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Author Topic: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism  (Read 4919 times)

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Offline Nishant Xavier

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Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 02:56:25 AM »
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  • Update: https://fromrome.info/2021/02/18/msgr-gracida-calls-gloria-tv-accusation-of-sedevacantism-a-hit-piece/



    NEWS
    MSGR. GRACIDA CALLS GLORIA.TV ACCUSATION OF SEDEVACANTISM A “HIT PIECE”
    FEBRUARY 18, 2021 EDITOR LEAVE A COMMENT
    by Br. Alexis Bugnolo

    Yesterday, the En.NEWS feed of Gloria.TV published an article entitled “Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism”, causing an international sensation among Catholics.

    The article opened with a statement of fact kind of assertion:

    Retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, believes that Francis is “not a bishop, not a Catholic and not a Pope” (Abyssum.org, January 13).

    Gracida now openly embraces sedevacantism, the theory that Pius XII (+1958) was the last pope implying that after him the Church ended. For Gracida, John XXIII started a “false church,” and he and all his successors were impostors.

    The problem with the article is that its claim could not be more false.

    Bishop Gracida is an ardent and life long opponent of Sedevacantism.

    I asked Bishop Gracida personally to comment on the article by Gloria.TV. Here are his exact words:

    I consider it a hit piece. Anything you can publish which will assert the fact that you and I are in agreement with regard to the invalidity of Pope Benedict ‘resignation” and that I am certainly not a sedevancantist.

    Understand “I give permission to”, before “Anything”.

    Evidently the author of the article at Gloria.TV cannot even read, because the article at Bishop Gracida’s blog, entitled, “Jorge Bergoglio: 3 things he is not” — which En.News did not even link to, was the reprint of a letter recounting the argument of Sedevacantists, by 3rd  parties and was not written by Bishop Gracida, but bore the name and email address of Jason Fabaz, an Insurance Agent at St. Mary’s Kansas, as was evident from the fact that his email was printed clearly printed twice at the top of the letter (as is commonly had in email formatting), as the source and recipient of the letter. (You can read the letter at archive.org).

    Bishop Gracida, to those who know of his blog, reprints articles by others, he rarely writes his own. In the style of the great Scholastics, Saint Thomas Aquinas and St. Bonaventure of Bagnoregio, he does not omit to put in discussion matters with which he does not agree. All who know of his blog, know this.

    Because of his poor eyesight, he also often posts on his blog articles he wants to keep or archive, since in his browser he can expand the type face to make the letters visible. Readers of his blog know of this, if they are attentive and constant.

    The letter in question is not even a complete argument, but the summation of points of Church teaching which might be used to sustain the entitled thesis. The argumentation is not even in the style of Bishop Gracida, but is clearly taken from other sources of those schooled in Sedevacantism.

    If as En.News at Gloria.TV supposes, any republication of error is conscious assent or support of error, then we would have to class St. Thomas Aquinas as a Muslim on account of his refutation of the religion of Muhammad, if he had ever happened to take notes from the Koran and share them in correspondence.

    For that reason, I judge it unfounded even to claim that Mr. Fabaz is a sedevacantist from the mere fact that the contents of the article were shared in correspondence by him.

    But the real reason Gloria.TV attacks Bishop Gracida is that he is the only Bishop in the Church who has unflinchingly sustained for 8 years that the renunciation of Pope Benedict XVI was doubtful, whereas Gloria.TV sustains the opposition position, seeing that the Ordinary of the priest who founded Gloria.TV himself holds that Bergoglio is the Pope.

    Many users at Gloria.TV hold the unsustainable position rebutted by all Catholics and sedevacantists, that a pertinacious heretic can hold an office in the Church. Indeed, the Code of Canon Law of 1983, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, in Canon 1364 in fact teaches that heretics are excommunicated ipso facto . But Catholics differ from Sedevacantists, in two things: our founder was not a pedophile, and we do not hold that private individuals can arrogate to themselves the right of emitting juridical judgements in the Church. Indeed, in the Catholic Church, heretics are publicly declared outside of the Church after reproof, and only when ordinary or extraordinary authority intervenes, that is by their ordinary bishop, or by the Pope, or by local or general councils. — However, this does not mean that in grave matters, that private individuals in public can not denounce others as heretics, for heresy. Such charges should be well founded to avoid the sins of calumny and defamation and the civil and canonical crime of damaging the reputation of another. — But obviously, such private denunciations do not make someone outside of the Church in a juridical sense. Only Bishops, Pope and councils can do that.

