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Author Topic: The flappers are back  (Read 3536 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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The flappers are back
« on: March 24, 2024, 03:45:54 PM »
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  • Flapping away center stage at OLOS.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #1 on: March 24, 2024, 03:54:05 PM »
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  • Do you have a picture?  What happened?
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #2 on: March 24, 2024, 09:43:04 PM »
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  • Just the same old "center stage" flapping.  Before V2 I never saw any chant or choir in view of the "audience." It is unseemly and I hate it.… about as much as I hate 5 bells at the consecrations— something else I never saw before V2.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2024, 06:11:23 AM »
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  • I forgot what our ultimate consensus was on the other thread, but if I recall, the only reason the flappers are up front is because they're (illegitimately) taking the place of an actual liturgical/clerical choir, which used to be up front, in the sanctuary.  Even at seminary, I must admit that I didn't care for this at all, although there the flapping was generally hidden from the faithful as we were in a circle formation and the flapper kept his hands low, below the heads of the seminarians.  IMO, you do not need a flapper in order to be able to keep time.  I played violin in orchestra and sang in the top choir at STAS, and I don't think I ever even looked at the flapper.  I was looking at the musical notation.  Flappers serve no purpose other than to create a spectacle ... which during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass reduce to a huge distraction.

    They probably brought the flappers back for Holy Week.  Are these the post-1955 Holy Week Rites that require more "participation of the faithful"?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2024, 06:19:03 AM »
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  • ... about as much as I hate 5 bells at the consecrations— something else I never saw before V2.

    I don't care for that either.  It's meant to specifically highlight the elevation (in case you weren't paying attention, I guess, and missed the first bell, or have trouble counting).  But everything else in the Mass is in 3s, in honor of the Holy Trinity.   I guess maybe they look at this as 3 within a 3.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2024, 06:30:51 AM »
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  • Flapping is homo gαy.

    There ... I said it.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #6 on: March 25, 2024, 06:38:19 AM »
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  • Flapping is homo gαy.

    There ... I said it.

    Well, when the chief flappers (while we were at STAS) consisted of Fr. Urrutigoity, Eric Ensey, etc. and their "followers", I'd have to say that you're not wrong.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #7 on: March 25, 2024, 06:48:09 AM »
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  • I don't care for that either.  It's meant to specifically highlight the elevation (in case you weren't paying attention, I guess, and missed the first bell, or have trouble counting).  But everything else in the Mass is in 3s, in honor of the Holy Trinity.  I guess maybe they look at this as 3 within a 3.
    Has anyone here seen "3 within a 3" before V2? If there is any legitimate claim to being "traditional," I'd like to hear it.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #8 on: March 25, 2024, 06:53:05 AM »
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  • Well, when the chief flappers (while we were at STAS) consisted of Fr. Urrutigoity, Eric Ensey, etc. and their "followers", I'd have to say that you're not wrong.
    Ugh, and to think that I was once a postulant of the SSJ oblivious to all the sodomites around me. The flapping should have been the giveaway.

    Hindsight...
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #9 on: March 25, 2024, 07:41:03 AM »
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  • The flapping should have been the giveaway.

    Well, that and the fact that they all insisted upon wearing ankle-length fancy lace surplices that could have been mistaken for women's lingerie had there not been a black cassock underneath.

    Admittedly, I wasn't onto them either, since most of them did not exhibit the stereotypical mannerisms generally associated with fαɢɢօtry. 

    I was also rather naive at the age of 21, as there was a guy from IHM to whom I actually gave a ride up to STAS who was an obvious flamer (textbook), and yet I filtered it out, in my naive mentality, since he appeared externally to be pious and devout otherwise.  Perhaps you know of whom I speak.  We made the mistake of getting to STAS a weak early.  I still recall walking into the chapel, not knowing where to go, and seeing only now-Father Soos praying in the choir stalls, who came over, realizing we were "lost" and took us to where we needed to go.  Well, I had hoped by arriving early to be able to take a few days of personal/mini- retreat to prepare for the seminary, but we were put to work immediately, since they were just moving to Winona from Ridgefield.  It was hard work, carrying furniture (tables, pews, boxes of books, etc.) in 95-degree (and humid) weather.  I recall that this guy seemed to no-show and disappear from the work details, and I found him in his room, with his feet kicked up on his desk, sitting in front of an electric fan he had purchased, and declaring (flailing with limp wrists and speaking in an obvious pronounced lisp) "These hands were made for chalices, not callouses."  Thankfully, he was gone after a week, since he couldn't deal with Bishop Williamson's "Anti-Semitism".  During the drive to Winona (from Cleveland), a large bug flew in the window at one point, and the girlish soprano-pitched shrieking emanating from the back would have put the movie "scream queens" to shame.  Despite all this, I remained oblivious, having been a rather naive fellow at that young age.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #10 on: March 25, 2024, 08:34:51 AM »
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  • What's a flapper?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #11 on: March 25, 2024, 08:37:24 AM »
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  • What's a flapper?

    This is a reference to the "choir" being put up front at Mass with a "conductor" of sorts gesticulating flamboyantly in an alleged need to direct the singing.

    Guy with his hand up in this picture is the "flapper".


    It's a huge distraction.  You'll notice how they're blocking view of the altar, and just imagine the guy flailing away with very animated gestures, and SSPX are not limiting this to clerics either.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #12 on: March 25, 2024, 08:45:55 AM »
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  • Perhaps you know of whom I speak. 

    (flailing with limp wrists and speaking in an obvious pronounced lisp) "These hands were made for chalices, not callouses." 
    I do know of whom you speak.

    There was another guy at STAS from Saint P at that time. He lasted about 24 hours and left because of "Bishop Williamson". This guy went to to be "ordained" for the 216 diocese, and later left active ministry for his boyfriend. Again, I was oblivious at the time.

    We are all naïve in our late teens and early twenties.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #13 on: March 25, 2024, 09:18:36 AM »
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  • This is a reference to the "choir" being put up front at Mass with a "conductor" of sorts gesticulating flamboyantly in an alleged need to direct the singing.

    Guy with his hand up in this picture is the "flapper".


    It's a huge distraction.  You'll notice how they're blocking view of the altar, and just imagine the guy flailing away with very animated gestures, and SSPX are not limiting this to clerics either.
    Urg. The choir is for sound not to be seen..... This is common sense. Also a conductor is not needed. I agree this is a HUGE distraction.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: The flappers are back
    « Reply #14 on: March 25, 2024, 09:29:05 AM »
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  • Also a conductor is not needed. I agree this is a HUGE distraction.
    Neither are MCs needed for a Missa Cantata. At those Masses an MC is likewise a distraction. Save them for Solemn and Pontifical High Masses.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila