Again, SVs, whether deemed to be moderate or not, all do something they are not permitted to do - omit the name of the pope from the Canon. Because it has to do with a giant thing in the Mass, i.e. the Canon, this is a giant thing in the Law Of Praying, i.e. the Lex Orandi.
I mean, what about Pope Benedict XIV in his encyclical Ex Quo wherein he repeats numerous times that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it is a sin to omit the name of the pope from the canon of the Mass. That's it and that's all of it - period. "Roma locuta; causa finita est".
Mind you he is specifically speaking to the Eastern Church - yet the one thing the Eastern Church has in common with SVs of today, is that they both insist that the pope is not the pope, yet Pope Benedict XIV pretty much repeated the same thing over and over stating: whoever omits the name of the pope from the Mass *for any reason* separates himself from the entire world.
Here you're simply begging the question, Stubborn. You're assuming that Francis is the pope and therefore that they're omitting the name of the Pope from the Canon. But that's precisely what they're disputing, whether Francis is actually the pope. So this argument by itself can't stand.
I *know* this is not how you meant it, but your reply came across trivializing the seriousness of the act of omitting the name of the pope from the Canon.
Since my assumption plays no part in whether we are permitted to omit anything from the Mass, forget for the moment that I'm assuming that Francis is pope.
If, for *whatever reason* we are permitted to omit anything at all, then what is there to stop anyone from changing or omitting whatever they want? The answer is; nothing at all. V2 opined the whole Mass away for this same reason - because there was nothing to stop them.
For example, the rubrics for priest for the beginning of the Mass say:
When the priest has descended to the lowest level of the Altar, he turns towards the Altar, and standing in the middle, with his hands joined before his breast with fingers extended and together, and with his right thumb over his left in the form of a cross (which form is always to be observed when joining the hands until after the Consecration), and with his head uncovered, having first reverenced the Crucifix or Altar, or if a Tabernacle containing the Blessed Sacrament is on the Altar, having genuflected, standing erect, he begins the Mass.
Reading through the rest of the rubrics, there are numerous specifics, similar to the above that dictates to the priest how far to rotate, precisely where to look and exactly when and how far to bow, the loudness of the tone of voice to use in certain places and on and on - these perceived to be trivial things are important enough to dictate to the priest down to the most minute detail.
It is no accident that before V2, one would see the *exact* same Mass no matter where in the world it was being celebrated.
What I am getting at, is that if the rubrics are so precise so as to dictate even the position of the priest's thumbs when his hands are together, then is it not a very serious offense to omit the name of the pope from the Canon *for whatever reason*, even inspite of the priest's opinion that the man is not pope? Since when does his or anyone's opinion matter when it comes to the Mass? Since when does his opinion give him the right to directly disobey Quo Primum and change or omit anything, even if he is correct in his opinion that the pope is not the pope? We cannot omit anything no matter what.
All other of the churches referred to above, however, are hereby denied the use of other missals, which are to be discontinued entirely and absolutely; whereas, by this present Constitution, which will be valid henceforth, now, and forever, We order and enjoin that nothing must be added to Our recently published Missal, nothing omitted from it, nor anything whatsoever be changed within it under the penalty of Our displeasure.
Per Quo Primum, it is an unlawful or illegal act to omit the name of the pope - period. Per Ex Quo, it is an act of schism - period. There are no allowances for the opinions of anyone in these laws - this is by design and on purpose and most importantly, for good reason, no matter how strong our opinion is.
This act of omission is extremely serious, it is not a trivial act because it was and still is, the cause for SVs to split from other trads, open their own chapels, schools, seminaries and etc., it's caused them to consecrate their own bishops and ordain their own priests, some even refuse Communion to non-SVs.
Which takes me back to why I brought up Nado, whom I used to exemplify the faith of some, though clearly not all, SVs. He has a different faith, one that is not Catholic. You accused him of this before he was banned and I agree - he certainly was preaching a different faith while he was here.
I believe this is due to his 'outlawed' Lex Orandi - which is not limited to his support of the act of omission, but surely must grow from it. That is why I say this act of omission must be a very serious offense, which is why there are laws against it, because the popes who made the laws must have known that to change or omit anything, fuels a different belief aka lex credendi.
I apologize to the forum, Matthew and Mith for saying Mith was Nado, I was wrong and wrong to say it the way I did. Not sure if it's the stupidest thing I've done recently, but it's up there.