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Offline XavierSem

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Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
« on: April 05, 2019, 02:58:12 AM »
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  • A wonderful victory. The TLM continues to benefit the whole Church and re-vitalizes Catholic life in the parishes that promote it. This is the best path for Tradition to follow in the next 10-20 years, and if we do it right, without doubt 100s of thousands of Priests will begin offering the TLM, many of them exclusively, and 100s of millions of Catholics will benefit, and millions more can be sanctified through the blessings and graces that the TLM, the Church's principal source of Grace, brings to them and their families; and thus several millions throughout the world will be saved. This work is very important and very urgent and we cannot afford to get it wrong.

    Thoughts on this event?



    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/traditional-latin-mass-saves-u.s.-parish-from-closure

    "Traditional Latin Mass saves U.S. parish from closure
     Catholic, Extraordinary Form, Latin Mass, Mass, Thomas Tobin, Traditional Latin Mass


    PROVIDENCE, Rhode Island, April 3, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – A historic U.S. Catholic Church has escaped closure thanks to the return of the traditional Latin Mass.  

    St. Mary’s Church on Broadway in Providence, Rhode Island was the focus of a WPRI news spot this past Sunday because the ancient liturgy now being celebrated there has increased the congregation, leading to a fuller collection basket and thus a future for the 150-year-old church.

    St. Mary’s “is going back in time in order to move forward,” said WPRI News reporter Julianne Lima in the two-minute report.

    Lima interviewed Jim Forte, who joined the parish of St. Mary’s a decade ago. Founded in 1853, the parish has been emptying in the past ten years, thanks to unspecified “changes.” Forte indicated that the remaining parishioners knew that their church would close if they couldn’t sustain it financially.  

    However, the church has been saved thanks to the current Bishop of Providence. In August 2018, Bishop Thomas J. Tobin asked a liturgically traditional order of priests to take charge of St. Mary’s. Father John Berg of the Fraternity of the Priests of Saint Peter (FSSP) is now the pastor and offers Mass solely in the traditional form.

    Variously called the Tridentine Mass, the TLM, the Mass of John XXIII, and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, this form of the Roman Rite has changed little over the millennia. It is said or sung in Latin from liturgical books first published in 1962.  

    Parishioner Jim Forte said that he was at first “skeptical” about the parish’s return to traditional worship, citing people who told him that if he stayed he’d be “taking a step backwards” and “going back in time.”

    Instead, the restoration drew Catholics from all over New England to St. Mary’s: the average parishioner now travels for 45 minutes to attend or, to use traditional language, “assist” at the Mass.

    WPRI News interviewed a young man named Jack Marriott, who has been assisting at traditional Masses for four years but had not previously been able to join a traditional Mass parish.  

    “I’ve been waiting for something like this to come along,” he said. “Something with a full community life that just isn’t offered anywhere near where I live.”

    The St. Mary’s website lists a number of pious groups and sodalities that harken back to a time when Catholic churches in Rhode Island were packed on Sundays. They include an Altar Servers Guild in which boys are expected to special prayers every day, and the Rosa Mystica Girls Society, in which girls are asked to offer a ministry of hospitality. There is also a monthly Young Adults’ group meeting.

    The website also provides a brief look at the richness of the parish’s history. It quotes the late Bishop Russel McVinney’s description of St. Mary’s on its 1953 centenary as an “illustrious and venerable parish, that bespeaks the vibrant dynamic faith of the Catholics of this area,” venerable for its  “distinguished record of Catholic loyalty and devotedness” and  illustrious  for “the stalwart faith of its people.”

    “A full parochial life with catechism, sacramental preparation, devotions, and groups of formation for the youth is offered at St. Mary’s,” wrote the website’s editor.  “We live in the hope that one day, by the grace of God, we will closely resemble the description of the parish given just sixty-five years ago.”  

