Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Incredulous on April 22, 2025, 07:34:11 AM
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Francis screams at his demons while hospitalized (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=70XZ__44CEc)
He had to be sedated after seeing a portal of Hell at the foot of his bed.
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:facepalm:
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The man used the highest position in the Church to publicly spout heresies and blasphemies almost weekly for 12 years, not to mention all the evil things he was doing covertly.
In the course of my life I have never met an individual who was that committed to something with such a single minded purpose, whether it was pursuing money, women, or other worldly pleasures. And I've known some very hedonistic people.
Bergoglio and his predecessors were indeed cut from a different cloth. It takes a unique psychopathy to be a lifetime actor. Actors they were, posing as men of faith while doing everything possible to undermine the faith of others.
I simply have no explanation for what would drive such a person beyond demonic possession.
The truly bizarre thing is that there's a college of cardinals vying to for the chance to do the same exact thing.
Now the likelihood of such a person saying "oopsie, my bad" in their last hours is practically ZERO
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Many priests and end of care workers will testify to the fact that VERY FEW people have death bed conversions. More likely they entrench into their positions stubbornly, and refuse all offers of repentance. And people who are gravely ill probably can't make signs of repentance even if they wanted to. The Sinners Guide by Ven Louis of Grenada cautions against deferring conversion until death because of pride or despair the sinner will refuse.
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Many priests and end of care workers will testify to the fact that VERY FEW people have death bed conversions. More likely they entrench into their positions stubbornly, and refuse all offers of repentance. And people who are gravely ill probably can't make signs of repentance even if they wanted to. The Sinners Guide by Ven Louis of Grenada cautions against deferring conversion until death because of pride or despair the sinner will refuse.
This is very true and I have personally witnessed this with several relatives. I recently pointed out to a novus ordite a couple of Bergoglio's more egregious heresies and they just defaulted to the "gates of hell shall not prevail" cope to dismiss or sidestep all the errors of VII. Now if these people are so obstinate and willfully blind to the truth while they are in full possession of their faculties, how can you expect them to see the light of reason in their final moments as they are full of painkillers, disoriented, confused, sedated, fearful?
Covid is another example, the boomers went all in on getting vaxxed to the hilt. Lots of them probably regret it, especially after suffering from all sorts of side effects, but very very few will admit to being wrong...or being fooled by Captain Warpspeed. It comes down to pride, always pride.
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Francis screams at his demons while hospitalized (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=70XZ__44CEc)
He had to be sedated after seeing a portal of Hell at the foot of his bed.
Emotionalism is in full force these days....
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Many priests and end of care workers will testify to the fact that VERY FEW people have death bed conversions. More likely they entrench into their positions stubbornly, and refuse all offers of repentance. And people who are gravely ill probably can't make signs of repentance even if they wanted to. The Sinners Guide by Ven Louis of Grenada cautions against deferring conversion until death because of pride or despair the sinner will refuse.
I have noticed that, at least in males, this tends to "harden" at about 70 years of age. They wear their apostasy as a badge of honor.
It's anecdotal, to be sure, but it's there.
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"Waterford Whispers" seems to be kind of like an Irish version of The Onion.
Still, though, why they would make such a video is not easy to understand. It certainly has no comic merit.
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Emotionalism is in full force these days....
Granted this story could be a hack, but it fits the storyline of what many hospital personnel have observed over hundreds of years.
As far as Jєωιѕн conversions go, and I do think Bergolio was one of them, few are sincere.
They for sure are not what is jokingly called, “ Full Bobby Fischer” conversions.
But it one rare instance in 2003, I heard a jewess personally testify that she converted only after seeing a demonic series of events in her and her boyfriend’s home. This realization of manifest evil made her want to get Baptized, which she did, by Father Cooper.
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“He Will Have to Account for the Crimes He Has Committed” – Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò Publishes Scathing Response to News of Pope Francis’s Death
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/04/he-will-have-account-crimes-he-has-committed/
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Whether a heretic/joo/pagan converts or not, they will still have to pay for their sins, as will we all. We will pay for them either in hell or purgatory.
I’ve heard some Trads express the idea they were “fine” if so-and-so heretic didn’t convert because they needed to be punished for crimes against the Church. But this is a horrendous error. Even if they convert (which is what God desires), their punishment will remain, in purgatory. Nobody can hide from God's justice. And any crimes they committed against the Church are 1) allowed by God and 2) are only temporary since the Church is of Divine origin.
We should all guard against over/zealousness against sinners and “pious revenge” against heretics. These are not catholic ideals. And can lead to bitterness, anger and loss of faith. Very dangerous.
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This is very true and I have personally witnessed this with several relatives. I recently pointed out to a novus ordite a couple of Bergoglio's more egregious heresies and they just defaulted to the "gates of hell shall not prevail" cope to dismiss or sidestep all the errors of VII. Now if these people are so obstinate and willfully blind to the truth while they are in full possession of their faculties, how can you expect them to see the light of reason in their final moments as they are full of painkillers, disoriented, confused, sedated, fearful?
Covid is another example, the boomers went all in on getting vaxxed to the hilt. Lots of them probably regret it, especially after suffering from all sorts of side effects, but very very few will admit to being wrong...or being fooled by Captain Warpspeed. It comes down to pride, always pride.
And that's not even the worst of it. Fallen away Catholics who REFUSE communion* from visiting priests is not uncommon, with a "I'm good" demurral.
*Not referring to those who refuse based on doubts of validity.
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We should all guard against over/zealousness against sinners and “pious revenge” against heretics. These are not catholic ideals. And can lead to bitterness, anger and loss of faith. Very dangerous.
