Author Topic: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross  (Read 1342 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2018, 12:54:28 AM »
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  • .
    There are a lot of images online of the history of this weirdo cross and the tragedy it caused.
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    See those two end grain boards at the top of the failure?
    Yeah, those two boards.
    What the hell are they doing there like that?
    You can see where they were before the failure
    (they're starting to open up all ready)
    COULDN'T BE IN A WORSE PLACE.
    PERIOD.
    An accident waiting to happen.
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    Just before the piece of **** failed
    You don't even need an engineer -- any decent carpenter could have told them
    THAT SPOT WITH TWO END JOINTS AT A CRITICAL STRESS POINT IS GOING TO FAIL
    Lo and Behold, that's exactly what happened.
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    Those engineers had a lot of 'splainin to do.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #16 on: August 23, 2018, 12:57:45 AM »
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  • I don't know if it is just me, but I sense something repulsive about it.

    I think it is ugly and do not like it.
    It makes me dizzy.  I do not like it either.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 03:27:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat on Yesterday at 07:06:00 PM
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    It is made with the deliberate intention of making it appear that

    the Corpus hangs down vertically from a cross which is horizontal.

    (That is, the normally vertical post of the cross has been placed horizontal)

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    I don't know if you can explain this statement in another way, but I don't get it.
    Isn't the Corpus supposed to be hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Isn't that correct?
    I'm obviously not seeing what you are, but I'd like to understand.
    (The problem is, the entire cross is horizontal, not just the cross beam.)
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    Is this corpus hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Which way is gravity pulling? See how the hair hangs down?
    Now, obviously the trunk area ought to be dangling down too, but then it wouldn't look AT ALL like a crucifix.
    In fact, we know what's holding that section in place: four 3/4 inch bolts, 22 inches long. (see below)
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    This is nothing but a side view of your home poster version from Dali.
    Only difference is Dali's cross is floating in the air with no visible means of support.
    But in a few minutes that one above won't have any support either, which is why it fell down.
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    Here's the front view of the same thing, just darker clouds in the sky:
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    Think of it this way:  It was a pretty dark day for Marco Gusmini, when he ^looked up^ and saw this coming down on his head.
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    BTW 600 kg falling from 30 feet was too much kinetic energy for the 22-inch bolts, so they pulled out on impact:
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    See -- the bolts sticking out of the would-be vertical post?
    They just got yanked out of the lower back area of the corpus.

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    Trivia question:
    Comparing the two corpuses, the Dali and the statue by Enrico Job (which fell down killing Marco Gusmini) what is the only difference other than one has nails in the hands and feet and the other has no nails?
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 05:19:13 AM »
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  • What I find disturbing about the Dali cross is that it is floating above, and not rooted in, the earth. 

    This is not the Cross of Jesus.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 08:12:24 AM »
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  • .
    I didn't want to duplicate the OP's image again since it's already seen twice on this first page.
    But since you're the author, you're the one with this picture hanging in your home.
    So you ought to know what it looks like.
    Do you mean to say that in all the times you've seen it you didn't realize it was facing downwar
    Well, my prior understanding was that the viewer was above ( kind of Like the Father's viewpoint of the  Crucifixion in "The Passion of the Christ" movie. I knew the bottom of the cross was angled back, but I thought it in keeping with the curvature of the earth ( Aarrgggh- don't want that argument right now!). I didn't realize that this perspective would be a face-down, horizontal Christ to those on the earth.
    I'm glad I posted, I'm getting rid of it. I guess I sensed it for a while anyway, but I needed new eyes to see it for me.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #20 on: August 23, 2018, 02:19:42 PM »
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  • Well, my prior understanding was that the viewer was above (kind of Like the Father's viewpoint of the Crucifixion in "The Passion of the Christ" movie). I knew the bottom of the cross was angled back, but I thought it in keeping with the curvature of the earth (Aarrgggh- don't want that argument right now!). I didn't realize that this perspective would be a face-down, horizontal Christ to those on the earth.

    I'm glad I posted, I'm getting rid of it. I guess I sensed it for a while anyway, but I needed new eyes to see it for me.