    “It will never close now,” Forte told WPRI News ...
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 05:29:50 AM »
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  • He Makes All Things New – Secular News Report on TLM in Providence, RI April 2, 2019
    Posted by Tantumblogo in awesomeness, Basics, episcopate, fightback, General Catholic, Glory, Grace, Latin Mass, priests, Restoration, thanksgiving, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.
    trackback 
    https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2019/04/02/he-makes-all-things-new-secular-news-report-on-tlm-in-providence-ri/

    "Former Superior of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) Father John Berg is highlighted in a local TV report about the restoration of a parish in Providence, Rhode Island after it switched from the inefficacious “church of accompaniment” model to that of Holy Mother Church – e.g., the traditional practice of the Faith.  A parish that was headed for closure is now growing and expecting a bright future with large families and devout souls:



    Some thoughts – they obviously visited during Mass on Laetare Sunday. What a blessing to have such a beautiful church which helps focus the mind on our eternal end and the great gifts of the Church and her Saints.  The church still needs some restoration – an altar rail and probably a proper baptistery among other things.  Nevertheless, they have some wonderful material to work with.  Would that we were so fortunate  here locally, but perhaps one day we will be.  Also, I appreciated the comment from one gentleman about the fundamental difference between a Novus Ordo parish offering a TLM or two – as beneficial and wonderful as that is – and a parish dedicated to the entire traditional practice of the Faith in all its forms and with all the manifold benefits that brings.  So true, so true.

    Speaking of the future and the local Latin Mass parish Mater Dei, it was reported this past Sunday that Mater Dei is expected to have 2500 souls attending on Sunday within 7 or 8 years, if not sooner.  Wow.  That will be interesting.  I still think that indicates sufficient “demand” for another TLM parish, but I don’t see the bishop queueing up to ask my opinion on the matter anytime soon.

    Our eternal Holy Mother Church will be restored, one way or another (either the Church will return to her true nature after this generation of charlatans and self-interested grifters passes, or Christ will come again).  I prefer the former, but may His will be done!

    Good on Bishop Tobin for bringing a full TLM parish back to New England.  May there be many more."
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 06:34:12 AM »
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  • Thoughts on this event?
    I actually gave this some thought and conclude that at least for now, in celebrating the True Mass they're not performing it's sacrilegious mockery - which makes this a very good thing, even if many of the congregation are for the time being, confused. 
    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 08:26:14 AM »
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  • A wonderful victory. The TLM continues to benefit the whole Church and re-vitalizes Catholic life in the parishes that promote it.

    This crisis is not predominantly about the Mass but about the faith ... something which you have not heeded from the teaching of Archbishop Lefebvre himself.  Honestly, you're only one step removed from poche.

    You see, things like this can do more harm than good.  It can lull the faithful into complacency that the Novus Ordo is in fact Catholic when the TLM is placed in front of it as a facade.  I still for the life of me can't figure out why you don't go FSSP but persist in your schism.  Were you kicked out of FSSP for inappropriate behavior?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 08:32:18 AM »
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  • This is why I hold that JP2 did more harm than Bergoglio.  True Catholics recognize Bergoglio for the non-Catholic fraud that he is, but JP2 and B16 had people fooled because they presented a facade of Catholicism.

    JP2 upheld Traditional Catholic MORAL teaching very strongly.  So many well-meaning Catholics were duped into thinking that he was orthodox, and more readily swallowed the heresies of religious indifferentism that he pushed left and right.

    B16 preached in Latin and played the part of a conservative, but he was as Modernist as they came.  But people were more inclined to swallow the Modernist aspects of his teaching and less likely to detect them when presented to them alongside of actual Catholic teaching.

    You hide the bitter medicine inside of something sweet and delicious, to hide the taste, to get a child to swallow.  That's what JP2 and B16 did.

    And the TLM in the Novus Ordo is the same thing.  You can have a Latin Mass but then find the priest getting up there injecting all manner of Modernist thinking into his sermons, which the people could readily confuse for Catholicism since it is being delivered in the Catholics context of the TLM.

    There is LITERALLY no such thing as pure evil.  Pure evil by definition (quite literally) does not exist.  Everything that exists has some good in it, some truth.  So simply because the Novus Ordo in the TLM exhibits some truth, this does not mean that it is integrally Catholic.  You can find even Anglican who have a Traditional-looking liturgy (the "High Church" ones) ... but it's infested with their heresy and schism.  And ironically, the MORE good there is in something, the more dangerous it is, because it's more effective at delivering the evil that comes along with it.  If something is 99% Catholic, the 1% non-Catholic can easily be injected into someone's mind.  And that's where the damage is done.  Then you add another % here, another there, and before you know it, the frog of Catholic faith has been boiled to death.


    Offline St Paul

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 09:21:40 AM »
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  • He Makes All Things New – Secular News Report on TLM in Providence, RI April 2, 2019
    Posted by Tantumblogo in awesomeness, Basics, episcopate, fightback, General Catholic, Glory, Grace, Latin Mass, priests, Restoration, thanksgiving, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.
    trackback
    https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2019/04/02/he-makes-all-things-new-secular-news-report-on-tlm-in-providence-ri/

    "Former Superior of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) Father John Berg is highlighted in a local TV report about the restoration of a parish in Providence, Rhode Island after it switched from the inefficacious “church of accompaniment” model to that of Holy Mother Church – e.g., the traditional practice of the Faith.  A parish that was headed for closure is now growing and expecting a bright future with large families and devout souls:



    Some thoughts – they obviously visited during Mass on Laetare Sunday. What a blessing to have such a beautiful church which helps focus the mind on our eternal end and the great gifts of the Church and her Saints.  The church still needs some restoration – an altar rail and probably a proper baptistery among other things.  Nevertheless, they have some wonderful material to work with.  Would that we were so fortunate  here locally, but perhaps one day we will be.  Also, I appreciated the comment from one gentleman about the fundamental difference between a Novus Ordo parish offering a TLM or two – as beneficial and wonderful as that is – and a parish dedicated to the entire traditional practice of the Faith in all its forms and with all the manifold benefits that brings.  So true, so true.

    Speaking of the future and the local Latin Mass parish Mater Dei, it was reported this past Sunday that Mater Dei is expected to have 2500 souls attending on Sunday within 7 or 8 years, if not sooner.  Wow.  That will be interesting.  I still think that indicates sufficient “demand” for another TLM parish, but I don’t see the bishop queueing up to ask my opinion on the matter anytime soon.

    Our eternal Holy Mother Church will be restored, one way or another (either the Church will return to her true nature after this generation of charlatans and self-interested grifters passes, or Christ will come again).  I prefer the former, but may His will be done!

    Good on Bishop Tobin for bringing a full TLM parish back to New England.  May there be many more."
    "Mater dei"
    https://www.materdeiparish.org
    They have a "sacrament" called "Reconciliation".
    Please show me where, in the baltimore catechism, it says there is such a sacrament.
    A liberal by any other name is still a liberal.
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    Wake up.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #6 on: April 05, 2019, 09:29:34 AM »
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  • Quote
    This crisis is not predominantly about the Mass but about the faith
    Absolutely agree 1,000%!  New-churchers think that if everyone went to the TLM in all the dioceses, then everything would be hunky-dory.  Far from it.  Any good derived from the TLM by the laity is still off-set and undermined by the heresies and lies still promoted by the local Bishops and priests (and Cardinals) everywhere.  Take for example, DC, where +Francis just named an openly-pro-gay Bishop there.  What good does it do that area when there are TLMs offered, but the Bishop promotes anti-catholic "gay friendly" masses, attends pride marches, allows or turns his head when divorced catholics receive communion, etc, etc?

    On the whole, sure, it's a great thing to see catholics attend the True Liturgy, instead of the abomination that is the new mass, but if they still are being taught errors and heresies (i.e. NFP, V2's almost-universal salvation, V2's false religious liberty, V2's false ecumenism, annullments on-demand, scandalous dress at mass, lack of reverence in church, gay-friendly and socialistic agendas in the schools, etc, etc, etc.  I could write a book about the errors that poor, new-catholics are taught.) does that teach them catholic truths, which they lack and need?  No.  NEW CATHOLICS DON'T KNOW THEIR FAITH AT ALL!  It's a sad, sad state of affairs but ignorance is a punishment for sin, which is why all of us who know our Faith have no excuses for not making it to heaven and Our Lord will not be lenient with us at the judgement.  But these new-catholics, as the saying goes: "don't know what they don't know".  V2 has stolen the Faith from all of us, going on 2 generations now.  They may have access to the True Liturgy, which is good, but you can't get to heaven without the True Faith, (the pure, unadulterated Faith) which new-rome hates and undermines continuously.  All the masses in the whole cannot change this.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 09:59:26 AM »
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  • The fact that Novus Ordo priests celebrate their NO Mass on the same altar and place their NO communion hosts in the same ciborium used by those priests who are celebrating the TLM should raise huge questions.

