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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: RomanCatholic1953 on February 17, 2021, 01:30:23 PM

Title: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on February 17, 2021, 01:30:23 PM
Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/rxHxNhVFpktd4gEVUxZYzbdjd/jkgaxl8li45rq6bi3tghkzwi50egstqfudbuwtl.webp?size=256x144)
Retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, believes that Francis is “not a bishop, not a Catholic and not a Pope” (Abyssum.org, January 13).

Gracida now openly (https://www.gloria.tv/post/hEUD1xSMqGkz1bd3LNA2Vrevv) embraces sedevacantism, the theory that Pius XII (+1958) was the last pope implying that after him the Church ended. For Gracida, John XXIII started a "false church," and he and all his successors were impostors.

Gracida claims that the Novus Ordo episcopal consecration is "invalid since 1968.” He excludes however his own January 1972 consecration which, according to him, didn't follow the Novus Ordo although Paul VI's ordination rite was introduced in April 1969.

An ardent former follower of John Paul II, Gracida now calls Vatican II “heretical.” He believes the Ultramontanist myth that "the Pope is the bulwark of the Catholic faith" and notices correctly that “no one could seriously say this about the antipopes of the Vatican II Church.”

Sedevacantism is a consequence of Ultramontanism which considers the pope a living oracle. Once it becomes evident that this is not true, the inevitable conclusion is that a deficient pope is not a pope at all.

#newsIkhqiuinvp (https://www.gloria.tv/hashtag/newsIkhqiuinvp)

(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/ZZaGSMDMuccL1XxWyTaVHvCHE/d518eglormvjbcapz7w3nkh1uxkfzp4vggwffii.webp?size=768x603)(https://www.gloria.tv/icon/upvote?6V3LS7tYsQaR3mXmE2gzdqHdD)3Like Share



 (https://www.gloria.tv/atreverse%20pensar)

1 hour ago
No, sedevacantism is not that.
The Church is unfailing, but there may not be a valid pope, especially in recent times.
Lefebvre and some other bishops have preserved the sacrament of Holy Orders and the traditional Mass.
On the invalidity of the new ritual of ordination of bishops, I am not so clear.
But a pope cannot formally teach error.
Sedevacantism is not ultramontanism.
(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/rxHxNhVFpktd4gEVUxZYzbdjd/ymt8tmmsbti1837c6loztao8t7bcmwincmmmmhs.webp?crop=36x0:322x286&size=64x64)
 (https://www.gloria.tv/user/HNFhyeH4zXJo3cZnHHZNwfKob)

43 minutes ago
I think GTV knows what sedevacantism is. This fellow Garcia is an utter nutter. Has been for some time.


(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/ss1VZbCRYisL1dbLuRSAbHyJU/qxmos5fg09yxpi0j8h2iilvdyyq5tye1vbxtrmj.webp?crop=32x0:219x187&size=64x64)
 (https://www.gloria.tv/n2999c)

2 hours ago
You all might just want to keep an open mind about it.

(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/rxHxNhVFpktd4gEVUxZYzbdjd/jkgaxl8li45rq6bi3tghkzwi50egstqfudbuwtl.webp?size=256x144)
Retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, believes that Francis is “not a bishop, not a Catholic and not a Pope” (Abyssum.org, January 13).

Gracida now openly (https://www.gloria.tv/post/hEUD1xSMqGkz1bd3LNA2Vrevv) embraces sedevacantism, the theory that Pius XII (+1958) was the last pope implying that after him the Church ended. For Gracida, John XXIII started a "false church," and he and all his successors were impostors.

Gracida claims that the Novus Ordo episcopal consecration is "invalid since 1968.” He excludes however his own January 1972 consecration which, according to him, didn't follow the Novus Ordo although Paul VI's ordination rite was introduced in April 1969.

An ardent former follower of John Paul II, Gracida now calls Vatican II “heretical.” He believes the Ultramontanist myth that "the Pope is the bulwark of the Catholic faith" and notices correctly that “no one could seriously say this about the antipopes of the Vatican II Church.”

Sedevacantism is a consequence of Ultramontanism which considers the pope a living oracle. Once it becomes evident that this is not true, the inevitable conclusion is that a deficient pope is not a pope at all.

#newsIkhqiuinvp (https://www.gloria.tv/hashtag/newsIkhqiuinvp)

(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/ZZaGSMDMuccL1XxWyTaVHvCHE/d518eglormvjbcapz7w3nkh1uxkfzp4vggwffii.webp?size=768x603)(https://www.gloria.tv/icon/upvote?6V3LS7tYsQaR3mXmE2gzdqHdD)3Like Share



 (https://www.gloria.tv/atreverse%20pensar)

1 hour ago
No, sedevacantism is not that.
The Church is unfailing, but there may not be a valid pope, especially in recent times.
Lefebvre and some other bishops have preserved the sacrament of Holy Orders and the traditional Mass.
On the invalidity of the new ritual of ordination of bishops, I am not so clear.
But a pope cannot formally teach error.
Sedevacantism is not ultramontanism.
(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/rxHxNhVFpktd4gEVUxZYzbdjd/ymt8tmmsbti1837c6loztao8t7bcmwincmmmmhs.webp?crop=36x0:322x286&size=64x64)
 (https://www.gloria.tv/user/HNFhyeH4zXJo3cZnHHZNwfKob)

43 minutes ago
I think GTV knows what sedevacantism is. This fellow Garcia is an utter nutter. Has been for some time.


(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/ss1VZbCRYisL1dbLuRSAbHyJU/qxmos5fg09yxpi0j8h2iilvdyyq5tye1vbxtrmj.webp?crop=32x0:219x187&size=64x64)
 (https://www.gloria.tv/n2999c)

2 hours ago
You all might just want to keep an open mind about it.

Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Matthew on February 17, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
There are lots of conciliar faithful, clergy, etc. who seem to be jumping straight into Sedevacantism -- basically from one extreme to the other.

Then again, that is to be expected. After all, they are NEWBIES to the fight -- and no solution to the Crisis is so simple, so cut-and-dried, so easy for anyone (of any IQ) to understand as the Sedevacantist option.

Not only that, but human beings have a tendency to jump from one extreme to the other. A prostitute becoming a puritan about sex, for example. Or a drunk becoming a teetotaler. From excess to defect, or from defect to excess. It happens all the time.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mr G on February 17, 2021, 01:51:07 PM
Here is the Bishops' blog: ABYSSUS ABYSSUM INVOCAT / DEEP CALLS TO DEEP | Commentary on all things Catholic, Roman that is! (https://abyssum.org/)

I was not able to find when he switched from the position of "Benedict is Pope" as seen here I BELIEVE | ABYSSUS ABYSSUM INVOCAT / DEEP CALLS TO DEEP (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) to "no one is Pope".
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: MyrnaM on February 17, 2021, 02:02:18 PM
Perhaps he noticed a Bull of past Church history.

The Fifth Lateran Council (1512-1517) happened in the sixteenth century before another important council, Trent. Lateran V addressed issues that were very sensitive in the Church.
The victor of the Fifth Lateran Council was the institution of the Papacy & condemnation of conciliarism.
Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.  
SESSION 5 
16 February 1513 
[Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the
evil of simony when electing the Roman Pontiff. Simony is more than money. It is what profits or benefits an evil act (benefices).
Fifth Lateran Council was NEVER revoked but was convened in response to a council summoned at Pisa by a group of Cardinals who were hostile to the Pope. The principles remain. One concerned the election of Pope, it was decreed that simoniacal papal elections would be invalid and subject to penalty.

