Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism  (Read 36915 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #210 on: October 10, 2019, 10:45:57 AM »
There is already a break with the universal consent of bishops.  If you consider novus ordo bishops have a vote in this consent, then many of them have openly questioned +Francis.  If you do not consider novus ordo bishops to have a say in the "universal consent" (and I do not, being they are just as materially heretical as the post-V2 popes), then the lack of universal consent (which is near unanimous) among Trad bishops, is proof enough that every post-V2 pope was doubtful.
False: There is not a single Bishop with jurisdiction who rejects Francis’ legitimacy.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #211 on: October 10, 2019, 11:23:24 AM »
Nope: You are saying they are heretics for alleging they question a dogmatic fact.

Idiot.  I have repeatedly said that what they are questioning is not dogmatic fact, while you repeatedly assert that what they are questioning is dogmatic fact.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #212 on: October 10, 2019, 11:28:21 AM »
But all the Bishops with ordinary jurisdiction also accept Vatican II and the New Mass.  And while some might say Vatican II is technically not infallible, they aren't going to say that Vatican II was destructive to the faith or anything like that.  Not one.

You once argued to me that even Athanasius Schneider (the very best bishop with jurisdiction at this point) isn't at all solid because the New Mass is displeasing to God.  Yet its universally accepted as *not* a sacrilege.

I've said before I don't know whether its dogmatically certain that Francis is Pope.  I'm questioning the logic on which that is based.  I do think we should presume that he's the Pope unless/until we are told otherwise by competent authority.  But is it absolutely certain?  I don't know.  

Absolutely.  Every single "bishop with jurisdiction" unanimously approves, endorses, and teaches Vatican II.  These R&R jokers hold that universal consensus backs Bergoglio but then claim that universal consensus is irrelevant in endorsing these errors and harmful disciplines.  Both are a function of the same, the infallibility of the Ecclesia Credens.  So if you must accept Bergoglio because of this universal consensus, then you must accept Vatican II and the New Mass by virtue of the very same universal consensus.  R&R are a bunch of hypocrites in atttempting to apply the universal acceptance criterion.

Another example of R&R wanting to have their cake and eat it too, of maintaining contradictory propositions at the same time.  That is invariably the sign of intellectual dishonesty.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #213 on: October 10, 2019, 11:29:42 AM »
False: There is not a single Bishop with jurisdiction who rejects Francis’ legitimacy.

There is not a single Bishop with jurisdiction who rejects the New Mass or the teachings of Vatican II.

Re: ++Lefebvre and sedevacantism
« Reply #214 on: October 10, 2019, 11:30:12 AM »
Idiot.  I have repeatedly said that what they are questioning is not dogmatic fact, while you repeatedly assert that what they are questioning is dogmatic fact.

Sweetie, hush now.

:baby:

There is not a single approved pre-conciliar theologian who has disputed that a universally accepted pope  is a dogmatic fact.

Consequently, for you to impute to Lefebvre/Williamson the questioning of the conciliar papacies is to impute to them the questioning of a dogmatic fact (which Cartachini says is a “mortal sin against the faith”).