Author Topic: SedePRIVATIONISM revealed in Holy Scripture? (Read 5713 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2015, 11:19:13 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

As I hope you know, I have a lot of respect for both your and Matthew's views, and I readily admit that I am way, way less educated in these matters. Yet I think the Lex Orandi is dictating the very real and serious differences between SVs and non SV trads. I will however gladly accept correction where correction is due.

"Correction" is an overstatement. I simply have a difference of opinion. Correction is a matter for authority. Well, I think that whole point of your quote from Archbishop Lefebvre is to state that the use of the name in the Canon does NOT per se have dogmatic implications. If, for instance, someone omitted it due to a schismatic attitude (e.g. some in the Eastern Rites), then that would indeed be a grave sin. But if you omitted the name because you thought (even mistakenly) that the Pope was dead or even thought that Francis isn't pope and that the See is vacant, that isn't per se any kind of formal dogmatic declaration. Dimonds did a great deal of research on the subject, and they concluded, despite being dogmatic SVs, that inserting the name didn't per se constituted any kind of schismatic / heretical act with dogmatic import.

If I were a priest, I would say "una cuм famulo tuo papa nostro" (but then omit the name) due to doubt. I would formally profess submission to the Pope but then at the same time declare the uncertainty regarding his actual identity. I would consider it an act of hypocrisy to declare my submission to "Francis" when I in fact refuse to submit to Francis and to his "Magisterium".

TKGS · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2015, 04:41:23 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Stubborn
As I hope you know, I have a lot of respect for both your and Matthew's views, and I readily admit that I am way, way less educated in these matters. Yet I think the Lex Orandi is dictating the very real and serious differences between SVs and non SV trads. I will however gladly accept correction where correction is due.

"Correction" is an overstatement. I simply have a difference of opinion. Correction is a matter for authority. Well, I think that whole point of your quote from Archbishop Lefebvre is to state that the use of the name in the Canon does NOT per se have dogmatic implications. If, for instance, someone omitted it due to a schismatic attitude (e.g. some in the Eastern Rites), then that would indeed be a grave sin. But if you omitted the name because you thought (even mistakenly) that the Pope was dead or even thought that Francis isn't pope and that the See is vacant, that isn't per se any kind of formal dogmatic declaration. Dimonds did a great deal of research on the subject, and they concluded, despite being dogmatic SVs, that inserting the name didn't per se constituted any kind of schismatic / heretical act with dogmatic import.

If I were a priest, I would say "una cuм famulo tuo papa nostro" (but then omit the name) due to doubt. I would formally profess submission to the Pope but then at the same time declare the uncertainty regarding his actual identity. I would consider it an act of hypocrisy to declare my submission to "Francis" when I in fact refuse to submit to Francis and to his "Magisterium".

Without a doubt, these are the most cogent comments I've read on CathInfo for some time.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2015, 12:16:15 PM »

Thanks to Ladislaus, Matthew, Clare, Stubborn and TKGS for their excellent contributions to this thread.

Alas, leave it to 2Vermont and Jaynek to hijack this thread, thereby derailing the subject matter to a stupid topic, which should have been started on a new thread, about what CathInfo member is really whom. Typical diversion from something edifying.

Matthew · « **Reply #23 on:** August 12, 2015, 01:14:43 PM »

Quote from: ascent

Thanks to Ladislaus, Matthew, Clare, Stubborn and TKGS for their excellent contributions to this thread.

Alas, leave it to 2Vermont and Jaynek to hijack this thread, thereby derailing the subject matter to a stupid topic, which should have been started on a new thread, about what CathInfo member is really whom. Typical diversion from something edifying.

Hear, hear!
:applause:

I fully agree. We had a good discussion going, and then Stubborn thought it necessary to "call out" someone as being another poster. I agree -- if you're going to do that, make it a new thread.

Note that Stubborn never thought it necessary or appropriate to report this "double account" to me via PM or e-mail. So he was just derailing the thread.

Anyhow, I did some serious trimming to get this thread back on track.

ENOUGH about Mithrandylan and speculation about other accounts he might have. There is no reason to suspect he has a single one.

Please leave moderating to the moderator, and if you really have some information which would be helpful, PM it to me.

2Vermont · « **Reply #24 on:** August 12, 2015, 08:31:25 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: ascent
Thanks to Ladislaus, Matthew, Clare, Stubborn and TKGS for their excellent contributions to this thread.

Alas, leave it to 2Vermont and Jaynek to hijack this thread, thereby derailing the subject matter to a stupid topic, which should have been started on a new thread, about what CathInfo member is really whom. Typical diversion from something edifying.

Hear, hear!
:applause:

I fully agree. We had a good discussion going, and then Stubborn thought it necessary to "call out" someone as being another poster. I agree -- if you're going to do that, make it a new thread.

Note that Stubborn never thought it necessary or appropriate to report this "double account" to me via PM or e-mail. So he was just derailing the thread.

Anyhow, I did some serious trimming to get this thread back on track.

ENOUGH about Mithrandylan and speculation about other accounts he might have. There is no reason to suspect he has a single one.

Please leave moderating to the moderator, and if you really have some information which would be helpful, PM it to me.

Thank you.