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Author Topic: Francis saw his demons  (Read 4342 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Francis saw his demons
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2025, 01:31:01 PM »
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  • Whether a heretic/joo/pagan converts or not, they will still have to pay for their sins, as will we all.  We will pay for them either in hell or purgatory. 

    I’ve heard some Trads express the idea they were “fine” if so-and-so heretic didn’t convert because they needed to be punished for crimes against the Church.  But this is a horrendous error.  Even if they convert (which is what God desires), their punishment will remain, in purgatory.  Nobody can hide from God's justice.  And any crimes they committed against the Church are 1) allowed by God and 2) are only temporary since the Church is of Divine origin. 

    We should all guard against over/zealousness against sinners and “pious revenge” against heretics.  These are not catholic ideals.  And can lead to bitterness, anger and loss of faith.  Very dangerous.

    Agreed, with some reservations.  

    Many recall the lesson of St. Benedict’s monastic rival who attempted to murder the Saint and derail his apostolate. He died in a balcony collapse. St. Benedict severely admonished one of his monks for exulting inthe death of such an adversary.

    Then again, it is a relief for the Church and God’s Providence, when a bad pope dies.

    As in the case of anti-Pope Anacletus II.  He croaked from a heart attack after a Catholic alliance army had surrounded Vatican City, with the purpose to “end the schism”. So said St. Bernard Clairvaux. 

    That was near the “high point” of the Catholic Church but now She suffers from ecclesiastical masonry as never before.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #16 on: April 22, 2025, 01:42:43 PM »
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  • Bergoglio was kind of creature that if your daughter was raped and had her throat cut by 3rd world invader...
    that he welcomed and encouraged in...would admonish you for not letting even more in your country.
    So, it wasn't that he just wanted to pervert your faith, he and his buddies wanted to see you and your folk to suffer horribly and die.
    And I'll bet it never bothered his conscience one tiny bit.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #17 on: April 22, 2025, 02:06:25 PM »
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  • Bergoglio was kind of creature that if your daughter was raped and had her throat cut by 3rd world invader...
    that he welcomed and encouraged in...would admonish you for not letting even more in your country.
    So, it wasn't that he just wanted to pervert your faith, he and his buddies wanted to see you and your folk to suffer horribly and die.
    And I'll bet it never bothered his conscience one tiny bit.
    What’s your point?  He lived an evil life.  We all know this.  Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy.  Nor does it mean that God gave up on him.  

    The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men.  But we don’t fight them to send them to hell.  We fight their evils and hope they repent.  

    When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”.  We don’t win when they are damned. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #18 on: April 22, 2025, 02:38:02 PM »
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  • Agreed, with some reservations. 

    That's why I said ... it's a balance.  I just want to point out, however, that just because Bergoglio has died does not by any stretch mean that the Church's tribulation is over.  In fact, I fully expect worse ... even if it's of the deceptive variety, where they roll out a "conservative".

    Now, if a Traditional Catholic were elected, then we'd have cause to rejoice in the departure of Bergoglio from the Office, but even then not his death and damnation.  That could have been accomplished equally well if he had been incapacitated (giving him time to repent).

    So even though there MIGHT be some improvement in the Church's situation, we welcome the improvement rather than the death of Bergoglio, but I for one believe that there will be no improvement with this upcoming Conclave.

    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #19 on: April 22, 2025, 03:27:36 PM »
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  • What’s your point?  He lived an evil life.  We all know this.  Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy.  Nor does it mean that God gave up on him. 

    The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men.  But we don’t fight them to send them to hell.  We fight their evils and hope they repent. 

    When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”.  We don’t win when they are damned.
    My point is to make it clear to whomever stumbles upon this forum what kind of people occupy the Vatican hierarchy.  
    Now if someone told your kid to go play in the park and that very same person set up bear traps for them to step into that would mangle their legs you would want to warn others what this person's intentions are. Even if that person is beloved by the community, thought of as kind, humble, compassionate...and all the other praise they are heaping on Bergoglio. 
    Too many conservative Catholics and Trads tip toe around the diabolical intentions of people like Bergoglio. 
    As if they are just misguided progressives that really really mean well but took a wrong turn theologically.
    Well, now we're seeing the full blossoming of what cultural marxists have had in store for us all along in places like
    Colorado, where once they seize control they don't waste anytime trying to turn your 5 year old kid into a tranny or homo. 
    So Pax, you can't fight evil unless you recognize evil and are willing to call out evil. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #20 on: April 22, 2025, 03:43:30 PM »
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  • My point is to make it clear to whomever stumbles upon this forum what kind of people occupy the Vatican hierarchy. 
    Now if someone told your kid to go play in the park and that very same person set up bear traps for them to step into that would mangle their legs you would want to warn others what this person's intentions are. Even if that person is beloved by the community, thought of as kind, humble, compassionate...and all the other praise they are heaping on Bergoglio.
    Too many conservative Catholics and Trads tip toe around the diabolical intentions of people like Bergoglio.
    As if they are just misguided progressives that really really mean well but took a wrong turn theologically.
    Well, now we're seeing the full blossoming of what cultural marxists have had in store for us all along in places like
    Colorado, where once they seize control they don't waste anytime trying to turn your 5 year old kid into a tranny or homo.
    So Pax, you can't fight evil unless you recognize evil and are willing to call out evil.
    Ok.  In the context of God’s mercy and the salvation of sinners, your comments are off topic.  I get the purpose of your comments…now that you explained it.

    Offline Clare67

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #21 on: April 22, 2025, 06:18:08 PM »
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  • What’s your point?  He lived an evil life.  We all know this.  Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy.  Nor does it mean that God gave up on him. 

    The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men.  But we don’t fight them to send them to hell.  We fight their evils and hope they repent. 

    When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”.  We don’t win when they are damned.
    Excellent post.  I would give it 55,000 + thumbs up but for some reason I can't thumb up anybody's posts.  Not sure why. 
    Nevertheless, excellent post, Pax Vobis!  Excellent post!  

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #22 on: April 22, 2025, 07:04:43 PM »
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  • …Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy.  Nor does it mean that God gave up on him. :

    I see nobody here who even remotely suggested that Jorge was "beyond God's mercy" or that "God gave up on him."

    So why would you introduce such a baseless de novo straw man?



    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #23 on: April 22, 2025, 07:32:28 PM »
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  • I see nobody here who even remotely suggested that Jorge was "beyond God's mercy" or that "God gave up on him."

    So why would you introduce such a baseless de novo straw man?
    Thank you. 
    I never suggested Jorge or any other luciferian was beyond God's mercy. The reality was he was near death for weeks, if not months. He had ample time to reflect on his life and misdeeds. He also knew the requirements for salvation unlike so many tens of millions of heathen Chinese, Hindus, and Muslims blindly stumbling through life. That's a grace not many people receive, especially if the sweet angel of death comes unexpectedly in a car crash, brain hemorrhage, random drive by shooting, etc.
    Additionally he had millions of people offering prayers in his behalf, something very few people have the benefit of.
    Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement. 
    Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #24 on: April 22, 2025, 08:11:37 PM »
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  • Thank you.
    I never suggested Jorge or any other luciferian was beyond God's mercy. The reality was he was near death for weeks, if not months. He had ample time to reflect on his life and misdeeds. He also knew the requirements for salvation unlike so many tens of millions of heathen Chinese, Hindus, and Muslims blindly stumbling through life. That's a grace not many people receive, especially if the sweet angel of death comes unexpectedly in a car crash, brain hemorrhage, random drive by shooting, etc.
    Additionally he had millions of people offering prayers in his behalf, something very few people have the benefit of.
    Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
    Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream


    Growth in Holiness: Conversion from Sin in Spiritual Theology
    by Jordan Aumann O.P
    http://www.domcentral.org/study/aumann/st/st07.htm

    In general we can distinguish four classes of sinners, and it is well for confessors and preachers to be aware of the differences so that they can use the methods best suited to lead these sinners to conversion. The first type sins because of ignorance. We are not referring to a total and invincible ignorance, which would excuse entirely from sin, but to the ignorance that results from a completely indifferent education or from an environment that is devoid of religious influence. Those who live in such surroundings usually have some awareness of the malice of sin. They are conscious of the fact that certain actions are not morally right, and from time to time they even feel a certain remorse. In any case, they are capable of committing deliberate mortal sin.

