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(https://i.etsystatic.com/15782933/r/il/2290e8/1316389453/il_570xN.1316389453_5ewf.jpg)
I love this picture and its unique perspective and have a large print of it in my home, but for the past few months, it has bothered me that there are no wounds ( or nails) in Jesus' hands and feet, no INRI or anything written on the posting above His head and no Crown of Thorns. I know this is an artist's representation and Dali was a surrealist, but I wouldn't want to dishonor Our Lord's image in any way.
Also , I have seen Dali's photo when he was in attendance at one of those "eyes wide shut" Illuminati parties in the '70's. I know Caravaggio was a criminal and possibly a murderer but I consider him the greatest artist of all in his depictions of the life of Christ -so I am conflicted.
Should I get rid of this print or am I being too scrupulous?
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(https://i.etsystatic.com/15782933/r/il/2290e8/1316389453/il_570xN.1316389453_5ewf.jpg)
I love this picture and its unique perspective and have a large print of it in my home, but for the past few months, it has bothered me that there are no wounds ( or nails) in Jesus' hands and feet, no INRI or anything written on the posting above His head and no Crown of Thorns. I know this is an artist's representation and Dali was a surrealist, but I wouldn't want to dishonor Our Lord's image in any way.
Also , I have seen Dali's photo when he was in attendance at one of those "eyes wide shut" Illuminati parties in the '70's. I know Caravaggio was a criminal and possibly a murderer but I consider him the greatest artist of all in his depictions of the life of Christ -so I am conflicted.
Should I get rid of this print or am I being too scrupulous?
I wouldn't put it in your home sanctuary or altar, or pray over it. But I wouldn't throw it out, keep it in a bedroom or hallway. I like Dali even though I hate modern art. I would consider surrealism to be modern art, but Dali most likely from his Catholic culture seems to have a certain element that is decent (in most paintings, some are trash).
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Like Picasso, he was talented enough to produce excellent art, but rarely did.
He is most known for appealing to college potheads.
For me, I could care less about his good art, since his reputation and bad art color my judgment of it:
Since true art is the external manifestation of an internal vision of reality, I deliberately NEVER separate the art from the artist as most critics would; I believe doing so cripples, rather than enhances, a deeper understanding and insights into the end product: Incorporate the whole man into your appraisal, and you will hit closer to the mark of what the artist intended.
Kind of like reading the notorious sodomite Oscar Wilde (whom the SSPX had the bad sense to have their school kids perform one of his plays), whom later converted:
I don't really care that he converted (except from the perspective of supernatural charity):
He said "The only way to fight temptation is to give in to it" (and many other scandalous things).
They put that quote on a cheese here that appeals to the fαɢs here in the grocery stores.
Long story short (and a message to the SSPX woven in):
There is so much other good, Catholic art out there, that it is not necessary to try sifting pearls from the dung-heap (and it makes me wonder why there are so many attempts to do it).
The painting you posted by Dali, in and of itself, is just "ok."
I doubt he had any theological intentions by omitting the nails, but who knows.
Nevertheless, I would never hang his work in my house (just like I would never have an Oscar Wilde book on my shelves).
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...it has bothered me that there are no wounds (or nails) in Jesus' hands and feet, no INRI or anything written on the posting above His head and no Crown of Thorns.
Should I get rid of this print or am I being too scrupulous?
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You can very easily add nails, blood, crown of thorns, INRI, and some scourging scars, all of which are missing.
(BTW it's not overly scrupulous to realize that without the INRI and the nails and the crown of thorns, it's not a crucifix.)
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But that's not going to resolve the basic problem with this work.
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It is made with the deliberate intention of making it appear that
the Corpus hangs down vertically from a cross which is horizontal.
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IOW it is a distortion of the truth, and it evokes an inappropriate appetite in the viewer - to be overly imaginative regarding this.
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There is already far too much incomprehensibility for us regarding the REAL Crucifixion, we don't need whacko distortions.
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Pick up a copy of St. John of the Cross's works on the Crucifixion of Our Lord, but I have to warn you:
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I know people who have been so entirely consumed by his writings they find they can hardly think of anything else.
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But one thing is for sure: I've never met one who admires St. John's works who also admires this picture you have on the wall.
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You can very easily add nails, blood, crown of thorns, INRI, and some scourging scars, all of which are missing.
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But that's not going to resolve the basic problem with this work.
