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Author Topic: Not the SSPX of 40 Years Ago: Neo-SSPX Is Directly Attacking Sedevacantism ... P  (Read 1641 times)

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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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The SSPX has never put forward sedevacantism as its official policy.

That said, the SSPX long-tolerated sedevacantism as a private opinion. Even its criticism of the so-called "Nine" or then-Fr. Guerard des Lauriers was not an attack on sedevacantism in se, rather it was a criticism that their presentations of the sedevacantist and sedeprivationist theories was imprudent and premature. Even Msgr. Lefebvre never excluded the possibility of a long vacancy, he merely believed that in his time such a judgment would be too soon. Further, not all the Nine were sedevacantist in the 1980s although most had embraced that position by 2000.

Now however, like so many Trad Inc. R&R types, the SSPX is openly attacking sedevacantism:

https://youtu.be/tktlEwHFQAk?feature=shared

WHY???
"I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Offline Mr G

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Now however, like so many Trad Inc. R&R types, the SSPX is openly attacking sedevacantism:

https://youtu.be/tktlEwHFQAk?feature=shared

WHY???
Because of Pope Francis, there is more reasons to believe he was not the Pope, 1.) heresy before and after election 2.) substantial error in the resignation 3.) error in his concept of what a Pope is 4.) illegal campaigning 5.) CIA manipulation. Thus, more people are likely to accept he was not the Pope and neither is Leo, thus the R&R group must try harder to keep people (and their money) from leaving. 


Offline Stubborn

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Funny how you say this sermon is attacking sedeism, seemed almost more like a nothing burger to me. All he did was give a short,  elementary talk about what sedeism amounts to. At my SSPX chapel we had a much better sermon on sedeism this past Sunday.  
 
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Funny how you say this sermon is attacking sedeism, seemed almost more like a nothing burger to me. All he did was give a short,  elementary talk about what sedeism amounts to. At my SSPX chapel we had a much better sermon on sedeism this past Sunday. 
 
Had you read the title of this thread to the end uou would have seen thd word "poorly" to describe this.

Dogmatic sedevacantism is as annoying as R&R. Nuanced sedevacantism and sedeprivationism are legitimate, logical opinions.
"I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Online WorldsAway

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Funny how you say this sermon is attacking sedeism, seemed almost more like a nothing burger to me. All he did was give a short,  elementary talk about what sedeism amounts to. At my SSPX chapel we had a much better sermon on sedeism this past Sunday. 
 
Anyone else hear one? Wonder if there was a memo sent out :confused:
John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


Offline Stubborn

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Had you read the title of this thread to the end uou would have seen thd word "poorly" to describe this.

Dogmatic sedevacantism is as annoying as R&R. Nuanced sedevacantism and sedeprivationism are legitimate, logical opinions.
I completely agree, but what generally happens is those "legitimate, logical opinions" turn into de fide doctrines outside of which there is no salvation. 

 
Anyone else hear one? Wonder if there was a memo sent out :confused:
That was the first thing I wondered too. I would think the subject will be popular for a little while since the papal election is a current event, which is how my priest opened his sermon.
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline ElwinRansom1970

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That was the first thing I wondered too. I would think the subject will be popular for a little while since the papal election is a current event, which is how my priest opened his sermon.
I could see how such a sermon might be connected indirectly to the message of the epistle for the Sunday after Ascension (1 Peter 4:7-11) , but I cannot see anyway such a sermon would fit with the Gospel (John 15:26-27, 16:1-4) or with any of the propers or preces for the Mass.

It drives me crazy when sermons stray from the fundamental principles of homiletics and the decrees of Trent on preaching.
"I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Offline songbird

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I wonder about the sermon of Our Lady of Sorrows, Phoenix. Was sent a text from my friend and  I deleted it. It was a live steam with sermon.  


Offline Seraphina

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I finally got the audio at my old SSPX chapel from Sunday. The sermon had nothing to do with Sedevacantism, not even an honorable mention. 

Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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Hard to listen to the same tired points, even on double the speed.  So glad I bailed out of the Goodship Lolipop that is the SSPX.

Offline IndultCat

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Hard to listen to the same tired points, even on double the speed.  So glad I bailed out of the Goodship Lolipop that is the SSPX.
Here's a little interesting story for you:  Remember when the SSPX had that Damage Control Conference called "Resistance To What?" It was around the time the SSPX Resistance was just getting started and they tried to keep as many SSPX members as possible away from any and all Resistance priests and chapels. Well I listened to the entire Q&A session of that conference and it PROVED that the majority of the SSPX laity have indeed been "brainwashed" by the SSPX clergy and other officials.

If you go back and listen to the Q&A session of that conference, you can hear one lay member stand up and actually say these words: "Is it okay if I ask......" Now that right there is proof positive that this layman was frightened to even ASK a question to the panel members who organized and ran this conference. No grown man should ask if it's okay to simply ask a question.

And that's not all. When a layman began speaking (it might have even been the same layman who asked permission to ask a question... I forget because it's been so long since I listened to it), a panel member quickly stopped him during a sentence and said "Wait! Be careful!" as if to warn him either NOT to say something that would be damaging to their position against the Resistance or NOT to finish his statement because the panel member sensed a statement or question was coming that the panel did not want to address at all. It was a very quick damage control move on the part of the SSPX panel members and I never forgot how "shady" and "cult-like mind-controlling" that behavior seemed to be.

It was then that I realized the following:

1. That the SSPX faculty were merely doing damage control and were never interested in truthfully addressing all of the questions the SSPX laity had concerning the Resistance in the first place;
2. The SSPX faculty had instilled fear into its members so much so that a grown man was afraid to even ask a question about the Resistance; and
3. The SSPX was in the wrong when a panel member actually tried to censor a layman's questioning statements. That proved the SSPX had something to hide and that it wasn't comfortable at all with having an open panel discussion (which it claimed to be having through this "Resistance To What?" Conference)

I might go back and listen to that Q&A section again because it is very revealing in that it shows what the SSPX will resort to in order to keep their flock in line. It's amazing how practically none of the SSPX members in attendance addressed the sleazy verbal tactics of the panel.

Check it out and hear for yourself.


Offline Seraphina

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:laugh1:  “Is it okay if I ask…”

That’s one preface that I’ll never ask of the SSPX or any trad organization!  If I’m told a topic of public concern is off limits, I’m out of there.  I don’t ask in public about personal matters or questions whose answers require long, detailed, or case by case explanations. If I do it by mistake, I fully expect the priest or moderator to indicate the proper venue for my question.

This sort of incident is exactly why I come to Mass, go right inside to pray, hear Mass, make my thanksgiving, and depart shortly thereafter.  I don’t do trad politics, end of story. If a priest asks me something along those lines privately, then of course I’ll answer if it concerns the faith. If it’s whether  I drove Fr. So-and-so to the airport in 2015, I have to politely decline to answer. That has no bearing on the supreme law of the Church which is the salvation of souls. If a priest is one who uses the Sacraments as a weapon, then I leave. Saving my soul is not of primary interest to him. I’m not going to be a sacrificial pawn in his game of chess.

Offline anonymouscatholicus

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Priest in the sspx chapel where I went to regularly scolds sedevacantists and sedevacantism as this big boogeyman error of our time. Only few sedes are still left in the chapel. There have been many cases of spiritual blackmail. If you do not do this or that (in relation to sede question), no more sacraments for you, you are forbidden to attend, etc.. And this threat was not to public sinners, novus ordo attendees or pants wearing ladies. They are all in "good standing" of course. How will such priests stand before God with clean conscience? The thought itself horrifies me.

Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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Here's a little interesting story for you:  Remember when the SSPX had that Damage Control Conference called "Resistance To What?" It was around the time the SSPX Resistance was just getting started and they tried to keep as many SSPX members as possible away from any and all Resistance priests and chapels. Well I listened to the entire Q&A session of that conference and it PROVED that the majority of the SSPX laity have indeed been "brainwashed" by the SSPX clergy and other officials.

If you go back and listen to the Q&A session of that conference, you can hear one lay member stand up and actually say these words: "Is it okay if I ask......" Now that right there is proof positive that this layman was frightened to even ASK a question to the panel members who organized and ran this conference. No grown man should ask if it's okay to simply ask a question.

And that's not all. When a layman began speaking (it might have even been the same layman who asked permission to ask a question... I forget because it's been so long since I listened to it), a panel member quickly stopped him during a sentence and said "Wait! Be careful!" as if to warn him either NOT to say something that would be damaging to their position against the Resistance or NOT to finish his statement because the panel member sensed a statement or question was coming that the panel did not want to address at all. It was a very quick damage control move on the part of the SSPX panel members and I never forgot how "shady" and "cult-like mind-controlling" that behavior seemed to be.

It was then that I realized the following:

1. That the SSPX faculty were merely doing damage control and were never interested in truthfully addressing all of the questions the SSPX laity had concerning the Resistance in the first place;
2. The SSPX faculty had instilled fear into its members so much so that a grown man was afraid to even ask a question about the Resistance; and
3. The SSPX was in the wrong when a panel member actually tried to censor a layman's questioning statements. That proved the SSPX had something to hide and that it wasn't comfortable at all with having an open panel discussion (which it claimed to be having through this "Resistance To What?" Conference)

I might go back and listen to that Q&A section again because it is very revealing in that it shows what the SSPX will resort to in order to keep their flock in line. It's amazing how practically none of the SSPX members in attendance addressed the sleazy verbal tactics of the panel.

Check it out and hear for yourself.

The Secret Police level tactics have been in vogue a long time for anyone wishing to see it.  In the wake of 2012, Fr. Beck and Fr. Rostand each visited the chapel to work damage control.  My dad asked two questions and Fr. Beck said, 'you're a question hogger' and no one else in the audience was asking questions.  lol  Fr. Rostand was working his tap dance routine and I asked, 'How is this not Operation ѕυιcιdє?'  He said he had to go say Mass.  Basically, the smelly rotting corpse that is the SSPX needs to be taken out back and shot so an organization worth the name can replace it.

Offline Giovanni Berto

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This interesting story shows very well what we all know deep down, that in the SSPX, questions are not to be asked. You can almost feel it in the air. It's a tense, toxic enviroment. The faithfull are a nuisance, and if they are anything but foolish and naive, they are considered dangerous people, and are to be avoided by the others.

Even if a particular priest does not agree with the leadership and wants to act like a normal person, he knows that he might be expelled just like the inconvenient man sitting on the pew asking questions. It is a group ruled through fear. It's no wonder that we have so many weird priests who seem to have deep psychological issues.