    At the same time the responsibility of such persons before God is greatly lessened. If they have an aversion to that which seems unjust or sinful to them; if, in spite of external influences, they have remained basically upright; and if, especially at the hour of death, they raise their heart to God, full of remorse and confident in his mercy, there is no doubt that they will be judged with mercy at the divine tribunal. If Christ advises us that much more will be asked of those to whom much has been given (Luke 12:48), it is reasonable to think that less will be asked of those who have received little.

    Souls such as these often turn to God with comparative readiness if the opportunity presents itself. Since their careless life did not proceed from true malice, but from ignorance, any situation that makes a strong impression on the soul and causes it to enter in upon itself may suffice to cause them to turn to God. The death of a member of the family, a sermon heard at a mission, the introduction to a religious environment, often suffices to lead such souls to the right path. The priest charged with their care should conscientiously complete their religious formation lest they return to their former state.

    The second type of sinners comprises those who are weak, lacking in will power, strongly inclined to sensual pleasure, intellectually dull, listless, or cowardly. They lament their faults, they admire good people anc[ would like to be one of them, but they lack the courage and energy to be so in reality. These dispositions do not excuse them from sin; on the contrary, they are more culpable than those who sin through ignorance, because they sin with a greater knowledge. But basically they are weak rather than evil. The person in charge of their spiritual welfare should be especially concerned with strengthening them in their good resolutions, leading them to the frequent reception of the sacraments, to reflection, and avoidance of the occasions of sin.

    The third type of sinners are those who sin with cold indifference, without remorse of conscience, silencing the faint voice of conscience in order to continue their life of sin without reproach. They do not want to give up their sin and are not concerned that their conduct offends God.

    The conversion of these persons is very difficult. Their constant infidelity to the inspirations of grace, their indifference to the basic norms of morality, their systematic disdain for the advice given them by those who wish to help them-all this hardens their hearts to such an extent that it would require a veritable miracle of grace for them to return to the right path.

    Perhaps the most efficacious means .of leading them back to God would be to encourage them to practice certain spiritual exercises with a group of persons of the same profession or social condition as themselves; for example, to make a retreat, a parish mission, or a cursillo. It is not unusual for this type of person to try some spiritual exercise out of curiosity, especially if it is suggested in a friendly manner, and it frequently happens that a great grace from God awaits them there. At times astounding conversions are effected, radical changes of life, and the beginning of a life of piety and fervor in persons who formerly lived completely forgetful of God. The priest who has the good fortune to be the instrument of, such divine mercy should watch over the convert and by means of a wise and prudent direction try to assure the definitive and permanent return to God.

    The fourth class of sinners is the most culpable. These people sin through a refined malice and diabolical obstinacy. They may have begun as good Christians, but little by little they degenerated, yielding more and more to evil until their souls were definitively conquered. Then came the inevitable consequence of defection and apostasy. The last barriers have been broken, and now these people are susceptible to every kind of moral disorder. They attack religion and the Church and may even join a non-Catholic sect and propagate its doctrines with zeal and ardor. One such person deliberately closed the door to any possibility of a return to God by saying to his friends and relatives: "If at the hour of death I ask for a priest to hear my confession, do not bring him, because I shall be delirious."

    It is useless to try to win these people by persuasion or advice. It will make no impression on them and may even produce contrary effects. The only method to be used is strictly supernatural: prayer, fasting, constant recourse to the Blessed Virgin. Their conversion requires a special grace from God, and God does not always grant the grace, in spite of many prayers and supplications. It is as if these sinners had exhausted the patience of God and are destined to be for all eternity the living testimony of rigorous divine justice, because they have abused divine mercy.

    We conclude with a statement by St. Teresa on the gravity of mortal sin:

        I once heard a spiritual man say that he was not so much astonished at the things done by a soul in mortal sin as at the things not done by it. May God, in his mercy, deliver us from such great evil, for there is nothing in the whole of our lives that so thoroughly deserves to be called evil as this, since it brings endless and eternal evils in its train. [St. Teresa, The Interior Castle, trans. E. Allison Peers (New York: Sheed & Ward, 1946), First Mansions, Chap. 2.]