You're right. There'a balance to be had between the two false extremes. On the one hand, it's wrong to gloss over, minimize, and effectively condone the gravity of all that Bergoglio did to harm and destroy the faith ... and on the other extreme the bitter zeal wherein one can sense almost a sick pleasure in the thought of Bergoglio burning in Hell. If I had to pick which one is worse, however, it would actually be the latter IMO. But all this talk of "well, he's died now, so we should only say good things about him" ... that's also a grave error because it condones and minimizes his crimes as if they had been "no big deal".
Let's say someone who died who had been a serial adulterer and/or fornicator ... perhaps having abandoned a half dozen "wives" and dozens of children. "Well, he was a super nice guy, very kind, generous to the poor." Highly inappropriate, since it gives the impression that these qualities offset his very real sins. At best one might not bring them up and just tell his relatives, "I'm sorry for your loss." ... but it's very wrong to start praising such a guy. And the same thing holds of Bergoglio.
I wonder why so few people can find the right balance between erroneous extremes.
Bergoglio did some terrible things that we must not minimize, but at the same time we don't wish damnation on anyone, and God wills the salvation of all souls. I do think it likely that he did not save his soul (though I do pray that in the past he received the grace and light of conversion and repentance), but I still feel sorry for the poor fool.
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Friendship with the world is enmity with Christ.
When you have garbage celebrities and heads of state falling over themselves to praise you
that means you're part of the club...their club.
I saw that first hand when "Cardinal" Bernadin died in Chicago. You had secular people
who had never darkened the doorstep of a Catholic church singing his praises in endless
newspaper columns and on the tv. There was an implicit understanding that he was on
their side.
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Friendship with the world is enmity with Christ.
When you have garbage celebrities and heads of state falling over themselves to praise you
that means you're part of the club...their club.
I saw that first hand when "Cardinal" Bernadin died in Chicago. You had secular people
who had never darkened the doorstep of a Catholic church singing his praises in endless
newspaper columns and on the tv. There was an implicit understanding that he was on
their side.
There is no doubt that Francis was on the wrong side. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have converted. Gods grace is more powerful than every evil person/demon ever created.
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Whether a heretic/joo/pagan converts or not, they will still have to pay for their sins, as will we all. We will pay for them either in hell or purgatory.
I’ve heard some Trads express the idea they were “fine” if so-and-so heretic didn’t convert because they needed to be punished for crimes against the Church. But this is a horrendous error. Even if they convert (which is what God desires), their punishment will remain, in purgatory. Nobody can hide from God's justice. And any crimes they committed against the Church are 1) allowed by God and 2) are only temporary since the Church is of Divine origin.
We should all guard against over/zealousness against sinners and “pious revenge” against heretics. These are not catholic ideals. And can lead to bitterness, anger and loss of faith. Very dangerous.
Agreed, with some reservations.
Many recall the lesson of St. Benedict’s monastic rival who attempted to murder the Saint and derail his apostolate. He died in a balcony collapse. St. Benedict severely admonished one of his monks for exulting inthe death of such an adversary.
Then again, it is a relief for the Church and God’s Providence, when a bad pope dies.
As in the case of anti-Pope Anacletus II. He croaked from a heart attack after a Catholic alliance army had surrounded Vatican City, with the purpose to “end the schism”. So said St. Bernard Clairvaux.
That was near the “high point” of the Catholic Church but now She suffers from ecclesiastical masonry as never before.
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Bergoglio was kind of creature that if your daughter was raped and had her throat cut by 3rd world invader...
that he welcomed and encouraged in...would admonish you for not letting even more in your country.
So, it wasn't that he just wanted to pervert your faith, he and his buddies wanted to see you and your folk to suffer horribly and die.
And I'll bet it never bothered his conscience one tiny bit.
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Bergoglio was kind of creature that if your daughter was raped and had her throat cut by 3rd world invader...
that he welcomed and encouraged in...would admonish you for not letting even more in your country.
So, it wasn't that he just wanted to pervert your faith, he and his buddies wanted to see you and your folk to suffer horribly and die.
And I'll bet it never bothered his conscience one tiny bit.
What’s your point? He lived an evil life. We all know this. Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy. Nor does it mean that God gave up on him.
The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men. But we don’t fight them to send them to hell. We fight their evils and hope they repent.
When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”. We don’t win when they are damned.
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Agreed, with some reservations.
That's why I said ... it's a balance. I just want to point out, however, that just because Bergoglio has died does not by any stretch mean that the Church's tribulation is over. In fact, I fully expect worse ... even if it's of the deceptive variety, where they roll out a "conservative".
Now, if a Traditional Catholic were elected, then we'd have cause to rejoice in the departure of Bergoglio from the Office, but even then not his death and damnation. That could have been accomplished equally well if he had been incapacitated (giving him time to repent).
So even though there MIGHT be some improvement in the Church's situation, we welcome the improvement rather than the death of Bergoglio, but I for one believe that there will be no improvement with this upcoming Conclave.
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What’s your point? He lived an evil life. We all know this. Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy. Nor does it mean that God gave up on him.
The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men. But we don’t fight them to send them to hell. We fight their evils and hope they repent.
When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”. We don’t win when they are damned.
My point is to make it clear to whomever stumbles upon this forum what kind of people occupy the Vatican hierarchy.
Now if someone told your kid to go play in the park and that very same person set up bear traps for them to step into that would mangle their legs you would want to warn others what this person's intentions are. Even if that person is beloved by the community, thought of as kind, humble, compassionate...and all the other praise they are heaping on Bergoglio.
Too many conservative Catholics and Trads tip toe around the diabolical intentions of people like Bergoglio.
As if they are just misguided progressives that really really mean well but took a wrong turn theologically.
Well, now we're seeing the full blossoming of what cultural marxists have had in store for us all along in places like
Colorado, where once they seize control they don't waste anytime trying to turn your 5 year old kid into a tranny or homo.
So Pax, you can't fight evil unless you recognize evil and are willing to call out evil.
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My point is to make it clear to whomever stumbles upon this forum what kind of people occupy the Vatican hierarchy.
