Author Topic: J’ACCUSE (Read 11193 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #165 on:** July 02, 2024, 02:02:21 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 02, 2024, 01:52:40 PM

You don't want to get into the weeds to explain/discuss theological concepts. You keep saying "it's not complicated". It's not, if you want a summary answer. If you want to UNDERSTAND the concepts and principles involved, then YES, IT IS COMPLICATED.

Quit downplaying theology and it's purpose, in all of this.

Do you think I should say "it's simple" instead. after all, it is certainly the most basic Catholic Theology that there is. I mean, we do not listen to the devil because if we do we will lose, should we not also expect the same if we listen to a heretic?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #166 on:** July 02, 2024, 02:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn on July 02, 2024, 01:39:14 PM

Whether he is the pope or not, one thing is sure, he is a heretic. Do you listen to heretics? No. Being pope does not mean he cannot be a heretic - if we've learned anything these past +60 years, we've learned that popes can be heretics.

Unfortunately, what you've "learned ... these past 60+ years" is heresy. Popes cannot become heretics in their public teaching, their Magisterium. Of those "5 Opinions", they all spoke of the Pope as private person, not in his teaching capacity and in the exercise of his authority. Even then, it's still doubtful whether Popes, even as private persons, can become heretics. St. Robert Bellarmine didn't think so ... as a matter of "pious believe" at least, though he considered it theoretically possible. But maybe these men were never popes in the first place. It'll all eventually get settled. But NONE of the opinions on the matter of the heretic pope ever remotely considered that the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Catholic Church (and the Church's Public Worship) could become corrupt, harmful to souls, and displeasing to God. Period. Why? Because that opinion would be contrary to the essence of Catholicism. If you uproot the divine guarantees regarding the Church and the Papacy, then the Church becomes meaningless.

+Vigano has rightly denounced yours views as heretical and schismatic ... because he hasn't been "learning" for 60 years (the false principles of R&R) like you have.

Stubborn · « **Reply #167 on:** July 02, 2024, 02:16:41 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 02, 2024, 02:05:16 PM

Unfortunately, what you've "learned ... these past 60+ years" is heresy. Popes cannot become heretics in their public teaching, their Magisterium. Of those "5 Opinions", they all spoke of the Pope as private person, not in his teaching capacity and in the exercise of his authority. Even then, it's still doubtful whether Popes, even as private persons, can become heretics. St. Robert Bellarmine didn't think so ... as a matter of "pious believe" at least, though he considered it theoretically possible. But maybe these men were never popes in the first place. It'll all eventually get settled. But NONE of the opinions on the matter of the heretic pope ever remotely considered that the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Catholic Church (and the Church's Public Worship) could become corrupt, harmful to souls, and displeasing to God. Period. Why? Because that opinion would be contrary to the essence of Catholicism. If you uproot the divine guarantees regarding the Church and the Papacy, then the Church becomes meaningless.

+Vigano has rightly denounced yours views as heretical and schismatic ... because he hasn't been "learning" for 60 years (the false principles of R&R) like you have.

You're a living contradiction.

+Vigano, God bless him, was NO through and through. Like you, he has yet to purge some (many?) of his liberal ideas the NO taught him. As such, like you, he concerns himself, and wants to concern everyone else, with the status of the pope and make it a major issue just as if that's going to accomplish something. News flash - it won't. That's just how Supreme Authority on earth works. Deny it all you want, stomp your feet and slap your belly, but it will accomplish nothing except further division. You should have learned that much since you left the NO.

Comrade · « **Reply #168 on:** July 02, 2024, 08:48:25 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 02, 2024, 02:05:16 PM

Unfortunately, what you've "learned ... these past 60+ years" is heresy. Popes cannot become heretics in their public teaching, their Magisterium. Of those "5 Opinions", they all spoke of the Pope as private person, not in his teaching capacity and in the exercise of his authority. Even then, it's still doubtful whether Popes, even as private persons, can become heretics. St. Robert Bellarmine didn't think so ... as a matter of "pious believe" at least, though he considered it theoretically possible. But maybe these men were never popes in the first place. It'll all eventually get settled. But NONE of the opinions on the matter of the heretic pope ever remotely considered that the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Catholic Church (and the Church's Public Worship) could become corrupt, harmful to souls, and displeasing to God. Period. Why? Because that opinion would be contrary to the essence of Catholicism. If you uproot the divine guarantees regarding the Church and the Papacy, then the Church becomes meaningless.

+Vigano has rightly denounced yours views as heretical and schismatic ... because he hasn't been "learning" for 60 years (the false principles of R&R) like you have.

To simplify this well written statement: "It's the Magisterium, stupid"

Catholic Knight · « **Reply #169 on:** July 06, 2024, 11:24:45 AM »

Ladislaus · « **Reply #170 on:** July 06, 2024, 11:38:02 AM »

Fr. Kramer needs to read up on Sedeprivationism ... as it should solve his problem for him. Of course he lacks the authority to make any declaration of schism or to impose his view on consciences. But without the proper constrains placed upon the ipso facto mentality, whereby Fr. Cekada's "Aunt Helen" can wake up one morning and decided that the See is vacant upon finding heresy in the pope's teaching, it reduces to absurdity, and the chaos in the Church that John of St. Thomas warned about. I woke up to this problem with SVism when a man I knew declared Pius IX to be a non-pope (based on his distortion of his teaching), and there are others out there who hold Pius XI, Pius XII, and even St. Pius X to have been non-popes ... a problem that I termed "Pope-Sifting". Sedeprivationism (or Chazal-ism) provides the proper balance between ipso facto deposition by God and the place for the Church's authority to vacate the office (or designation to office). It's the only viable theological solution.

I had been with then-Father Sanborn for some time, but then ran into the wall of this problem, at which point I wrote (an an informal e-mail to a friend that somehow got published in The Angelus) "Pope-Sifiting: Difficulties with Sedevacantism". I didn't have a solution yet for this problem. Strangely, eventually both Father, then-Bishop, Sanborn and I ended up in the same place (following much different routes), at sedeprivationism.

Sneedevacantist · « **Reply #171 on:** July 06, 2024, 08:56:41 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on June 29, 2024, 03:55:55 PM

And here they are making great use of the $50 million seminary, ordaining 5 priests, only 3 of whom are Americans. That's barely as many as the old STAS.

https://fsspx.news/en/news/united-states-ordinations-st-thomas-aquinas-seminary-2024-45985

Last year was even worse. Only two priests were ordained...

Author Topic: J’ACCUSE (Read 11193 times)

Stubborn

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Ladislaus

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Stubborn

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Comrade

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Catholic Knight

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Ladislaus

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Sneedevacantist

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