Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Attack on Ultramontanism  (Read 3971 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2021, 09:37:28 AM »
And they want everyone else to be the same way, but some of us still want to be honest, and will not go down the road of treachery which is Sedeism.
:laugh2:
Your grasp of what SVs actually think -- versus what the anti-SV propaganda says and which people like you, Matto, et alii just mindlessly parrot -- is as tenuous as your grasp of reality.

Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2021, 09:40:14 AM »
The Ordinary magisterial teachings are the usual day to day teachings of the Church, taught to her members through parents, priests, nuns, teachers, catechisms, hierarchy etc,. The Church's  Universal Magisterium is merely, as PPIX puts it, "all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith". Councils are relatively rare yet their place as regards the UM cannot be over stated.

Deo Gratias they've all done their job, how else could we know V2 is wrong? Yet 1000 - 2000 years ago souls were saved without the Council of Trent, V1 and many other Councils, how did they do it? How do we do it? - resort back to my previous post here.  

In may not work in your idea of Catholic ecclesiology, but in reality that's the way it is.

You will firmly abide by the true decision of the Holy Roman Church and to this Holy See, which does not permit errors.
(Bull cuм Postquam; Denz. 740b)

Moreover if what you said were true then there would be no debates in Traditionalist circles on issues such as “Feeneyism,” NFP, Mary’s role in salvation, and the plethora of moral issues we are faced with today.

A church that teaches major doctrinal error, heresy, pernicious moral guidance, and blasphemies/sacrilege in discipline and liturgy is not the church of Christ, but a false and phony church; faker than your local Pentecostal congregation.

Catholic ecclesiology, by necessity, requires a living magisterium and an orthodox one that does not substantially change. Otherwise defection has occurred.


Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2021, 10:00:34 AM »
I get it, the Church's enemies tended to be anti ultramontanists, while the Popes of Vatican I and post Vatican I were fervent ultramontanists.  

But there's no way any of them wanted that to mean "if you get a irreconcilable contradiction just say these guys aren't popes."

That which shouldn't be possible has in fact happened and we're all trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Online Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2021, 10:07:46 AM »
You will firmly abide by the true decision of the Holy Roman Church and to this Holy See, which does not permit errors.
(Bull cuм Postquam; Denz. 740b)

Moreover if what you said were true then there would be no debates in Traditionalist circles on issues such as “Feeneyism,” NFP, Mary’s role in salvation, and the plethora of moral issues we are faced with today.

A church that teaches major doctrinal error, heresy, pernicious moral guidance, and blasphemies/sacrilege in discipline and liturgy is not the church of Christ, but a false and phony church; faker than your local Pentecostal congregation.

Catholic ecclesiology, by necessity, requires a living magisterium and an orthodox one that does not substantially change. Otherwise defection has occurred.
The Magisterium is living and can only but live, Our Lord said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass."

The conciliar church is not the Catholic Church.

Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2021, 10:08:14 AM »
I get it, the Church's enemies tended to be anti ultramontanists, while the Popes of Vatican I and post Vatican I were fervent ultramontanists.  

But there's no way any of them wanted that to mean "if you get a irreconcilable contradiction just say these guys aren't popes."

That which shouldn't be possible has in fact happened and we're all trying to figure out how to deal with it.
It has far more to do with a Pope merely contradicting himself and everything to do with the indefectibility of the Church preventing grave error and heresy being taught to the faithful.