YOU CAN READ IT HERE:
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecuм18.htm (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecuм18.htm)
Pay attention to SESSION 5

Therefore if we know it to be true that infiltrators had occupied the Vatican and elected their man, it was null and void. No Pope!

No one to make the consecration, perhaps another day in happier times when Vatican II is declared null and void as well we will have the Consecration Our Lady asked for.  









 

Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 02:41:47 PM
Wow, this is exciting news! But at 97 years old this man better move fast if he wants to do anything about the situation. And I mean real fast.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 17, 2021, 02:47:33 PM
There are lots of conciliar faithful, clergy, etc. who seem to be jumping straight into Sedevacantism -- basically from one extreme to the other.

Then again, that is to be expected. After all, they are NEWBIES to the fight -- and no solution to the Crisis is so simple, so cut-and-dried, so easy for anyone (of any IQ) to understand as the Sedevacantist option.

Not only that, but human beings have a tendency to jump from one extreme to the other. A prostitute becoming a puritan about sex, for example. Or a drunk becoming a teetotaler. From excess to defect, or from defect to excess. It happens all the time.
Matthew, this is not just a newbie, if this is true, this is a very serious claim from a very serious person. (Presumably) From his blog, he cites Pius XII’s Mystici Corporis Christi to support his stance.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 17, 2021, 02:49:28 PM
Wow, this is exciting news! But at 97 years old this man better move fast if he wants to do anything about the situation. And I mean real fast.
That’s what I was thinking. I just wrote to him.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 17, 2021, 03:14:01 PM
Here is the Bishops' blog: ABYSSUS ABYSSUM INVOCAT / DEEP CALLS TO DEEP | Commentary on all things Catholic, Roman that is! (https://abyssum.org/)

I was not able to find when he switched from the position of "Benedict is Pope" as seen here I BELIEVE | ABYSSUS ABYSSUM INVOCAT / DEEP CALLS TO DEEP (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) to "no one is Pope".
Yeah...I'll believe it when I see it.

ETA: Hmmm...I think I may have found the entry:

https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/

In the Catholic Church, however, the Pope is “the citadel and bulwark of the Catholic faith” (Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Qui Nuper (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quinup.htm), n. 3). No one could seriously say this about the antipopes of the Vatican II Church. It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I. 
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 17, 2021, 03:22:23 PM
https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/ (https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/)
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 03:31:51 PM
Okay, this is pretty weird, because if you read his page I believe (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) it makes it clear that he is Bennyvacantist. Maybe he has changed his position recently and has not yet updated his I Believe (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) page. You'd think he'd make some sort of announcement if he had had such a drastic alteration of position on something so important.
.
I'm not sure what to make of the whole thing.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 17, 2021, 03:35:09 PM
Okay, this is pretty weird, because if you read his page I believe (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) it makes it clear that he is Bennyvacantist. Maybe he has changed his position recently and has not yet updated his I Believe (https://abyssum.org/i-believe/) page. You'd think he'd make some sort of announcement if he had had such a drastic alteration of position on something so important.
.
I'm not sure what to make of the whole thing.
The blog entry I (and Mirari Vos) posted is dated February 13th....so he may not have updated that yet.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 03:51:08 PM
Yes, reading through his website a bit more, especially the recent article cited here, it does seem that he is a true sedevacantist and rejects Paul 6 and his successors as popes. But when he says that, he doesn't even allude to the fact that he accepts Benedict 16 as pope on a different page on his website. You would expect something like, "I used to think Benedict 16 was pope, but I don't anymore because ..." He simply states that sedevacantism is true as though he had never held anything else.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 17, 2021, 04:20:02 PM
ETA: Hmmm...I think I may have found the entry:

https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/

In the Catholic Church, however, the Pope is “the citadel and bulwark of the Catholic faith”  (Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Qui Nuper (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quinup.htm), n. 3). No one could seriously say this about the antipopes of the Vatican II Church. It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I.


Thank you for quoting that.

From the OP, the Gloria.tv article:


Quote
An ardent former follower of John Paul II, Gracida now calls Vatican II “heretical.” He believes the Ultramontanist myth that "the Pope is the bulwark of the Catholic faith"


OFFENSIVE TO PIOUS EARS
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 17, 2021, 04:46:49 PM
https://twitter.com/NovusOrdoWatch/status/1191435110362615808


(https://i.ibb.co/9cSsRVx/Screenshot-2021-02-17-Novus-Ordo-Watch-on-Twitter.png)
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mr G on February 17, 2021, 04:56:56 PM
https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/ (https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/)
That is not written by the Bishop, it is post form Jason Fabaz, apparently Jason has the Bishop on his list or someone forwarded it to the Bishop. However, the fact the Bishop put it on his site, shows that he agrees.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 17, 2021, 05:10:53 PM
That is not written by the Bishop, it is post form Jason Fabaz, apparently Jason has the Bishop on his list or someone forwarded it to the Bishop. However, the fact the Bishop put it on his site, shows that he agrees.
No, it looks like he was writing to Jason.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 05:18:17 PM
No, it looks like he was writing to Jason.
Yes. At the top of the article it says: "To: Jason Fabaz <fabazjas@hotmail.com>"
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 08:06:45 PM
Quote
the theory that Pius XII (+1958) was the last pope implying that after him the Church ended.
Wow, horrible straw man fallacy right away. 

Quote
He believes the Ultramontanist myth that "the Pope is the bulwark of the Catholic faith"


Ughhhh. This is just sad. “Ultramontanism” is Catholicism. Secondly, they just paraphrased H.H. Pope Pius IX’s teaching in Qui Nuper on the Papacy and called it a myth... Pathetic.




Quote
Sedevacantism is a consequence of Ultramontanism which considers the pope a living oracle. 


“ Wherefore it belongs to the Pope to judge authoritatively what things the sacred oracles contain, as well as what doctrines are in harmony, and what in disagreement, with them... For, otherwise, there would be no sure interpreter of the commands of God, nor would there be any safe guide showing man the way he should live.“
Leo XII, Sapientiae Christianae 
The Pope’s teaching is always safe to follow. 

Quote
Once it becomes evident that this is not true, the inevitable conclusion is that a deficient pope is not a pope at all.


Wrong again. 
“The Pope has the divine promises; even in his human weaknesses, he is invincible and unshakable; he is the messenger of truth and justice, the principle of the unity of the Church...” 
Pius XII, Ancora Una Volta
I wish these people would just come out a plainly admit it: THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN THE CHURCH’S TEACHING ON THE PAPACY. 
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 08:15:01 PM
https://ƚwιƚƚeɾ.com/NovusOrdoWatch/status/1191435110362615808


(https://i.ibb.co/9cSsRVx/Screenshot-2021-02-17-Novus-Ordo-Watch-on-ƚwιƚƚeɾ.png)
Remnant Conference! Where we can all listen to Matt whine about something  :jester:
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 08:19:28 PM
That page is not on his blog anymore.... 

Can someone else confirm?
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Matto on February 17, 2021, 08:21:42 PM
The Pope’s teaching is always safe to follow.
No it is not, because according to your doctrine it is impossible to know when one encounters a new teaching if the man who taught it is a true Pope or not. According to your doctrine, at any time a Pope can fall into heresy and cease to be a Pope without the world knowing, therefore it is impossible to know if any teaching of any Pope is true or not, because at any moment he can fall into heresy and fall from the papacy, or (if you argue a man cannot fall from the papacy but would have always been an antipope because of heresy before his ɛƖɛctıon but it goes unnoticed) otherwise be a false Pope who never was a Pope because of heresy, but fooled the whole world. So either way one would have to judge what the Pope says based on tradition and the faith. The only way it would be always safe to follow the Pope's teaching is if God would never allow a Pope to fall into heresy at all or teach anything wrong, or ever rise to the throne falsely and be wrongly accepted as Pope by the entire world, so that what happened in the past sixty two years would be impossible. Since the past sixty two years did happen we have to come up with different answers.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 08:39:07 PM
No it is not, because according to your doctrine it is impossible to know when one encounters a new teaching if the man who taught it is a true Pope or not. According to your doctrine, at any time a Pope can fall into heresy and cease to be a Pope without the world knowing, therefore it is impossible to know if any teaching of any Pope is true or not, because at any moment he can fall into heresy and fall from the papacy, or (if you argue a man cannot fall from the papacy but would have always been an antipope because of heresy before his ɛƖɛctıon but it goes unnoticed) otherwise be a false Pope who never was a Pope because of heresy, but fooled the whole world. So either way one would have to judge what the Pope says based on tradition and the faith. The only way it would be always safe to follow the Pope's teaching is if God would never allow a Pope to fall into heresy at all or teach anything wrong, or ever rise to the throne falsely and be wrongly accepted as Pope by the entire world, so that what happened in the past sixty two years would be impossible. Since the past sixty two years did happen we have to come up with different answers.
Matto, I had a whole reply ready to go, and when I clicked reply, I was logged out so it lost everything...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 08:55:15 PM
That page is not on his blog anymore....

Can someone else confirm?
.
Whoa, you're right! It's gone! What the hell??! Oh well, easy come, easy go. If he's going to retract his statement because of some cheesey hit-piece like the one in the OP, then I guess it was a waste of time to expect him to call for a council of bishops to declare Bergoglio a heretic and anti-pope and proceed to an election of a true pope.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 09:01:37 PM
.
Whoa, you're right! It's gone! What the hell??! Oh well, easy come, easy go. If he's going to retract his statement because of some cheesey hit-piece like the one in the OP, then I guess it was a waste of time to expect him to call for a council of bishops to declare Bergoglio a heretic and anti-pope and proceed to an ɛƖɛctıon of a true pope.
This is really odd. I hope Bp. Sanborn gets in contact with him!
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
The timing of this whole thing sure is weird. Five days ago Gracida's article is posted on his blog. Then, early today Gloria.tv writes the hit piece. Same day, Gracida's article gets taken down.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 17, 2021, 09:06:21 PM
From Gracida's article that he deleted:
.
That Paul VI was able to invalidate a sacramental rite, therefore, is further evidence that he was not a true Pope and that the Vatican II Sect of which he was the head is not the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII and his predecessors."
.

"It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I."
.
The whole thing was very good and I regret not saving a copy. Then again, it may not matter that much if he has retracted it anyway.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 17, 2021, 09:19:43 PM
From Gracida's article that he deleted:
.
That Paul VI was able to invalidate a sacramental rite, therefore, is further evidence that he was not a true Pope and that the Vatican II Sect of which he was the head is not the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII and his predecessors."
.

"It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I."
.
The whole thing was very good and I regret not saving a copy. Then again, it may not matter that much if he has retracted it anyway.
I don’t know man. I am sure he had to put up with a lot of push back by rejecting Bergoglio and maintaining Ratz from his peers. If he had enough courage and fortitude to do that for several years, I don’t see him retracting his position after one single attack. 
But, I could be wrong. The sede position can be quite daunting considering you are treated the most poorly of any of the “Catholic” positions today. 
I hope he’ll stay true to it.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 17, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
From Gracida's article that he deleted:
.
That Paul VI was able to invalidate a sacramental rite, therefore, is further evidence that he was not a true Pope and that the Vatican II Sect of which he was the head is not the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII and his predecessors."
.

"It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I."
.
The whole thing was very good and I regret not saving a copy. Then again, it may not matter that much if he has retracted it anyway.
No worries, I saved a bunch of screen shots and will post them soon. I still have the webpage in my history, but I don’t know how to save it. Any help?
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 17, 2021, 09:43:29 PM
Bergoglio, Three Things He is Not…

Not a Bishop, Not a Catholic and Not a Pope. Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943:   22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jҽωs or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-17-357) As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-18-357) And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican. 19 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-19-357) It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.   23. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church,as does schism or heresy or apostasy.  


Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, June 29, 1896:   “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”(# 13)      “… it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside the Church can command in the Church.”(#15)      “If anyone holds to one single one of these (heresies) he is not a Catholic.”(#28)    St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church, De Romane Pontifice  “For men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple [simpliciter], and condemn him as a heretic.” (St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church, in his book, De Romane Pontifice)  The Novus Ordo Rite of Consecration of Bishops is invalid since 1968 https://novusordowatch.org/2018/06/unholy-orders-50-years-invalid-ordinations/ (https://novusordowatch.org/2018/06/unholy-orders-50-years-invalid-ordinations/) To prove the invalidity of Paul VI’s ordination rite, we provide a plethora of links further down below, but just to give you a quick preview, see for yourself how badly Montini butchered the essential form of the consecration of bishops, thus totally destroying the sacrament: Traditional Roman Catholic form, per Pope Pius XII (1947):Comple in Sacerdote tuo ministerii tui summam, et ornamentis totius glorificationis instructum coelestis unguenti rore sanctifica.


[Translation:] “Perfect in Thy priest the fullness of thy ministry and, clothing him in all the ornaments of spiritual glorification, sanctify him with the Heavenly anointing.” Modernist Novus Ordo form, per Antipope Paul VI (1968):Et nunc effunde super hunc Electum eam virtutem, quae a te est, Spiritum principalem, quem dedisti dilecto Filio Tuo Iesu Christo, quem Ipse donavit sanctis Apostolis, qui constituerunt Ecclesiam per singula loca, ut sanctuarium tuum, in gloriam et laudem indeficientem nominis tui.


[Translation:] “So now pour out upon this chosen one that power which is from you, the governing Spirit whom you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, the Spirit given by him to the holy apostles, who founded the Church in every place to be your temple for the unceasing glory and praise of your name.” Not only does the bogus Novus Ordo form totally replace the words decreed by Pius XII as essential to validity, they do not even in any way express that what is taking place is the consecration of a bishop! They do not even ask the Holy Ghost to make the ordinand into a bishop! Instead, even if one were to say that the totally abstruse phrase “Spiritum principalem” (“Governing Spirit”) is a clear reference to the Holy Ghost, the fact remains that it is not stated just what the Holy Ghost is supposed to be doing. God the Father is being asked to “pour out” the Holy Ghost (or at least that “Governing Spirit”) — but to do what? To what end? We’re not told. The Holy Ghost is poured out also in baptism, in confirmation, and in ordinations of deacons and priests, for example. Paul VI’s claim that he was introducing these changes “in order to restore the texts of the rite to the form they had in antiquity, to clarify expressions, or to bring out more clearly the effects of the sacraments” (Pontificalis Romani) is beyond laughable; it is, in fact, insulting to the intelligence of the informed reader. In any case, just over 20 years prior, Pope Pius XII had noted that “ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity” (Encyclical mєdιαtor Dei (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mєdια.htm), n. 61).


