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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 27, 2014, 01:52:28 PM
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http://www.cfnews.org/page10/page96/radical_synod.html
Radical Synod Planned for October
Working Docuмent Reveals Revolutionary Aims
By John Vennari
On June 26, the Vatican released its Working Docuмent (Instrumentum Laboris) for the upcoming October Synod on the Family, a ponderous text of over 25,000 words.
It is a thoroughly Conciliar manuscript. There is no mention of any docuмent from the Church’s magisterium prior to Vatican II. Apart from Scriptural citations, all references are from Vatican II and post-Conciliar texts.
The docuмent contains good points, major deficiencies and frightening proposals. The three most radical proposals are:
1) A new “pastoral solution” to allow divorce and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion;
2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions;
3) A recasting of natural law in “new language”, which threatens to undermine our entire ethical foundation of true morality.
Indeed the Synod’s Working Docuмent further displays the triumph of the New Theology over today’s Vatican; the same new theology that wrought havoc at Vatican II and continues its destructive path to this day.
Details, Details, Details
When reading the Synod Working Paper, it is easy to be overwhelmed by the avalanche of details. The docuмent lists countless problems and anomalies presently affecting marriage and family life. It takes on too much – more than can ever be solved by addressing hundreds of particulars within a subjectivist “pastoral” framework.
The true solution calls for general principles rooted in objective truth, the immutable magisterium of the centuries and the Church’s Scholastic tradition.
Since the New Theology, however, is rooted in Modernist flux, subjectivism and is fundamentally anti-Thomist, these true solutions are likely never to be considered. The result of this Synod will thus be more continuous aggiornamento, more experimentation, more “new language”, more confusion, more revolution.
As Dominican Father Anthony Lee observed at the time of Vatican II, “The spirit of revolution dies slowly, especially when it can subtly associate itself with genuine reform.”[1]
The reason for excessive details in the Working Paper is grasped when we look at how the paper was produced.
In November 2013, the Vatican sent a 39-question survey on Church teaching to the bishops of the world, as well as to various associations, communities and individuals.
The 39 questions were spread out under nine headings: 1) “Diffusing of Teaching on the Family in Sacred Scripture and the Church’s Magisterium” (note, the only two ‘magisterium’ docuмents mentioned in this section were Vatican II’s Gaudium et spes, and John Paul II’s Familiaris consortio); 2) “Marriage According to Natural Law; 3) Pastoral Care of the Family in Evangelization”; 4) “Pastoral Care in Certain Difficult Marital Situations; 5) “On the Union of Persons of the Same Sex”, 6) “The Education of Children in Irregular Marriages”; 7) “The Openness of the Married Couple to Life (with a focus on Humanae Vitae)”, 8) “The Relationship Between the Family and the Person”; 9) “Other Challenges and Proposals”.[2]
The responses that ensued were predictable regarding the present state of marriage and family life within the post-Conciliar Church: utter confusion, lack of unified vision, overemphasis on trends of the times, rejection of bedrock doctrine. There were also positive responses from Catholics who have a better grasp of the Faith, but the overall picture is fragmentation, indifference, befuddlement and ignorance concerning the Church’s moral teaching.
The Synod’s Working Paper reflects this cacophony of viewpoints. We read of those who reject Church doctrine on birth control as they see it as an intrusion into their personal lives; they also see the practice of birth control as part of the exercise of “responsible parenthood”. There are indications of widespread cohabitation, divorce and remarriage, many teen mothers, canonical irregularities, the rise of same-sex couples adopting children, the list goes on.
As Ansa News reported of the docuмent: “Many Catholics have ‘difficulties’ in accepting the Church’s doctrine on ‘birth control, divorce… ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, unmarried couples, faithlessness, sex before marriage and in vitro fertilization’.”[3]
Ignorance of Catholic moral teaching is displayed in statements from divorced and remarried Catholics who “wonder why others’ sins can be forgiven and not theirs.”[#92][4] An example from one of the docuмent’s good points: It mentions that for most people, what is considered “legal” will be equated with what is “moral”, and thus the upsurge in laws that undermine marriage and the family confuse and disorient the faithful.[5]
There are troublesome statements, which we will better address later, regarding same-sex unions.
As noted earlier, it is fatal to descend into the myriad of details of the Working Docuмent. Anyone who has the stamina to read the entire text is free to do so, tedious exercise as it is.[6] I usually don’t see eye-to-eye with liberal Father Thomas Reese of the National Catholic Reporter, but I was amused at his observation, “If married life is as boring and joyless as this docuмent, I am glad I am celibate.”[7]
We will move to what I consider the three most radical proposals mentioned earlier, starting with a possible new “pastoral solution” for divorce and remarried Catholics.
Marriage and Pastoral Aggiornamento
The Working Docuмent contains two sections that open the door for a new approach. Speaking of divorced and remarried Catholics, the docuмent states, “…responses and observations from some episcopal conferences emphasize that the Church needs to equip herself with pastoral means which provide the possibility of her more widely exercising mercy, clemency and indulgence towards new unions.” [#93]
Later, with regard to divorced and remarried Catholics who ask to receive Holy Communion, the docuмent says, “In this regard, some recommend considering the practice of some Orthodox Churches, which, in their opinion, opens the way for a second or third marriage of a penitential character.”[#95]
Taken on their own, and weighed against the rest of the docuмent’s verbal tonnage, these statements don’t seem to amount to much. It is scandalous to note, however, that Catholic bishops could actually consider adopting a practice of the Orthodox that defies Catholic doctrine and the clear words of Our Lord.
Nonetheless, the divorce/Communion proposal bears close watching in light of the recent shocking statements at February Consistory when Cardinal Kasper argued the possibility of admitting divorced and remarried to Holy Communion.
An unspeakable scandal followed the next day when Pope Francis publicly praised Kasper for his toxic proposals in front of all the other Cardinals of the Consistory, 85% percent of which, it is reported, sharply disagreed with Kasper’s recklessness.[8] “I found deep theology and serene thoughts in theology,” rhapsodized Francis over Kasper, “This is what I call doing theology while kneeling. Thank you, thank you.”[9]
NCR’s Father Thomas Reese alluded to this episode saying, “The working paper also notes that ‘some recommended considering the practice of some Orthodox churches, which, in their opinion, opens the way for a second or third marriage of a penitential character.’ It does not mention that Pope Francis is among those recommending considerations of the Orthodox practice.”[10]
In the same vein, Cardinal Lorenzo Baldiserri, Secretary of the Synod of Bishops, said in his June 27 Zenit interview, “In regard to the ‘Orthodox model’ it is suggested as a proposal in the Instrumentum Laboris and the Synod Fathers will also discuss this.”
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This is tantamount to opening up discussion about whether someone who dies in unrepented mortal sin may go to heaven. It is de fide from the Council of Trent[11] that a sacramental, consummated marriage is indissoluble. Father Ludwig Ott teaches, “From the sacramental contract of marriage emerges the Bond of Marriage, which binds both marriage partners to a lifelong indivisible community of life.”[12]
Along with the Canons on Marriage, the Council of Trent infallibly proclaims in Canon 2, “If anyone says that it is lawful for Christians to have several wives at the same time, and that it is not forbidden by any divine law [Matt. 19:4 f.]: let him be anathema.”[13]
Thus there can be no admission to the sacraments of any Catholic who is divorced, remarried and whose original spouse still lives. Such a Catholic has broken his marriage vows and, in the objective order, lives in mortal sin. This is not an open question for Catholics, but a solemnly established truth that goes back to Our Lord Himself, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.” (Luke: 16:18). Those living in sin cannot receive Holy Communion. The possibility of a different approach cannot be a matter for discussion, even under the specious rubric of a “new pastoral approach”.
