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Author Topic: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism  (Read 4918 times)

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Offline Nishant Xavier

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Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2021, 11:27:07 AM »
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  • Universal Acceptance is not my only argument, my personal argument is more from St. Peter's Perpetual Successors.

    I hold that the Church will lose Formal Apostolicity and Ordinary Jurisdiction if She is without Papal Successors forever.

    Robert Siscoe was apparently a Benevacantist/Beneplenist, however we want to call it, and changed because of UA.

    "The doctrine of the peaceful and universal acceptance, when properly understood, proves beyond any possible doubt that Francis’s election was valid and refutes each and every objection that has been raised against it. Those who understand this “sound doctrine” (2 Tim. 4:3), and accept it, will know who the true pope is, while those who “turn their hearing away from the truth” by rejecting it will continue to be “tossed to and fro and carried about” by the latest conspiracy theory or fallacious argument.

    Before continuing, I should note that there was a time when I also had doubts, or at least questions, about the legitimacy of the Francis pontificate and was one of the first to raise the questions about Benedict’s abdication that are being widely discussed today.[1] But after studying the matter further, there is no doubt whatsoever that Benedict’s abdication was ratified by Christ, Who stripped him of the papal office and conferred it upon Francis on the day of his election."

    From: https://onepeterfive.com/dogmatic-fact-francis-pope/

    Offline GregoryPiusLeoSarto

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #46 on: February 18, 2021, 12:05:40 PM »
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  • What Does the Magisterium Teach?
    Humility is the path both to being a Catholic & to saving our soul.
     
    1.)   Heretics pick & choose which Magisterial teachings they accept & which they reject.
    2.)   Heretics judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they think they know better than the Magisterium.
    3.)   Heretics make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
     
    1.)   Catholics do NOT pick & choose which Magisterial teachings to accept & which to reject, they MUST simply accept them all.
    2.)   Catholics do NOT judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they do NOT think they know better than the Magisterium.
    3.)   Catholics do NOT make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
     
    Can you rebut the following by using infallible quotes from the Magisterium?  If not, then shouldn't we believe exactly what Vatican I, Humani Generis and Mortalium Animos teach?   
     
    1.)   You, nor I, nor the SSPX, nor the Resistance, nor Archbishop Lefebvre are infallible. 
    2.)   The Catholic Church is infallible. 
    3.)   The “…See of St. Peter ALWAYS remains unblemished by any error.” (Vatican I) It was given a “gift of truth and NEVER failing faith.” 
    4.)   The Solemn Magisterium is infallible. (Vatican I)
    5.)   The Ordinary Magisterium is infallible. (Humani Generis)
    6.)   Encyclicals and Ecuмenical Councils are infallible.
    7.)   “…the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine.” (Mystici Corporis Christi) 
    8.)   Vatican II is heretical and countless subsequent Encyclicals of the V2 popes are heretical, (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html), therefore it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes, because Vatican I infallibly teaches: 
     
    The First Vatican Council 
    Dogmatic Constitution of Vatican I,Pastor Aeternus   
    Pope Pius IX, July 18, 1870 A.D.   
     
    “Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.   
     
    “This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this see so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine.”   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    The First Vatican Council   
    Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Dei Filius   
    Pope Pius IX, 24 April 1870 A.D.   
     
    “Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.”  
     
    Humani Generis    
    On Modern Errors    
    Pope Pius XII – August 12, 1950    
     
    Paragraph 20: “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority (magisterio ordinario), of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)  
     
    Notice above in Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII infallibly teaches that   
     
    1.)   Encyclical Letters are the Ordinary Magisterium, "of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)   
    2.)   So if we admit that Christ is infallible  
    3.)   Then we must admit that Encyclicals and the Ordinary Magisterium are infallible. 
     
    Mortalium Animos, Encyclical by Pope Pius XI, 1928 
     
    “The Magisterium of the Church (“Ecclesia Magisterium”) which in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that revealed doctrines might remain intact forever, and that they might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men, … is daily exercised [cotidie exerceturthrough the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops who are in communion with him.” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928) 
     
    Note Well: The Teaching Authority (Magisterium) of the Church is exercised every day…not just in extraordinary circuмstances, so there is no way to maintain that Vatican II and 62 years worth of Encyclicals and Catechisms from 1958-2020 weren’t the Magisterium of the Church…the Church’s Magisterium is incapable of teaching heresies…thus it is proof positive that John XXIII – Francis are not now/have never been, true Popes. 
     
    Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943: 
     
    22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican19 It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. 
     
    23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church,as does schism or heresy or apostasy. 
     
    31. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she might be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces.
     
     
    If Bergoglio is the Pope, then Vatican II is the Magisterium!
     
    In 2020, the church in Italy marked the 50th anniversary of the “renewal of catechesis” following the Second Vatican Council.
     
    “The catechesis inspired by the Council,” said Pope Francis, “is continually listening to the heart of the man, always with an attentive ear, always seeking to renew itself.”
     