Now if someone told your kid to go play in the park and that very same person set up bear traps for them to step into that would mangle their legs you would want to warn others what this person's intentions are. Even if that person is beloved by the community, thought of as kind, humble, compassionate...and all the other praise they are heaping on Bergoglio.
Too many conservative Catholics and Trads tip toe around the diabolical intentions of people like Bergoglio.
As if they are just misguided progressives that really really mean well but took a wrong turn theologically.
Well, now we're seeing the full blossoming of what cultural marxists have had in store for us all along in places like
Colorado, where once they seize control they don't waste anytime trying to turn your 5 year old kid into a tranny or homo.
So Pax, you can't fight evil unless you recognize evil and are willing to call out evil.
Ok. In the context of God’s mercy and the salvation of sinners, your comments are off topic. I get the purpose of your comments…now that you explained it.
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What’s your point? He lived an evil life. We all know this. Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy. Nor does it mean that God gave up on him.
The church militant (ie catholics on earth) are fighting “principalities and powers” and evil men. But we don’t fight them to send them to hell. We fight their evils and hope they repent.
When an evil person repents, the Church militant “wins”. We don’t win when they are damned.
Excellent post. I would give it 55,000 + thumbs up but for some reason I can't thumb up anybody's posts. Not sure why.
Nevertheless, excellent post, Pax Vobis! Excellent post!
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…Doesn’t mean he was beyond God’s mercy. Nor does it mean that God gave up on him. :
I see nobody here who even remotely suggested that Jorge was "beyond God's mercy" or that "God gave up on him."
So why would you introduce such a baseless de novo straw man?
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I see nobody here who even remotely suggested that Jorge was "beyond God's mercy" or that "God gave up on him."
So why would you introduce such a baseless de novo straw man?
Thank you.
I never suggested Jorge or any other luciferian was beyond God's mercy. The reality was he was near death for weeks, if not months. He had ample time to reflect on his life and misdeeds. He also knew the requirements for salvation unlike so many tens of millions of heathen Chinese, Hindus, and Muslims blindly stumbling through life. That's a grace not many people receive, especially if the sweet angel of death comes unexpectedly in a car crash, brain hemorrhage, random drive by shooting, etc.
Additionally he had millions of people offering prayers in his behalf, something very few people have the benefit of.
Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream
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Thank you.
I never suggested Jorge or any other luciferian was beyond God's mercy. The reality was he was near death for weeks, if not months. He had ample time to reflect on his life and misdeeds. He also knew the requirements for salvation unlike so many tens of millions of heathen Chinese, Hindus, and Muslims blindly stumbling through life. That's a grace not many people receive, especially if the sweet angel of death comes unexpectedly in a car crash, brain hemorrhage, random drive by shooting, etc.
Additionally he had millions of people offering prayers in his behalf, something very few people have the benefit of.
Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream
Growth in Holiness: Conversion from Sin in Spiritual Theology
by Jordan Aumann O.P
http://www.domcentral.org/study/aumann/st/st07.htm
In general we can distinguish four classes of sinners, and it is well for confessors and preachers to be aware of the differences so that they can use the methods best suited to lead these sinners to conversion. The first type sins because of ignorance. We are not referring to a total and invincible ignorance, which would excuse entirely from sin, but to the ignorance that results from a completely indifferent education or from an environment that is devoid of religious influence. Those who live in such surroundings usually have some awareness of the malice of sin. They are conscious of the fact that certain actions are not morally right, and from time to time they even feel a certain remorse. In any case, they are capable of committing deliberate mortal sin.
At the same time the responsibility of such persons before God is greatly lessened. If they have an aversion to that which seems unjust or sinful to them; if, in spite of external influences, they have remained basically upright; and if, especially at the hour of death, they raise their heart to God, full of remorse and confident in his mercy, there is no doubt that they will be judged with mercy at the divine tribunal. If Christ advises us that much more will be asked of those to whom much has been given (Luke 12:48), it is reasonable to think that less will be asked of those who have received little.
Souls such as these often turn to God with comparative readiness if the opportunity presents itself. Since their careless life did not proceed from true malice, but from ignorance, any situation that makes a strong impression on the soul and causes it to enter in upon itself may suffice to cause them to turn to God. The death of a member of the family, a sermon heard at a mission, the introduction to a religious environment, often suffices to lead such souls to the right path. The priest charged with their care should conscientiously complete their religious formation lest they return to their former state.
The second type of sinners comprises those who are weak, lacking in will power, strongly inclined to sensual pleasure, intellectually dull, listless, or cowardly. They lament their faults, they admire good people anc[ would like to be one of them, but they lack the courage and energy to be so in reality. These dispositions do not excuse them from sin; on the contrary, they are more culpable than those who sin through ignorance, because they sin with a greater knowledge. But basically they are weak rather than evil. The person in charge of their spiritual welfare should be especially concerned with strengthening them in their good resolutions, leading them to the frequent reception of the sacraments, to reflection, and avoidance of the occasions of sin.
The third type of sinners are those who sin with cold indifference, without remorse of conscience, silencing the faint voice of conscience in order to continue their life of sin without reproach. They do not want to give up their sin and are not concerned that their conduct offends God.
The conversion of these persons is very difficult. Their constant infidelity to the inspirations of grace, their indifference to the basic norms of morality, their systematic disdain for the advice given them by those who wish to help them-all this hardens their hearts to such an extent that it would require a veritable miracle of grace for them to return to the right path.
Perhaps the most efficacious means .of leading them back to God would be to encourage them to practice certain spiritual exercises with a group of persons of the same profession or social condition as themselves; for example, to make a retreat, a parish mission, or a cursillo. It is not unusual for this type of person to try some spiritual exercise out of curiosity, especially if it is suggested in a friendly manner, and it frequently happens that a great grace from God awaits them there. At times astounding conversions are effected, radical changes of life, and the beginning of a life of piety and fervor in persons who formerly lived completely forgetful of God. The priest who has the good fortune to be the instrument of, such divine mercy should watch over the convert and by means of a wise and prudent direction try to assure the definitive and permanent return to God.
The fourth class of sinners is the most culpable. These people sin through a refined malice and diabolical obstinacy. They may have begun as good Christians, but little by little they degenerated, yielding more and more to evil until their souls were definitively conquered. Then came the inevitable consequence of defection and apostasy. The last barriers have been broken, and now these people are susceptible to every kind of moral disorder. They attack religion and the Church and may even join a non-Catholic sect and propagate its doctrines with zeal and ardor. One such person deliberately closed the door to any possibility of a return to God by saying to his friends and relatives: "If at the hour of death I ask for a priest to hear my confession, do not bring him, because I shall be delirious."
It is useless to try to win these people by persuasion or advice. It will make no impression on them and may even produce contrary effects. The only method to be used is strictly supernatural: prayer, fasting, constant recourse to the Blessed Virgin. Their conversion requires a special grace from God, and God does not always grant the grace, in spite of many prayers and supplications. It is as if these sinners had exhausted the patience of God and are destined to be for all eternity the living testimony of rigorous divine justice, because they have abused divine mercy.
We conclude with a statement by St. Teresa on the gravity of mortal sin:
I once heard a spiritual man say that he was not so much astonished at the things done by a soul in mortal sin as at the things not done by it. May God, in his mercy, deliver us from such great evil, for there is nothing in the whole of our lives that so thoroughly deserves to be called evil as this, since it brings endless and eternal evils in its train. [St. Teresa, The Interior Castle, trans. E. Allison Peers (New York: Sheed & Ward, 1946), First Mansions, Chap. 2.]
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Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream
There’s no way for you to know this. You’re just making baseless accusations. It’s like you WANT him to be damned. :facepalm:
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Francis screams at his demons while hospitalized (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=70XZ__44CEc)
He had to be sedated after seeing a portal of Hell at the foot of his bed.
You DO know this is a parody news company, right? Their headlines:
"Statue Of Liberty Seen Walking Back To France", "Earth Furious It Wasn't Invited To Planetary Parade", "Tripping Kids Who Run Around Restaurants To Be Made Legal"
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Despite all that there were no breaks in the facade, no fear in his eyes of impending judgement.
Instead he looked serene and unperturbed, like a fat kid who has eaten a pint of ice cream
I agree with Pax ... you're in absolutely no position to make such assertions. So you saw him in the 60 seconds that he appeared on the balcony on Easter Sunday and that provided enough data to arrive at such conclusions? Nearly 24 hours passed between then and when he finally expired, and much can happen between God and a soul within mere seconds, much less in 24 hours. While such dramatic changes in the final moments are exceedingly rare, with God all things are possible. I don't recall whether it was St. John Vianney or Padre Pio who mentioned that an individual persumed lost due to ѕυιcιdє had actually repented during those final seconds. And if God did not provide efficacious grace for such a conversion before his final moments, perhaps it was because God willed to allow the damage he was doing to the Church, and also the fact that Berogoglio had been unwittingly unmasking the true nature of the Conciliar Church that Wojtyla and Ratzinger had done a great job obscuring and misdirecting people away from.
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There’s no way for you to know this. You’re just making baseless accusations. It’s like you WANT him to be damned. :facepalm:
Yes, it's not difficult to detect it, where some have crossed the line into relishing the thought of his damnation. That's where the devil goes after Traditional Catholics, drawing us into that bitter zeal.
It's similar to the case of a cruel serial killer, where the mobs are calling for and relishing the thought of his burning in Hell ... whereas that's contrary to the mind and heart of God and the teaching of Our Lord. Yes, what he did was terrible, and indeed he should be executed for it ... not only to prevent any future harm either by that individual or others who might be deterred by his punishment, but also to carry out justice, where any lesser punishment would devalue the lives of his vicitims. At the same time, however, we desire his conversion and salvation. That is why it was customary even in the legal system, even while condeming someone to deaht, to also invokd God's mercy upon their souls. "You are condemned to death. May God have mercy on your soul." And the legal system offered to provide a priest (or some other non-Catholic clergy for non-Catholics) to attend them in their final hours.
Probably the easiest way to understand this and to forgive and to not hold grudges is to realize that God is in control of everything. Even if a serial killer took the life of someone in our family, it was ultimately God who willed that the person should die that way. God could just as easily have taken the vicim by a serious accident or sudden-onset health event (heart attack, stroke, etc.) Or God could easily have thwarted the designs of the killer.
Finally, if we stop and think ... if I had been born with Jorge Bergoglio's genes, into his family and culture, had experienced everything he did during his life, would I have ended up any different? Those of us who know our own sinfulness would conclude that we would not have, but would likely have been even worse. Studies have been conducted on identical twins separated at birth, and they very often ended up leading remarkably similar lives, going into the same profession, marrying strikingly similar spouses, etc.
So, but for the grace of God go we where Jorge Bergogio went. Jorge was someone's child. Imagine that it was your child who ended up where Jorge did. While deploring his evils, would you not have spent every last minute of your life begging God's mercy for him and the gift of salvation?
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Excellent post. I would give it 55,000 + thumbs up but for some reason I can't thumb up anybody's posts. Not sure why.
Nevertheless, excellent post, Pax Vobis! Excellent post!
I cannot thumb up or down, either. Perhaps it's because my account is fairly new.