A sacramental form that does not express what it is supposed to accomplish is definitely invalid, as the articles about the invalidity of Novus Ordo ordinations below demonstrate. In addition to changing the sacramental form of priestly and episcopal ordination, in his docuмent Pontificalis Romani Paul VI also abolished the major order of subdeacon and all of the minor orders (acolyte, exorcist, lector, and porter), none of which are sacraments, but whose denial was condemned by the Council of Trent and flies in the face of the Modernists’ favorite lie to seek to restore things to “antiquity”: …[F]om the very beginning of the Church the names of the following orders and the duties proper to each one are known to have been in use, namely those of the subdeacon, acolyte, exorcist, rector, and porter, though not of equal rank; for the subdiaconate is classed among the major orders by the Fathers and the sacred Councils, in which we also read very frequently of other inferior orders. Can. 2. If anyone says that besides the priesthood there are in the Catholic Church no other orders, both major and minor, by which as by certain grades, there is an advance to the priesthood: let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Session 23; Denz. 958, 962 (http://denzinger.patristica.net/#n900)) Rome has spoken; the case is closed. But before anyone suggests that somehow Paul VI’s constitution “isn’t binding”, we must point out that in it he clearly invokes his supposed (but non-existent) “apostolic authority” and requires that this new rite be used in place of the prior, Catholic one: By our apostolic authority we approve this rite so that it may be used in the future for the conferral of these orders in place of the rite now found in the Roman Pontifical. It is our will that these our decrees and prescriptions be firm and effective now and in the future, notwithstanding, to the extent necessary, the apostolic constitutions and ordinances issued by our predecessors and other prescriptions, even those deserving particular mention and amendment. (Antipope Paul VI, “Apostolic Constitution” Pontificalis Romani; underlining added.)


According to a decree of the Novus Ordo Sacred Congregation of Rites dated August 15, 1968, Montini’s new rite of ordination became obligatory for the entire Latin church as of Easter Sunday, April 6, 1969. So we know for sure that since at least this date, the Novus Ordo church has not validly consecrated a single bishop in the Roman rite, and probably not ordained a single valid priest, either. The repercussions are unfathomable — but they explain a lot about the state of the New Church. The sacraments are largely gone, so there is simply no grace there, and it shows. But the true Catholic Church cannot give evil or harmful or invalid sacramental rites to her faithful. Such an idea would contradict the promise of infallibility and indefectibility given by our Blessed Lord. That Paul VI was able to invalidate a sacramental rite, therefore, is further evidence that he was not a true Pope and that the Vatican II Sect of which he was the head is not the Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII and his predecessors. Consider the following clear teachings: If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of Masses, are incentives to impiety rather than the services of piety: let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Session 22, Canon 7; Denz. 954 (http://denzinger.patristica.net/#n900)) Certainly the loving Mother [the Church] is spotless in the Sacraments, by which she gives birth to and nourishes her children; in the faith which she has always preserved inviolate; in her sacred laws imposed on all; in the evangelical counsels which she recommends; in those heavenly gifts and extraordinary graces through which, with inexhaustible fecundity, she generates hosts of martyrs, virgins and confessors. (Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm), n. 66) The Church is infallible in her general discipline. By the term general discipline is understood the laws and practices which belong to the external ordering of the whole Church. Such things would be those which concern either external worship, such as liturgy and rubrics, or the administration of the sacraments…. If she [the Church] were able to prescribe or command or tolerate in her discipline something against faith and morals, or something which tended to the detriment of the Church or to the harm of the faithful, she would turn away from her divine mission, which would be impossible. (Jean Herrmann, Institutiones Theologiae Dogmaticae, Vol. 1 (https://stjosephschurch.net/traditionalists-infallibility-and-the-pope/), p. 258)


Try to apply this to the Novus Ordo Church, and you realize very quickly that it leads to absurdity. It is simply undeniable that the Vatican II Church has defected, has given evil, has destroyed the sacraments, and has been a scandal to the faithful rather than the embassy of salvation. In the Catholic Church, however, the Pope is “the citadel and bulwark of the Catholic faith” (Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Qui Nuper (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quinup.htm), n. 3). No one could seriously say this about the antipopes of the Vatican II Church. It follows with logical necessity, therefore, that Paul VI was not a true Pope but an impostor, as were his predecessor John XXIII, who started the false church, and his successors John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and now Francis I. As the late Fr. Carl Pulvermacher, OFM Cap., is sometimes quoted as having said, “Once there are no more valid priests, they’ll permit the Latin Mass.”


Think about that!  New “Rite” of “Episcopal Consecration” is Invalid In Sacramentum Ordinis, Nov. 30, 1947, Pope Pius XII declared what is the essential form for the Consecration of Bishops:    TRADITIONAL FORM FOR CONSECRATION OF BISHOPS  Pope Pius XII, Sacramentum Ordinis, Nov. 30, 1947: “But regarding the matter and form in the conferring of every order, by Our same supreme apostolic authority We decree and establish the following: …in the Episcopal ordination or consecration… the form consists of the words of the ‘Preface,’ of which the following are essential and so required for validity:    ► “Complete in Thy priest the fullness of Thy ministry, and adorned in the raiment of all glory, sanctify him with the dew of heavenly anointing.”[2] (https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/new-rite-consecration-bishops/#_edn2)    With its mention of “the fullness of Thy ministry… raiment of all glory” this traditional form unequivocally signifies the power of the episcopacy, which is the “fullness of the priesthood.” Paul VI’s new form in the 1968 rite is given below.  The two forms only have one thing in common, the single word “et,” which means “and.”    PAUL VI’S NEW FORM FOR CONSECRATION OF BISHOPS  • “So now pour out upon this chosen one that power which is from you, the governing Spirit whom you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, the Spirit given by Him to the holy apostles, who founded the Church in every place to be your temple for the unceasing glory and praise of your name.”[3] (https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/new-rite-consecration-bishops/#_edn3)    This new form does not unequivocally signify the power of the episcopacy.  The phrase “governing Spirit” is used to refer to many things in scripture or tradition (e.g. Psalm 5:14), but it doesn’t unequivocally signify the powers of the episcopacy.  Therefore, the new form is of gravely doubtful validity.   In addition to the devastating change to the essential form, many other things have been deleted. In fact, there is not one unambiguous statement about the intended sacramental effect of Episcopal Consecration that can be found.  


In the Traditional Rite of Consecration, the consecrator instructs the bishop elect in the following terms:   A bishop judges, interprets, consecrates, ordains, offers, baptizes and confirms.”   This has been abolished.   ►In the Traditional Rite, the bishop-to-be is asked to confirm his belief in each and every article of the Creed.   This has been abolished.   ►In the Traditional Rite, the bishop-to-be is asked if he will “anathematize every heresy that shall arise against the Holy Catholic Church.”   This has been abolished.     The deletion of this requirement to anathematize heresy is significant, for this is indeed one of the functions of a bishop.    In the Traditional Rite, after the consecratory prayer, the functions of a bishop are once again specified in these words:   ►”Give him, O Lord, the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven… Whatsoever he shall bind upon earth, let it be bound likewise in Heaven, and whatsoever he shall loose upon earth, let it likewise be loosed in Heaven.  Whose sins he shall retain, let them be retained, and do Thou remit the sins of whomsoever he shall remit… Grant him, O Lord, an Episcopal chair…”   This entire prayer has been abolished in the New Rite.   Conclusion:  Paul VI’s New Rite of Episcopal Consecration has a radically different form from what Pius XII declared was necessary for validity. The new form does not unequivocally signify the powers of the episcopacy.  The New Rite of Episcopal Consecration cannot be considered valid, since doubtful matter or form is considered invalid.  


