Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, renews his argument against changes in Church teaching on marriage, in a new book-length interview.

In The Hope of the Family, Cardinal Müller argues that the greatest problem facing the Church is not the relatively small number of divorced and remarried couples who wish to receive Communion, but the very large number of couples who do not understand the Christian meaning of sacramental marriage.

The German cardinal calls for a renewed emphasis on instruction in the Church’s teachings on marriage and family life. While advocating pastoral solicitude for divorced Catholics, he argues forcefully against the suggestion—championed by another German prelate, Cardinal Walter Kasper—that the Church might allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive the Eucharist.

In his preface to The Hope of the Family, another leading prelate, Cardinal Fernando Sebastian Aguilar, the retired Archbishop of Pamplona, Spain, argues:


A simple 'adaptation' of the reality of marriage to the expectations of the world does not bear any fruit, but rather turns out to be counterproductive: the Church cannot respond to the challenges of the modern world with a pragmatic adaptation. In opposing an easy pragmatic adaptation, we are called to choose the prophetic audacity of martyrdom.
The Hope of the Family is the result of a lengthy conversation between Cardinal Müller and a Spanish journalist, Carlos Granados. It was published simultaneously on July 29 in Spain, Italy, and the US.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22154

Quote from: Cera

comments in caps
Complete docuмent, instrumentum-laboris-familia is here:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/docuмents/rc_synod_doc_20140626_instrumentum-laboris-familia_en.htm

b) Concerning Unions of Persons of the Same Sex

Civil Recognition

110. On unions of persons of the same sex,
...
 Should a reasonable doubt exist in the capability of persons in a same sex union to instruct the child in the Christian faith,(????????!!!!!!!!!) proper support is to be secured in the same manner as for any other couple (THAT IS, ANY OTHERS WHO FLAUNT THEIR DISREGARD FOR THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH) seeking the baptism of their children. In this regard, other people in their family and social surroundings could also provide assistance. In these cases, the pastor is carefully to oversee the preparation for the possible baptism of the child, with particular attention given to the choice of the godfather and godmother.

Are the "comments in caps" yours, Cera, or someone else's?


.

my comments

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Cera

Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.

But you're talking about the TRUTH.  Sodomites are cursed by God.  This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).  

It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate.  They are inherently sterile.  And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.  

God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility.  Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.  

Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.

.

So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?

Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?

Yes, babies who die unbaptized go to Limbo, which is called hell.

And yes, we respond the same way to all non-Catholic children. Unless death is imminent, the Church never permits the baptism of infants unless they are going to be raised in the faith.

Where does the athesists synod take place?  

Quote from: Cera

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Cera

Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.

But you're talking about the TRUTH.  Sodomites are cursed by God.  This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).  

It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate.  They are inherently sterile.  And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.  

God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility.  Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.  

Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.

.

So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?

Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?

Duh. Did you read anything?
children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.

Oh I read.  Did you?

To be more specific, out of Charity, of course the Church's answer is the same to children of heterosɛҳuąƖs living in sin. They cannot be baptized. To do so would be cruel as baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul.

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

I don't expect any replies.  CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.  

They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.


.

So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?

For me, I am actually torn on this.  It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.

To deny  children of sodomite parents baptism in which 2Vermont says
he feels is wrong.
I sincerely disagree, it is not wrong to deny these children baptism
because if they are baptized and the parents are unrepentant
sinners. It would give the green light that the church is changing
its teachings.
This is how the man on the street will see it. Inviting more serious
sins committed by people whom were instructed with true
traditional Catholic teachings, would never committed the sins
because of all the liberalism in the church.

    Church Leaders Supporting Same-Gender Couples

 
LGBT Advocates Will Explain ‘Ways of Love’ to Synod of Bishops

As you probably already know, in October this year, the Vatican will be hosting a world synod of bishops to discuss marriage and family issues.  Just days before that  meeting begins, an international group of Catholic supporters of LGBT people will be meeting in Rome, along with representatives of the Waldensian Church and of the civil society, in order to discuss about how to renew the pastoral care with a view of fully including the LGBT people, and same-gender couples and families.

The conference, entitled “The Ways of Love: International Conference for a Pastoral Care with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and TranssɛҳuąƖ People,” will take place on Friday, October 3, 2014, in Rome.   At the close of the conference, an appeal for appropriate pastoral care for LGBT people will be made to the bishops meeting in the synod.

A keynote speaker at the event will be Bishop Geoffrey Robinson, a retired auxiliary bishop from Australia who is the author of the book, Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church.  Bishop Robinson was a featured speaker at New Ways Ministry’s Seventh National Symposium in 2012, where he called for a total re-vamping of the Catholic Church’s teaching on sɛҳuąƖity.