    Holding that Benedict XVI is the one true valid pope, is not sedevacantism nor does it lead to sedevantist positions. Sedevacantists hold that there is no valid pope.

    Rather those who hold that the renunciation of Benedict is valid and that Bergoglio was validly or not validly elected are the ones who are arriving at sedevacantist positions, because they hold that Bergoglio on account of his public manifest heresies has lost his office.

    FromRome.Info has reached out to Mr. Fabaz for comment, and if he desires, will add his comments in an update to this article later today.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #31 on: February 18, 2021, 04:33:31 AM »
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  • Except Bishop Gravida responded to comments below that blog piece that made it clear he agreed with its contents.  When one follows the "archive.org" link provided by Bugnolo one can see that.  No, there is more to this story.  

    abyssum says:
    February 14, 2021 at 8:01 pm
    “SEEK AND YOU WILL FIND”

    CR says:
    February 14, 2021 at 10:58 am
    Your Excellency,

    What do you advise, then, to those who have known the Church and Her sacraments only through priests ordained in the New Rite and bishops consecrated according to the New Rite of episcopal consecration?

    Where do they go from here?

    C.

    abyssum says:
    February 13, 2021 at 2:53 pm
    NO, HE WAS NOT!

    Frederick Dempsey says:
    February 13, 2021 at 2:30 pm
    Was Bishop Gracida consecrated under Paul VI form?

    Sent from my iPhone

    >



    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #32 on: February 18, 2021, 04:40:53 AM »
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  • No worries, I saved a bunch of screen shots and will post them soon. I still have the webpage in my history, but I don’t know how to save it. Any help?
    It was also linked within Bugnolo's response (post above):
    https://web.archive.org/web/20210215044750/https://abyssum.org/2021/02/13/jorge-bergolio-three-things-he-is-not/
    Not sure if this will stay here either though.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #33 on: February 18, 2021, 05:55:14 AM »
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  • I admit it is surprising. When I first read it, I thought the Bishop had indeed gone off to become sede myself. But now even Gloria TV has published a denial from the Bishop. I post it below. Readers can take it for what you will:

    From: https://www.gloria.tv/post/DAyMNXRpqBYu4Lhu99TdZAw3B

    Bishop Gracida Is NOT A Sedevacantist



    The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, deleted a January 13 post he published on his blog Abyssum.org after a Gloria.tv report.

    The post claimed that “it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes.” And, “The Novus Ordo Rite of Consecration of Bishops is invalid since 1968.”

    Gracida told Alexis Bugnolo that the article did not express his opinion but was an email he received and published.

    Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”

    #newsBzcaejtftk






    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #34 on: February 18, 2021, 07:05:04 AM »
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  • Yes. At the top of the article it says: "To: Jason Fabaz <fabazjas@hotmail.com>"
    When Jason sends e-mail to those on his list (I am also on  his list) he send them "from" Jason "to" Jason, as he BCC (Blind Carbon Copies) everyone on his list.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #35 on: February 18, 2021, 08:07:45 AM »
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  • The post claimed that “it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes.” And, “The Novus Ordo Rite of Consecration of Bishops is invalid since 1968.”



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #36 on: February 18, 2021, 08:09:50 AM »
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  • Bishop Gracida Is NOT A Sedevacantist

    Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”

    So he remains a Bennyvacantist.  Is that better than Sedevacantism, Xavier?

    There's a reason he made the post, and he was probably pressured to pull it down.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #37 on: February 18, 2021, 08:11:21 AM »
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  • Except Bishop Gravida responded to comments below that blog piece that made it clear he agreed with its contents.

    Yes, I'm sure he agreed with it, but then backtracked under pressure.

    He's on record (video) condemning Bergoglio as a heretic.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #38 on: February 18, 2021, 08:14:25 AM »
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  • There are lots of conciliar faithful, clergy, etc. who seem to be jumping straight into Sedevacantism -- basically from one extreme to the other.

    Then again, that is to be expected. After all, they are NEWBIES to the fight -- and no solution to the Crisis is so simple, so cut-and-dried, so easy for anyone (of any IQ) to understand as the Sedevacantist option.

    Nah, 90% of sedevacantists started out as R&R and then moved to sedevacantism when they matured in their understanding of Traditional Catholic ecclesiology.