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It is made with the deliberate intention of making it appear that the Corpus hangs down vertically from a cross which is horizontal.
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IOW it is a distortion of the truth, and it evokes an inappropriate appetite in the viewer - to be overly imaginative regarding this.
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There is already far too much incomprehensibility for us regarding the REAL Crucifixion, we don't need whacko distortions.
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Pick up a copy of St. John of the Cross's works on the Crucifixion of Our Lord, but I have to warn you:
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I know people who have been so entirely consumed by his writings they find they can hardly think of anything else.
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But one thing is for sure: I've never met one who admires St. John's works who also admires this picture you have on the wall.
Hmm...
Well, I have to say that is an interesting insight.
Never thought about the vertical/horizontal thing before.
But strangely, now I can't shake it.
Kudos.
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It looks like the cross has a kink.
I would burn it.
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I can't vouch for the popularity of this work specifically, but from my own personal experience, the works of Dali in particular and images that twist traditional themes in this manner and other manners are very attractive to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs. They have a disordered attraction to everything queer or strange or perverted, in any way whatsoever. If it's bizarre, they have a hankering for it.
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So I would be very slow to form any attachment to this particular image. I'm not saying it's indecent or obviously evil or in bad taste. All I'm saying is it takes a very important subject that has innumerable excellent examples of fine art depicting it, and tries to "break the mold" as it were by presenting a whole new perspective.
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Not that it's necessarily a bad thing to take a new approach to something, but you have to consider all the aspects.
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Maybe I'm not doing a good job with this. But I would suggest you take this picture to your priest and ask him what to do. Best yet, take it to your confessor. That would be the best way of answering the problem of what to do with it.
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I have an example that might seem to be off-topic, but I don't think it is.
I knew a boy who took an art class at a Catholic high school in the early 70's.
It was a school run by the Salesians of Don Bosco.
There was an assignment to make a casting of some design in concrete to make a stepping stone, effectively.
No specifications were given except the physical dimensions, it was something like 15 inches square by 4 thick.
So this one boy, who was slightly light in the loafers so to speak, came up with this design that had half the face of
David Bowie
on the top, kind of facing downward
not unlike this Dali crucifixion image does
but with the key feature of a single tear under one eye, falling
Kind of like this:
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi-d-images.vice.com%2Fimages%2F2017%2F08%2F01%2Fphotographing-david-bowie-at-age-20-body-image-1501616442.jpg&sp=e2a2ad3642dd6e5d209871cf1446a5c2)
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Salesian brothers ran the class.
The boy watched them for their reaction when he turned in the project.
Later, I heard him describe with pride how the brothers' look at "that tear" was worth a million bucks.
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The point is, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs get a big thrill out of shocking people with their oddities.
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Maybe I'm not doing a good job with this. But I would suggest you take this picture to your priest and ask him what to do. Best yet, take it to your confessor. That would be the best way of answering the problem of what to do with it.
There were times when priests were sent by bishops which were authorized via apostolic succession by our Lord. Today (given what SSPX Bernard Tissier de Mallerais states) I myself authorize the priest or the bishop. Well then, if I am the one authorizing the priest or bishop, then I am superior and my own decision about what to do with the picture is preferable.
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I have an example that might seem to be off-topic, but I don't think it is.
I knew a boy who took an art class at a Catholic high school in the early 70's.
It was a school run by the Salesians of Don Bosco.
There was an assignment to make a casting of some design in concrete to make a stepping stone, effectively.
No specifications were given except the physical dimensions, it was something like 15 inches square by 4 thick.
So this one boy, who was slightly light in the loafers so to speak, came up with this design that had half the face of
David Bowie
on the top, kind of facing downward
not unlike this Dali crucifixion image does
but with the key feature of a single tear under one eye, falling
Kind of like this:
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi-d-images.vice.com%2Fimages%2F2017%2F08%2F01%2Fphotographing-david-bowie-at-age-20-body-image-1501616442.jpg&sp=e2a2ad3642dd6e5d209871cf1446a5c2)
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Salesian brothers ran the class.
The boy watched them for their reaction when he turned in the project.
Later, I heard him describe with pride how the brothers' look at "that tear" was worth a million bucks.
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The point is, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs get a big thrill out of shocking people with their oddities.
