Author Topic: Things I wish to discuss (Read 5948 times)

Jim · « **on:** July 01, 2011, 11:51:03 PM »

I joined this board to be able to converse with fellow traditional Catholics on topics which are quite serious, and several ideas (for example, that the last five men claiming to be Popes are not in fact popes) My only fear in this is that I may be wrong, and in doing so, may lead others into false ideas. My thoughts on the state of Holy Mother Church, whom all of us love dearly, have changed. In less than 5 years, I went from lukewarm typical Catholic, to conservative Catholic, to reform of the reform, to FSSP Trad, and now I am of the extreme hardline SSPX leaning towards moderate sedevacantism camp. I also wish to use terms(neo trads, etc) and to actually discuss what I think, but I do not want to sin or scandalize others in doing so.

The other thing is I have not really spent much time with many different trads or just trads. My family isn't trad, most of the Masses I attend are said by a diocesan priest who resisted the NO after he was ordained, I've only been to the SSPX once, etc. I just have grave fears. What if my scruples with the new orders, sacraments, etc. are dumbfounded and I am wrong? Our priest was ordained by a valid pre-NO bishop, but in the new rite for priesthood? What if Frs. Cekada and Jenkins are right, and Michael Davies are wrong. This is quite important in re: confession and the sacraments we receive. I do not know any of the characters of traditionalism, the scandals, etc.

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2011, 01:10:06 AM »

Go to a CMRI mass and tell us how it went. It might squash all your doubts knowing its a TLM from an actual old rite ordained priest...not that this can't be found at other various independent chapels around the country.

And God bless you for following truth in the Faith with traditionalism.

Jim · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2011, 02:24:27 AM »

Where I live, there is no CMRI chapel. The closest sedevacantist priest is Fr. Thomas Zapp. There is also the priest who runs the Tradition website, but I do not know about going there. I am not exactly in a 100% independent condition to go to any Mass I please, as I will shock family and the friends/priest who I attend with. I feel that if I begin to tell my loved one and friends that the past five men claiming to be pope are not, that this scandal could actually harm their faith. Even if they are the Pope, what we can collectively call the "Novus Ordo" has been quite a scandal for the last 53 years. (Please note, I tend to be scrupulous. The past sentence is an example of things I want to say. Is it sinful at all when I make statements like this?) There is non-sede church around here that has a priest who was ordained by a bishop ordained in the old rite, but as I said in the sentence about my present situation, and also, like I said, what if the sedes are wrong about the new episcopal rite?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2011, 02:41:06 AM »

Lay out your real options for where to attend Mass. Some people have three or four options in their area; others may have no trouble moving to a desired Mass location. Be realistic in that unless you've moved, you probably aren't going to have the best option in your area be right in your neighborhood. If you have certainly valid sacraments anywhere near you, then go there. If it's a bit too far to go weekly, then go once or twice monthly.

Unless you have a very rare exception, going to any non-diocesan Mass is going to be better than where you are in almost every respect (sermons, spiritual advice, fellow parishioners, etc) no matter if it's SSPX, CMRI, independant, or whatever.

If you find that your EF Mass really is your only option and you don't have reason to believe that what is preached there is actually damaging to your Faith, then go and be at peace that you're doing the best you can with what you have. God isn't going to punish you for that. Pray, as we always should, that you're doing His will in the matter and have Faith that you will be steered elsewhere if He sees fit to do so.

As far as discussion on Internet forums, I'd advise that you always be open to the possibility that your own opinions regarding the Crisis are wrong. The first rule on this board:
In necessary things, unity.
In doubtful things, liberty.
In all things, charity.
Keep more focus on that which is necessary to save your soul--elimination of vice, increase in virtue, development of spiritual life--these things are the same wether or not BXVI is the Pope.

If you've convinced a dozen people that the papacy is(n't) void but have neglected to assist your spouse, children, parents, etc in their journey toward Heaven, what have you really accomplished?

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2011, 06:51:44 AM »

I would not worry about scrupulosity over whether on not you sin over saying things such as 'the last X amount of popes were not popes at all', 'Novus ordo is a protestant worship service and not from a valid council', etc. .. because all these claims are not claims anymore after 50 years of evidence, research, and plain ol' observation. They are fact. The info is all over this forum, the internet, peoples' heads at CMRI, SSPV, and some SSPX churches. In these times of "spiritual chaos and meltdown" we must hold true to Tradition and Scripture, both of which the TLM and their followers proclaim in the highest percentage.

Once you go to a TLM for a few weeks, you won't be able to go back to any NO; thats for sure. Just try it out and God will tell you why in your heart. Its eerie how He does it, but He does , and it brings about peace because you are no longer in a cognitive dissonance about the faith.

And I second what MaterDominici has to say about strengthening in virtue and a prayer life. Once you are on the traditional track, those matters are of high importance (not that knowing who the pope is is not an important matter... anyways thats a whole discussion right there lol)