    Only reason NO are jumping straight to sedevacantism THESE DAYS is because Berogoglio is such an obvious over-the-top heretic (which Fr. Chazal admits).  JP2 and B16 were much more subtle and at least projected the appearance of being conservative and orthodox, while Bergoglio doesn't even try, chuckling about probably being a heretic.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #39 on: February 18, 2021, 09:04:51 AM »
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  • So he remains a Bennyvacantist.  Is that better than Sedevacantism, Xavier?
    I think it is excusable "on the way up" but probably bad "on the way down".  :laugh1:

    If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.

    Anyway, I don't know for sure what's happening here. Until some clarification comes, we can only speculate. My view is the Bishop still probably considers "full-on-sedevacantism" to be a bit extreme.

    H.E. appears to be toying with less extreme possibilities at the moment. That could be why the Bishop distanced himself from it. Who knows? There could also be some pressure. Many possibilities.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #40 on: February 18, 2021, 09:32:00 AM »
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  • Quote
    The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida

    Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!


    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #41 on: February 18, 2021, 09:35:39 AM »
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  • If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.
    So, Xavier, what is your idea of being fully back to the “Church”?

    Does one need to be in full communion with Pachamama?

    Offline 54rosary

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #42 on: February 18, 2021, 10:01:53 AM »
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  • Hah! When they think he’s a sedevacantist, they deride him. But a resignationist? Courageous!

    The courageous retired Corpus Christi Bishop René Gracida, 97, Texas, deleted a January 13 post he published on his blog Abyssum.org after a Gloria.tv report.
    Gracida called Gloria.tv’s report about the article a “hit piece” and explains that he regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid, however, he stresses that he is “certainly not a sedevacantist.”
    It needs to be understood that when one '' regards Benedict XVI’s resignation as invalid''
    then one is a non resignationist.

    This is a mistake that is often made by name calling ''Recognize and Resist'' novelty specialists
    and other adherents to other ideas
    who are amusing [and I mean this in sincerity] name calling specialists.

    I pray that the hoped for and promised CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA and the hoped for and promised
    TRIUMPH OF THE IMMACULATE HEART will be granted soon in order that all the confusion will be
    rendered a thing of the past,  and that we will all once more be undivided
    CATHOLICS.

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #43 on: February 18, 2021, 10:24:30 AM »
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  • So, Xavier, what is your idea of being fully back to the “Church”?

    Does one need to be in full communion with Pachamama?
    Hi Colin. To me it is simple. As Fr. Hunter says, "if the Bishops agree in recognizing a certain man as Pope, they are certainly right, for otherwise the Body of the Bishops would be separated from their Head, and the divine Constitution of the Church would be ruined". All the Bishops cannot fall into schism. But they would fall into schism if they all followed a false Pope. Hence, someone recognized as Pope by all of them is the Pope, and we must be in communion with him - does not mean agreeing with his personal sins - to be with them.

    St. Peter made a terrible mistake - out of weakness, say the Doctors - of denying Christ on the night of His Passion. The Popes are weak now in this time of the Church's Passion. No Catholic needs to agree with the Pachamama abomination. I've read there was one Pope Saint - I think Marcellinus - who sacrificed to idols under pressure then regretted doing so later on. Popes can commit personal sins, and no one is obliged to follow them in doing it. God will sort it out in due time. If sedes want to show SVism is true, they should show at least 1% of Bishops with Ordinary Jurisdiction rejecting the Pope. There are some 5000 Bishops in the Catholic Church. Can sedes show 50 who reject the Pope?

    Bp. Gracida may be 1 of them, but it's not clear yet if he is. It's also far from certain H.E. would support taking juridical election of any kind, like calling a Council to examine if Pope Francis is a public and formal heretic, and potentially electing a new Pope after that etc.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Retired Bishop Openly Supports Sedevacantism
    « Reply #44 on: February 18, 2021, 11:12:27 AM »
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  • I think it is excusable "on the way up" but probably bad "on the way down".  :laugh1:

    If a sede becomes a "Bennyvacantist" (maybe we should say "Beneplenist"?), I think he's closer to coming back fully to the Church. If a Bene becomes a sede, he's moving farther away, objectively speaking.

    Nice try, but your entire argument is from the "Universal Acceptance" principle.  So in being a Bennyvacantist (the term stuck despite my suggestion of "BennypleneBergogliovacantist"), he's rejecting the notion of "Universal Acceptance" being dogmatic.  So his difference with sedevacantism is one of application rather than principle.