Why then are Cardinal Kasper, Cardinal Baldiserri and Pope Francis considering the heterodox Orthodox model, instead of repeating the solemn teaching of the infallible Council of Trent? Why not save a tremendous amount of time and bother? Why not avoid unspeakable confusion and scandal? Why not publicly reaffirm the defined truths of the Catholic Faith on this point, rather than pretend there can be any other Catholic view?
As demonstrated by the whirlwind responses to the Vatican questionnaire, there is now massive ignorance of the Faith among today’s Catholics. Yet our leaders seem intent on keeping them ignorant for the sake of enacting new “pastoral solutions” that effectively defy the Faith of all time. Again I quote Father Anthony Lee, “The spirit of revolution dies slowly, especially when it can subtly associate itself with genuine reform.”
It is probably no accident the Working Docuмent contains no references to the Council of Trent, to Pope Leo XIII’s Arcanum and to Pius XI’s Casti Cannubii, all of which repeat the absolute indissolubility of marriage. Are not today’s shepherds ramping up the chaos by refusing to restate these basic truths with all of their consequences? What does this say of our leaders’ quality as shepherds? What does this say of their claim to be truly pastoral?
Vicious “Non-Judgmentals”
Even before Cardinal Kasper made his reckless proposal, then-Archbishop Baldiserri opened the door for the new approach.
As Vatican Insider reported this past November 28, Archbishop Balidiserri, newly -appointed Secretary General of the Synod of Bishops, said the subject of Communion for the divorced and remarried will be discussed “without taboos”. Baldiserri also hinted that the Synod may find an alleged solution by looking to the practice of the Orthodox which allows remarriage under certain circuмstances.[14]
Baldiserri’s repeated returns to this topic, as well as Pope Francis’ enthusiasm for Kasper’s proposal, guarantees this will be a central point of discussion at the October Synod.
In fact, we already have a preview of how the new approach to marriage may play itself out.
The Synod Working Docuмent, as noted, calls for a “More widely exercising mercy, clemency and indulgence towards new unions.” Throughout the docuмent we are urged to a so-called “non-judgmental” approach to various irregular unions.
It appears, however, that any priest who prefers traditional Catholic doctrine over this new approach will be sledge hammered in a manner that shows no mercy, clemency or indulgence.
In early July, Vatican journalist Sandro Magister related the case of Father Tarcisio Vicario, a parish priest of the Italian diocese of Novaro, who reiterated traditional Catholic doctrine on the relation of the Eucharist to divorced and remarried Catholics. Vicario’s Bishop went ballistic. Cardinal Baldiserri thrust himself into the subsequent hubbub, denouncing Father Vicario’s words as “crazy”, hardily non-judgmental terminology.[15]
In his sermon, Father Vicario taught, “For the Church, which acts in the name of the Son of God, marriage between the baptized alone is always a Sacrament. Civil marriage and cohabitation are not a sacrament. There those who place themselves outside the Sacrament by contracting civil marriage are living in continuing adultery. One is not treating of sin committed on one occasion (for example, a murder), nor an infidelity through carelessness of habit, where conscience in any case calls us back to the duty of reforming ourselves by means of sincere repentances and a true and firm purpose of distancing ourselves from sin and from the occasions which lead to it.”
The Bishop of Novaro reacted with fury, denouncing Father Vicario’s words as “an unacceptable equation, even though introduced as an example between cohabitation and murder. The use of the example, even if written in brackets, proves to be inappropriate and misleading, and therefore wrong.”
Yet there was nothing inappropriate in Father Vicario’s sermon. He merely pointed out the difference between a passing sin, however serious, that can be resolved by Confession, and by the worse difficulty of actually living in sin within an ongoing relation. Father Vicario effectively answered those divorced and remarried Catholics who, we read in the Working Docuмent, “wonder why others’ sins can be forgiven and not theirs.”
Cardinal Baldiserri then stepped into the act.
Even though Novaro is located near the Swiss border and over 400 miles from Rome, even though a Vatican prelate had no business intruding himself into the affair, even though the Vatican constantly turns a blind eye to the countless exploits of heresy, apostasy and scandal by numerous priests throughout Italy, Cardinal Baldiserri made it his business to denounce Father Vicario’s words as “crazy, a strictly personal opinion of a parish priest who does not represent anyone, not even himself.” (“una pazzia, un’opinione strettamente personale di un parroco che non rappresenta nessuno, neanche se stesso.”)
Father Vicario’s alleged “personal opinion” does not represent even Father Vicario himself? This is nothing short of a rant sputtered in a white-hot surge of emotion.
Further, Father Vicario’s statements are not merely personal opinions, but the constant voice of the Church. Why then does Baldiserri snarl and hiss at Vicario’s Catholicism like a vampire before a Crucifix?
Who is the one who is crazy here? Between the two, Baldiserri comes off as the man who needs the padded cell. Yet Baldiserri is the prelate personally chosen by Francis to be the guiding force of the upcoming Synod.
I think we now have a preview of Francis’ post-Synod Church. If the present trajectory continues unaltered, expect to see faithful priests who defend the full teaching of marriage attacked and humiliated by the new “who am I to judge?” regime.
On Unnatural Unions
The Working Docuмent’s section on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity does in fact reiterate certain precepts of Catholic moral teaching, but it is also here we see repeated call for a “non-judgmental” approach. We also see the door opened to baptizing children of same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions.
We read in #113: “Every bishops’ conference voiced opposition to ‘redefining’ marriage between a man and a women through the legislation permitting the union between two people of the same sex. The episcopal conferences amply demonstrate they are trying to find a balance between the Church’s teaching on the family, and a respectful, non-judgmental attitudes towards people living in such unions.”
Again in #115: “Episcopal conferences supply a variety of information on unions between persons of the same sex. In countries where legislation exists on civil unions, many of the faithful express themselves in favor of a respectful and non-judgmental attitude towards these people and a ministry which seeks to accept them.”[16]
Unfortunately, the term “non-judgmental” is not explained, and helps fuel the secular superstition that Catholicism is unreasonably “judgmental” regarding ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. Yet the Catholic Church only reiterates the teaching of the Old Testament and the New Testament, as well as the teaching of the saints, Doctors and Fathers of the Church. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts are intrinsically evil; no set of circuмstances could ever justify these acts, which are a grave sin against nature, grave sin against God, a mortal sin that sends the soul to hell for eternity if not repented, and is one of the four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance.
Many modern Catholics, and a great host of modern Jesuits, would shudder in horror at this honest restatement of Catholic moral teaching. Yet truth does not change. As G.K. Chesterton observed, “Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
As for “judgment”: Yes, we can indeed judge that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts are sinful (even the 1992 Catechism mentions the term “grave depravity”)[17] but as to the subjective guilt of the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, that we cannot judge, for such interior movements of the soul are known to God alone.
Thus, as mentioned previously in CFN,[18] we can judge objective moral actions, whether these actions conform to God’s law or not, but we may not judge a person’s moral motives.[19] This simple but crucial distinction is found nowhere in the Working Docuмent. Further, the term “non-judgmental” is more of a contemporary media term to enflame emotions; it is the language of modern trends, not the time-proven precision of scholastic theology.
It is worth noting that we should not be unduly harsh on those who struggle with temptations that do not afflict us. The Church has noteworthy apostolates such as the late Father James Harvey’s Courage,[20] which is directed towards those who suffer same-sex attractions, and helps them overcome these sins and temptations. Courage is a Catholic and compassionate approach. It does not “celebrate” the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ lifestyle, as do too many “gαy and Lesbian Catholic Ministries,” (such as found at various US Jesuit and other “Catholic” universities, which host celebratory “coming out” days). There are no Rainbow flags on Courage’s webpage. The apostolate helps those who recognize ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity as a moral disorder, who seek to overcome these sins and live the Catholic life of sanctifying grace.
Baptism?
Much more can be said on the “same-sex” section of the Working Docuмent,[21] but in the interest of time, we move to the final point: the Working Docuмent’s treatment of baptism of children of same-sex couples.
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We read in #120: “The responses are clearly opposed to legislation which would allow the adoption of children by persons in a same-sex union, because they see a risk to the integral good of the child who have a right to a mother and father… However, when people living in such unions request a child’s baptism, almost all the responses emphasize that the child must be received with the same care, tenderness and concern which is given to other children.”
This ambiguous section stops short of explicitly encouraging baptism, but the message is clear. The door is open for Baptism of children of “same-sex couples. This is not only a misuse of the sacrament of Baptism, but will further “legitimatize” ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ unions and the new definition of “family”.
The purpose of Baptism is not simply to go through the ceremony; it the entrance to the life of Sanctifying Grace and the first step in being raised in the Catholic Faith. This necessarily includes adherence to all the Church’s dogmatic and moral truths, and to not abandon the youngster to a household where immoral lifestyles are lived as if legitimate.
In his superb four-volume Moral and Pastoral Theology series, Father Henry Davis explains: “It is contrary to the mind of the Church to baptize a child who will not be brought up Catholic. The plea is mistakenly pressed that Baptism will give it grace, give it a right to heaven, and probably lead it to the Catholic Faith.”
Father Davis continues: “The same rules as given above, apply to the children of heretics, schismatics and Catholics who have become apostates, heretics and schismatics, for these children are seriously exposed to the danger of perversion.”[22]
These Catholic principles were reflected in Canon Law. As one learned traditional priest told me, “The principles for resolution of this case come from Canon 751 and 750 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law,” which forbids baptism of children to heretics, schismatics and apostates. Thus, applying these immutable principles, such persons [same-sex couples] must be considered as formal apostates since they have openly rejected the Church’s moral teaching on sex and marriage, and this especially applies if they have attempted a so-called same-sex “marriage”. At least, such couples must be regarded as public sinners, since they openly live a lifestyle the Church has always denounced as grave sins. Have not ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs (who adopt this lifestyle) regarded the moral law of God and responded, “I will not serve?”
Granted, the Church sometimes admits the baptism of children from apostates and heretics, etc., if it can be foreseen they will receive a truly Catholic education and upbringing. But it is obvious that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples live in defiance of the Catholic Faith. Thus, to use the words of Father Davis, “These children [of these unions] are seriously exposed to the danger of perversion.”
Even Pope John Paul’s “Instruction on Infant Baptism” of October 20, 1980 reiterates this principle: “Assurances must be given that the gift thus granted [Baptism] can grow by an authentic education in the faith and Christian life, in order to fulfill the true meaning of the sacrament. As a rule, these assurances are to be given by the parents or close relatives, although various substitutions are possible within the Christian community. But if these assurances are not really serious there can be grounds for delaying the sacrament; and if they are certainly non-existent the sacrament should even be refused.”[23]
Yet under the reign of Pope Francis, if the Working Docuмent can be believed, we now have the majority of the world’s bishops open to the baptism of children of same-sex couples.
How far we have fallen from principles found even in the early Protestant schools of Boston wherein the 1789 law states, “Every town or district within this commonwealth … shall be provided with a School Master or School-Masters of good morals…”[24] Should not our modern churchmen demand from Catholic guardians the same good morals that were exacted by Protestant institutions?
Finally, as noted, the baptism of children of such “couples” cannot help but be interpreted as a tacit approval of an anti-Catholic lifestyle that is incompatible with any concept of the true Catholic upbringing and education of children.
The fact that the majority of bishops favor such baptisms reflects the doctrinal destitution of men who are the product of a maimed formation, or who have allowed themselves to be twisted to modern disorientation.
The warning of Pope Pius VIII immediately springs to mind: “Nothing contributes more to the ruin of souls than impious, weak or uninformed clerics.”[25] How much worse when weak and uniformed clerics become the majority of bishops?
Natural Law and New Language
The issue of Natural Law is a larger topic than we have time to cover in this issue. For now we will briefly mention one point.
The Working Docuмent recounts that most Catholics don’t seem to understand Natural Law. It does not, however, address the cause for this ignorance: Catholics do not understand Natural Law because it has not been taught to them.
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This deficiency is due to the widespread confusion regarding doctrine and morals that resulted from Vatican II, the countless heterodox “theologians” who now infest “Catholic” colleges, universities and seminaries while remaining priests in good standing, the downplaying of Thomistic Philosophy and Theology, and the resultant disappearance of traditional, organized, systematic scholastic text books on philosophy and theology, particularly in the Science of Ethics and Moral Theology.
In fact, one cannot properly understand Natural Law without knowledge of Scholastic Ethics and the entire traditional Thomistic framework.
Rather than call for a return to a reaffirmation of scholastic precision, however, the Working Docuмent’s projected solution will cause even more turmoil.
The Docuмent proposes, “The language traditionally used in explaining the term ‘Natural Law’ should be improved so that the values of the Gospel can be communicated to people today in a more intelligible manner.” [#30]
There we have it: more “new language” to speak in a manner intelligible to modern man.
This was also the promise of Vatican II.
We all know the alleged “updating” and “improving” of traditional Catholic language has been a principle of subversion since the time of the Council. Vatican II itself refused to employ the precision of scholastic language, and opted for a new and loose “pastoral language”.[26] The Council went on to produce ambiguous docuмents that admit both a liberal interpretation and a conservative interpretation. An ongoing Churchquake ensued.
The rejection of Thomism at the Council was due to the triumph of the “New Theology” at Vatican II. A defining mark of the New Theology is repugnance to Thomism, an underlying problem well underway prior to the Council. Pope St. Pius X noted that hatred of scholasticism is a hallmark of Modernism. Speaking of the modernist New Theology, Father Anthony Lee noted at the time of the Council, “By 1946, the destruction of scholastic philosophy and the theology had taken on the proportions of a victorious crusade.”[27]
Yet the very theologians who waged this crusade against Thomism were the same men whom John XXIII allowed to become theological “experts” at Vatican II, and thus guide the direction of the Council and the Church to this day. The neo-modernist progenies of the Council now prepare the October Synod, which has “continuous aggiornamento” written all over it.
If today’s purveyors of the new theology are permitted to undermine Natural Law, they destroy everything.
More on this crucial topic next month.[28]
Notes:
[1] “Thomism and the Council”, Father Anthony Lee, from the book Vatican II: The Theological Dimension, [Washington: Thomist Press, 1963] p. 743
[2] Preparatory Docuмent: Pastoral Challenges to the Family in the Context of Evangelization, November, 2013.
[3] “Synod Opens to Rethink Unwed, Divorce,” Ansa News, June 26, 2014
[4] For those who don’t know, to be forgiven in Confession, one must make the firm purpose of amendment against sin. For a divorced and remarried couple, this necessarily entails them separating until (if possible) the marriage can be legitimately regularized, or by separating permanently (or by truly living as brother and sister).
[5] The section on Internet, Social media and its fragmentation of the family was surprisingly well done [#68-69].
[6] The docuмent can be accessed on the Vatican website – (and yes, I’ve read the entire Working Paper – jv).
[7] “Synod Working Paper is Boring and Joyless,” Thomas Reese, National Catholic Reporter June 27, 2014.
[8] “The Secret Consistory: What Happened?”, La Stampa, March 14, 2014.
[9] For summary of Kasper at the Consistory, see Catholic Family News, April 2014 pp. 6 & 7 (articles by Father Brian hαɾɾιson and Professor Roberto de Mattei, respectively); and the conclusion of “Traditional Catholics and Noah’s Nakedness,” pp. 16-17 of the same issue.
[10] “Synod Working Paper is Boring and Joyless,” Reese (emphasis added).
[11] On this point, the Council of Trent, Session XXIV (Nov. 11, 1563) teaches infallibly: “The first parent of the human race expressed the perpetual and indissoluble bond of matrimony under the influence of the divine Spirit, when he said: "This now is bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh. Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife' and they shall be two in one flesh" [ Gen. 2:23 f.; cf. Eph. 5:31]. But that by this bond two only are united and joined together, Christ the Lord taught more openly, when referring to those last words, as having been uttered by God, He said: "Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh" [Matt. 19:6], and immediately ratified the strength of this same bond, pronounced by Adam so long ago in these words: "What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder" [ Matt. 19:6; Mark10:9.” Denzinger 969
[12] Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Father Ludwig Ott [Rockford: Tan, republished 1974], p. 467 (emphasis added).
[13] Denzinger 972.
[14] “Church Should Take New Approach Towards Question of Communion for Remarried Catholics,” Vatican Insider, Nov. 28, 2014.
[15] English report of the Magister write-up appeared on the web at: http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2014/07/italian-parish-priest-deemed-crazy-for.html
[16] Emphasis added in both quotes.
[17] Par. 2357.
[18] “Judge Not”, J. Vennari, Catholic Family News, March 2014.
[19] Unless the motives are told to us openly by the person committing these actions.
[20] “Courage” is for those who suffer same-sex attractions. “EnCourage” is for those who have a friend, loved one, family member, spouse, etc., who is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ. The group was founded by Father James Harvey, OSFS, and treats of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity within the tradition of Catholic moral doctrine and practice. Courage can be accessed on line at http://couragerc.org
[21] If time permits, we will further discuss this section of the Working Docuмent next month.
[22] Moral and Pastoral Theology, Volume III, Father Henry Davis, SJ [New York: Sheed and Ward, 1943], p. 52.
[23] Pastoralis action, “Instruction on Infant Baptism,” Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Oct. 20, 1980, #28, (emphasis added).
[24] Massachusetts School of Law, 1789, quoted from The Story Killers, Dr. Terrence O. More, [Lexington, KY: 2014], p. 19 (emphasis added).
[25] Traditi Humilitati, “On His Program for the Pontificate,” Inaugural Encyclical of Pope Pius VII, May 24, 1829.
[26] The inherent problems of “pastoral language” were foreseen by Archbishop Lefebvre even before the Council opened. In a meeting of the Preparatory Commission, Archbishop Lefebvre propose that Vatican II produced two sets of docuмents: one set in the precision of scholastic language for the theologians, and the other in more simple (pastoral) language for the average man. The precise scholastic texts would serve as the official interpretation of the pastoral texts. This proposal was immediately shot down. Archbishop Lefebvre saw through this ruse: "Liberals and Progressives like to live in a climate of ambiguity. The idea of clarifying the purpose of the Council annoyed them exceedingly. My proposal was thus rejected.” I Accuse the Council, Marcel Lefebvre, rev. ed. [Kansas City: Angelus Press, 2009], p. 4.
[27] “Thomism and the Council,” p. 465.
[28] Until next month, we give a thumbnail definition of Natural Law (also referred to as the natural moral law): Natural Law is “the universal, practical, obligatory judgments of reason knowable by all men as binding them to do good and avoid evil, and discovered by right reason form the nature of man adequately considered [i.e, adequately understood]”. It is “the sharing in the eternal law by the rational creature; the dictates of right reason concerning the necessary ordering of human nature.” Dictionary of Scholastic Philosophy, Bernard Wuellner, S.J. [Milwaukee: Bruce, 1955], pp. 68-69. We hope to cover more about this in the September issue.
Taken from the August 2014 Catholic Family News (went to press morning of August 25).
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The October 1917 Revolution run by JEWS is upon us in the Church.
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Question for CI-BoD-ers:
2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions;
Why should you (the CI-BoD-ers) have any problem with this agenda item?
After all, from the standpoint of the children (adopted or surrogate parented or whatever, since ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are cursed by God to be unable to procreate, just like the devil is), any or all of them who would desire Baptism, since they're "unable" (so far) to receive it, can have it by desire.
So what's the problem?
If the children who truly desire baptism but are prevented from being baptized receive all the effects (as it were) of the sacrament without the sacrament, why would it make any difference if this discussion of the "new pastoral approach" takes place? Why would it be anything to get upset about?
To top it off, this "Radical Synod" (you would say) isn't being conducted by the Church, so why would it matter to you what the outcome is?
For example, if this agenda item passes and those children who already had baptism of desire then get baptized, nothing changes, correct? It amounts to rubber-stamping their erstwhile legitimate (albeit arguably subjective) 'baptized' state that you believe already existed anyway.
Of course, you could go so far as to claim that this new baptism won't be valid anyway because it's no doubt somehow corrupted since everything else is corrupted. But just to steer clear of that minefield, let's presume that there at least could be SOME children validly baptized after this approval takes place, so our focus here would be on those instead of the exceptional cases.
OTOH since liberals love to only pay attention to the exceptions and the oddities, ignoring the normal scenario, thereby making the exception into the rule, maybe you'll only be willing to comment on the exceptions, since to you, those would be the rule. Beware, though, if you do that then you would only prove how liberal you are.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
.
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes sodomists, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
.
So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
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comments in caps
Complete docuмent, instrumentum-laboris-familia is here:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/docuмents/rc_synod_doc_20140626_instrumentum-laboris-familia_en.htm
b) Concerning Unions of Persons of the Same Sex
Civil Recognition
110. On unions of persons of the same sex, the responses of the bishops' conferences refer to Church teaching. “There are absolutely no grounds for considering ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family. [...] Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’” (CDF, Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Persons, 4). The responses (OF THE SURVEY) indicate that the recognition in civil law of unions between persons of the same sex largely depends on the socio-cultural, religious and political context. In this regard, the episcopal conferences describe three instances: the first exists when repressive and punitive measures are taken in reaction to the phenomenon (PREVIOUSLY KNOWN AS SIN OF SODOMY) of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity in all its aspects, especially when the public manifestation of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is prohibited by civil law. Some responses indicate that, in this context, the Church provides different forms of spiritual care for single, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ people who seek the Church’s assistance.
111. A second context is one where the phenomenon (SIN) of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is fluid. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ behavior is not punished, but simply tolerated until it becomes visible or public. In this context, legislation on civil unions between persons of the same sex does not usually exist. In political circles, especially in the West, however, the increasing tendency is to adopt laws providing for registered partnerships or so-called “marriage” between persons of the same sex. People argue non-discrimination to give support to this idea, an approach which is perceived by believers and a good part of the public, in central and eastern Europe, as an imposition by a political and foreign culture.
112. The responses describe a third context, one where States have introduced legislation recognizing civil unions or so-called “marriages” between ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ persons. In some countries, the situation reflects a real redefining of marriage, where the couple is viewed only in legal terms, with such references as “equal rights” and “non-discrimination” without any thought to a constructive dialogue in the matter based on the deeper anthropological issues involved and the centrality of the integral well-being of the human person, especially the integral well-being of the children in these unions. When legal equality is given to heterosɛҳuąƖ and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ marriage, the State often allows the adoption of children (biological children of either partner or children born through artificial fertilization). Such is the case, particularly in English-speaking countries and central Europe.