    Why is there a deliberate co-mingling of communion hosts so that no one knows for sure if they are truly receiving communion? The doubt raised caused me to stop receiving communion at the diocesan TLM and to cease going there.

    The priest who served the TLM rushed through the service, which became a huge distraction. Often, he would not even serve, but would ask another priest to serve a NO mass in its place. Thus, the parishioners never knew if there would be a TLM that Sunday. Cardinal Mahony knew this and allowed this abuse to continue as these Latin Masses generated a lot of revenue. If the revenue stopped, then the Cardinal discontinued using that chapel for the Latin Mass. No money, no mass.

    Doesn't the co-mingling of hosts cause doubt and lead to lack of faith?

    And what about those priests who celebrate the TLM? Are they validly ordained?

    Lord have mercy.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 02:49:56 PM »
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  • The fact that Novus Ordo priests celebrate their NO Mass on the same altar and place their NO communion hosts in the same ciborium used by those priests who are celebrating the TLM should raise huge questions.
    People I have known who go to diocesan-approved TLMs have said that the priests who offer these Masses in otherwise NO churches do regularly consecrate hosts for distribution at that TLM.
    A reason might be that, to my understanding, it is normal in the NO to try to give communion with hosts consecrated at that Mass, at least on Sundays, and the hosts not distributed on Sunday are retained and used at weekday Masses. It would seem natural for diocesan priests who offer diocesan-approved TLMs to do likewise. 
    Additionally, a substantial segment of traditionaliists do not have doubts about NO Masses and ordination rites. Those who do have such general doubts wouldn't likely go to a diocesan TLM anyway.

    Online JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 03:17:21 PM »
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  • Absolutely agree 1,000%!  New-churchers think that if everyone went to the TLM in all the dioceses, then everything would be hunky-dory.  Far from it.  Any good derived from the TLM by the laity is still off-set and undermined by the heresies and lies still promoted by the local Bishops and priests (and Cardinals) everywhere.  Take for example, DC, where +Francis just named an openly-pro-gay Bishop there.  What good does it do that area when there are TLMs offered, but the Bishop promotes anti-catholic "gay friendly" masses, attends pride marches, allows or turns his head when divorced catholics receive communion, etc, etc?

    On the whole, sure, it's a great thing to see catholics attend the True Liturgy, instead of the abomination that is the new mass, but if they still are being taught errors and heresies (i.e. NFP, V2's almost-universal salvation, V2's false religious liberty, V2's false ecumenism, annullments on-demand, scandalous dress at mass, lack of reverence in church, gay-friendly and socialistic agendas in the schools, etc, etc, etc.  I could write a book about the errors that poor, new-catholics are taught.) does that teach them catholic truths, which they lack and need?  No.  NEW CATHOLICS DON'T KNOW THEIR FAITH AT ALL!  It's a sad, sad state of affairs but ignorance is a punishment for sin, which is why all of us who know our Faith have no excuses for not making it to heaven and Our Lord will not be lenient with us at the judgement.  But these new-catholics, as the saying goes: "don't know what they don't know".  V2 has stolen the Faith from all of us, going on 2 generations now.  They may have access to the True Liturgy, which is good, but you can't get to heaven without the True Faith, (the pure, unadulterated Faith) which new-rome hates and undermines continuously.  All the masses in the whole cannot change this.
    If this Sunday, you had the Latin Mass back in every parish, nothing would change. In fact, you'd probably end up with a system like the Anglicans, where the very Catholic-looking Anglican parishes are also the most pro-gay.