The teardrop thing is interesting; I found this:
7. Teardrop
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photogallery/prison-tattoo-field-guide/teardrop.jpg)
One of the most common criminal tattoos is the teardrop underneath the eye, think Lil Wayne.
The most widely accepted meaning of the teardrop is the wearer has killed someone. The teardrop can also mean that the wearer is mourning the loss of a family member. A clear teardrop, like the one pictured, can mean that the wearer has committed an attempted murder, or alternatively, that a close friend or family member was killed and the wearer is seeking revenge.
Read more: http://www.realclear.com/offbeat/2014/07/24/7_most_notorious_prison_tattoos_what_they_mean_8023.html#ixzz5OxvgmN6Y (http://www.realclear.com/offbeat/2014/07/24/7_most_notorious_prison_tattoos_what_they_mean_8023.html#ixzz5OxvgmN6Y)
and this:
"The teardrop tattoo or tear tattoo is a symbolic tattoo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo) of a tear (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears) that is placed underneath the eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye). The teardrop is one of the most widely recognised prison tattoos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_tattooing)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-1) and has various meanings.
It can signify that the wearer has spent time in prison;[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-2) or more specifically that the wearer was raped while incarcerated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape) and tattooed by the rapist as a "property" mark and for humiliation, since facial tattoos cannot be concealed.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-mexconnect-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-meaning-4)
It can acknowledge the loss of a family or fellow gang member;[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-Bakir-5) the tattoo is sometimes worn by the female companions of prisoners in solidarity with their loved ones.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-6) Amy Winehouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Winehouse) had a teardrop tattooed to mark her distress at husband Blake Fielder-Civil remaining on remand at Pentonville Prison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentonville_Prison).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-guardian-7) US rappers The Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(rapper)) and Lil Wayne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Wayne) have teardrop tattoos signifying the death of friends,[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-8)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-guardian-7) and basketball player Amar'e Stoudemire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar%27e_Stoudemire) has had a teardrop tattoo since 2012 honoring his older brother Hazell Jr., who died in a car accident.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-9)
In some cases, it may signify that the wearer has killed someone.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-regret-10) Sometimes the exact meaning of the tattoo is only known by the wearer.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-Bakir-5)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-11) The tattoo's meaning also can change depending on whether the tear is empty or is filled with ink.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo#cite_note-regret-10)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo
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It is made with the deliberate intention of making it appear that
the Corpus hangs down vertically from a cross which is horizontal.
I don't know if you can explain this statement in another way , but I don't get it. Isn't the Corpus supposed to be hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Isn't that correct?
I'm obviously not seeing what you are, but I'd like to understand.
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I don't know if it is just me, but I sense something repulsive about it.
I think it is ugly and do not like it.
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Since true art is the external manifestation of an internal vision of reality, I deliberately NEVER separate the art from the artist as most critics would; I believe doing so cripples, rather than enhances, a deeper understanding and insights into the end product: Incorporate the whole man into your appraisal, and you will hit closer to the mark of what the artist intended.
I agree. This is a very good point.
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I don't know if you can explain this statement in another way , but I don't get it. Isn't the Corpus supposed to be hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Isn't that correct?
I'm obviously not seeing what you are, but I'd like to understand.
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I didn't want to duplicate the OP's image again since it's already seen twice on this first page.
But since you're the author, you're the one with this picture hanging in your home.
So you ought to know what it looks like.
Do you mean to say that in all the times you've seen it you didn't realize it was facing downward?
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The crossbeam of a crucifix is always horizontal (unless some modern wise guy shows it otherwise).
But the Dali image has the front face of the crossbeam facing downwards.
As in down -- down to earth? Terrestrial (maybe Jesus was not terrestrial)? Toward the underworld?
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It's just weird.
What would you think if the priest during Benediction bent over to face the floor with the monstrance?
Do you understand yet?
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There is a known fact in post-Dali sculpture (if you could call it that) where the crucifix (as it were) faced downward.
It was used at a big outdoor "mass" with JPII at the helm, in Italy.
Then the cross (wasn't really a crucifix, had no INRI) was moved to a public park.
Some years later, while a large group of children gathered under it, it fell down.
One disabled man wasn't quick enough to run away so he got crushed to death.
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Maybe you remember the story?
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April 24th, 2014, 9 years after JPII died, a huge cross erected in a public park bearing the name of JPII, fell down killing a man.
Perhaps this should tell the world that God doesn't approve of crosses facing the ground, or of the so-called canonization of JPII?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/john-paul-ii-crucifix-kills-man_n_5206712.html
Just two days before the canonization of Pope John Paul II, a giant crucifix erected in his honor collapsed in Italy, crushing a young man and killing him, according to ANSA (http://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2014/04/24/john-paul-ii-crucifix-crushes-young-man_30dc3065-58b1-4ad5-93e1-ceb9abc71f86.html).
(https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/1757771/images/n-CROSS-628x314.jpg)
The 30-meter (98-foot) high wooden crucifix [cross] fell down during an event near the village of Cevo, in northern Italy, instantly killing the 21-year-old man, Marco Gusmini. The Jesus Christ figure attached to the cross is six meters high [if it were positioned upright, but it was lying face down so that it was only about 3 meters tall -- but after it fell, it was just two meters tall] and weighs 600 kg, according to AFP (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/24/giant-john-paul-ii-crucifix-falls-and-instantly-crushes-young-man-to-death-in-italy/).
Witnesses reported (http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2014/04/24/wojtyla-santo-croce-uccide-ventenne_n_5205670.html?utm_hp_ref=italy&just_reloaded=1) that the victim was part of a visiting group of young Catholics, and another person was hospitalized for minor injuries after the cross fell.
The curved crucifix [cross] was designed by sculptor Enrico Job in honor of John Paul II’s visit to Brescia in northern Italy’s Lombardy region in 1998 [see pic at bottom]. It was installed in a scenic location near Cevo in 2005. The unusual curve of the crucifix [cross] was intended to evoke the scars of WWII, according to AFP. (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/24/giant-john-paul-ii-crucifix-falls-and-instantly-crushes-young-man-to-death-in-italy/) [The "scars of WWII?" How does that work? Some scars are not curved.]
The cross before it fell looked pretty bad too:
(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1375661/wooden-cross.jpg?w=440&e=1b4e16bfd0fa932ad5f61bf37c7c1cc7)
You know the Italian engineers were worried about it falling down because you can see the bracing cables behind it.
The wood curving base of the cross broke right in the middle of the curve on the left side, right where erosion by rain and sunshine would be the worst and the stress from the 600 Kg corpus plus all that heavy wood certainly should have been a danger sign.
Even before it was in this park, in its first installation it was a cross facing downward:
(https://s15-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Freligiondocbox.com%2Fdocs-images%2F75%2F72621869%2Fimages%2F6-0.jpg&sp=1b7a80ef3940cb62e038d092b7891e21)
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The above image comes from a "Chiesa viva" site (Fr. Luigi Villa) with the headline:
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The Diabolical Secret of the Crucifix of Cevo
http://religiondocbox.com/Christianity/72621869-The-diabolical-secret-of-the.html (http://religiondocbox.com/Christianity/72621869-The-diabolical-secret-of-the.html)
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbergamo.corriere.it%2Fmethode_image%2F2014%2F04%2F25%2FBergamo%2FFoto%2520Bergamo%2520-%2520Trattate%2Ffoto%283%29-kieD-U430101839133003Z9B-1224x916%40Corriere-Web-Bergamo.JPG%3Fv%3D20140425094833&sp=c4bb7560b960ebcb671d0610bd237647)
Marco Gusmini, age 21, man killed instantly by JPII cross.
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(https://immagini.quotidiano.net/?url=http://p1014p.quotidiano.net:80/polopoly_fs/1.3735889.1519107775!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/wide_680/image.jpg&h=348&w=621)
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"The Collapse of the Cross of Job"
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https://www.ilgiorno.it/brescia/cronaca/crollo-croce-cevo-1.3735890
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Brescia, 20 February 2018 - "With regular checks we could have realized how the building was getting worse". To underline the consultants of the Brescia prosecutor during the new hearing of the trial for the death of Marco Gusmini, the 21 year old of Lovere was killed on April 24, 2014 in Cevo by the collapse of the cross of Job, the crucifix built in 1998 for the visit of Pope John Paul II and placed in 2005 on the Dosso where the tragedy occurred. For the death of Gusmini in the last months at the end of the trial celebrated with the abbreviated procedure, he was sentenced to one year of imprisonment. Ivan Scolari, technician of the Municipality of Cevo. Silvio Citroni, the mayor of the center of Val Camonica, has negotiated a year and two months. While he was acquitted Mauro Bazzana, the first citizen in office in 2005 when the cross was installed. Renato Zanoni, the director of the works that led to the 2005 installation, Marco Maffessoli, president of the Pope's Cross Association, Don Filippo Stefani (parish priest of Cevo), Elsa Belotti and Lino Balotti, also representatives of the association that had the obligation to verify the periodic maintenance of the wood of the cross.
