Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is Strickland waking up?  (Read 8708 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johannes

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
  • Reputation: +92/-284
  • Gender: Male
Is Strickland waking up?
« on: November 13, 2024, 06:00:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Strickland seems like a genuine guy. I hope he fully wakes up to the Vatican II heresies and denounces the false church at its root like Vigano did. In this scathing rebuke, he literally calls all the bishops heretics, and Francis an apostate (though I don't think he fully realizes that is what he is doing). He still thinks of them as Catholics who can retain their offices.

    Bishop Strickland: God will punish bishops for their silence while Pope Francis destroys the Church - LifeSite

    It could have been written by Fr. Hewko. 


    I would bet $20 that Fr. Hewko gives a h0mily about it within the week!  

    i.e. (in his booming voice)
    "Strickland is waking up! He is right! But he needs to reject Vatican II, that the new mass gives grace, the new mass miracles are real, etc..." 

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/bishop-strickland-god-will-punish-bishops-for-their-silence-while-pope-francis-destroys-the-church/?utm_source=featured-news&utm_campaign=usa

    He could do a lot for Tradition if he just gets that final push of grace. Please pray and fast for his conversion.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47066
    • Reputation: +27894/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #1 on: November 13, 2024, 06:17:26 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yeah, he's basically accused Bergoglio of having deviated from the Faith.  I made an X post encouraging him to contact Archbishop Vigano to take the next steps.

    Yes, we know where he needs to go eventually, but we need to have some patience, as with +Vigano, who took it one step at a time.  He may or may not make it to where he needs to be, but he's moving in the right direction, and it's wrong to criticize him because he hasn't fully woken up yet.  Few of us did not go on some journey to get to where we're at.

    At the same time, he keeps posting various Encyclicals from Wojtyla on X, and I keep responding by pointiing out how Wojtyla the Great was the biggest religious indifferentist to ever sit on the See of Peter and that his activities make the Pachamama look like childsplay and that the all religions lead to God was pioneered by Wojtyla the Great, not Bergoglio.  Hopefully he sees it and start to realize that Bergoglio isn't an "outlier" but that his predecessors were just as bad and that the entire Conciliar religion is not Catholic.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47066
    • Reputation: +27894/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #2 on: November 13, 2024, 07:22:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • 100%


    Though I would be remiss to not acknowledge my fear for him is that he will end up creating some kind of pseudo-traditional novus ordo schism of the schism cult - like the "underground" Chinese "church". So, hopefully he does put those missing pieces together sooner rather than later. Prayers and sacrifices!

    Yes, I saw that Novus Ordo Watch took a shot at Bishop Strickland, since he hadn't gone far enough, for which I rebuked them.  As you put it, they need to pray for him rather than criticize him ... as if that's going to draw him in their direction somehow.

    So, I'm hoping that Bishop Strickland now reaches out to +Vigano to take the next steps.  Sometimes it just takes that one extra factor to give something the needed momentum, where if you now have 2 NO bishops defecting from the Conciliar Church and denouncing Bergoglio, you may then add another (perhaps Cardinal Zen, who also recently attached Jorge), and then another ... and at some point it hits a critical mass where it starts moving, like a snowball that starts rolling downhill when that one extra snowflake puts it over the top.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47066
    • Reputation: +27894/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2024, 07:08:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • BREAKING: Bishop Strickland Rebukes Pope and US Bishops (@38:00 mm)

    I struggled a bit with Lofton, because he is so personally distasteful to me as a person. But then it finally dawned on me that he actually understands the situation 100% and has chosen to plant his feet firmly in the Modernist camp. It really only comes down to 2 positions, you are either with the man claiming to be pope - who 99% of the worlds self-professed Catholics also acknowledge to be so - no matter what Satanic filth pours out of his mouth or evil acts he commits or endorses, or you will come by degrees (some quicker than others, no two people are exactly the same and everyone has different gifts/resources) to see that he is not really a true pope. Even though I think someone with Lofton's "schooling" is most likely bad-willed, I think his take on what happens next with Strickland is spot on.

    Oh, Lofton is absolutely horrible, constantly popesplaining away.  He regularly contradicts himself, at first, for example, having denounced the blessing of sodomite couples, touting the fact that Bergoglio didn't approve of it ... until Bergoglio approved of it and then suddenly he was for blessing sodomites.  He's just a total scuмbag grifter.  I'd have more respect for a flaming-at-the-mouth Modernist who's at least sincere in his beliefs rather than this unprincipled turd.