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #25 on: April 22, 2025, 10:43:42 PM »
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  • Quote
    Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement. 

    Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream
    There’s no way for you to know this.  You’re just making baseless accusations.  It’s like you WANT him to be damned.  :facepalm:


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #26 on: April 22, 2025, 10:51:59 PM »
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  • He had to be sedated after seeing a portal of Hell at the foot of his bed.
    You DO know this is a parody news company, right?  Their headlines:

    "Statue Of Liberty Seen Walking Back To France", "Earth Furious It Wasn't Invited To Planetary Parade", "Tripping Kids Who Run Around Restaurants To Be Made Legal"
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #27 on: April 23, 2025, 12:07:49 AM »
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  • Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
    Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream

    I agree with Pax ... you're in absolutely no position to make such assertions.  So you saw him in the 60 seconds that he appeared on the balcony on Easter Sunday and that provided enough data to arrive at such conclusions?  Nearly 24 hours passed between then and when he finally expired, and much can happen between God and a soul within mere seconds, much less in 24 hours.  While such dramatic changes in the final moments are exceedingly rare, with God all things are possible.  I don't recall whether it was St. John Vianney or Padre Pio who mentioned that an individual persumed lost due to ѕυιcιdє had actually repented during those final seconds.  And if God did not provide efficacious grace for such a conversion before his final moments, perhaps it was because God willed to allow the damage he was doing to the Church, and also the fact that Berogoglio had been unwittingly unmasking the true nature of the Conciliar Church that Wojtyla and Ratzinger had done a great job obscuring and misdirecting people away from.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #28 on: April 23, 2025, 12:10:13 AM »
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  • There’s no way for you to know this.  You’re just making baseless accusations.  It’s like you WANT him to be damned.  :facepalm:

    Yes, it's not difficult to detect it, where some have crossed the line into relishing the thought of his damnation.  That's where the devil goes after Traditional Catholics, drawing us into that bitter zeal.

    It's similar to the case of a cruel serial killer, where the mobs are calling for and relishing the thought of his burning in Hell ... whereas that's contrary to the mind and heart of God and the teaching of Our Lord.  Yes, what he did was terrible, and indeed he should be executed for it ... not only to prevent any future harm either by that individual or others who might be deterred by his punishment, but also to carry out justice, where any lesser punishment would devalue the lives of his vicitims.  At the same time, however, we desire his conversion and salvation.  That is why it was customary even in the legal system, even while condeming someone to deaht, to also invokd God's mercy upon their souls.  "You are condemned to death.  May God have mercy on your soul."  And the legal system offered to provide a priest (or some other non-Catholic clergy for non-Catholics) to attend them in their final hours.

    Probably the easiest way to understand this and to forgive and to not hold grudges is to realize that God is in control of everything.  Even if a serial killer took the life of someone in our family, it was ultimately God who willed that the person should die that way.  God could just as easily have taken the vicim by a serious accident or sudden-onset health event (heart attack, stroke, etc.)  Or God could easily have thwarted the designs of the killer.

    Finally, if we stop and think ... if I had been born with Jorge Bergoglio's genes, into his family and culture, had experienced everything he did during his life, would I have ended up any different?  Those of us who know our own sinfulness would conclude that we would not have, but would likely have been even worse.  Studies have been conducted on identical twins separated at birth, and they very often ended up leading remarkably similar lives, going into the same profession, marrying strikingly similar spouses, etc.

    So, but for the grace of God go we where Jorge Bergogio went.  Jorge was someone's child.  Imagine that it was your child who ended up where Jorge did.  While deploring his evils, would you not have spent every last minute of your life begging God's mercy for him and the gift of salvation?

    Offline drphil

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #29 on: April 23, 2025, 12:16:04 AM »
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  • Excellent post.  I would give it 55,000 + thumbs up but for some reason I can't thumb up anybody's posts.  Not sure why. 
    Nevertheless, excellent post, Pax Vobis!  Excellent post! 
    I cannot thumb up or down, either. Perhaps it's because my account is fairly new.