In addition to Bishop Robinson, the other speakers will be:

     James Alison, Catholic theologian and priest. Originally from the United Kingdom, he residesin Brazil and has worked extensively on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and Catholic faith, in particular on Catholic consciousness and gαy consciousness;
    Antonietta Potente, theologian and Italian Dominican nun based in Bolivia. She will offer a reflection on a new approach of the Gospel to the LGBT people;
    Letizia Tomassone, Waldensian pastor, President of the Commission on Faith and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity of the Baptist, Methodist, and Waldensian Churches in Italy. She will tell about the path that these Churches have undertaken before openly including the LGBT people and couples;
    Joseanne Peregin, President of the Christian Life Community in Malta and mother of a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ man. She will tell about the feelings and the fears that Catholic parents may have when it comes to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ children.

In anticipation of this conference, the website for the meeting has been posting interviews with some of the conference organizers, an international group of people from five continents.   Below is a sampling from some of those interviews, describing the needs of LGBT Catholics and the hopes for the syond.  Clicking on each name will bring you to the page with the entire interview with that person.

Michael Clifton, David et Jonathan, France:

    “When the PACS (Civil Union bill) was introduced in 1999, the Roman Catholic Church’s reaction was quite hysterical, with demonstrators chanting ‘Les pédés au bûcher!’ (‘Burn the fαɢɢօts!’). When last year (2013) the present government introduced a law allowing marriage and adoption for same-sex couples, there were once again enormous demonstrations, sometimes violent.

    “The Church paid for special trains and buses to carry demonstrators to Paris and in churches the faithful were asked to pray for the demonstrators. But officially no members of the hierarchy took part in these demonstrations: some of them just went along before the demonstrations to congratulate and encourage the demonstrators.

    “The archbishops of Paris and Lyon made quite strong public statements, likening ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity to, for example, zoophilia. Since the law has been enacted, the climate has become quieter and rumours are going around that a large number of the bishops regret the excessive language of last year.

    “Even so, the bishop of Bayonne, earlier this year, went to Russia to congratulate Putin on his energetic persecution of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs. On the other hand, two or three bishops have made definite attempts to set up some dialogue with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ groups and there is also some contact with influential theologians.”

Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry, USA

    “I think this synod is a great opportunity for bishops to discuss LGBT people, relationships, and families. It is the first time the bishops are covering the topics of marriage and family in a synod since the question of legal marriages for gαy and lesbian couples has become a reality. Many bishops from around the world have already publicly acknowledged that most Catholics do not accept the moral condemnation of loving, committed lesbian and gαy relationships.

    “If these bishops are honest, I think they will realize that this rejection of the church’s teaching is not because people don’t understand it, but because Catholics of good faith have reflected prayerfully on their experiences of lesbian and gαy people and couples and have witnessed something holy in their lives and commitment.

    “It’s also the first synod under Pope Francis. I think the bishops know that people around the world have responded positively to Francis’ new, welcoming approach to LGBT people. I think they will realize that any negative statements from the synod about lesbian and gαy couples will alienate a great number of Catholics in the pews.”

Gianni Geraci, Progetto Gionata, Italy:

    “Pointing out new ways where the ecclesial communities and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs can meet and discover a new meaning for the announcement of the Gospel is what is needed. The idea is to follow in Abram’s footsteps, who wasn’t defeated by fear, who didn’t stand still in Harran where his father took him, who didn’t want to know in advance where the Lord was taking him, who didn’t ask for reassurance but only God’s promise to keep him under His blessing. (Gen. 12:1, 2).

    “ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs’ experience is deeply connected to Abram’s vocation: just like him, they need to face a horizon they don’t know, go down a road of which the final destination is unknown and the challenge of turning their ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity into sanctity without role models or points of reference. Just as happened to Abram, they will hear their old friends ask: ‘Why are you doing this? Live your life and give up unrealistic ambitions. Don’t walk roads you are not familiar with.

    “But just as Abram did, they will hear God’s promise echo in their hearts: it is absurd to human reasoning (‘I will make you into a great Nation’, the Lord said to him when he was seventy-five and with no children because of his wife’s barreness) and it is demanding (‘Go from your country, your people and your father’s household’). This promise, apart from His blessing (‘I will bless you’), has no warranty (‘Go to the land I will show you’). There is only an undefined destination that the Lord will point out on the way. Yet it is God’s promise.”

The conference is sponsored by the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups and financially supported by the Ministry of Education, Science and Culture of the Netherlands.  It will be held at the Waldensian Faculty of Theology, Rome.

In addition to the three people quoted abover, other conference organizers include:

    Francesco Boschi (REFO, Italy); Michael Brinkschroeder (European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups, Netherlands); Marianne Duddy-Burke (DignityUSA, United States); David Musonda (Dette Resource Foundation, Zambia); Innocenzo Pontillo (Progetto Gionata, Italy); Andrea Rubera (Nuova Proposta, Italy); Diane Xuereb (Drachma LGBT, Malta).

–Bob Shine, New Ways Ministry