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Author Topic: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD  (Read 8017 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
« Reply #105 on: March 20, 2021, 02:51:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 20, 2021, 09:38:34 AM
    I would say Limbo. Clearly the theologians cited by De Lugo distinguished between justification and salvation (as Father Feeney did), but I don't recall or haven't read what they say about someone who would hypothetically die justified but not saved.

    So my answer is Limbo.  Father Feeney simply answered "I don't know."  I am unaware of whether these other theologians dealt with the question at all.
    Fr. Feeney said: "There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water".

    He also said: "Unbaptized infants who die go to Limbo. Notice, they do not go to Hell. Also notice, they do not go to Heaven. Unbaptized adults who die go to Hell. Notice they do not go either to Limbo or to Heaven".

    Which is what I believe and is akin to saying no one dies justified and unbaptized, i.e. God will provide the sacrament to all who are in the state of justification before they die.

    I do not believe justification is obtained at all without the sacrament, but if such a thing were possible, it seems against Catholic reason to think that God would take that person before having him baptized. And what good would it do anyone to be in the state of justification and die without baptism? I mean, to miss heaven at all is to miss it completely and as he said, adults who die unbaptized go to hell.

     
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: New St. Alphonsus Quotes on Implicit BOD
    « Reply #106 on: March 21, 2021, 09:25:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: XavierSem on March 21, 2021, 08:31:12 AM
    On the contrary, it is Tridentine Dogma that those dying in justifying Grace are ultimately saved. This is de fide, and Fr. Feeney's opinion expressed above must therefore be suitably modified in light of it. Fr. Feeney's St. Benedict's Centre has already done this, and now openly admits it is de fide dogma that all who die justified in Sanctifying Grace are infallibly ultimately saved. SBC: "Anticipating the rejoinder that no one is lost who dies in the state of grace, let me just affirm that I agree. Not only that I agree, but that I submit to this truth as I would a dogma of Faith."

    The Tridentine declaration, plain as day, that those who die justified are infallibly saved: "we must believe that nothing further is wanting to the justified, to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life, to be obtained also in its (due) time, if so be, however, that they depart in grace: seeing that Christ, our Saviour, saith: If any one shall drink of the water that I will give him, he shall not thirst for ever; but it shall become in him a fountain of water springing up unto life everlasting."

    With this slight correction, as now held by Saint Benedict's Centre, Feeneyism now suddenly becomes a legitimate Catholic position.

    It is heretical to deny BOD. It is heretical to say the justified who die in Grace will be lost. But to hold what SBC does is acceptable.

    I'm going to start a thread on Spiritual Communions and what Trent said about it. Spiritual Communions are the Eucharist "in voto".

    The Tridentine declaration, plain as day, starts out saying:

    "As regards those who, by sin, have fallen from the received grace of Justification, they may be again justified, when, God exciting them, through the sacrament of Penance they shall have attained to the recovery, by the merit of Christ, of the grace lost....."

    The Tridentine declaration, plain as day, is NOT talking about a mythical BOD.

    With your consistent rejection and denial of the truth, you have corrupted yourself and see only what you believe, which is not what is written.

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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