    I have no idea why anyone takes that loser seriously or spends 30 seconds watching his show.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Reputation: +3468/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #4 on: November 15, 2024, 10:22:52 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Agreed. Though his prediction about Vigano turned out true, and similarly what he said in the above clip from the 38:00 mm to the 38:08 mm (8 seconds), I think will equally prove true. I never listened to him for his commentary (which is beyond terrible), but he started dropping into my feed when his channel first started because I was watching a lot of SSPX stuff. At that time, I was still defending the ecclesiology of the SSPX, so he angered me as I saw his criticisms as unjust. But like I said above, after studying the SV position long and hard I had a moment of revelation that He actually does understand that R&R is a dead-end and principally not Catholic. The only logical choice is to either be for the Conciliar Church and its popes or completely against it (no middle ground), therefore I was able to see that he is most likely a bad-willed actor trying to keep sheep in the wolves' den rather than the conservative Novus Ordo that he pretends to be. So, from time-to-time I still give him a quick listen to get a feel on how his camp is thinking. I was especially grateful to see the Dimond's put him in his place as an, "useful idiot of Satan" and even 80-lbs-soaking-wet-90-year-old Zen jump on his back calling him out as a, "large man with a tiny beard". Sometimes we can learn from our enemies too. Lofton needs prayers for his conversion.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus have mercy on us and our erring brethren - 300 days.



    I can understand why you think that R&R is not Catholic, but then neither is sedevacantism, IMO. They are both reactions to the fact of Modernists having taken over and are occupying the Church. Both are a means for trying to make sense of a terrible situation - an abnormal situation - so we can't expect that there will be a solidly Catholic response, since the Church has not directly ever addressed about how to deal with this type of situation. 

    I don't see how anyone can stand Lofton. He's extreme in his views. And not in a good way.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Reputation: +3468/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2024, 11:08:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fair enough! I often think these days that maybe there is no one left who is truly Catholic at least in the sense that we would all like to be. But some of us desire to be so, and the true test of our faith is summed up well in Mueller's Catechism:

    Lesson X.—Qualities of Faith.
    Q. When is our faith quite pleasing to God?
    A. When it is strong, lively, entire, and sound.
    Q. When is our faith strong?
    A. When we believe without the least doubt, and choose to lose all, even our life, rather than fall away from it.
    Q. When is our faith lively?
    A. When we practise what our faith teaches.
    Q. When is our faith entire?
    A. When we believe all the truths which the Catholic Church teaches, as contained in the Holy Scripture or tradition.
    Q. When is our faith sound?
    A. When we avoid not only open heresy, but also diligently shun, and in our hearts dissent from, those errors which approach it more of less closely, and religiously observe those constitutions and decrees whereby such evil opinions, either directly or indirectly, have been proscribed and prohibited by the Holy See.

    Familiar Explanation of Christian Doctrine by Rev

    So, for our faith to be pleasing to God it must be all these things (no error). For me, I see error in the ecclesiology of R&R, though I know it is not based on bad-will, but as you say, it is a reaction trying to make sense of an unprecedented situation. So, I had to spend a lot of time reading up on Infallibility (which Mueller's work above is actually quite good on). The continued study and prayer have aided me to conclude that the R&R undermines the dogma of Infallibility in a way that at least I cannot personally reconcile with the faith. But, from the opposing side I know that R&R argue the SV position undermines the dogma of Indefectibility. The doctrines on Infallibility are more explicit in what one must believe, while Indefectibility is a little less clear and there is also historical precedent for a remnant Church, but not for popes teaching heresy for the universal Church. I just asked myself which dogma was clearer in its definitions, and I have internally adopted the SV position so as to carry out my duties/function, because no two dogmas of the faith can coexist in a state of tension/opposition within a soul that must embrace the entirety of the faith.

