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Author Topic: The Attack on Ultramontanism  (Read 3779 times)

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Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 04:49:12 PM »
If Christians could determine for themselves what Tradition is, its sources of extraction, how it is to be interpreted, when it is applied, how it ought to be formulated, and when it should be followed then what use is the Papacy? Eastern Orthodoxy would make more sense under this system.


The attempts to legitimize the Bergoglian reign of destruction and the preceding conciliar reigns of havoc have left many people with a thoroughly damaged understanding of ecclesiology such that these people are almost indistinguishable from Gallicans, Old Catholics, or Eastern Orthodox.


Online Ladislaus

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Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 04:55:20 PM »
Yeah, this is all nonsense, made up to justify the R&R position.  In actual Traditional Catholic theology, the Magisterium determines what is consistent with Tradition and what is not.  This doesn't mean every single word that emanates from the merely-authentic Magisterium is infallible, but the Magisterium must be regarded as generally safe.  If there are some minor mistakes that creep into the Magisterium, they must be respectfully challenged ... from within the Church.

This is not a question of infallibility but, rather, of indefectibility.  If all we had was a problematic statement here or there in V2, that would be one thing.  But we now have a completely corrupt Magisterium over 60 years which is leading souls to hell, and a public worship that is displeasing to God and harmful to souls.

Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2021, 05:07:54 PM »
Peter K needs to look at the basics on ultramontanism and realize that it was opposed by the likes of enemies of the Church in the 19th century.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia on "ultramontanism":

Quote
For Catholics it would be superfluous to ask whether Ultramontanism and Catholicism are the same thing: assuredly, those who combat Ultramontanis are in fact combating Catholicism, even when they disclaim the desire to oppose it.

The latest Tradcast Express addresses these claims:
Listen to TRADCAST EXPRESS 137 by Novus Ordo Watch
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/Ycaao

Re: The Attack on Ultramontanism
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 05:43:39 PM »
Sedes seem to argue that we should not think and merely mindlessly follow whatever comes from the Pope. Of course they do not do that. They judge what comes just as R&R do. With the R&R saying the pope is mistaken and the sedes the pope is not the Pope. But the judgment is the same. Neither look to the papacy the way that the sedes demand the R&R do. For in that case, when the Popes started declaring that black was white and white was black in the sixties, the sedes would have conformed their judgment to Rome no matter what, as Saint Ignatius said the Jesuits should, and believe white is black and black is white, rather than thinking for themselves. For even if the pope was false, the lack of trust according to the sede model condemns them. What is the meaning of gaslighting? I want to use that word here but am not sure if it is proper.

Just a question. How can one trust the Pope absolutely as the sedes demand? If at any time the Pope could teach heresy and fall from his state unknown to all? So you can never know if the pope is real and his teaching is true, or if he is false and is teaching lies? The sedes even reject the Papacy of John XXIII who was accepted by the whole world and all Catholics and there weren't even traditional Catholics for six or seven years after he died, let alone sedevacantists. It would make sense to follow blindly if we knew that what happened today is impossible because God would not allow it. But it happened so that model is dead. I mean if a true Pope were elected tomorrow and was accepted by the sedes and he declared BOD was a heresy, they would reject the Pope again and declare a sede vacante again.