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Author Topic: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism  (Read 8631 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2023, 10:40:00 AM »
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  • Are their views pretty much the same, do you know?

    Pontrello has gone off the deep end and has basically become Orthodox.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #61 on: September 30, 2023, 10:46:03 AM »
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  • Pontrello has gone off the deep end and has basically become Orthodox.

    Okay, good to know. I wonder if he was himself a sede at one time. Sometimes they go over to the EO in order to get away from whole pope issue. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #62 on: September 30, 2023, 11:11:10 AM »
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  • Okay, good to know. I wonder if he was himself a sede at one time. Sometimes they go over to the EO in order to get away from whole pope issue.

    Pontrello's been all over the map and, yes, a sedevacantist at one point, and everywhere in between and then some.  But each time he ends up at any position, he writes books and publishes content promoting his latest one.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #63 on: September 30, 2023, 12:11:32 PM »
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  • Okay, good to know. I wonder if he was himself a sede at one time. Sometimes they go over to the EO in order to get away from whole pope issue.

    Just to be clear: one can't escape the Pope and stay a good Catholic on the path to salvation by becoming a Schismatic (Orthodox).

    So you might as well "escape" to Protestantism or Islam. You avoid the Pope question -- and eternal salvation -- there as well.

    Eastern Rite Catholics are still under the Pope, just as much as Roman Rite or any other Rite in the Catholic Church.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #64 on: September 30, 2023, 01:52:19 PM »
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  • Just to be clear: one can't escape the Pope and stay a good Catholic on the path to salvation by becoming a Schismatic (Orthodox).

    So you might as well "escape" to Protestantism or Islam. You avoid the Pope question -- and eternal salvation -- there as well.

    Eastern Rite Catholics are still under the Pope, just as much as Roman Rite or any other Rite in the Catholic Church.

    A good clarification above, and I agree. One cannot really avoid the Pope question just because one goes over to the EO. They will still have to held accountable when they face judgment. I was just pointing out that it has occasionally happened that a sedevacantist, tiring of dealing with the issue of a heretical pope, goes over to the EO. It shows that one can burnout when focusing too much on the pope question.

    Ultimately, the bottom line is that as Bp. Williamson and others have pointed out...."when the shepherd is struck, the sheep are scattered." And yet God has allowed the Crisis by His Permissive Will. And that is why, IMO, it's not prudent to take an extreme position.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline AveReginaMatris

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #65 on: November 03, 2023, 11:49:40 PM »
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  • Your objections are nothing but ''ex cathedra'' onlyism. 

    Please, anti sedevacantism has long been refuted.

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #66 on: November 04, 2023, 11:08:01 AM »
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  • Pontrello was in the CMRI seminary at one time. I have read his book on sedevacantistism and he raises some some very good points that have not been adequately answered by the traditional clergy.
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #67 on: November 04, 2023, 01:57:53 PM »
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  • Pontrello was in the CMRI seminary at one time. I have read his book on sedevacantistism and he raises some some very good points that have not been adequately answered by the traditional clergy.

    He raises no good points, and his stuff is utter garbage.  Everything he's ever blathered about has been repeatedly addressed and refuted by the "Traditional clergy" myriad times.  So are you promoting heretical/schismatic Eastern Orthodoxy along with Pontrello?


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #68 on: November 04, 2023, 03:19:07 PM »
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  • He raises no good points, and his stuff is utter garbage.  Everything he's ever blathered about has been repeatedly addressed and refuted by the "Traditional clergy" myriad times.  So are you promoting heretical/schismatic Eastern Orthodoxy along with Pontrello?
    Calm down, turbo. No one is promoting anything. 

    Can always count on overreacting here.::)
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #69 on: November 04, 2023, 03:33:40 PM »
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  • Calm down, turbo. No one is promoting anything.

    Can always count on overreacting here.::)

    There's no overreacting to your having promoted a schismatic/heretic as having raised questions that have not been answered by Traditional Catholics.  You would be accounted as suspect of heresy for doing that.  This is no light matter or some casual post.  If you don't think heresy is a big deal and objecting to it is overreacting, then you're more suspect than before this post.  Pontrello has raised no good points ... it's all trash.  Sure, maybe the Church was overreacting in putting heretics to death too.  Heresy is no triviality, and it's worse than bodily murder.

    Pontrello is just another run-of-the-mill schismatic and heretic.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #70 on: November 04, 2023, 08:03:40 PM »
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  • There's no overreacting to your having promoted a schismatic/heretic as having raised questions that have not been answered by Traditional Catholics.  You would be accounted as suspect of heresy for doing that.  This is no light matter or some casual post.  If you don't think heresy is a big deal and objecting to it is overreacting, then you're more suspect than before this post.  Pontrello has raised no good points ... it's all trash.  Sure, maybe the Church was overreacting in putting heretics to death too.  Heresy is no triviality, and it's worse than bodily murder.

    Pontrello is just another run-of-the-mill schismatic and heretic.


    Just reading the title "why... supports eastern orthodoxy" yikes.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #71 on: November 04, 2023, 09:27:09 PM »
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  • Just reading the title "why... supports eastern orthodoxy" yikes.

    He's been pushing and promoting Eastern Orthodoxy for years now.

    This is the guy that LeDeg claims has been making great points that Trad Catholics haven't addressed (on his blog post from earlier this year):


    Uh, yeah.  I'd love to see the Dimonds release a full video ripping this guy to shreds.

    He basically opened his foray into Orthodoxy by claiming that Pius IX supported heresy due to his one grossly-misinterpreted mention of "invincible ignorance" (totally buffooning what Pius IX actually wrote) and then denying papal infallibility.  That's his  "unanswered" challenge to Catholicism.

    This guy is a joke, and a bad-willed heretic.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #72 on: November 04, 2023, 09:34:09 PM »
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  • Here's another good one:


    Of course he's trying to appropriate DR's point as a defense of Orthodoxy, but his dismissal of the distinction between potency and act (which he obviously knows nothing about) for him reduces to "imaginary".  This discredits him immediately.

    Analogy is that same as between the body and soul.  Souls in Heaven still have it of their essence to have a body, even though they currently lack one.  This then translates into their having "imaginary" bodies?  What an idiot ... but then heresy does that to people.  They have bodies in potency, thought not currently in act.  This does not mean they have "imaginary" bodies.

    :facepalm:

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #73 on: November 04, 2023, 10:35:27 PM »
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  • One could also argue that the hierarchy still remains in Traditional circles, with Trad Bishops. 

    How does this guy explain the Arian heresy, then?  You had St Athanasius and everyone else was a heretic.  Yet the Church survived.  The only answer is those few priests/bishops who kept the Faith were the hierarchy.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The Impossibility of Sedevacantism
    « Reply #74 on: November 04, 2023, 11:00:49 PM »
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  • He's been pushing and promoting Eastern Orthodoxy for years now.

    This is the guy that LeDeg claims has been making great points that Trad Catholics haven't addressed (on his blog post from earlier this year):


    Uh, yeah.  I'd love to see the Dimonds release a full video ripping this guy to shreds.

    He basically opened his foray into Orthodoxy by claiming that Pius IX supported heresy due to his one grossly-misinterpreted mention of "invincible ignorance" (totally buffooning what Pius IX actually wrote) and then denying papal infallibility.  That's his  "unanswered" challenge to Catholicism.

    This guy is a joke, and a bad-willed heretic.
    That quote is typical projection by the unorthodox, who were caught forging/altering docuмents in the past. Clearly calumny against the Catholic Church.