    I think that our faith can be pleasing to God, even if we do not take an intellectual approach, as some sedevacantists do. After all, Our Lord said that unless we are like little children, we shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. We do not really have take a lengthy study on the subject in order to make some sense of it. I take the Archbishop Lefebvre view, who said many times that the Crisis is a mystery, and that he didn't have all of the answers. Do we really need all of the answers in order to please God? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6146/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #6 on: November 15, 2024, 11:10:02 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ... since the Church has not directly ever addressed about how to deal with this type of situation.
    Pope Paul IV addressed it in cuм ex where he says:
    "The Roman Pontiff....who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted."

    ^^This is R&R.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12946
    • Reputation: +8532/-1612
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #7 on: November 15, 2024, 11:18:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope Paul IV addressed it in cuм ex where he says:
    "The Roman Pontiff....who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted."

    ^^This is R&R.

    Having read it, you must intentionally be concealing the gravamen of cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio:

    “In addition, that if ever at any time it shall appear that any… Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church… or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy: (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless…those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.”
    Pope Paul IV, cuм ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559, §6 (Roman Bullarium Vol. IV. Sec. I, pp. 354-357)


    ^^This is NOT R&R!


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Reputation: +3468/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #8 on: November 15, 2024, 11:21:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope Paul IV addressed it in cuм ex where he says:
    "The Roman Pontiff....who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted."

    ^^This is R&R.

    I suppose that "having deviated from the faith" could be the same thing as outright heresy. I would have preferred that the word "heresy" be used in the above quote, so as to make it crystal clear. Just my opinion. There's a lack of precise terminology too, when the sedevacantists try to fit Church teaching into a sedevacantist paradigm. It's never direct, and therefore doesn't quite work. But....to each his own. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6146/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #9 on: November 15, 2024, 11:40:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I suppose that "having deviated from the faith" could be the same thing as outright heresy. I would have preferred that the word "heresy" be used in the above quote, so as to make it crystal clear. Just my opinion. There's a lack of precise terminology too, when the sedevacantists try to fit Church teaching into a sedevacantist paradigm. It's never direct, and therefore doesn't quite work. But....to each his own.
    One who is a heretic has deviated from the faith, but, the issue is that the sedes do not see the words: "who may judge all and be judged by none in this world."

    When those words are obeyed and applied as the pope directed us, the quote I posted is what R&R practices in a nutshell. When those words are ignored or disobeyed, it's sedeism, where literally anyone and everyone can decide the popes' status.   
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6146/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2024, 11:49:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Having read it, you must intentionally be concealing the gravamen of cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio:.....
    And you must intentionally be disobeying the directive given to us by pope Paul IV.

    You do realize that the beginning of the first paragraph of cuм ex is all about heretic popes, don't you? He is saying that, because he cannot be judged by anyone in this world, there is nothing anyone can do about a heretic pope but we can contradict him, i.e. not do what he says.

    1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought
    that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff, who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fulness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted...
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6146/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #11 on: November 15, 2024, 12:23:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Yes, I am familiar - I use to hold the R&R. Most people who are SVs pass through that way. You make a good point that the term "deviate" should be stronger. Because he could have easily been referencing such an episode as John XXII and all that transpired in that case i.e., private opinion, not yet defined as dogma, etc.
    Well, Pope Paul IV's direction applies when the pope deviates from the faith, all the more when he is a raging heretic - he is to be contradicted - - the greater the danger, the more he is to be contradicted.

    In this paragraph of cuм ex, Pope Paul IV confirms 2 things; 1) that it is possible that a pope can be a heretic - and 2) what we are to do about it.

    Nowhere in cuм ex or any other Church teaching are we told that we may decide his status as being illegitimate, then act as if that decision (judgement) were the fact.

    The statement made by the pope in cuм ex as quoted by Mark79 can only mean that we are not to listen to him, we don't do what he wants us to do - he said we may contradict him, not dethrone him.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6146/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2024, 01:08:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You may choose to read it that way - I will not dispute it. I guess we will just have to wait a little bit longer to find out Paul IV's exact sense of that choice of wording. I could counter, to say one has deviated from their course does not imply shipwreck. But heresy is full-on shipwreck. The pope personally may deviate from the faith (occult). But if he were to steer the baroque into the shoals and crash it (public) - then you would have Christ leading us all to damnation.
    I choose to read it in the same sense that he wrote it. He is quite explicit and clear throughout the entire docuмent, except for this paragraph? No. I quoted the pope describing R&R which is the directive he gave.