All “priests” ordained by “bishops” consecrated in this rite, even if the Traditional Rite of Ordination was used, such as with most of the Fraternity of St. Peter priests, Institute of Christ the King priests, etc. cannot be considered valid priests.  Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943:   22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jҽωs or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-17-357) As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-18-357) And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican. 19 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-19-357) It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.   23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.   31. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she might be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces.   Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, June 29, 1896:   “You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held.”(# 13)      “… it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside the Church can command in the Church.”(#15)      “If anyone holds to one single one of these (heresies) he is not a Catholic.”(#28)    Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943:   “For not every offense, although it may be a grave evil, is such as by its very own nature [suapte natura] to sever a man from the Body of the Church [ab Ecclesiae Corpore], as does schism or heresy or apostasy.” (# 23)      


Pope Pius XII teaches that the offense of heresy itself, by its very own nature [suapte natura in Latin], severs a man, not just from the Soul of the Church, but from the Body of the Church.      St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church, De Romane Pontifice  “For men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple [simpliciter], and condemn him as a heretic.” (St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Church, in his book, De Romane Pontifice)
 

What Does the Magisterium Teach? Humility is the path both to being a Catholic & to saving our soul. Heretics pick & choose which Magisterial teachings they accept & which they reject. Heretics judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they think they know better than the Magisterium. Heretics make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.


Catholics do NOT pick & choose which Magisterial teachings to accept & which to reject, they MUST simply accept them all.  Catholics do NOT judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they do NOT think they know better than the Magisterium. Catholics do NOT make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false. Can you rebut the following by using infallible quotes from the Magisterium?  If not, then shouldn’t we believe exactly what Vatican I, Humani Generis and Mortalium Animos teach?   You, nor I, nor the SSPX, nor the Resistance, nor Archbishop Lefebvre are infallible.  The Catholic Church is infallible.  The “…See of St. Peter ALWAYS remains unblemished by any error.” (Vatican I) It was given a “gift of truth and NEVER failing faith.”  The Solemn Magisterium is infallible. (Vatican I) The Ordinary Magisterium is infallible. (Humani Generis) Encyclicals and Ecuмenical Councils are infallible. “…the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine.” (Mystici Corporis Christi)  


Vatican II is heretical and countless subsequent Encyclicals of the V2 popes are heretical, (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html)), therefore it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes, because Vatican I infallibly teaches:   The First Vatican Council  Dogmatic Constitution of Vatican I,Pastor Aeternus    Pope Pius IX, July 18, 1870 A.D.  
“Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.      “This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this see so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine.”  


The First Vatican Council    Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Dei Filius    Pope Pius IX, 24 April 1870 A.D.     “Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.”     Humani Generis    On Modern Errors    Pope Pius XII – August 12, 1950      Paragraph 20: “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority (magisterio ordinario), of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)   Notice above in Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII infallibly teaches that     Encyclical Letters are the Ordinary Magisterium, “of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)    So if we admit that Christ is infallible,   Then we must admit that Encyclicals and the Ordinary Magisterium are infallible.  Mortalium Animos, Encyclical by Pope Pius XI, 1928 “The Magisterium of the Church (“Ecclesia Magisterium”) which in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that revealed doctrines might remain intact forever, and that they might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men, … is daily exercised [cotidie exercetur] through the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops who are in communion with him.” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928)    


Note Well: The Teaching Authority (Magisterium) of the Church is exercised every day…not just in extraordinary circuмstances, so there is no way to maintain that Vatican II and 62 years worth of Encyclicals and Catechisms from 1958-2020 weren’t the Magisterium of the Church…the Church’s Magisterium is incapable of teaching heresies…thus it is proof positive that John XXIII – Francis are not now/have never been, true Popes.   Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943:   22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jҽωs or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-17-357) As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-18-357) And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican. 19 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-19-357) It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.   23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church,as does schism or heresy or apostasy.   31. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she might be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces. If Bergoglio is the Pope, then Vatican II is the Magisterium!

In 2020, the church in Italy marked the 50th anniversary of the “renewal of catechesis” following the Second Vatican Council.   “The catechesis inspired by the Council,” said Pope Francis, “is continually listening to the heart of the man, always with an attentive ear, always seeking to renew itself.”  Pope Francis insisted: “This is the Magisterium. The Council is the Magisterium of the Church. Either you are with the Church and therefore you follow the Council, and if you don’t follow the Council or you interpret it in your own away, as you desire, you do not stand with the Church.” He asked that there be “no concessions to those who seek to present a catechesis that does not agree with the Magisterium of the Church.” https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-01/pope-francis-catechesis-is-the-echo-of-the-word-of-god.html (https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-01/pope-francis-catechesis-is-the-echo-of-the-word-of-god.html)


If Paul VI was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium “Each and all these items which are set forth in this Dogmatic Constitution have met with the approval of the Council Fathers. And We by the apostolic power given Us by Christ together with the Venerable Fathers in the Holy Spirit, approve, decree and establish it and command that what has thus been decided in the Council be promulgated for the glory of God. (The last paragraph of every Vatican II Docuмent, including the “Dogmatic Constitutions” of Vatican II)  


Paul VI in a general audience of 12th January 1966 (http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html):   “Given the pastoral character of the Council, it avoided pronouncing in an extraordinary way dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility; but it has nevertheless furnished its teachings with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium, which ordinary and so obviously authentic magisterium must be received docilely and sincerely by all the faithful, according to the mind of the Council concerning the nature and purposes of the individual docuмents.   https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html (https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html)  


If John Paul II was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium  Fidei Depositum  Apostolic Constitution, John Paul II, Oct. 11, 1992

ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN EcuмENICAL COUNCIL      

To my Venerable Brothers the Cardinals, to the Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Deacons and all the People of God    

JOHN PAUL II, BISHOP SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY  

THE DOCTRINAL VALUE OF THE TEXT  

“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion and a sure norm for teaching the faith.”
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 17, 2021, 09:45:30 PM
I only skimmed it, but it's an eyesore.

Too much formatting.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 02:56:25 AM
Update: https://fromrome.info/2021/02/18/msgr-gracida-calls-gloria-tv-accusation-of-sedevacantism-a-hit-piece/



NEWS (https://fromrome.info/category/news/)
MSGR. GRACIDA CALLS GLORIA.TV ACCUSATION OF SEDEVACANTISM A “HIT PIECE”
FEBRUARY 18, 2021 (https://fromrome.info/2021/02/18/msgr-gracida-calls-gloria-tv-accusation-of-sedevacantism-a-hit-piece/) EDITOR (https://fromrome.info/author/marcianusaristides/) LEAVE A COMMENT (https://fromrome.info/2021/02/18/msgr-gracida-calls-gloria-tv-accusation-of-sedevacantism-a-hit-piece/#respond)
by Br. Alexis Bugnolo

Yesterday, the En.NEWS feed of Gloria.TV published an article entitled “Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism” (https://www.gloria.tv/post/SVTwgcTuLQbk6LFi7BSXcBHNK), causing an international sensation among Catholics.

The article opened with a statement of fact kind of assertion:

Retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, believes that Francis is “not a bishop, not a Catholic and not a Pope” (Abyssum.org, January 13).

Gracida now openly (https://www.gloria.tv/post/hEUD1xSMqGkz1bd3LNA2Vrevv) embraces sedevacantism, the theory that Pius XII (+1958) was the last pope implying that after him the Church ended. For Gracida, John XXIII started a “false church,” and he and all his successors were impostors.

The problem with the article is that its claim could not be more false.

Bishop Gracida is an ardent and life long opponent of Sedevacantism.

I asked Bishop Gracida personally to comment on the article by Gloria.TV. Here are his exact words:

I consider it a hit piece. Anything you can publish which will assert the fact that you and I are in agreement with regard to the invalidity of Pope Benedict ‘resignation” and that I am certainly not a sedevancantist.

Understand “I give permission to”, before “Anything”.

