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Author Topic: The Heretical Pope Fallacy  (Read 73839 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 03:28:19 PM »
I'll get back to the rule of faith when I have more time.  Indeed, Magisterium could be used in a number of different senses.
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Offline drew

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 08:34:16 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 02, 2018, 01:11:14 PM
I have to disagree.  Dogma is not the proximate rule of faith.  Neither is the pope himself personally.  Proximate rule of faith is the Magisterium.

Dogma is in fact the OBJECT of our faith.  We have the remote rule of faith in Scripture/Tradition, and the proximate role of faith in the Magisterium.

Truth of the matter is actually in between the two sides debating in the OP.

The Magisterium is the teaching office that engages the Church’s attribute of infallibilty.  Dogma is the result of the exercise of that office.  Dogma is the proximate rule of faith delivered by the Magisterium.  The Magisterium is the means, Dogma is the end and it is the end that constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic Faith.  It is this "formal object" that is our proximate rule of faith.

Drew
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Offline drew

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 08:36:06 PM »
x
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 08:51:23 AM »
Quote
The Magisterium is the teaching office that engages the Church’s attribute of infallibilty.  Dogma is the result of the exercise of that office.  Dogma is the proximate rule of faith delivered by the Magisterium.  The Magisterium is the means, Dogma is the end and it is the end that constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic Faith.  It is this "formal object" that is our proximate rule of faith.
I agree with all of this.  Why did Christ send the Apostles to the end of the earth?  To preach the Truth/doctrine.  Why did Christ create the Church?  To preach the Truth/doctrine and protect it from error.  What is the job of the hierarchy (i.e. the ordinary magisterium) in the Church?  To preach the Truth and protect it from error and clarify it when necessary.  What is the sum total of the CONSISTENT Truths of the Church over the period of 2,000 years?  This is called the 'ordinary and UNIVERSAL' magisterium.  Everything relates back to Truth/doctrine, of which Christ is the author.  This is why Catholicism does not change.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 09:17:59 AM »
Quote from: drew on January 02, 2018, 08:34:16 PM
The Magisterium is the teaching office that engages the Church’s attribute of infallibilty.  Dogma is the result of the exercise of that office.  Dogma is the proximate rule of faith delivered by the Magisterium.  The Magisterium is the means, Dogma is the end and it is the end that constitutes the formal object of divine and Catholic Faith.  It is this "formal object" that is our proximate rule of faith.

Drew

Right, dogma is the object of that faith, but not the rule.

Object of faith:  dogma
Ultimate/Remote RULE of faith:  truthfulness of God
Proximate/Inanimate RULE of faith:  divine revelation (Scripture/Tradition)
Proximate/Living RULE of faith:  Magisterium/the Church

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05766b.htm
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