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Author Topic: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?  (Read 25225 times)

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Re: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2022, 01:36:41 PM »
Any serious lie before marriage invalidates the traditional Catholic vow.  Whether or not the reason qualifies as "serious" should be discussed with a good traditional priest.

I would be interested to know just how serious the lie has to be, to make the marriage invalid.  A mistake of person --- in an arranged marriage, where you have not seen the spouse before the wedding day, or just met them shortly before, and an imposter is inserted where you were fooled as to who the person is (but could that ever happen in the modern world?) --- yes, being misled about the character and life history of the person, again, I'd be interested to know where that line is drawn.

Having married someone who turns out to have been a serial killer before the wedding, and you were of the mindset, even if you'd never given it any thought (as you had no reason to suspect your spouse of such a thing), that "I would never marry anyone who had been a serial killer", that would probably hold up.  Having served 30 days in jail for shoplifting (for instance), that's a whole other thing.  (And it might be worth noting that, in either case, no lie had been told, nobody asked the crooked spouse "have you ever been a serial killer?" or even "have you ever shoplifted and served time in the county jail on account of it?".)

Thoughts from the forum?

Offline Matthew

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Re: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2022, 01:48:09 PM »
Here's the hard pill to swallow, which has caused many to leave the Catholic Faith (see John chapter 6 -- apparent disciples left Our Lord and "walked with Him no more" because "this saying is hard, and who can hear it?")

A bad marriage, or a miserable marriage, or a lonely marriage, is not something you can dissolve or make disappear with the wave of a magic wand. Even the Church can't "help you" here.

One partner forcing the other into a sexless marriage for example. As long as the marriage was consummated, especially if you have one or more children, then the right intentions were assumed to be there at the outset.

Things falling apart, things going bad, spouses growing apart, one/both spouses becoming miserable -- none of those things mean a marriage never took place. They only mean a marriage has gone horribly wrong, you have a BAD marriage, but a marriage nonetheless.

Remember, an annulment is NOT Catholic divorce! There are many reasons non-Catholic couples get divorced -- each divorced couple sought to dissolve or break up a "bad marriage", a marriage where things went wrong, and one/both spouses are unhappy. Usually so they can try again for "happiness" with someone else.

We must not confuse these two concepts!

Often one or both spouses enter into a marriage with vague expectations of the future, that they never voice or barely know about themselves. For example, how much they expect to be earning in 10 or 30 years. What married life will be like. How many children they will have. Precisely what will be required of them, in raising their children. What challenges they will face. What kind of status the man will have in 20, 30 years. What retirement will look like. And so on. There might be differences in EACH OF THESE THINGS if you could somehow X-ray each spouse and look into their deepest thoughts. But such a thing isn't possible. These discrepancies are the seeds of future disagreements and problems. But they don't invalidate a marriage.


Re: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2022, 01:49:13 PM »
How about if a husband planned to get an annulment if the marriage didn't work out?

or

 going to a strip club with his groomsmen and getting a lap dance the night before the wedding?

Offline Matthew

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Re: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2022, 01:54:49 PM »
A) How about if a husband planned to get an annulment if the marriage didn't work out?

or

B) going to a strip club with his groomsmen and getting a lap dance the night before the wedding?

A) If you could prove it, it would invalidate the marriage contract, since marriage is necessarily exclusive, indissoluble, and for life. That's why most priests won't participate in a wedding unless the couple attends some kind of marriage preparation classes, where they learn that "marriage is for life, to one person" and other important things.

B) It would mean he's starting his marriage out on the wrong foot, in mortal sin, and I see a bad marriage coming -- but I don't see how any mortal sin, even of the flesh, would invalidate a marriage. It would have to be a sin which *affects the nature of marriage itself*, such as threatening the priest with death unless he marries them, lying about who you are, hiding the fact you had yourself sterilized, etc.

Again, a down-to-earth, vague "OOOOOh, That's just WROOOOONG, sista!" is not the same thing as something that invalidates entering into a valid marriage contract. We have to reason with our HEADS, not with our hearts.

Re: Is There a Legitimate Way for Trads to get an Annulment?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2022, 02:18:18 PM »
A) If you could prove it, it would invalidate the marriage contract, since marriage is necessarily exclusive, indissoluble, and for life. That's why most priests won't participate in a wedding unless the couple attends some kind of marriage preparation classes, where they learn that "marriage is for life, to one person" and other important things.

B) It would mean he's starting his marriage out on the wrong foot, in mortal sin, and I see a bad marriage coming -- but I don't see how any mortal sin, even of the flesh, would invalidate a marriage. It would have to be a sin which *affects the nature of marriage itself*, such as threatening the priest with death unless he marries them, lying about who you are, hiding the fact you had yourself sterilized, etc.

Again, a down-to-earth, vague "OOOOOh, That's just WROOOOONG, sista!" is not the same thing as something that invalidates entering into a valid marriage contract. We have to reason with our HEADS, not with our hearts.
Thanks for your response.  I wonder...

It seems that most Concilliar Catholics have the belief that they can always just get an annulment.  That's quite the Catch 22. 

With regards to sins of the flesh, doesn't that indicate that he didn't plan on being faithful to one woman?

Are your thoughts based on Canon Law or other sources?