    Pope Francis insisted: “This is the Magisterium. The Council is the Magisterium of the Church. Either you are with the Church and therefore you follow the Council, and if you don't follow the Council or you interpret it in your own away, as you desire, you do not stand with the Church.” He asked that there be "no concessions to those who seek to present a catechesis that does not agree with the Magisterium of the Church.”
    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-01/pope-francis-catechesis-is-the-echo-of-the-word-of-god.html
     
     
    If Paul VI was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium
     
    "Each and all these items which are set forth in this Dogmatic Constitution have met with the approval of the Council Fathers. And We by the apostolic power given Us by Christ together with the Venerable Fathers in the Holy Spirit, approve, decree and establish it and command that what has thus been decided in the Council be promulgated for the glory of God.  (The last paragraph of every Vatican II Docuмent, including the “Dogmatic Constitutions” of Vatican II)
     
     
    “Given the pastoral character of the Council, it avoided pronouncing in an extraordinary way dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility; but it has nevertheless furnished its teachings with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium, which ordinary and so obviously authentic magisterium must be received docilely and sincerely by all the faithful, according to the mind of the Council concerning the nature and purposes of the individual docuмents.  
    https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html  
     
    If John Paul II was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium
     
    Fidei Depositum
    Apostolic Constitution, John Paul II, Oct. 11, 1992
     ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
     PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN EcuмENICAL COUNCIL  
      
    To my Venerable Brothers the Cardinals, 
     to the Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, 
     Deacons and all the People of God 
     
      
    JOHN PAUL II, BISHOP
     SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD
     FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY
      
    THE DOCTRINAL VALUE OF THE TEXT  
     
    “The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of Catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion and a sure norm for teaching the faith.”


    Offline roscoe

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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #48 on: February 18, 2021, 01:55:36 PM »
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  • Link not found... :confused:
    I suspect that if you ask the newbie "GregoryPiusLeoSarto", that he will have it.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #49 on: February 18, 2021, 03:03:26 PM »
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  • Link not found... :confused:
    Yes, this is discussed on page 2 of this thread.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #50 on: February 18, 2021, 03:59:22 PM »
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  • Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!
    Unfortunately, the courageous thing to do would have been to ignore Bugnolo and leave the pro-sedevacantism blog entry up (which he clearly agreed with).  But courageous NO bishops are sorely lacking, so I'm not surprised.

    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #51 on: February 18, 2021, 05:44:19 PM »
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  • This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #52 on: February 18, 2021, 07:34:53 PM »
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  • This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.
    Edited...well that's because you checked the wrong date.  It was Feb 13th not January. 

    The claim was not spurious.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #54 on: February 18, 2021, 08:20:58 PM »
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  • This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tZtsnoRS3y0J:https://abyssum.org/author/abyssum/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d



    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #56 on: February 18, 2021, 09:54:18 PM »
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  • Pope Bl. Pius IX taught in Etsi Multa that saying an Ecuмenical Council taught heresy is itself heretical, and denies Church Indefectibility: "Incredibly, they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred." His Holiness said the Old Catholics, in their doctrine, novelty and number overturn all the marks and properties of religion: "23. These unhappy men undermine the foundations of religion, overturn all its marks and properties, and invent so many foul errors, or rather, draw forth from the ancient store of heretics and gather them together and publish them. Yet they do not blush to call themselves Catholics and Old Catholics, while in their doctrine, novelty, and number they show themselves in no way to be either old or Catholic". The Pope also taught the Church was Universal and would be in all nations until the end of the world: "Tell me on account of those who say: it was and is no longer; on account of those who say: the scriptures have been fulfilled, all nations have believed, but the Church has apostatized and perished from all nations. And He announced and the voice was not vain. What did He announce? ‘Behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world.’ Moved by your voices and your false opinions, it asked of God that He announce to it the length of its days and it found that God said ‘Behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world.’ Here you will say: He spoke about us; we are as we will be until the end of the world. Christ Himself is asked; He says ‘and this gospel will be preached in the whole world, in testimony to all nations, and then will come the end.’ Therefore the Church will be among all nations until the end of the world." From: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9etsimu.htm

    A Council of Bishops cannot err in recognizing the Head of the Episcopate. That is Universal Acceptance. Yet sedes hold they erred.

    Also, the Ordinary Magisterium is Authoritative, but not Infallible. See the Wiki article on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsequium_religiosum

    It cites Donum Veritatis, from the post-V2 Magisterium, that itself acknowledges this: "
    Withholding assent[edit]
    Donum Veritatis also allows that even if, "not habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments...some Magisterial docuмents might not be free from all deficiencies," and withholding assent is allowed for a theologian, "who might have serious difficulties, for reasons which appear to him wellfounded, in accepting a non-irreformable magisterial teaching." In such "even if the doctrine of the faith is not in question, the theologian will not present his own opinions or divergent hypotheses as though they were non-arguable conclusions," and is to "refrain from giving untimely public expression to them," and "avoid turning to the mass media," but with a humble and teachable spirit it is his duty "to make known to the Magisterial authorities the problems raised by the teaching in itself, in the arguments proposed to justify it, or even in the manner in which it is presented," with "an intense and patient reflection on his part and a readiness, if need be, to revise his own opinions and examine the objections which his colleagues might offer him", prayerfully trusting "that if the truth really is at stake, it will ultimately prevail."

    The same is taught by pre-Vatican II Theologians. Xavier Da Silveira mentions some of them in his article, "Can the Pope go bad?"

    Offline GregoryPiusLeoSarto

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #57 on: February 20, 2021, 12:05:16 AM »
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  • Watch this on Peaceful Universal Acceptance, what it means and how we certainly have not had it for Bergoglio: https://youtu.be/RLJerBPp3uo?t=640

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #58 on: February 21, 2021, 10:55:58 AM »
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  • That is not written by the Bishop, it is post form Jason Fabaz, apparently Jason has the Bishop on his list or someone forwarded it to the Bishop. However, the fact the Bishop put it on his site, shows that he agrees.
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