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I agree with Pax ... you're in absolutely no position to make such assertions. So you saw him in the 60 seconds that he appeared on the balcony on Easter Sunday and that provided enough data to arrive at such conclusions? Nearly 24 hours passed between then and when he finally expired, and much can happen between God and a soul within mere seconds, much less in 24 hours. While such dramatic changes in the final moments are exceedingly rare, with God all things are possible. I don't recall whether it was St. John Vianney or Padre Pio who mentioned that an individual persumed lost due to ѕυιcιdє had actually repented during those final seconds. And if God did not provide efficacious grace for such a conversion before his final moments, perhaps it was because God willed to allow the damage he was doing to the Church, and also the fact that Berogoglio had been unwittingly unmasking the true nature of the Conciliar Church that Wojtyla and Ratzinger had done a great job obscuring and misdirecting people away from.
"Padre Pio was able not only to hear but to see souls from the other world. At times, he was given the gift of knowing the eternal condition of those who had died. It is said that the widow of a man who died by ѕυιcιdє once inquired about the state of her husband’s soul, and Padre Pio replied, “He’s saved. Between the bridge and the river he repented.”
via Catholic Exchange
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"Padre Pio was able not only to hear but to see souls from the other world. At times, he was given the gift of knowing the eternal condition of those who had died. It is said that the widow of a man who died by ѕυιcιdє once inquired about the state of her husband’s soul, and Padre Pio replied, “He’s saved. Between the bridge and the river he repented.”
via Catholic Exchange
The same anecdote is said of the Saint Curé d'Ars
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If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
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I don't know what's up with all the gasps and pearl clutching on here simply because I didn't see any external signs or statements by old Jorge that would lead me to believe he repented. The Vatican news service, those closest to him
have purported to share his last words and demeanor. Ah, but I guess they are lying too, they all conspired together
to trick us skeptical Traddies.
I must have listened to dozens of chilling sermons by St. Alphonsus Liguori and other saints describing the fate of Catholics, who due to one slip up, were cast into hell. It doesn't strike me as particularly just or merciful but I accept it. I don't know how Jorge can then receive a get of hell free pass.
Our God is one of perfect justice and although we can't fathom his infinite ways we nevertheless were endowed with
some innate sense of justice. Even a small child who gets one less piece of candy than their sibling knows what's fair and what isn't with their limited understanding.
Lastly, certain people criticizing my admittedly harsh tone are all too quick themselves to believe the very worst rumors about such and such Hollywood celebrity or other elite as if it were the gospel truth because of something Mel Gibson is claimed to have said.
Gimme a break.
So, I'll repeat...I never said Bergoglio was in hell. In the course of this and other threads on his demise I gave a broad list of
his heresies and crimes against humanity. Because of that other posters equate it with my relishing the idea he is in hell.
It's a bit like hearing of a man who fell out of an airplane without a parachute. I don't need to see him splatter to know how gravity operates. I guess there's an extremely remote possibility he landed upon the back of a flying unicorn that whisked him off to safety where they landed softly onto a meadow.
Know ye not we shall judge angels, so how much more the things of this world Saint Paul wrote.
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If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
If Bergoglio is not damned it is because he repented of his sins before death. Likely, no. Possibly, yes. When you stand before God in judgement these terrible words denying God His rights will be used against you, unless you repent. God will not be mocked and no one should dare to presume upon His mercy
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If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
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So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
We have zero reason to believe that Francis repented before his death.
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We have zero reason to believe that Francis repented before his death.
That’s not even the argument. Lasislaus, Pax, etc are simply arguing that it’s POSSIBLE and that it should be hoped for. Some people here are literally arguing that they want Francis to be damned. Which is uncharitable.
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That’s not even the argument. Lasislaus, Pax, etc are simply arguing that it’s POSSIBLE and that it should be hoped for. Some people here are literally arguing that they want Francis to be damned. Which is uncharitable.
Not only that, but I conceded that last-minute conversions are very unlikely (as per, say, a St. Alphonsus) but then said that with God all things are possible.
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We have zero reason to believe that Francis repented before his death.
Heard a sermon once about, what happens when we die and we go to heaven:
1. The people we assumed who would be there that aren't.
2. The people we assumed who wouldn't be there, that are.
3. We made it ourselves.
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If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first.
9 When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.
11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house,12 Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats.
13 But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? 14 Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee.
15 Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?
16 So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
(Matthew 20)
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We have zero reason to believe that Francis repented before his death.
It wasn't only his personal belief but something he taught is that everyone goes to heaven so why would he feel the need to repent?
He also taught that there is no hell so what reason would he have for repenting other than as some trite formality.
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I don't know what's up with all the gasps and pearl clutching on here simply because I didn't see any external signs or statements by old Jorge that would lead me to believe he repented.
1. You live 5,000 miles away. There's no way you would know if he prayed the rosary before he died or if he sacrificed a chicken to a demon. None of us would know anything.
2. For you to presume that you would have any inkling into the last hours of his death is beyond stupid. You don't even have an insight in the last hours of your neighbor, before he fell asleep last night.
The whole point is, your attitude is ridiculous. One, you presume you could infer someone's thoughts. And two, that you could do so from 5,000 miles away, with someone you've never met. And three, you presume very anti-catholic sentiments, i.e. "Oh, he looks like he's happy in his sins." :facepalm:
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VerdenFell, are you really a male? Your posts are highly emotional. I question whether you are lying about your gender.
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VerdenFell, are you really a male? Your posts are highly emotional. I question whether you are lying about your gender.
In the time it took you to write these gαy posts you could have been saying a rosary for your masonic pope Jorge.
Shame on you
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This Easter I confessed that I had not prayed for my mother RIP as I should because:
1. She was not Catholic
2. She practiced witchcraft
3. On more than one occasion mocked the Holy Eucharist
4. She manifested no signs of repentance prior to death
5. We found instruments of witchcraft among her belonging after her death
The priest chastened me to pray often for her soul as we do not know how God may have worked on her while she lay in a coma in the hours prior to her passing. Also, my family had made sacrifices on her behalf during her life that must have moved His Compassion in some way.
I see how my belief that she was already lost influenced me to not even utter one Hail Mary. I'm praying for her daily now.
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Nobody has denied the abstract possibility of repentance, yet some are arguing with those who recognize the incontrovertible facts of the external forum.
This is yet another example of the "Trad" penchant for engaging in circular firing squads, rather than confronting the most organized earthly opposition to God.
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yet some are arguing with those who recognize the incontrovertible facts of the external forum.
:facepalm: The external forum is a waste of time. God judges based on the internal forum.
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Can we just pray he converted, and be done with it.
For all the damage he did, if he DID convert, he will be in purgatory one minute short of eternity....
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And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first.
9 When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.
11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house,12 Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats.
13 But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? 14 Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee.
15 Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?
16 So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
(Matthew 20)
That's only if he repented and converted to Catholicism. That's about a 0.001% probability that he did. You're another fool suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
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If Bergoglio is not damned it is because he repented of his sins before death. Likely, no. Possibly, yes. When you stand before God in judgement these terrible words denying God His rights will be used against you, unless you repent. God will not be mocked and no one should dare to presume upon His mercy
You sanctimonious fairy. You know very little about God and His mercy.
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:facepalm: The external forum is a waste of time. God judges based on the internal forum.
Idiot. Is that why Our Lord tells us: without works, Faith is dead?
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You sanctimonious fairy. You know very little about God and His mercy.
Enlighten us, if you will then.
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If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
The above is heresy. You need to check yourself.
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The above is heresy. You need to check yourself.
Idiot. No, it's not. It's remaining steadfast in the Faith of the true God Who, by His very Nature, could and would never allow into Heaven an unrepentant communist, anti-Catholic, pedophile-protecting, sodomite-defending, judaizing scuм bag such as Bergoglio.
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Can we just pray he converted, and be done with it.
For all the damage he did, if he DID convert, he will be in purgatory one minute short of eternity....
We could, but this is a very enlightening discussion. With all of the debate surrounding the watering down of EENS, we now see an eroding of God's mercy, where Trads are hoping/judging a bad catholic to hell. In their eyes, the 'good thief' was a life-long criminal who deserved his death and did not deserve heaven. Of course, God had other thoughts.
What many of you Francis-haters need, is to forgive. We're not supposed to hate our enemies, even the worst enemies of the Church.
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Idiot. No, it's not. It's remaining steadfast in the Faith of the true God Who, by His very Nature, could and would never allow into Heaven an unrepentant communist, anti-Catholic, pedophile-protecting, sodomite-defending, judaizing scuм bag such as Bergoglio.
:facepalm: You don't know he was unrepentent. That's what we're supposed to be praying for. :facepalm:
The only person we know FOR CERTAIN who is in hell, is Judas.
The following people could've repented (and God would want them to): Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Nero, Paul6, JP2, etc, etc
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We're not supposed to hate our enemies, even the worst enemies of the Church.
Uh, we are to hate the enemies of our Church with fervor. What in the hell are you talking about?
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What many of you Francis-haters need, is to forgive.
What exactly would WE be forgiving Bergolio for? huh?
Try to imagine what Pius X (if he were alive, right now... hypothetically) would say about this apostate/heretic.
Try that one, for example..
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Uh, we are to hate the enemies of our Church with fervor. What in the hell are you talking about?
We're supposed to hate their evils but we cannot hate them personally (i.e. wish evils upon them, or wish hell upon them).
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With all of the debate surrounding the watering down of EENS, we now see an eroding of God's mercy, where Trads are hoping/judging a bad catholic to hell.
He wasn't Catholic. His actions and inaction (not excommunicating and not denying baby-murdering politicians communion) were anti-Catholic. Some of his rhetoric, at best, was a nominal vague "Christian" truism, that's when he wasn't tacitly defending the Sin of Sodom, communism and advocating for earth-worship.
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He wasn't Catholic. His actions and inaction (not excommunicating and not denying baby-murdering politicians communion) were anti-Catholic. Some of his rhetoric, at best, was a nominal vague "Christian" truism, that's when he wasn't tacitly defending the Sin of Sodom, communism and advocating for earth-worship.
You can't wish ANYONE to hell, whether they are a bad catholic, no catholic, a protestant, a satanist or a pagan.
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We're supposed to hate their evils but we cannot hate them personally (i.e. wish evils upon them, or wish hell upon them).
I don't think anyone here has wished "evil" on him. Actually, no one here has. We only wish God's mercy and judgement to be upheld, and from what we can objectively see very clearly, is that this guy was an apostate/heretic to the absolute max who had no intention of converting. At all, in any way shape or form. Now, we can't KNOW that, but that attitude is dangerous to have for someone leading billions of souls , astray. Use your reason.
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You can't wish ANYONE to hell, whether they are a bad catholic, no catholic, a protestant, a satanist or a pagan.
Strawman, boy. I'm not wishing anyone to hell. It's an observation of the truth. Observation not judgement.
You can't wish an anti-Catholic and anti-pope to Heaven.
But you're wrong about "you can't wish anyone to hell", for the Bible proves you are wrong:
Let death come upon them, and let them go down alive into hell. For there is wickedness in their dwellings: in the midst of them. ~ Psalm 55:15
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I don't think anyone here has wished "evil" on him. Actually, no one here has. We only wish God's mercy and judgement to be upheld, and from what we can objectively see very clearly, is that this guy was an apostate/heretic to the absolute max who had no intention of converting. At all, in any way shape or form. Now, we can't KNOW that, but that attitude is dangerous to have for someone leading billions of souls , astray. Use your reason.
You can't say that, above, in bold. It's uncatholic. You have no idea.
You have an obligation to pray for evil people, that they convert. We are not allowed to judge someone's internal thoughts.
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What exactly would WE be forgiving Bergolio for? huh?
Try to imagine what Pius X (if he were alive, right now... hypothetically) would say about this apostate/heretic.
Try that one, for example..
