an end to corruption comprise the “children of light”, similar to how the Chosen People of the Old Covenant together brought down the walls of Jericho by faithfully following God’s orders. Does he not see a theological problem with that?
St. Paul once warned the Ephesians: “Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things [sins he had just enumerated] cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. Be ye not therefore partakers with them. For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light” (Eph 5:6-8). Who are “the children of unbelief” if not non-Catholics — who are contrasted precisely with the “children of the light”?
Vigano, on the other hand, considers the people he is addressing, collectively, to be the people of God, the “roaring church”: “We fight the battles of the Lord with faith and courage, carrying the Ark of the Covenant in our hearts, remaining faithful to the teachings of the Gospel of Our Lord!” Addressing God in prayer, he even refers to everyone gathered as “this army of Thy children”!
So Vigano believes in a church that is comprised not only of Catholics but also of unbelievers of various stripes, who, presumably because they are fighting for a cause Vigano deems worthy, have been promoted by him to the status of “children of light”, “children of God”, and soldiers in God’s army. And this from a man who is widely seen as staunch and unyielding Catholic traditionalist — it defies belief!
All in all, Vigano’s remarks are dangerous, outrageous, absurd, gravely erroneous theologically, and at least implicitly heretical.
What makes matters worse is that Vigano is not simply your average, run-of-the-mill Novus Ordo bishop who simply doesn’t know better. Quite the contrary — he has demonstrated that he has an astute grasp of real Catholic doctrine and the corresponding errors of Vatican II. We recall that in his spectacular condemnation of the Conciliar religion, dated June 9, 2020, the former nuncio lamented:Similarly, in a Sep. 1, 2020 letter to Catholic Family News contributor Stephen Kokx (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/09/viganos-theological-vortex-critical-commentary-part1/), Vigano asserted firmly that “it is clear that no admixture is possible with those who propose adulterated doctrines of the conciliar ideological manifesto….”
So, the question now has to be asked: What happened to all that?! Now he is mixing not only with regular Vatican II believers but also with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews, labeling them children of God, children of light, part of the church, and soldiers in God’s army!
Here are some snapshots from the rest of the rally, which lasted over 4 hours:
(https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-4.png?resize=300%2C193&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-3.png?resize=300%2C235&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-2.png?resize=300%2C201&ssl=1) (https://i0.wp.com/novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/jericho-march-2020-1.png?resize=300%2C175&ssl=1)
Vigano has quite simply condemned himself. He has participated in a thoroughly ecuмenical religious event, one in which not only Protestants (who typically affirm the Holy Trinity) but even Trinity-denying Jews took part. A Dec. 5 press release (https://jerichomarch.org/2020/12/thousands-of-religious-americans-and-patriots-will-flock-to-washington-dc-on-december-12th-to-protest-election-fraud-and-corruption/) for Jericho March stated: “The prayer rally will feature national faith leaders including popular evangelical pastors, Catholic clergy, Jєωιѕн, and Orthodox leaders; political leaders and elected officials; viral social media influencers and top activists from the political sphere; and praise and worship musicians.” It doesn’t get much more ecuмenical than that! And since this was part of the advertisement for the event, it’s not like Vigano didn’t know what he was getting himself into.
The same goes for Taylor Marshall.
Presumably due to his influence and popularity among “conservative Catholics” and traditionalists, Marshall was appointed to the “Catholics for Trump” advisory board (http://web.archive.org/web/20201019230936/https://catholics.donaldjtrump.com/) in July of this year. Like Vigano, he too delivered a few remarks at the prayer rally and led the interreligious crowd in praying the Our Father, via video:
The complete video feed of the entire prayer rally is embedded below. Fr. Vigano’s appearance begins at the 58:42 timestamp. Marshall’s turn comes at 2:47:45:
Clearly, this was not simply a political event. Above all, it was a religious prayer event, and as such it had been advertised.
The blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar came at the very end:
Apparently Vigano and Marshall thought they’d fit right in with all this. Never mind what the Church’s law decrees on the matter, namely:By taking part in an essentially religious assembly in which “Catholics” prayed together with Protestant heretics and Jews, Vigano and Marshall have made themselves suspect of heresy on that count alone. The heresy in question is Indifferentism, “that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, n. 2).
So, where is the outrage from the recognize-and-resist crowd? If such an ecuмenical prayer rally had been held by liberals such as Blaise Cupich or Robert McElroy for some favorite Novus Ordo cause, would The Remnant and similar publications and blogs not be rending their cyber-garments at this point?
And yet, we find the opposite reaction. Like Life Site, the semi-trad newspaper Catholic Family News has happily published Viganò’s address and prayer on its own web site (https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/12/14/let-the-church-roar-archbishop-viganos-address-to-the-jericho-march/), with editor-in-chief Brian McCall endorsing the Jericho March in general and Viganò in particular, calling him “a true shepherd given to our nation.” Why McCall would refer to him in this manner is puzzling, considering that Vigano, who has been retired since 2016 (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop//bvigano.html), has no official role in the entire Vatican II Church, much less in its United States branch specifically.
