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Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

and no it's not sinful to cut down the NO.

I disagree, only because the Church disagrees with you SS. It is sinful to fault anything the Church has officially approved of in Her liturgy or laws. To avoid sin and still be able to condemn the Novus Ordo Missae, one must reject the validity of the alleged popes since Vatican II.

You need a lesson on Catholic beliefs sir. There are no Catch 22's in Catholicism despite what the Neo-Cath's and some Sede's tell you.

If your Father tells you to kill your neighbour you do not sin by disobeying him, because he has told you to do something contrary to the faith and therefore lost his previously rightful authority.

Likewise if a Priest tells you to do something sinful or heretical he loses his authority over the Father, and likewise to the Bishop over the Priest and the Pope over the Bishop.

This has always and everywhere been believed.

Let me just note, I want to discuss these things because of the very Catholic discussions I have read on other fora (HMiS discussing with Gladius, John Lane and the Robert Bellarmine forum, etc.) I do not believe it is a dogma to hold the we do not have a Pope. It is quite a difficult thing to say, actually.

I do, however, have a question: do the majority of sedes hold that the new priestly ordinations are invalid?

Most of your questions to the sede's would be better posed in the Crisis section since Sede's are allowed to speak their minds in that subforum and only in that subforum.

This is an SSPX forum that allows other Trads to join with us.

Most of us in the SSPX and the non-dogmatic sede's aswell would also agree with you that it is not dogmatic whether or not the Pope is a true Pope.
We await a declaration from a future Pope and/or Council to say so.

In the meantime, knowing that what they are preaching is contarary to the faith we disobey them as is neccessary for our salvation.

To answer your immediate question, even the SSPX doubts the new ordinations and when a NO Priest realizes the errors of the V2 Anti-Church and asks to join the SSPX he is conditionally ordianed(The condition of course being that he was not legitamately ordained already in the first place, since one can only be given Holy Orders once, same with Baptism, if someone doubts the validity of their baptism for some reason SSPX will conditionally baptise them)


Hope that Helps and Welcome to the forums.

To answer your immediate question, even the SSPX doubts the new ordinations and when a NO Priest realizes the errors of the V2 Anti-Church and asks to join the SSPX he is conditionally ordianed(The condition of course being that he was not legitamately ordained already in the first place, since one can only be given Holy Orders once, same with Baptism, if someone doubts the validity of their baptism for some reason SSPX will conditionally baptise them)

LP,
Do you know if the SSPX requires conditional ordination?
At one point, they did not, but I don't know what their practice is currently.