St Pius X said that modernists should "be beaten with fists". Yes, we can/should fight modernists. We should call out there heresies and fight their errors. We can even physically go to war with them (should the situation of armed combat arise). But in all of this, catholic charity does not diminish. In all of this, our fighting/correcting/warring is done with their SALVATION as the key purpose.
One of the spiritual works of mercy is to "admonish the sinner". It's not admonisment/correction for correction's sake. It's a correction to HELP THEM LEAVE SIN.
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Strawman, boy. I'm not wishing anyone to hell. It's an observation of the truth. Observation not judgement.
You can't wish an anti-Catholic and anti-pope to Heaven.
You're supposed to PRAY for it.
But you're wrong about "you can't wish anyone to hell", for the Bible proves you are wrong:
Let death come upon them, and let them go down alive into hell. For there is wickedness in their dwellings: in the midst of them. ~ Psalm 55:15
Your protestant understanding of Scripture is horrible. This is a PETITION TO GOD, that He send David's enemies to hell. And David's enemies are God's enemies.
Yes, we can pray that God's enemies go to hell.
But we don't know who God's enemies are...only God knows their hearts.
We're supposed to pray that God's enemies DON'T DIE IN THAT STATE, and convert.
Also, David was at open war with these people. On the battlefield. We are not.
The old testament sentiments on "Israel vs God's enemies" was updated with Jesus' coming and the new testament. We are not (currently) on a battlefield against our enemies. Ours is a spiritual battle.
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You sanctimonious fairy. You know very little about God and His mercy.
This is basic theology. You said "If Jorge Bergoglio is in Heaven"..okay, meaning he repented of his sins and died in a state of grace.."Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain"..here I was thinking Our Lord's sacrifice was for the atonement of all sin, sufficient for the salvation of all mankind, meriting the potential of sanctifying grace for all
Jansenism was condemned 400 years ago..get up to speed. I already said it is probable he was damned, so you can stuff your blathering about me being nithe.
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who had no intention of converting
If we are allowed to make the above decision (which we're not), then the following errors arise:
a. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we limit who we must pray for.
b. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we make ourselves the judge of sanctity.
c. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we limit God's mercy.
d. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we put limits on God's grace and omnipotence.
e. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we elevate God's justice above His mercy, when both are equally infinite.
f. Since we decide who didn't convert, then we judge the infinite (i.e. God's plans) using our finite brains.
All of these are horribly uncatholic errors.
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This is basic theology. You said "If Jorge Bergoglio is in Heaven"..okay, meaning he repented of his sins and died in a state of grace.."Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain"..here I was thinking Our Lord's sacrifice was for the atonement of all sin, sufficient for the salvation of all mankind, meriting the potential of sanctifying grace for all
Jansenism was condemned 400 years ago..get up to speed. I already said it is probable he was damned, so you can stuff your blathering about me being nithe.
No, you idiot. If he was in Heaven without repenting and converting because of "muh 'divine mercy'" and that new religion deception that he promulgated. Learn how to read. I clearly wrote unrepentant in my previous comment.
There is absolutely no reason, no evidence and no public revelation by him to believe he repented and converted, but people suffering Stockholm Syndrome still hope for his salvation.
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You're supposed to PRAY for it.
Jeremias 11:9-15 tells us not to pray for him.
Your protestant understanding of Scripture is horrible.
Sure, when you're losing the Catholic debate, call your opponent a "protestant".
Yes, we can pray that God's enemies go to hell.
Jorge Borgoglio was an enemy of God.
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There is absolutely no reason, no evidence and no public revelation by him to believe he repented and converted
:facepalm: Are you dense? Are you unaware of a 'perfect act of contrition', which can be made mentally, WITHOUT ANYONE ELSE KNOWING?
Do you honestly hold the error that repentance/conversion must take some kind of outward appearance or have exterior evidence? This seems to be what you're saying. This is so horribly uncatholic. You need a catechism refresher.
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14 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-14.htm)Bless them that persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-15.htm)Rejoice with them that rejoice; weep with them that weep. 16 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-16.htm)Being of one mind one towards another. Not minding high things, but consenting to the humble. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-17.htm)To no man rendering evil for evil. Providing good things, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight of all men. 18 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-18.htm)If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men. 19 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-19.htm)Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-20.htm)But if thy enemy be hungry, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink. For, doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head. 21 (https://biblehub.com/romans/12-21.htm)Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good.
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No, you idiot. If he was in Heaven without repenting and converting because of "muh 'divine mercy'" and that new religion deception that he promulgated.
There is absolutely no reason, no evidence and no public revelation by him to believe he repented and converted, but people suffering Stockholm Syndrome still hope for his salvation.
You failing to properly articulate yourself does not make me an idiot, it just makes you look like you are presuming upon God's mercy. If he did not repent and die in a state of grace he is certainly damned, I agree with you..but no one can say with absolute certainty that that is what happened
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Jorge Borgoglio was an enemy of God.
He was for most of his life. But we do not know that he DIED an enemy of God. And our catholic Faith COMPELS US to pray that he did not die an enemy of God, but God's friend.
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You failing to properly articulate yourself does not make me an idiot, it just makes you look like you are presuming upon God's mercy. If he did not repent and die in a state of grace he is certainly damned, I agree with you..but no one can say with absolute certainty that that is what happened
Idiot. I clearly wrote he was unrepentant in my previous comment to which you responded with a strawman. Learn to read, fool.
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He was for most of his life. But we do not know that he DIED an enemy of God. And our catholic Faith COMPELS US to pray that he did not die an enemy of God, but God's friend.
Fool. Snap out of your Stockholm Syndrome. The probability of Bergoglio making a perfect contrition right before he died is lower than the probability of Trump denouncing zionism and stopping all aid to "Israel".
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The probability
Where does God tells us to make decisions on His mercy based on probability?
Where has the church made any decisions on anyone’s damnation? And if the Church doesn’t decide, what gives you the right to?