Of course we know the reason why McCall calls Vigano a “true shepherd”. It is not because the “archbishop” was appointed by the “Pope” to shepherd him and his semi-trad friends but because he happens to agree with what he has to say — “His words were powerful and inspiring”, McCall writes in his introduction –, and so he has personally chosen to accept him as his shepherd. But that is not how teaching and governing authority works in the Roman Catholic Church. The only jurisdiction Vigano exercises is over the titular see of Ulpiana, to which he was appointed on Apr. 3, 1992 (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/d2u07.html), by “Pope” John Paul II. Titular sees are extinct dioceses.
Either way, Vigano and Marshall have a lot of explaining to do. In his 2019 book Infiltration (https://novusordowatch.org/2020/05/tradcast-027-is-here/), Marshall criticizes Vatican II’s Rahnerian theology of the church, which holds that “eyond the Catholic Church is the wider ‘People of God’, who include not just Catholics but all people of goodwill who profess other religions. This theology opens the way … to the religious ecuмenism of Vatican II” (p. 138). Apparently this does not bother Marshall when it comes to a socio-political cause he agrees with.
Some will say that the ecuмenical prayer assembly of the Jericho March was very much like the infamous Assisi interreligious prayer for peace event (https://novusordowatch.org/2014/02/john-paul-assisi-apostasy/) conducted by “Pope” John Paul II (https://novusordowatch.org/john-paul-ii/) in 1986 and 2002. But there is a difference: In Assisi, each of the different religious groups prayed separately, apart from one another; in the ecuмenical “Let the Church Roar” rally, the interreligious prayer was collective and offered as a “community of believers.”
So much for the “traditional Catholicism” of Carlo Maria Viganò and Taylor Marshall.
Talk about infiltration!
Image source: youtube.com (http://youtube.com/) (screenshots)
License: fair use
https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/
I was reading this and remembered this post.
BY FATHER FEENEY
It is a mortal sin for a Catholic priest to participate in an Interfaith meeting. Any Catholic priest who has participated in an Interfaith meeting should go to confession at once, and should accuse himself of a mortal sin, and should promise to amend the scandal he has given, and should assure his confessor that he will never take part in an Interfaith meeting again. If, as a penitent in confession, he does not give this promise and this assurance, the priest who hears his confession should refuse him absolution, or else he, himself, will commit a mortal sin.
It is impossible for any Catholic priest to assist at an Interfaith meeting and not know that it is a mortal sin to do so. A priest who would not know this to be a mortal sin, would simply not know what a mortal sin was at all, either among his own faults or those of his penitents. If participation by a Catholic priest in an Interfaith meeting is not an occasion of sin to be avoided under pain of mortal sin, by reason of the compromise of the Faith, the scandal, and the occasion of sin to others it affords, then nothing in a Catholic’s life could ever be called an occasion of sin, nor could anyone ever be commanded to avoid an occasion of sin.
No bishop can give a priest permission to participate in an Interfaith meeting. Any bishop who does so commits a mortal sin himself, and his permission should not be accepted. It is not lawful in the Catholic Church to commit mortal sin “with permission.” Nor is it lawful for any bishop to command a priest to commit a mortal sin, or to give a scandal.
Every Catholic priest who reads what I now say knows I am telling the truth. I know a priest’s mind. In matters of such fundamental moral observance, a priest needs only to be told the truth in order to see it. I also know the fastidiousness of a priest’s heart in matters connected with sin. Any priest who will pretend to himself, or to others, that what I am now saying is not sound Catholic moral theology will later repent of this. And he will accuse himself in confession of having done wrong. And he should be given a penance proportionate to the heinousness of what he does when he either participates in, or says one may participate in, for any reason whatsoever, an Interfaith meeting, which is the joint presentation of religious beliefs by a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, and a Jєωιѕн rabbi.
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Thank you Anthony.
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:facepalm:
This was a political meeting ... which happened to include Prots and others and has nothing to do with any kind of communicatio in sacris with Prots/Jews. It's similar to the "March for Life" ... which includes all manner of "Christians" and has been attended by Traditional (including SV priests).
For some reason the bitter Trads here seem to never tire of slandering +Vigano.
I don't know if some of you are just idiots (who don't understand the difference between this and actual communicatio in sacris with non-Catholics) or just malicious against +Vigano, or some combination of the two.
Miser who's been thoroughly discredited for having issued one slander after another (each of which has been debunked), falsely accusing +Vigano of heresy, has been committing objectively grave sins here on the forum and has refused to retract anything even after it was completely debunked.
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I was reading this and remembered this post.
Seriously, man, have you not paid any attention to keep posting that trash from Miser that's been completely debunked?
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Seriously, man, have you not paid any attention to keep posting that trash from Miser that's been completely debunked?
It mostly slipped my mind. I will try to remember.
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Vigano for pope!
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Vigano for pope!
He would make a good pope in some respects, but then he'd likely keep the inter-religious gatherings at Assisi going; given his strong support of the Jericho inter-religious gathering.