Evidently the author of the article at Gloria.TV cannot even read, because the article at Bishop Gracida’s blog, entitled, “Jorge Bergoglio: 3 things he is not” — which En.News did not even link to, was the reprint of a letter recounting the argument of Sedevacantists, by 3rd  parties and was not written by Bishop Gracida, but bore the name and email address of Jason Fabaz, an Insurance Agent at St. Mary’s Kansas, as was evident from the fact that his email was printed clearly printed twice at the top of the letter (as is commonly had in email formatting), as the source and recipient of the letter. (You can read the letter at archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/20210215044750/https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/)).

Bishop Gracida, to those who know of his blog, reprints articles by others, he rarely writes his own. In the style of the great Scholastics, Saint Thomas Aquinas and St. Bonaventure of Bagnoregio, he does not omit to put in discussion matters with which he does not agree. All who know of his blog, know this.

Because of his poor eyesight, he also often posts on his blog articles he wants to keep or archive, since in his browser he can expand the type face to make the letters visible. Readers of his blog know of this, if they are attentive and constant.

The letter in question is not even a complete argument, but the summation of points of Church teaching which might be used to sustain the entitled thesis. The argumentation is not even in the style of Bishop Gracida, but is clearly taken from other sources of those schooled in Sedevacantism.

If as En.News at Gloria.TV supposes, any republication of error is conscious assent or support of error, then we would have to class St. Thomas Aquinas as a Muslim on account of his refutation of the religion of Muhammad, if he had ever happened to take notes from the Koran and share them in correspondence.

For that reason, I judge it unfounded even to claim that Mr. Fabaz is a sedevacantist from the mere fact that the contents of the article were shared in correspondence by him.

But the real reason Gloria.TV attacks Bishop Gracida is that he is the only Bishop in the Church who has unflinchingly sustained for 8 years that the renunciation of Pope Benedict XVI was doubtful, whereas Gloria.TV sustains the opposition position, seeing that the Ordinary of the priest who founded Gloria.TV himself holds that Bergoglio is the Pope.

Many users at Gloria.TV hold the unsustainable position rebutted by all Catholics and sedevacantists, that a pertinacious heretic can hold an office in the Church. Indeed, the Code of Canon Law of 1983, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, in Canon 1364 in fact teaches that heretics are excommunicated ipso facto . But Catholics differ from Sedevacantists, in two things: our founder was not a pedophile, and we do not hold that private individuals can arrogate to themselves the right of emitting juridical judgements in the Church. Indeed, in the Catholic Church, heretics are publicly declared outside of the Church after reproof, and only when ordinary or extraordinary authority intervenes, that is by their ordinary bishop, or by the Pope, or by local or general councils. — However, this does not mean that in grave matters, that private individuals in public can not denounce others as heretics, for heresy. Such charges should be well founded to avoid the sins of calumny and defamation and the civil and canonical crime of damaging the reputation of another. — But obviously, such private denunciations do not make someone outside of the Church in a juridical sense. Only Bishops, Pope and councils can do that.

Holding that Benedict XVI is the one true valid pope, is not sedevacantism nor does it lead to sedevantist positions. Sedevacantists hold that there is no valid pope.

Rather those who hold that the renunciation of Benedict is valid and that Bergoglio was validly or not validly elected are the ones who are arriving at sedevacantist positions, because they hold that Bergoglio on account of his public manifest heresies has lost his office.

FromRome.Info has reached out to Mr. Fabaz for comment, and if he desires, will add his comments in an update to this article later today.

Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 18, 2021, 04:33:31 AM
Except Bishop Gravida responded to comments below that blog piece that made it clear he agreed with its contents.  When one follows the "archive.org" link provided by Bugnolo one can see that.  No, there is more to this story.  

abyssum says:
February 14, 2021 at 8:01 pm
“SEEK AND YOU WILL FIND”

CR says:
February 14, 2021 at 10:58 am
Your Excellency,

What do you advise, then, to those who have known the Church and Her sacraments only through priests ordained in the New Rite and bishops consecrated according to the New Rite of episcopal consecration?

Where do they go from here?

C.

abyssum says:
February 13, 2021 at 2:53 pm
NO, HE WAS NOT!

Frederick Dempsey says:
February 13, 2021 at 2:30 pm
Was Bishop Gracida consecrated under Paul VI form?

Sent from my iPhone

>

Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 18, 2021, 04:40:53 AM
No worries, I saved a bunch of screen shots and will post them soon. I still have the webpage in my history, but I don’t know how to save it. Any help?
It was also linked within Bugnolo's response (post above):
https://web.archive.org/web/20210215044750/https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/
Not sure if this will stay here either though.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 05:55:14 AM
I admit it is surprising. When I first read it, I thought the Bishop had indeed gone off to become sede myself. But now even Gloria TV has published a denial from the Bishop. I post it below. Readers can take it for what you will:

From: https://www.gloria.tv/post/DAyMNXRpqBYu4Lhu99TdZAw3B

Bishop Gracida Is NOT A Sedevacantist

(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/ss1VZbCRYisL1dbLuRSAbHyJU/lyeupzrvybwt7ia838e72ol62gqfit5dkv0jkq1.webp?size=512x289&format=webp)

The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, deleted a January 13 post he published on his blog Abyssum.org after a Gloria.tv report (https://www.gloria.tv/post/SVTwgcTuLQbk6LFi7BSXcBHNK).

The post claimed that “it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes.” And, “The Novus Ordo Rite of Consecration of Bishops is invalid since 1968.”

Gracida told (https://www.gloria.tv/post/N248Uw9fE3r341KUnbfntUuwB) Alexis Bugnolo that the article did not express his opinion but was an email he received and published.

Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”

#newsBzcaejtftk (https://www.gloria.tv/hashtag/newsBzcaejtftk)


(https://image-processing.gloria.tv/RLhEYE1RNTHG3CPrHuZx9ECWT/23ljjgxmvmq3m1bed9rgnv3fz39go36qtg71tno.webp?size=768x534&format=webp)


Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mr G on February 18, 2021, 07:05:04 AM
Yes. At the top of the article it says: "To: Jason Fabaz <fabazjas@hotmail.com>"
When Jason sends e-mail to those on his list (I am also on  his list) he send them "from" Jason "to" Jason, as he BCC (Blind Carbon Copies) everyone on his list.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2021, 08:07:45 AM

The post claimed that “it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes.” And, “The Novus Ordo Rite of Consecration of Bishops is invalid since 1968.”

(https://i.gifer.com/3iS8.gif)
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2021, 08:09:50 AM
Bishop Gracida Is NOT A Sedevacantist

Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”

So he remains a Bennyvacantist.  Is that better than Sedevacantism, Xavier?

There's a reason he made the post, and he was probably pressured to pull it down.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2021, 08:11:21 AM
Except Bishop Gravida responded to comments below that blog piece that made it clear he agreed with its contents.

Yes, I'm sure he agreed with it, but then backtracked under pressure.

He's on record (video) condemning Bergoglio as a heretic.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2021, 08:14:25 AM
There are lots of conciliar faithful, clergy, etc. who seem to be jumping straight into Sedevacantism -- basically from one extreme to the other.

Then again, that is to be expected. After all, they are NEWBIES to the fight -- and no solution to the Crisis is so simple, so cut-and-dried, so easy for anyone (of any IQ) to understand as the Sedevacantist option.

Nah, 90% of sedevacantists started out as R&R and then moved to sedevacantism when they matured in their understanding of Traditional Catholic ecclesiology.