For the latter three initially the pm Caty Bressanelli had requested the filing, but the gup had accepted the opposition to the provision filed by the parents of Marco Gusmini deciding the indictment. At trial, the abbreviated rite will open on Thursday, including two other priests. This is Don Santo Chiappaprini (zonal vicar), Monsignor Ivo Panteghini (head of the Curia Assets of Brescia) for whom the prosecution had requested archiving, but meeting the negative opinion of the Court of Brescia called into question by the victim's parents.
"The collapse of the cross occurred because in the upper section of the building (30 meters tall, like a condominium, ed) water had infiltrated - yesterday during their deposition the engineers Francesco Passi and Dario Bianchetti, the prosecutors consultants who they were able to observe the cross after the collapse by taking all the construction docuмents in hand - To be aware of the humidity present in the artifact they needed exams to be carried out at least once every six months, but no one in 2005 at the time of the new installation conditions of the cross left dismantled on the ground for seven years".
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I used the autotranslate feature to render this from Italian into English.
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There are a lot of images online of the history of this weirdo cross and the tragedy it caused.
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-diBBybAUVXc%2FU17PDr5QScI%2FAAAAAAAAHFg%2FarkDFz7kuls%2Fs1600%2FPapal%2BCross%2B3.jpg&sp=af9986a9ebfcec19702c810741efd388)
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(https://s15-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-iQmHAh8Ltb8%2FU17PPAw3SdI%2FAAAAAAAAHFo%2FIyFhTRYdYLw%2Fs1600%2FStatue%2Bof%2BChrist.jpg&sp=b51f2977b74ec25ff2364f6e06566b06)
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Flightstorage.ecodibergamo.it%2Fmediaon%2Fcms.quotidiani%2Fstorage%2Fsite_media%2Fmedia%2Fphotologue%2F2016%2F11%2F1%2Fphotos%2Fcache%2Fsi-ricostruisce-la-croce-di-cevoi-genitori-non-intitolatela-a-marco_aa1f5a40-a00e-11e6-9c58-acc90ff43a6c_998_397_big_story_detail.jpg&sp=61bfb6bc5111bb1e96ff24c6c8b990ca)
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2F2.citynews-bresciatoday.stgy.ovh%2F~media%2Foriginal-hi%2F58043587503315%2Fmarco-4.jpg&sp=44bdeab8dac6a461a8212c4da0f095cf)
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.thinkinghousewife.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Fcroce-combo-U43010693791009zy-U430101823404938DtH-593x443@Corriere-Web-Brescia.jpg&sp=416e1112f65a7b478a4253581867ddeb)
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Flightstorage.ecodibergamo.it%2Fmediaon%2Fcms.quotidiani%2Fstorage%2Fsite_media%2Fmedia%2Fphotologue%2F2014%2F5%2F13%2Fphotos%2Fcache%2Fil-crollo-della-croce-in-val-camonica-indagati-in-13-per-la-morte-di-m_c27512de-dacb-11e3-9737-bd9f321ff536_new_rect_medium.jpg&sp=d65517e6df4eb171926aa046ab1852bf)
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Flightstorage.ecodibergamo.it%2Fmediaon%2Fcms.quotidiani%2Fstorage%2Fsite_media%2Fmedia%2Fphotologue%2F2014%2F9%2F17%2Fphotos%2Fcache%2Fla-croce-di-cevo-che-uccise-marcochiesto-il-dissequestro-dellarea_94e0682a-3e6a-11e4-ac20-957d603e1f61_cougar_image.jpg&sp=09a0e595448e5bb35aa0318505e21bc8)
See those two end grain boards at the top of the failure?
Yeah, those two boards.
What the hell are they doing there like that?
You can see where they were before the failure
(they're starting to open up all ready)
COULDN'T BE IN A WORSE PLACE.
PERIOD.
An accident waiting to happen.