    And no, the pope is not Christ, and the pope only leads those to damnation who want to follow him there. Nobody, but nobody (you  can reference yourself as an example), can be led to where they do not already want to go, plus it is so much easier to simply follow the wolves. The degree of culpability of the masses who follow may be less, but God does not permit us to be mindless in this world. If all the faithful would have followed the example of the pioneering trads in the 60s, the devil would have had to concoct some other means for this crisis.

    Quote
    But I would only add - at least for myself - that I have no power to judge anyone. I can only judge their actions/beliefs. In the case of the principle I am using, it is not me who has "dethroned" anyone, but rather God and I am merely witness to this fact which has been made known to me by their manifest and public heresy.
    This is the common sede pillar, i.e. that he was dethroned by God, but the fact is that all the cardinals in the conclave(s) elected and accepts them as popes, and on that account we must also. God did not give us a choice in this matter, that's why there are cardinals. We witness his heresies and obey Pope Paul IV's instructions about what we are to do when the pope is a heretic and we can save our souls, because that is the direction a pope gave us to follow. That is the teaching of the Church telling us the only thing that we can do about heretic popes.

    Quote
    What do you think of Stickland's rebuke anyway and what is next for him?
    Time will tell, but if the bishop is sincere he will absolutely be expelled from his office the same way as +Vigano and the multitude of priests and bishops before him. Until then, for me, he is not with us yet, still against us.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47066
    • Reputation: +27894/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2024, 03:42:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Having read it, you must intentionally be concealing the gravamen of cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio:

    “In addition, that if ever at any time it shall appear that any… Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church… or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy: (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless…those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.”
    Pope Paul IV, cuм ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559, §6 (Roman Bullarium Vol. IV. Sec. I, pp. 354-357)


    ^^This is NOT R&R!

    Yes, I had thi same debate with him earlier.  This is a first for R&R, to claim that cuм ex supports R&R.  :laugh1: :laugh2:  We used to hear all the time that CEA is a disciplinary rather than doctrinal docuмent, but this is a good one.

    What the "judging" question refers to is a statement by Pope Innocent where he states that a Pope cannot be judged, except that a heretic Pope could be judged, or, rather held to have already been judged by God.

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5059
    • Reputation: +1984/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is Strickland waking up?
    « Reply #14 on: November 15, 2024, 08:38:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Could you explain a little more about how you view the situation in Strickland's context. I take it you think of him as a legitimate bishop. You mention him being expelled from his office but did that not already happen when he was replaced in Tyler TX.? Vigano was declared in schism and excommunicated but was already retired from any offices he held if I am remembering correctly. So, I think Laughton has it right that the next step for him would be "laicization", because they cannot actually hit him the same as Vigano (excommunication) who has denied both Vatican II as legitimate and Francis as being pope. Strickland has done neither. He seems to think the pope can be an apostate/heretic and many of the bishops can be heretics while still retaining their offices, which is the practical mindset of R&R.

    From Strickland's Letter,

    "I think that St. Jude had men such as many of you in mind when he described men who feast “together without fear, feeding themselves, clouds without water, which are carried about by winds, trees of the autumn, unfruitful, twice dead, plucked up by the roots, raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own confusion; wandering stars…” (Jude 1:12-13)."

    From the Haydock Commentary:

    Ver. 12-13. These are spots in their banquets; (see 2 Pet. ii. 13.) in which they commit unheard of abominations, twice dead, which signifies no more than quite dead, clouds without water, &c. All these metaphors are to represent the corrupt manners of these heretics. Wi.

    Oddly, if he had read the commentary for the preceding verse he would have seen,

    Ver. 11. They have imitated, or gone in the way of Cain, who murdered his brother; and they have a mortal hatred against the faithful. They have imitated Balaam[8] and his covetousness, (see 2 Peter ii. 15.) and Core, (Num. xvi.) who with others opposed Moses; and as these sinners perished, so will they. Wi. — Way, &c. Heretics follow the way of Cain, by murdering the souls of their brethren; the way of Balaam by putting a scandal before the people of God, for their own private ends; and the way of Core or Korah, by their opposition to the church governors of divine appointment. Ch.




    Laicization would be a pretty drastic step to take in the case of a bishop, especially one who has not come right out and done something occasioning this (such as McCarrick's misdeeds).  And they didn't laicize Vigano.