An Evaluation of the Particular Churches
113. Every bishops’ conference voiced opposition to “redefining” marriage between a man and a woman through the introduction of legislation permitting a union between two people of the same sex. The episcopal conferences amply demonstrate that they are trying to find a balance between the Church's teaching on the family and a respectful, non-judgmental (WHO AM I TO JUDGE) attitude towards people living in such unions. On the whole, the extreme reactions to these unions, whether compromising or uncompromising, do not seem to have facilitated the development of an effective pastoral programme which is consistent with the Magisterium and compassionate towards the persons concerned. (CALLING SIN SIN IS AN EFFECTIVE PASTORAL PROGRAM, BUT EVIDENTLY NOT P.C. ENOUGH FOR THOSE WHO SEEK APPROVAL OF THE WORLD)
114. A factor which clearly has an impact on the Church's pastoral care and one which complicates the search for a balanced attitude in this situation is the promotion of a gender ideology. In some places, this ideology tends to exert its influence even at the elementary level, spreading a mentality which, intending to eliminate homophobia, (THEY USE THIS MANIPULATIVE TERM WITH A STRAIGHT FACE) proposes, in fact, to undermine sɛҳuąƖ identity.
115. Episcopal conferences supply a variety of information on unions between persons of the same sex. In countries where legislation exists on civil unions, many of the faithful express themselves in favour of a respectful and non-judgmental attitude towards these people and a ministry which seeks to accept them. (NO DISTINCTION IS MADE HERE BETWEEN THOSE STRUGGLING WITH THIS SIN AND THOSE EMBRACING IT) This does not mean, however, that the faithful give equal status to heterosɛҳuąƖ marriage and civil unions between persons of the same sex. (WELL DUH!) Some responses and observations voice a concern that the Church’s acceptance of people in such unions could be construed as recognition of their union.
Some Pastoral Guidelines
116. When considering the possibility of a ministry to these people, a distinction must be made between those who have made a personal, and often painful, choice and live that choice discreetly so as not to give scandal to others, and those whose behaviour promotes and actively — often aggressively — calls attention to it. (AND WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO MAKE THE CHOICE TO NOT SIN?) Many conferences emphasize that, due to the fact that these unions are a relatively recent phenomenon, no pastoral programs (COURAGE IS SUCH A PROGRAM AND HAS BEEN AROUND FOR MANY DECADES) exist in their regard. Others admit a certain unease at the challenge of accepting these people with a merciful spirit and, at the same time, holding to the moral teaching of the Church, all the while attempting to provide appropriate pastoral care which takes every aspect of the person into consideration. Some responses recommend not using phrases such as “gαy,” “lesbian” or “ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ” to define a person’s identity. (WHY DO THEY NOT MENTION SODOMY?)
117. Many responses and observations call for theological study in dialogue (THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN) with the human sciences to develop a multi-faceted look at the phenomenon of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. Others recommend collaborating with specific entities, e.g., the Pontifical Academy of the Social Sciences and the Pontifical Academy for Life, in thoroughly examining the anthropological and theological aspects of human sɛҳuąƖity and the sɛҳuąƖ difference between man and woman in order to address the issue of gender ideology. (WHY NOT JUST GO WITH WHAT GOD SAID? HE CREATED THEM MALE AND FEMALE.)
118. The great challenge will be to develop a ministry which can maintain the proper balance between accepting persons in a spirit of compassion and gradually guiding them to authentic human and Christian maturity. In this regard, some conferences refer to certain organizations as successful models for such a ministry. (JESUS ADDRESSED THIS WHEN HE TOLD US TO HATE THE SIN AND LOVE THE SINNER.)
119. Sex education in families and educational institutions is an increasingly urgent challenge, especially in countries where the State tends to propose in schools a one-sided view and a gender ideology. Formation programmes ought to be established in schools or parish communities which offer young people an adequate idea of Christian and emotional maturity to allow them to face even the phenomenon (SIN) of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. At the same time, the observations show that there is still no consensus (COLLEGIALITY AND NOW QUESTIONAIRRES ???) in the Church on the specific way of receiving persons in these unions. The first step would be a slow process of gathering information and distinguishing criteria of discernment for not only ministers and pastoral workers but also groups and ecclesial movements.
The Transmission of the Faith to Children in Same Sex Unions
120. The responses are clearly opposed to legislation which would allow the adoption of children by persons in a same-sex union, because they see a risk to the integral good of the child, who has the right to have a mother and father, as pointed out recently by Pope Francis (cf. Address to Members of the International Catholic Child Bureau (BICE), 11 April 2014 ). However, when people living in such unions request a child’s baptism, almost all the responses (CHURCH TEACHING BY CONTROLLED RESPONSES?) emphasize that the child must be received with the same care, tenderness and concern which is given to other children. Many responses indicate that it would be helpful to receive more concrete pastoral directives in these situations. Clearly, the Church has the duty to ascertain the actual elements involved in transmitting the faith to the child.(SODOMITES ARE NOT TRANSMITTING THE CATHOLIC FAITH TO THE CHILD) Should a reasonable doubt exist in the capability of persons in a same sex union to instruct the child in the Christian faith,(????????!!!!!!!!!) proper support is to be secured in the same manner as for any other couple (THAT IS, ANY OTHERS WHO FLAUNT THEIR DISREGARD FOR THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH) seeking the baptism of their children. In this regard, other people in their family and social surroundings could also provide assistance. In these cases, the pastor is carefully to oversee the preparation for the possible baptism of the child, with particular attention given to the choice of the godfather and godmother.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
Be careful when you hang around with scoffers, 2Vermont, because you might learn how to think like them. You're not a troll. So please don't try to act like one. It doesn't look good on you! You're better than that.
.
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
.
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comments in caps
Complete docuмent, instrumentum-laboris-familia is here:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/docuмents/rc_synod_doc_20140626_instrumentum-laboris-familia_en.htm
b) Concerning Unions of Persons of the Same Sex
Civil Recognition
110. On unions of persons of the same sex,
...
Should a reasonable doubt exist in the capability of persons in a same sex union to instruct the child in the Christian faith,(????????!!!!!!!!!) proper support is to be secured in the same manner as for any other couple (THAT IS, ANY OTHERS WHO FLAUNT THEIR DISREGARD FOR THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH) seeking the baptism of their children. In this regard, other people in their family and social surroundings could also provide assistance. In these cases, the pastor is carefully to oversee the preparation for the possible baptism of the child, with particular attention given to the choice of the godfather and godmother.
Are the "comments in caps" yours, Cera, or someone else's?
.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
Be careful when you hang around with scoffers, 2Vermont, because you might learn how to think like them. You're not a troll. So please don't try to act like one. It doesn't look good on you! You're better than that.
.
You didn't answer the question. Why not? It is a valid question. Should these babies be baptized given the necessity of the Sacrament?
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1) A new “pastoral solution” to allow divorce and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion;
The only way in which divorced and remarried Catholics can recieve Communion would be if there were to be a declaration of nullity for the previous union. That might entail a change in Canon Law to make this possiblity more accesible to those who were unable to access the benefits of the Church's judgement. Of course a declaration of nullity is based on justice. It is not automatic.
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2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions.
This issue has been addressed before. This type of couple would be classified as either non-Catholic or fallen away Catholic, or Excommunicated. The only way tht their infants could be baptised would be if their Catholic upbringing were to be provided for.
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2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions.
This issue has been addressed before. This type of couple would be classified as either non-Catholic or fallen away Catholic, or Excommunicated. The only way tht their infants could be baptised would be if their Catholic upbringing were to be provided for.