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Flightstorage.ecodibergamo.it%2Fmediaon%2Fcms.quotidiani%2Fstorage%2Fsite_media%2Fmedia%2Fphotologue%2F2014%2F5%2F6%2Fphotos%2Fcache%2Fsopralluogo-dove-e-morto-marcoi-genitori-a-cevo-per-ricordarlo_067ff3e4-d492-11e3-9bfd-236a39ff65c1_cougar_image.jpg&sp=830c30058bf5bc22bf02cddd9d46befe)
Just before the piece of **** failed
You don't even need an engineer -- any decent carpenter could have told them
THAT SPOT WITH TWO END JOINTS AT A CRITICAL STRESS POINT IS GOING TO FAIL
Lo and Behold, that's exactly what happened.
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Those engineers had a lot of 'splainin to do.
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I don't know if it is just me, but I sense something repulsive about it.
I think it is ugly and do not like it.
It makes me dizzy. I do not like it either.
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Quote from: Neil Obstat on Yesterday at 07:06:00 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/salvatore-dali-christ-of-st-john-of-the-cross/msg623492/#msg623492)
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It is made with the deliberate intention of making it appear that
the Corpus hangs down vertically from a cross which is horizontal.
(That is, the normally vertical post of the cross has been placed horizontal)
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I don't know if you can explain this statement in another way, but I don't get it.
Isn't the Corpus supposed to be hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Isn't that correct?
I'm obviously not seeing what you are, but I'd like to understand.
(The problem is, the entire cross is horizontal, not just the cross beam.)
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Is this corpus hanging vertically from the horizontal cross beam? Which way is gravity pulling? See how the hair hangs down?
Now, obviously the trunk area ought to be dangling down too, but then it wouldn't look AT ALL like a crucifix.
In fact, we know what's holding that section in place: four 3/4 inch bolts, 22 inches long. (see below)
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(https://s15-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.quibrescia.it%2Fcms%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fcroce-Cevo.jpg&sp=258f28bab0a37061f3ebd8723fae2167)
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This is nothing but a side view of your home poster version from Dali.
Only difference is Dali's cross is floating in the air with no visible means of support.
But in a few minutes that one above won't have any support either, which is why it fell down.
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Here's the front view of the same thing, just darker clouds in the sky:
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(https://i.etsystatic.com/15782933/r/il/2290e8/1316389453/il_570xN.1316389453_5ewf.jpg)
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Think of it this way: It was a pretty dark day for Marco Gusmini, when he ^looked up^ and saw this coming down on his head.
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BTW 600 kg falling from 30 feet was too much kinetic energy for the 22-inch bolts, so they pulled out on impact:
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.thinkinghousewife.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Fcroce-combo-U43010693791009zy-U430101823404938DtH-593x443@Corriere-Web-Brescia.jpg&sp=416e1112f65a7b478a4253581867ddeb)
See -- the bolts sticking out of the would-be vertical post?
They just got yanked out of the lower back area of the corpus.
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Trivia question:
Comparing the two corpuses, the Dali and the statue by Enrico Job (which fell down killing Marco Gusmini) what is the only difference other than one has nails in the hands and feet and the other has no nails?
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What I find disturbing about the Dali cross is that it is floating above, and not rooted in, the earth.
This is not the Cross of Jesus.
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I didn't want to duplicate the OP's image again since it's already seen twice on this first page.
But since you're the author, you're the one with this picture hanging in your home.
So you ought to know what it looks like.
Do you mean to say that in all the times you've seen it you didn't realize it was facing downwar
Well, my prior understanding was that the viewer was above ( kind of Like the Father's viewpoint of the Crucifixion in "The Passion of the Christ" movie. I knew the bottom of the cross was angled back, but I thought it in keeping with the curvature of the earth ( Aarrgggh- don't want that argument right now!). I didn't realize that this perspective would be a face-down, horizontal Christ to those on the earth.
I'm glad I posted, I'm getting rid of it. I guess I sensed it for a while anyway, but I needed new eyes to see it for me.
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Well, my prior understanding was that the viewer was above (kind of Like the Father's viewpoint of the Crucifixion in "The Passion of the Christ" movie). I knew the bottom of the cross was angled back, but I thought it in keeping with the curvature of the earth (Aarrgggh- don't want that argument right now!). I didn't realize that this perspective would be a face-down, horizontal Christ to those on the earth.
I'm glad I posted, I'm getting rid of it. I guess I sensed it for a while anyway, but I needed new eyes to see it for me.