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    Sorry for not understanding your impression, but it never once occurred to me, even when I first saw this Dali painting over 40 years ago, that the cross was standing from a base buried in the ground. The sky and clouds depicted all behind the base clearly told me from the very first instant, that this cross was being presented as one floating in the sky and not whatsoever attached to the earth. And I've never met anyone else who had any other impression. For crying out loud, you can even see sunrays coming down from the clouds which means the sun must be high above them.

    So you caught me entirely blind-sided. I had no idea that anyone could ever think this was a view looking downward to the earth, because there is no sky or clouds on the ground when viewed from above. This cross has always appeared to me as floating in the air horizontally (instead of upright) with gravity pulling the corpus (and hair) downward -- even though the trunk region is mysteriously attached to the cross, which is not something I have any inclination to hypothesize or speculate on. Perhaps a Sodomite would feel otherwise. I have no idea. Nor do I care.
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    The lighting is a puzzle, too. From the shadowing on the cross one sees the sun (or whatever it is that shines light) is to the right, and must be BELOW the level of the cross, since the left shoulder casts a shadow upward to the crossbeam.
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    HOWEVER, keeping in mind that direction to the light source (presuming it ought to be the sun but that might be too much presumption!), look at the clouds in the distance seen under or behind the base of the cross. If I wanted to depict clouds in the sky illumined by a sun that is located in the distance and direction indicated by the shadows on the cross, I would not show these clouds looking like that. These clouds give me the impression that the sun is high ABOVE these clouds and shining DOWN on them, much like the clearing clouds after a storm appear at mid-day. The clouds' highlights are above and the clouds' shadows are below, which are quite contrary to the shadows on the cross. So Dali wasn't making a mistake. He was trying to give the viewer a CONFLICT of perception, such that what is normal would be all turned around, and what we should expect to see is instead refuted, abrogated, denied. He wants to uproot you from your normal world and insert you into an entirely alien way of thinking. That would be an achievement for him, the artist, leading you to an entirely unexpected perception of something or better yet, EVERYTHING.
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    It is a painting that depicts the refusal to accept the normal, established, traditional view of the world or, in this case, of the Crucifixion of Our Lord. It tells you to uproot all your preconceptions and set foot into a new reality that gives you an outlook you have never before imagined. Any Sodomite would be delighted! And that is supposed to be somehow desirable?
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    Even after all that, there's still the missing nails (means it's not a crucifix because the nails are a necessity) and no INRI (ditto).
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    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema (Galatians 1:8 ).
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #21 on: August 23, 2018, 03:06:55 PM »
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  • Dear Neil-
    I never thought or said the Cross was planted in the ground- I knew this cross was suspended in the sky-just said I didn't get the visual impression that the cross was horizontal and facing down.  I knew the base of the cross was not vertical. My impression was that it was tilted backwards (the base), and since I could see the top of Christ's head and the back of His shoulders I surmised that I was looking at it from the top down.
    The actual picture show a layer of clouds "beneath" the cross and the bottom of the picture shows  a body of water with fisherman and a boat. I guess that could be interpreted to be the Sea of Galilee.
    I see what everyone means about the picture, and I agree. I obviously had my doubts or I wouldn't have ask for an opinion. It is NOT a traditional work of art, I get it. The "unique perspective" I
    admired may very well be a "perverse perspective"- I would certainly reject that. And no, I am not a sodomite or even a sympathizer-lol.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #22 on: August 23, 2018, 04:45:31 PM »
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  • .
    So it's clear what we're talking about -- the whole picture looks like this:
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    The sea of Galilee is far too large for hills to be seen on the other side of the sea.
    The River Jordan is this wide in places.
    This is a small lake.
    Perhaps Pyramid lake or Lake Arrowhead, but not the sea of Galilee.

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    Other crucifixion works by Dali:
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    None of them are crucifixes. They all have essential elements missing, INRI, nails, or attachment to the cross, or all three.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Salvatore Dali- Christ of St John of the Cross
    « Reply #23 on: August 23, 2018, 05:03:24 PM »
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  • Yes, those are really awful


     

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