Of, if they were in danger of death.
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I think the synod is going to be a real eye opener for some people.
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
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So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?
Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?
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Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, renews his argument against changes in Church teaching on marriage, in a new book-length interview.
In The Hope of the Family, Cardinal Müller argues that the greatest problem facing the Church is not the relatively small number of divorced and remarried couples who wish to receive Communion, but the very large number of couples who do not understand the Christian meaning of sacramental marriage.
The German cardinal calls for a renewed emphasis on instruction in the Church’s teachings on marriage and family life. While advocating pastoral solicitude for divorced Catholics, he argues forcefully against the suggestion—championed by another German prelate, Cardinal Walter Kasper—that the Church might allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive the Eucharist.
In his preface to The Hope of the Family, another leading prelate, Cardinal Fernando Sebastian Aguilar, the retired Archbishop of Pamplona, Spain, argues:
A simple 'adaptation' of the reality of marriage to the expectations of the world does not bear any fruit, but rather turns out to be counterproductive: the Church cannot respond to the challenges of the modern world with a pragmatic adaptation. In opposing an easy pragmatic adaptation, we are called to choose the prophetic audacity of martyrdom.
The Hope of the Family is the result of a lengthy conversation between Cardinal Müller and a Spanish journalist, Carlos Granados. It was published simultaneously on July 29 in Spain, Italy, and the US.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22154
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
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So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?
Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?
Duh. Did you read anything?
children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
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comments in caps
Complete docuмent, instrumentum-laboris-familia is here:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/docuмents/rc_synod_doc_20140626_instrumentum-laboris-familia_en.htm
b) Concerning Unions of Persons of the Same Sex
Civil Recognition
110. On unions of persons of the same sex,
...
Should a reasonable doubt exist in the capability of persons in a same sex union to instruct the child in the Christian faith,(????????!!!!!!!!!) proper support is to be secured in the same manner as for any other couple (THAT IS, ANY OTHERS WHO FLAUNT THEIR DISREGARD FOR THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH) seeking the baptism of their children. In this regard, other people in their family and social surroundings could also provide assistance. In these cases, the pastor is carefully to oversee the preparation for the possible baptism of the child, with particular attention given to the choice of the godfather and godmother.
Are the "comments in caps" yours, Cera, or someone else's?
.
my comments
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
.
So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?
Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?
Duh. Did you read anything?
children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
Oh I read. Did you?
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
.
So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?
Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?
Yes, babies who die unbaptized go to Limbo, which is called hell.
And yes, we respond the same way to all non-Catholic children. Unless death is imminent, the Church never permits the baptism of infants unless they are going to be raised in the faith.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
Be careful when you hang around with scoffers, 2Vermont, because you might learn how to think like them. You're not a troll. So please don't try to act like one. It doesn't look good on you! You're better than that.
.
You didn't answer the question. Why not? It is a valid question. Should these babies be baptized given the necessity of the Sacrament?
Sorry I deleted someone's post by accident.
No these children should not be baptized in the Roman Catholic Church.
And the parents should excommunicated and denied Holy communion for failing to repent for their sins of adultery, divorce
And ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and other sins of the flesh. It doesn't have the true sacraments anyway.
It's becoming more and more like a black mass.
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Where does the athesists synod take place?
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In a book-length interview, Cardinal Gerhard Mueller has underscored that the indissolubility of the marriage is no mere doctrine, but a dogma of the Church, and stressed the need to recover the sacramental understanding of marriage and family.
Cardinal Mueller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, granted the interview in June to the Spanish journalist Carlos Granados, director of the Biblioteca de Autores Cristianos in Madrid.
The book is titled “The Hope of the Family”, and will be released in English, Italian, and Spanish. It will be published shortly by Ignatius Press, and is priced at $10.95.
In the book, Cardinal Mueller corrects misunderstandings about the Church’s teaching on family; underscores the dramatic situation of the children of separated parents; and stresses that more education is needed, and that education should start from the reality of the love of God.
The book can be considered Cardinal Mueller's definitive contribution to preparations for the next synod of bishops, dedicated to the family, which will take place in Rome Oct. 5-19; he has chosen to give no further interviews for the time being.
The synod's theme will be “pastoral challenges to the family in the context of evangelization,” and numerous outlets have speculated about a possible change in Church teaching regarding the reception of Communion by those who are divorced and remarried, as well as a more lax discipline regarding annulment.
Despite such speculation, Cardinal Mueller underscored that “the total indissolubility of a valid marriage is not a mere doctrine, it is a divine and definitive dogma of the Church.”
Cardinal Mueller also addressed discussions on the possibility of allowing spouses to “start life over again,” and that the love between two persons may die.
“These theories are radically mistaken,” the prefect said.
Cardinal Mueller explained, “one cannot declare a marriage to be extinct on the pretext that the love between the spouses is ‘dead’”, because “the indissolubility of marriage does not depend on human sentiments, whether permanent or transitory. This property of marriage is intended by God himself. The Lord is involved in marriage between man and woman, which is why the bond exists and has its origin in God. This is the difference.”
Cardinal Mueller identify the mistakes in understanding the marriage in society – shared by such countenances as Cardinal Walter Kasper – as a result of the individualistic society, and launches the initiative of a new announcement of the word of God to overcome these mistakes.
“In a world that is angrily individualistic and subjectivist, marriage is not perceived anymore as an opportunity for the human being to achieve his completeness, sharing love,” Cardinal Mueller lamented.
He then stressed: “Someone is called to announce once again God, the loving Trinity! We should announce the revealed God who calls all of us to be part of his relational being.”
Cardinal Mueller asks for a more in-depth education on marriage, and maintains that “remote preparation for marriage – from infancy and adolescence – should be a major pastoral and educational priority.”
The Vatican's doctrinal chief emphasized that “life has sense only when it becomes a concrete gift to another in daily life.”
Life “is given in the mystery of marriage, which becomes the privileged place where the definitive and unconditioned self-gift is made,” a gift that “gives sense to our life,” said Cardinal Mueller.
According to the cardinal, the reason the modern world's sense of marriage is mistaken is rooted in a misguided anthropology that “leads to disaster,” because true humanism “is theocentric.”
“As a shepherd, I say to myself: it can’t be! We must tell people the truth! We should open their eyes, telling them they have been cowardly tricked through a false anthropology which can only lead to disaster.”
Responding to this, he suggested that pastor's “tools may vary,” but “we should above all speak about the authentic love and the concrete project which Christ has for every person.”
Cardinal Mueller also addresses misunderstandings which have sprung up around Pope Francis.
Addressing the media frenzy around his description of the Church as a field hospital, Cardinal Mueller said the image is “very beautiful. Nevertheless, we cannot manipulate the Pope by reducing the whole reality of the Church to this image. The Church in itself is not just a hospital: the Church is also the house of the Father.”
Cardinal Mueller also tackled the issue of the poor, so pivotal in Pope Francis’ teaching.
The prefect said that “among the poor of the third and fourth world,” those relegated to the “existential peripheries,” there are “the children who must grow up without their parents,” the “orphans of divorce,” who are perhaps “the poorest of the poor of the world.”
These poorest of the poor, these orphans of divorce, are most often found, not in materially impoverished nations, but in Europe and North America – some of the world's wealthiest places.
“These orphans of divorce, sometimes surrounded by many goods and with much money available, are the poorest among the poor, because they have many material goods yet are deprived of the fundamental good: the self-giving love of two parents who deny themselves for their children.”