Only reason NO are jumping straight to sedevacantism THESE DAYS is because Berogoglio is such an obvious over-the-top heretic (which Fr. Chazal admits).  JP2 and B16 were much more subtle and at least projected the appearance of being conservative and orthodox, while Bergoglio doesn't even try, chuckling about probably being a heretic.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 09:04:51 AM
So he remains a Bennyvacantist.  Is that better than Sedevacantism, Xavier?
I think it is excusable "on the way up" but probably bad "on the way down".  :laugh1:

If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.

Anyway, I don't know for sure what's happening here. Until some clarification comes, we can only speculate. My view is the Bishop still probably considers "full-on-sedevacantism" to be a bit extreme.

H.E. appears to be toying with less extreme possibilities at the moment. That could be why the Bishop distanced himself from it. Who knows? There could also be some pressure. Many possibilities.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 18, 2021, 09:32:00 AM

Quote
The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida

Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Your Friend Colin on February 18, 2021, 09:35:39 AM
If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.
So, Xavier, what is your idea of being fully back to the “Church”?

Does one need to be in full communion with Pachamama?
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 54rosary on February 18, 2021, 10:01:53 AM
Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!

The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, deleted a January 13 post he published on his blog Abyssum.org after a Gloria.tv report (https://www.gloria.tv/post/SVTwgcTuLQbk6LFi7BSXcBHNK).
Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”
It needs to be understood that when one '' regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid''
then one is a non resignationist.

This is a mistake that is often made by name calling ''Recognize and Resist'' novelty specialists
and other adherents to other ideas
who are amusing [and I mean this in sincerity] name calling specialists.

I pray that the hoped for and promised CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA and the hoped for and promised
TRIUMPH OF THE IMMACULATE HEART will be granted soon in order that all the confusion will be
rendered a thing of the past,  and that we will all once more be undivided
CATHOLICS.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 10:24:30 AM
So, Xavier, what is your idea of being fully back to the “Church”?

Does one need to be in full communion with Pachamama?
Hi Colin. To me it is simple. As Fr. Hunter says, "if the Bishops agree in recognizing a certain man as Pope, they are certainly right, for otherwise the Body of the Bishops would be separated from their Head, and the divine Constitution of the Church would be ruined". All the Bishops cannot fall into schism. But they would fall into schism if they all followed a false Pope. Hence, someone recognized as Pope by all of them is the Pope, and we must be in communion with him - does not mean agreeing with his personal sins - to be with them.

St. Peter made a terrible mistake - out of weakness, say the Doctors - of denying Christ on the night of His Passion. The Popes are weak now in this time of the Church's Passion. No Catholic needs to agree with the Pachamama abomination. I've read there was one Pope Saint - I think Marcellinus - who sacrificed to idols under pressure then regretted doing so later on. Popes can commit personal sins, and no one is obliged to follow them in doing it. God will sort it out in due time. If sedes want to show SVism is true, they should show at least 1% of Bishops with Ordinary Jurisdiction rejecting the Pope. There are some 5000 Bishops in the Catholic Church. Can sedes show 50 who reject the Pope?

Bp. Gracida may be 1 of them, but it's not clear yet if he is. It's also far from certain H.E. would support taking juridical election of any kind, like calling a Council to examine if Pope Francis is a public and formal heretic, and potentially electing a new Pope after that etc.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2021, 11:12:27 AM
I think it is excusable "on the way up" but probably bad "on the way down".  :laugh1:

If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.

Nice try, but your entire argument is from the "Universal Acceptance" principle.  So in being a Bennyvacantist (the term stuck despite my suggestion of "BennypleneBergogliovacantist"), he's rejecting the notion of "Universal Acceptance" being dogmatic.  So his difference with sedevacantism is one of application rather than principle.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
Universal Acceptance is not my only argument, my personal argument is more from St. Peter's Perpetual Successors.

I hold that the Church will lose Formal Apostolicity and Ordinary Jurisdiction if She is without Papal Successors forever.

Robert Siscoe was apparently a Benevacantist/Beneplenist, however we want to call it, and changed because of UA.

"The doctrine of the peaceful and universal acceptance, when properly understood, proves beyond any possible doubt that Francis’s election was valid and refutes each and every objection that has been raised against it. Those who understand this “sound doctrine” (2 Tim. 4:3), and accept it, will know who the true pope is, while those who “turn their hearing away from the truth” by rejecting it will continue to be “tossed to and fro and carried about” by the latest conspiracy theory or fallacious argument.

Before continuing, I should note that there was a time when I also had doubts, or at least questions, about the legitimacy of the Francis pontificate and was one of the first to raise the questions about Benedict’s abdication that are being widely discussed today.[1] (https://onepeterfive.com/dogmatic-fact-francis-pope/#_ftn1) But after studying the matter further, there is no doubt whatsoever that Benedict’s abdication was ratified by Christ, Who stripped him of the papal office and conferred it upon Francis on the day of his election."

From: https://onepeterfive.com/dogmatic-fact-francis-pope/
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: GregoryPiusLeoSarto on February 18, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
What Does the Magisterium Teach?
Humility is the path both to being a Catholic & to saving our soul.
 
1.)   Heretics pick & choose which Magisterial teachings they accept & which they reject.
2.)   Heretics judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they think they know better than the Magisterium.
3.)   Heretics make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
 
1.)   Catholics do NOT pick & choose which Magisterial teachings to accept & which to reject, they MUST simply accept them all.
2.)   Catholics do NOT judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they do NOT think they know better than the Magisterium.
3.)   Catholics do NOT make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
 
Can you rebut the following by using infallible quotes from the Magisterium?  If not, then shouldn't we believe exactly what Vatican I, Humani Generis and Mortalium Animos teach?   
 
1.)   You, nor I, nor the SSPX, nor the Resistance, nor Archbishop Lefebvre are infallible. 
2.)   The Catholic Church is infallible. 
3.)   The “…See of St. Peter ALWAYS remains unblemished by any error.” (Vatican I) It was given a “gift of truth and NEVER failing faith.” 
4.)   The Solemn Magisterium is infallible. (Vatican I)
5.)   The Ordinary Magisterium is infallible. (Humani Generis)
6.)   Encyclicals and Ecuмenical Councils are infallible.
7.)   “…the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine.” (Mystici Corporis Christi) 
8.)   Vatican II is heretical and countless subsequent Encyclicals of the V2 popes are heretical, (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html)), therefore it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes, because Vatican I infallibly teaches: 
 
The First Vatican Council 
Dogmatic Constitution of Vatican I,Pastor Aeternus   
Pope Pius IX, July 18, 1870 A.D.   
 
“Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.   
 
“This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this see so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine.”   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
The First Vatican Council   
Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Dei Filius   
Pope Pius IX, 24 April 1870 A.D.   
 
“Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.”  
 
Humani Generis    
On Modern Errors    
Pope Pius XII – August 12, 1950    
 
Paragraph 20: “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority (magisterio ordinario), of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)  
 
Notice above in Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII infallibly teaches that   
 
1.)   Encyclical Letters are the Ordinary Magisterium, "of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)   
2.)   So if we admit that Christ is infallible  
3.)   Then we must admit that Encyclicals and the Ordinary Magisterium are infallible. 
 
Mortalium Animos, Encyclical by Pope Pius XI, 1928 
 
“The Magisterium of the Church (“Ecclesia Magisterium”) which in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that revealed doctrines might remain intact forever, and that they might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men, … is daily exercised [cotidie exerceturthrough the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops who are in communion with him.” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928) 
 
Note Well: The Teaching Authority (Magisterium) of the Church is exercised every day…not just in extraordinary circuмstances, so there is no way to maintain that Vatican II and 62 years worth of Encyclicals and Catechisms from 1958-2020 weren’t the Magisterium of the Church…the Church’s Magisterium is incapable of teaching heresies…thus it is proof positive that John XXIII – Francis are not now/have never been, true Popes. 
 