    Actually, the closer they get to Catholic practice, where some will say the Tridentine Mass rubric by rubric in the Queen's English, the worse they are. That's why so many have left, as an aside.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 03:20:43 PM »
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  • Quote
    People I have known who go to diocesan-approved TLMs have said that the priests who offer these Masses in otherwise NO churches do regularly consecrate hosts for distribution at that TLM.
    Yes, most priests consecrate hosts at their indult TLMs, but many still mix the hosts together with those of the novus ordo.  I've seen this happen with my own eyes.


    Quote
    Additionally, a substantial segment of traditionaliists do not have doubts about NO Masses and ordination rites. Those who do have such general doubts wouldn't likely go to a diocesan TLM anyway.
    This is off-topic but wanted to point out that a personal doubt about the novus ordo or the ordination rites is totally separate from the actual, factual, positive doubts which exist due to the theological and sacramental changes and deficiencies.  One's personal doubts are irrelevant to the larger doubts which exist, whether they are aware or not.  How many people think erroneously that the Civil War was fought mainly over slavery?  What poeple think is often different from reality.


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 03:35:45 PM »
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  • People I have known who go to diocesan-approved TLMs have said that the priests who offer these Masses in otherwise NO churches do regularly consecrate hosts for distribution at that TLM.
    A reason might be that, to my understanding, it is normal in the NO to try to give communion with hosts consecrated at that Mass, at least on Sundays, and the hosts not distributed on Sunday are retained and used at weekday Masses. It would seem natural for diocesan priests who offer diocesan-approved TLMs to do likewise.
    Additionally, a substantial segment of traditionaliists do not have doubts about NO Masses and ordination rites. Those who do have such general doubts wouldn't likely go to a diocesan TLM anyway.

    I know several large Catholic families in Southern California who used to attend the diocesan-approved TLMs, sometimes taking three hour trips (one-way) to attend those TLMs because Cardinal Mahony would rotate the parishes in which the TLMs were held making it very inconvenient for the Latin Mass parishioners. In these parishes, which would only have one TLM per month, hosts were often co-mingled. In fact, the priest celebrating the TLM was told to use the NO hosts in the ciborium and not to consecrate extra hosts. Thus, those attending the TLM would rarely receive hosts consecrated at the TLM.

    These families told me that their youngest children, very devout, would complain that Jesus was not in the tabernacle. These same little ones also told their parents not to argue because it upset their guardian angels whom they could see. These families then started to attend either the SSPX or the TLM with Father Melito because their children would cry otherwise.

    Did you know that back in the 1980s and 1990s, St. Dominic's parish in Eagle Rock was preparing the first communion class using Oreo Cookies and apple juice? As a result, many of those students did not like to receive communion because they preferred the Oreos and apple juice, so not only were NO children growing up avoiding confession, but they also avoided communion.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 03:38:19 PM »
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  • I can’t speak for the diocese in Rhode Island.  In other dioceses, many Latin Mass Chapels raise money for USCB which ends up in the pockets of anti Catholic groups. They have to meet quota.  They also have to participate in ecumenical diocesan events which include charismatic yoga meditation, talks by pro sodomite cardinal and liberal feminists who can’t boil water etc.  



    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 03:43:58 PM »
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  • I can’t speak for the diocese in Rhode Island.  In other dioceses, many Latin Mass Chapels raise money for USCB which ends up in the pockets of anti Catholic groups. They have to meet quota.  They also have to participate in ecumenical diocesan events which include charismatic yoga meditation, talks by pro sodomite cardinal and liberal feminists who can’t boil water etc.  
    Yes, no money, no TLM.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Parish saved from closure through the TLM!
    « Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 03:51:35 PM »
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  • Quote
    These families told me that their youngest children, very devout, would complain that Jesus was not in the tabernacle. These same little ones also told their parents not to argue because it upset their guardian angels whom they could see. These families then started to attend either the SSPX or the TLM with Father Melito because their children would cry otherwise.
    And it shall come to pass after this, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy: your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (Joel 2:28 )

     

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