“The Hope of the Family” also features a preface written by Cardinal Fernando Sebastian Aguilar, Archbishop Emeritus of Pamplona and Tudela, who wrote that “the main problem present in the Church with regard to the family is not the small number of the divorced and remarried who would like to receive Eucharistic communion. Our most serious problem is the great number of baptized who marry civilly and of sacramentally married spouses who do not live marriage or the marital life in harmony with Christian life and the teachings of the Church, which would have them be living icons of Christ's love for his Church present and working in the world.”
The book-interview of the German cardinal is his latest contribution to the preparations for the upcoming synod. He has been joined in his defense of marriage by such other cardinals as Caffarra, Brandmueller, Bagnasco, Sarah, Re, Ruini, De Paolis, and Collins.
Ignatius Press will also release, on Oct. 7, “Remaining in the Truth of Christ,” a work of five cardinals responding to Cardinal Kasper and “(challenging) the premise that traditional Catholic doctrine and contemporary pastoral practice are in contradiction.”
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/marriages-indissolubility-a-dogma-cardinal-clarifies-33479/
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Only parents who commit to raising their children in the Church are allowed to have their children baptized. It would be cruel to baptize a child and not raise him or her in the faith, causing greater suffering in eternity. That said, this obviously excludes Sodomites, who refuse to follow Church teaching. Their adopted victims, that is, children, are not allowed to be baptized into a Church being rejected and yet used/ exploited by them.
But you're talking about the TRUTH. Sodomites are cursed by God. This is a dogma of the faith (unlike BoD, which is not a dogma of the Faith), for it is found literally in Scripture, and it has been universally believed and practiced throughout the history of the Church (unlike BoD, for example).
It is obvious from the reality of the natural order, by which it is impossible for Sodomites to procreate. They are inherently sterile. And in that way they are like their father, the devil, who is also unable to procreate.
God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility. Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
Therefore, even when the so-called civil law might allow Sodomites to adopt children (something that cries to heaven for vengeance and the Mohammedans are likewise offended by this, for which cause they may well become the scourge to punish the West for this vile corruption, etc.), nonetheless, said children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
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So, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then these babies go to Hell if they die before allowed baptism?
Do we respond the same way to the children of heterosɛҳuąƖ couples living in sin?
Duh. Did you read anything?
children cannot be given permission to be baptized because they cannot be raised in the Faith when their home is saturated with open sewage of abomination against God and against the natural law and against all justice.
Oh I read. Did you?
To be more specific, out of Charity, of course the Church's answer is the same to children of heterosɛҳuąƖs living in sin. They cannot be baptized. To do so would be cruel as baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul.
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This better. We should make defeating this a priority.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
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So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
To deny children of sodomite parents baptism in which 2Vermont says
he feels is wrong.
I sincerely disagree, it is not wrong to deny these children baptism
because if they are baptized and the parents are unrepentant
sinners. It would give the green light that the church is changing
its teachings.
This is how the man on the street will see it. Inviting more serious
sins committed by people whom were instructed with true
traditional Catholic teachings, would never committed the sins
because of all the liberalism in the church.
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This better. We should make defeating this a priority.
I agree. It's even worse than the synod alone. Now the lavender lobby is going to have a pre-synod media event. I will post links when I have time.
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Church Leaders Supporting Same-Gender Couples
LGBT Advocates Will Explain ‘Ways of Love’ to Synod of Bishops
As you probably already know, in October this year, the Vatican will be hosting a world synod of bishops to discuss marriage and family issues. Just days before that meeting begins, an international group of Catholic supporters of LGBT people will be meeting in Rome, along with representatives of the Waldensian Church and of the civil society, in order to discuss about how to renew the pastoral care with a view of fully including the LGBT people, and same-gender couples and families.
The conference, entitled “The Ways of Love: International Conference for a Pastoral Care with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and TranssɛҳuąƖ People,” will take place on Friday, October 3, 2014, in Rome. At the close of the conference, an appeal for appropriate pastoral care for LGBT people will be made to the bishops meeting in the synod.
A keynote speaker at the event will be Bishop Geoffrey Robinson, a retired auxiliary bishop from Australia who is the author of the book, Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church. Bishop Robinson was a featured speaker at New Ways Ministry’s Seventh National Symposium in 2012, where he called for a total re-vamping of the Catholic Church’s teaching on sɛҳuąƖity.
In addition to Bishop Robinson, the other speakers will be:
James Alison, Catholic theologian and priest. Originally from the United Kingdom, he residesin Brazil and has worked extensively on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and Catholic faith, in particular on Catholic consciousness and gαy consciousness;
Antonietta Potente, theologian and Italian Dominican nun based in Bolivia. She will offer a reflection on a new approach of the Gospel to the LGBT people;
Letizia Tomassone, Waldensian pastor, President of the Commission on Faith and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity of the Baptist, Methodist, and Waldensian Churches in Italy. She will tell about the path that these Churches have undertaken before openly including the LGBT people and couples;
Joseanne Peregin, President of the Christian Life Community in Malta and mother of a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ man. She will tell about the feelings and the fears that Catholic parents may have when it comes to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ children.
In anticipation of this conference, the website for the meeting has been posting interviews with some of the conference organizers, an international group of people from five continents. Below is a sampling from some of those interviews, describing the needs of LGBT Catholics and the hopes for the syond. Clicking on each name will bring you to the page with the entire interview with that person.
Michael Clifton, David et Jonathan, France:
“When the PACS (Civil Union bill) was introduced in 1999, the Roman Catholic Church’s reaction was quite hysterical, with demonstrators chanting ‘Les pédés au bûcher!’ (‘Burn the fαɢɢօts!’). When last year (2013) the present government introduced a law allowing marriage and adoption for same-sex couples, there were once again enormous demonstrations, sometimes violent.
“The Church paid for special trains and buses to carry demonstrators to Paris and in churches the faithful were asked to pray for the demonstrators. But officially no members of the hierarchy took part in these demonstrations: some of them just went along before the demonstrations to congratulate and encourage the demonstrators.
“The archbishops of Paris and Lyon made quite strong public statements, likening ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity to, for example, zoophilia. Since the law has been enacted, the climate has become quieter and rumours are going around that a large number of the bishops regret the excessive language of last year.
“Even so, the bishop of Bayonne, earlier this year, went to Russia to congratulate Putin on his energetic persecution of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs. On the other hand, two or three bishops have made definite attempts to set up some dialogue with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ groups and there is also some contact with influential theologians.”
Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry, USA
“I think this synod is a great opportunity for bishops to discuss LGBT people, relationships, and families. It is the first time the bishops are covering the topics of marriage and family in a synod since the question of legal marriages for gαy and lesbian couples has become a reality. Many bishops from around the world have already publicly acknowledged that most Catholics do not accept the moral condemnation of loving, committed lesbian and gαy relationships.
“If these bishops are honest, I think they will realize that this rejection of the church’s teaching is not because people don’t understand it, but because Catholics of good faith have reflected prayerfully on their experiences of lesbian and gαy people and couples and have witnessed something holy in their lives and commitment.
“It’s also the first synod under Pope Francis. I think the bishops know that people around the world have responded positively to Francis’ new, welcoming approach to LGBT people. I think they will realize that any negative statements from the synod about lesbian and gαy couples will alienate a great number of Catholics in the pews.”
Gianni Geraci, Progetto Gionata, Italy:
“Pointing out new ways where the ecclesial communities and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs can meet and discover a new meaning for the announcement of the Gospel is what is needed. The idea is to follow in Abram’s footsteps, who wasn’t defeated by fear, who didn’t stand still in Harran where his father took him, who didn’t want to know in advance where the Lord was taking him, who didn’t ask for reassurance but only God’s promise to keep him under His blessing. (Gen. 12:1, 2).
“ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs’ experience is deeply connected to Abram’s vocation: just like him, they need to face a horizon they don’t know, go down a road of which the final destination is unknown and the challenge of turning their ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity into sanctity without role models or points of reference. Just as happened to Abram, they will hear their old friends ask: ‘Why are you doing this? Live your life and give up unrealistic ambitions. Don’t walk roads you are not familiar with.
“But just as Abram did, they will hear God’s promise echo in their hearts: it is absurd to human reasoning (‘I will make you into a great Nation’, the Lord said to him when he was seventy-five and with no children because of his wife’s barreness) and it is demanding (‘Go from your country, your people and your father’s household’). This promise, apart from His blessing (‘I will bless you’), has no warranty (‘Go to the land I will show you’). There is only an undefined destination that the Lord will point out on the way. Yet it is God’s promise.”
The conference is sponsored by the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups and financially supported by the Ministry of Education, Science and Culture of the Netherlands. It will be held at the Waldensian Faculty of Theology, Rome.
In addition to the three people quoted abover, other conference organizers include:
Francesco Boschi (REFO, Italy); Michael Brinkschroeder (European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups, Netherlands); Marianne Duddy-Burke (DignityUSA, United States); David Musonda (Dette Resource Foundation, Zambia); Innocenzo Pontillo (Progetto Gionata, Italy); Andrea Rubera (Nuova Proposta, Italy); Diane Xuereb (Drachma LGBT, Malta).
–Bob Shine, New Ways Ministry
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God has given man the power to generate progeny, and He has cursed the devil and Sodomites alike with sterility.
An attractive friend of mine (from decades ago) could only wish that that were always true.
Therefore, the only way for the devil and Sodomites alike to increase and multiply is by stealing the progeny of others, like piracy or criminal action, by stealth and subversion, by hook or by crook.
She'd waved off multiple fiances over the years, finally choosing to marry someone she decided satisfied a subjective criterion of physical attraction. That's despite him having been divorced after only a few years of his first marriage (um, might there have been relevant records accessible from his divorce court?). It was either during or shortly after their honeymoon that he impregnated her. Then 1½ years later, phone calls that she overheard made it clear why he'd been divorced: As a husband, he was a fraud--a promiscuous f@ggot.
So, if as the GLBT lobby insists nowadays, their sexu@l orientations are determined by genetics instead of environment, by fathering 2 children (the 1st being from his 1st marriage), he'd potentially added 2 recruits for sodomy & Satan. I can't help but suspect that the 2 wives are not merely isolated victims of a single devious f@ggot, but instead, 2-among-many victims of a widespread-but-unreported aspect of the GLBT agenda.
A well earned 2nd divorce followed rather quickly. I have no idea how either child turned out, but their environments remained risky, because the f@ggot former-husband had been judicially granted visitation "rights" for each.
None of the above involved "pastoral care" by any Catholic church; both were members of a more-or-less Protestant denomination widely regarded by outsiders as a cult.
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To even attend this synod is sinful. It offends God, blessed Mother and the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is an attack against the Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman and traditional
Catholic family. October 2014 sex synod then 2015 then Philadelphia hosts Pope for Families.
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Many more will leave Novous ordo.
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To even attend this synod is sinful. It offends God, blessed Mother and the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is an attack against the Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman and traditional
Catholic family. October 2014 sex synod then 2015 then Philadelphia hosts Pope for Families.
I disagree. Cardinal Mueller has already stated that the indisolubility of marriage is a doctrine of the Catholic Church. This truth should be reiterated at every opportunity. This synod would be a great opportunity for those concerned to proclaim the Cahtolic Faith.
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I don't expect any replies. CI-BoD-ers might be a lot of things, but they're not stupid.
They should be able to see in advance when they are already defeated before they start.
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So, I'm guessing you are all for the children of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples to be baptized and baptized ASAP, right?
For me, I am actually torn on this. It seems wrong to keep them from baptism, but at the same time they aren't being brought up in the Faith.
The eternal torments of hell are worse for those who are baptized than for the pagans who are not, for they have the supernatural grace that they then, later in life, reject.
Denying baptism to babies, other than when they are in danger of death, who will never be raised in the faith or, as likely in the case at hand, will be raised with a perverted notion of the faith, is actually a more merciful action than likely sending the soul to the deeper regions of hell.
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To even attend this synod is sinful. It offends God, blessed Mother and the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is an attack against the Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman and traditional
Catholic family. October 2014 sex synod then 2015 then Philadelphia hosts Pope for Families.
I disagree. Cardinal Mueller has already stated that the indisolubility of marriage is a doctrine of the Catholic Church. This truth should be reiterated at every opportunity. This synod would be a great opportunity for those concerned to proclaim the Cahtolic Faith.
The Novus Ordo sect will still try to make divorce and remarriage and receiving Our Lord for those people a thing. Remember, these heretics think they're above Catholic doctrine and above Our Lord - that's the only way they could even try to "reconcile" this with Catholicism.
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To even attend this synod is sinful. It offends God, blessed Mother and the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
This is an attack against the Sacrament of Marriage between man and woman and traditional
Catholic family. October 2014 sex synod then 2015 then Philadelphia hosts Pope for Families.
I disagree. Cardinal Mueller has already stated that the indisolubility of marriage is a doctrine of the Catholic Church. This truth should be reiterated at every opportunity. This synod would be a great opportunity for those concerned to proclaim the Cahtolic Faith.
The Novus Ordo sect will still try to make divorce and remarriage and receiving Our Lord for those people a thing. Remember, these heretics think they're above Catholic doctrine and above Our Lord - that's the only way they could even try to "reconcile" this with Catholicism.
Tose people who think that they are above Catholic doctrine won't pay any attention to the synod. They will continue to do whatever they have been doing.
At the synod various individuals will make all kinds of speeches advocating all kinds of inovations. However Cardinal Meuller has already clarified that the indisolobulity of marriage is is a Catholic doctrine. Marraige is for the life of the spouses. It doesn't end until one of the spouses dies.
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Yes, babies who die unbaptized go to Limbo, which is called hell.
And yes, we respond the same way to all non-Catholic children. Unless death is imminent, the Church never permits the baptism of infants unless they are going to be raised in the faith.
1) Limbo is NOT Hell. There is no possible way for anyone to construe Limbo as Hell.
2) Thousands of babies have been baptised over the centuries who were not raised in the faith correctly, yet their baptisms are no less valid.
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I agree with what Bishop Athanasius Schneider said a few months ago in an interview he gave in the UK. If I recall correctly, he said that the problems that will come from the synod will reveal how serious the crisis is. Which will be a good thing, IMO. So many in the Church don't think there's a problem. Bp. Schneider said also that he can forsee a split coming,leading to an eventual renewal along traditional lines, but that this won't before the crisis has plunged the Church into further disarray, and that eventually the man-centered clerical system will collapse. He also said that traditional Catholics may be persecuted or discriminated against, but that eventually the Supreme Magisterium will issue an unequivocal doctrinal statement rejecting any collaboration with neo-pagan ideas.
Bp. Schnieder says that trads will be persecuted and discriminated against, but that's already been going on for a long time now. Maybe he thinks that it will get worse - I dunno.
There's also an interesting article on the Eponymous Flower blog which gives a testimony of a nun (in Rome, I think) showing that Benedict XVl was indeed forced out of the papacy.
I think that if Benedict was still pope in the event of a schism, the revolutionaries would be breaking away form the Pope. But with Francis at the helm, the revolutionaries will stay in Rome, and maybe faithful Catholics in the hierarchy will be tempted to leave instead. I think that it will be a terrible mess. It will be "cardinals opposing cardinals, I think."
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-resignation-of-benedict-xvi-from.html