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943: 
 
22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-17-357) As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-18-357) And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican19 (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12mysti.htm#easy-footnote-bottom-19-357) It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. 
 
23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church,as does schism or heresy or apostasy. 
 
31. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she might be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces.
 
 
If Bergoglio is the Pope, then Vatican II is the Magisterium!
 
In 2020, the church in Italy marked the 50th anniversary of the “renewal of catechesis” following the Second Vatican Council.
 
“The catechesis inspired by the Council,” said Pope Francis, “is continually listening to the heart of the man, always with an attentive ear, always seeking to renew itself.”
 
Pope Francis insisted: “This is the Magisterium. The Council is the Magisterium of the Church. Either you are with the Church and therefore you follow the Council, and if you don't follow the Council or you interpret it in your own away, as you desire, you do not stand with the Church.” He asked that there be "no concessions to those who seek to present a catechesis that does not agree with the Magisterium of the Church.”
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-01/pope-francis-catechesis-is-the-echo-of-the-word-of-god.html (https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-01/pope-francis-catechesis-is-the-echo-of-the-word-of-god.html)
 
 
If Paul VI was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium
 
"Each and all these items which are set forth in this Dogmatic Constitution have met with the approval of the Council Fathers. And We by the apostolic power given Us by Christ together with the Venerable Fathers in the Holy Spirit, approve, decree and establish it and command that what has thus been decided in the Council be promulgated for the glory of God.  (The last paragraph of every Vatican II Docuмent, including the “Dogmatic Constitutions” of Vatican II)
 
Paul VI in a general audience of 12th January 1966 (http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html)   
 
“Given the pastoral character of the Council, it avoided pronouncing in an extraordinary way dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility; but it has nevertheless furnished its teachings with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium, which ordinary and so obviously authentic magisterium must be received docilely and sincerely by all the faithful, according to the mind of the Council concerning the nature and purposes of the individual docuмents.  
https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html (https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1966/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112.html)  
 
If John Paul II was a true Pope, then this is the Magisterium
 
Fidei Depositum
Apostolic Constitution, John Paul II, Oct. 11, 1992
 ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
 PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN EcuмENICAL COUNCIL  
  
To my Venerable Brothers the Cardinals, 
 to the Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, 
 Deacons and all the People of God 
 
  
JOHN PAUL II, BISHOP
 SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD
 FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY
  
THE DOCTRINAL VALUE OF THE TEXT  
 
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of Catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion and a sure norm for teaching the faith.”
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: roscoe on February 18, 2021, 01:06:12 PM
https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/ (https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/)
Link not found... :confused:
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Mr G on February 18, 2021, 01:55:36 PM
Link not found... :confused:
I suspect that if you ask the newbie "GregoryPiusLeoSarto", that he will have it.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Yeti on February 18, 2021, 03:03:26 PM
Link not found... :confused:
Yes, this is discussed on page 2 of this thread.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 18, 2021, 03:59:22 PM
Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!
Unfortunately, the courageous thing to do would have been to ignore Bugnolo and leave the pro-sedevacantism blog entry up (which he clearly agreed with).  But courageous NO bishops are sorely lacking, so I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Prayerful on February 18, 2021, 05:44:19 PM
This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: 2Vermont on February 18, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.
Edited...well that's because you checked the wrong date.  It was Feb 13th not January. 

The claim was not spurious.
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on February 18, 2021, 08:20:27 PM
https://www.gloria.tv/post/DAyMNXRpqBYu4Lhu99TdZAw3B

https://fromrome.info/2021/02/18/msgr-gracida-calls-gloria-tv-accusation-of-sedevacantism-a-hit-piece/
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 18, 2021, 08:20:58 PM
This was never true. Bp Gracida is a benevacantist. I looked through all the posts for 13th Jan, before any deletions were made. It's a spurious claim. I think I replied to that GTV post to say it was spurious.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tZtsnoRS3y0J:https://abyssum.org/author/abyssum/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d



(https://i.ibb.co/kMf8VRs/Screenshot-2021-02-18-abyssum.png)
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: trad123 on February 18, 2021, 08:23:43 PM
The article is preserved, here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210215044750/https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 18, 2021, 09:54:18 PM
Pope Bl. Pius IX taught in Etsi Multa that saying an Ecuмenical Council taught heresy is itself heretical, and denies Church Indefectibility: "Incredibly, they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred." His Holiness said the Old Catholics, in their doctrine, novelty and number overturn all the marks and properties of religion: "23. These unhappy men undermine the foundations of religion, overturn all its marks and properties, and invent so many foul errors, or rather, draw forth from the ancient store of heretics and gather them together and publish them. Yet they do not blush to call themselves Catholics and Old Catholics, while in their doctrine, novelty, and number they show themselves in no way to be either old or Catholic". The Pope also taught the Church was Universal and would be in all nations until the end of the world: "Tell me on account of those who say: it was and is no longer; on account of those who say: the scriptures have been fulfilled, all nations have believed, but the Church has apostatized and perished from all nations. And He announced and the voice was not vain. What did He announce? ‘Behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world.’ Moved by your voices and your false opinions, it asked of God that He announce to it the length of its days and it found that God said ‘Behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world.’ Here you will say: He spoke about us; we are as we will be until the end of the world. Christ Himself is asked; He says ‘and this gospel will be preached in the whole world, in testimony to all nations, and then will come the end.’ Therefore the Church will be among all nations until the end of the world." From: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9etsimu.htm

A Council of Bishops cannot err in recognizing the Head of the Episcopate. That is Universal Acceptance. Yet sedes hold they erred.

Also, the Ordinary Magisterium is Authoritative, but not Infallible. See the Wiki article on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsequium_religiosum

It cites Donum Veritatis, from the post-V2 Magisterium, that itself acknowledges this: "
Withholding assent[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Obsequium_religiosum&action=edit&section=2)]
Donum Veritatis also allows that even if, "not habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments...some Magisterial docuмents might not be free from all deficiencies," and withholding assent is allowed for a theologian, "who might have serious difficulties, for reasons which appear to him wellfounded, in accepting a non-irreformable magisterial teaching." In such "even if the doctrine of the faith is not in question, the theologian will not present his own opinions or divergent hypotheses as though they were non-arguable conclusions," and is to "refrain from giving untimely public expression to them," and "avoid turning to the mass media," but with a humble and teachable spirit it is his duty "to make known to the Magisterial authorities the problems raised by the teaching in itself, in the arguments proposed to justify it, or even in the manner in which it is presented," with "an intense and patient reflection on his part and a readiness, if need be, to revise his own opinions and examine the objections which his colleagues might offer him", prayerfully trusting "that if the truth really is at stake, it will ultimately prevail."

The same is taught by pre-Vatican II Theologians. Xavier Da Silveira mentions some of them in his article, "Can the Pope go bad?"
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: GregoryPiusLeoSarto on February 20, 2021, 12:05:16 AM
Watch this on Peaceful Universal Acceptance, what it means and how we certainly have not had it for Bergoglio: https://youtu.be/RLJerBPp3uo?t=640 (https://youtu.be/RLJerBPp3uo?t=640)
Title: Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on February 21, 2021, 10:55:58 AM
That is not written by the Bishop, it is post form Jason Fabaz, apparently Jason has the Bishop on his list or someone forwarded it to the Bishop. However, the fact the Bishop put it on his site, shows that he agrees.
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