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Sorry for not understanding your impression, but it never once occurred to me, even when I first saw this Dali painting over 40 years ago, that the cross was standing from a base buried in the ground. The sky and clouds depicted all behind the base clearly told me from the very first instant, that this cross was being presented as one floating in the sky and not whatsoever attached to the earth. And I've never met anyone else who had any other impression. For crying out loud, you can even see sunrays coming down from the clouds which means the sun must be high above them.
So you caught me entirely blind-sided. I had no idea that anyone could ever think this was a view looking downward to the earth, because there is no sky or clouds on the ground when viewed from above. This cross has always appeared to me as floating in the air horizontally (instead of upright) with gravity pulling the corpus (and hair) downward -- even though the trunk region is mysteriously attached to the cross, which is not something I have any inclination to hypothesize or speculate on. Perhaps a Sodomite would feel otherwise. I have no idea. Nor do I care.
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The lighting is a puzzle, too. From the shadowing on the cross one sees the sun (or whatever it is that shines light) is to the right, and must be BELOW the level of the cross, since the left shoulder casts a shadow upward to the crossbeam.
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HOWEVER, keeping in mind that direction to the light source (presuming it ought to be the sun but that might be too much presumption!), look at the clouds in the distance seen under or behind the base of the cross. If I wanted to depict clouds in the sky illumined by a sun that is located in the distance and direction indicated by the shadows on the cross, I would not show these clouds looking like that. These clouds give me the impression that the sun is high ABOVE these clouds and shining DOWN on them, much like the clearing clouds after a storm appear at mid-day. The clouds' highlights are above and the clouds' shadows are below, which are quite contrary to the shadows on the cross. So Dali wasn't making a mistake. He was trying to give the viewer a CONFLICT of perception, such that what is normal would be all turned around, and what we should expect to see is instead refuted, abrogated, denied. He wants to uproot you from your normal world and insert you into an entirely alien way of thinking. That would be an achievement for him, the artist, leading you to an entirely unexpected perception of something or better yet, EVERYTHING.
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It is a painting that depicts the refusal to accept the normal, established, traditional view of the world or, in this case, of the Crucifixion of Our Lord. It tells you to uproot all your preconceptions and set foot into a new reality that gives you an outlook you have never before imagined. Any Sodomite would be delighted! And that is supposed to be somehow desirable?
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Even after all that, there's still the missing nails (means it's not a crucifix because the nails are a necessity) and no INRI (ditto).
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But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema (Galatians 1:8 ).
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Dear Neil-
I never thought or said the Cross was planted in the ground- I knew this cross was suspended in the sky-just said I didn't get the visual impression that the cross was horizontal and facing down. I knew the base of the cross was not vertical. My impression was that it was tilted backwards (the base), and since I could see the top of Christ's head and the back of His shoulders I surmised that I was looking at it from the top down.
The actual picture show a layer of clouds "beneath" the cross and the bottom of the picture shows a body of water with fisherman and a boat. I guess that could be interpreted to be the Sea of Galilee.
I see what everyone means about the picture, and I agree. I obviously had my doubts or I wouldn't have ask for an opinion. It is NOT a traditional work of art, I get it. The "unique perspective" I
admired may very well be a "perverse perspective"- I would certainly reject that. And no, I am not a sodomite or even a sympathizer-lol.
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So it's clear what we're talking about -- the whole picture looks like this:
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2F78.media.tumblr.com%2Fb045ca70f5df0c06a1b75f05d11e0afb%2Ftumblr_nmapupdvti1u29mglo1_1280.jpg&sp=da33e70f1b9135088571d95c5f416fa2)
The sea of Galilee is far too large for hills to be seen on the other side of the sea.
The River Jordan is this wide in places.
This is a small lake.
Perhaps Pyramid lake or Lake Arrowhead, but not the sea of Galilee.
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Other crucifixion works by Dali:
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F91sT5Yo9-SL._SY450_.jpg&sp=5e81d07f38e7dfff798d319fec222a64) (https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F1HMygNYE1KQ%2Fhqdefault.jpg&sp=86e3a17f0b0e94e9c1c4ce72c1964e76) (https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsawiggins.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F05%2Fcruxi.jpg&sp=81e80364248b70bf5a19135e056d9a95)
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None of them are crucifixes. They all have essential elements missing, INRI, nails, or attachment to the cross, or all three.
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Yes, those are really awful