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Where does God tells us to make decisions on His mercy based on probability?
Where has the church made any decisions on anyone’s damnation? And if the Church doesn’t decide, what gives you the right to?
Fool. Sin against the Holy Ghost is unforgivable. The Church clearly defines it.
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Fool. Sin against the Holy Ghost is unforgivable. The Church clearly defines it.
:facepalm: You can't read anyone's heart. You don't know who has, or hasn't hardened their heart. You cannot make this determination based on "probability". You are insane.
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:facepalm: You can't read anyone's heart. You don't know who has, or hasn't hardened their heart. You cannot make this determination based on "probability". You are insane.
:facepalm:
Fool. You argue like a litigious jew. You're insane with your Stockholm Syndrome.
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Francis himself was a demon in human form
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:facepalm:
Fool. You argue like a litigious jew. You're insane with your Stockholm Syndrome.
So since you know that Francis is in hell, who else is there? Is Thomas a Kemis in hell? The Church has never told us, but you obviously know these things.
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Francis himself was a demon in human form
Wow. The hubris of some of you.
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:facepalm:
Fool. You argue like a litigious jew. You're insane with your Stockholm Syndrome.
Stockholm Syndrome? We'd need to be held captive first, but the only thing trapping us is the sheer absurdity of your incoherent vitriol. Litigious jews? Truly a masterstroke of originality, plucked straight from the dumpster of discarded tropes. Your rhetorical prowess is so formidable, it could almost—almost—distract from the fact that your critique has the substance of a soap bubble. Care to try again with something resembling a point and dazzle us more with your 50 word vocabulary?
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:facepalm:
Fool. You argue like a litigious jew. You're insane with your Stockholm Syndrome.
Christ prayed for his enemies til His last breath. The martyrs forgave their persecutors and prayed for their conversions. We are obligated to pray for Francis as well. We don't stop praying for our enemies until we die. That's true catholicism.
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Christ prayed for his enemies til His last breath. The martyrs forgave their persecutors and prayed for their conversions. We are obligated to pray for Francis as well. We don't stop praying for our enemies until we die. That's true catholicism.
:facepalm:
Fool. Our Lord prayed for the Romans. They weren't His enemies. The jews were/are His enemies. The jews murdered God. Borgoglio and the jews are enemies of God.
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:facepalm:
Fool. Our Lord prayed for the Romans. They weren't His enemies. The jews were/are His enemies. The jews murdered God. Borgoglio and the jews are enemies of God.
So Christ didn't pray for the Jews on the cross? You honestly believe that?
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Hey Pax, remember that time Grandfather Caligula aka Joe Biden was visiting the Vatican and Jorge told him he was a good Catholic? The same Joe Biden who supported wanton infanticide...including the unspeakably ghoulish act of partial birth abortion.
I wonder how many people around the world saw that and thought they had nothing to worry about for killing their child since the pope himself gave his blessing to such a man. Or, thought to themselves it's perfectly ok to vote for the party that sponsors such evil.
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Hey Pax, remember that time Grandfather Caligula aka Joe Biden was visiting the Vatican and Jorge told him he was a good Catholic? The same Joe Biden who supported wanton infanticide...including the unspeakably ghoulish act of partial birth abortion.
I wonder how many people around the world saw that and thought they had nothing to worry about for killing their child since the pope himself gave his blessing to such a man. Or, thought to themselves it's perfectly ok to vote for the party that sponsors such evil.
I've never read any passage in Scripture, nor heard any saint say that any sinner is beyond God's mercy. However sinful they are.
:facepalm: That's the whole point of the story of Judas....that no matter how sinful one is, if you repent, God will forgive you.
Or do you believe that Judas' sin was unforgivable? His sin was certainly worse than the Jews'. Judas was a priest, who betrayed the Messiah. The Jews rejected the Messiah, but they had fewer graces than Judas.
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Idiot. I clearly wrote he was unrepentant in my previous comment to which you responded with a strawman. Learn to read, fool.
Can you point out where you "clearly wrote he was unrepentant" (how can you say with certainty?) in this comment?
If Jorge Borgoglio is in Heaven, then all of the Catholic martyrs shed their blood in vain. Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is in vain. If God allows Borgoglio in Heaven, despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure, then God is a flake or fraud, and I want not be in any of the mansions of God's house after I die. Keep me away from that demented God.
I read this comment with the point of view of a Catholic who understands what is necessary to attain eternal salvation. Simply put: be a Catholic in a state of grace. I assume other traditional Catholics understand that as well. When you say "If Jorge Bergoglio is in heaven" I am going to assume you mean that he died in a state of grace, because that is necessary to attain salvation.
Saying "despite his anti-Catholic pathology thoughout his tenure" is not "clearly [writing] he was unrepentant ", because his sins do not preclude him from seeking and receiving forgiveness.
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(https://x.com/NovusOrdoWatch)@NovusOrdoWatchCesare Sacchetti: "According to Vatican sources Bergoglio refused the sacraments before dying. It was his final outrage to God. Now the game of the conclave begins. Ecclesiastical Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ is split. Is this the end of the false church prophesied by Padre Pio?" #popefrancis (https://x.com/hashtag/popefrancis?src=hashtag_click)
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Secondo fonti vaticane, Bergoglio ha rifiutato i sacramenti prima di morire. È stato il suo oltraggio finale a Dio. Adesso si apre la partita del conclave. La massoneria ecclesiastica è spaccata. È la fine della falsa chiesa profetizzata da padre Pio?
https://lacrunadellago.net/il-rifiuto-dei-sacramenti-di-bergoglio-e-il-conclave-e-la-fine-della-falsa-chiesa-profetizzata-da-padre-pio/…
8:35 AM · Apr 23, 2025 (https://x.com/NovusOrdoWatch/status/1915021713638609159)
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Maybe he was expecting pachamama to save him
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Here’s a demon for ya-
(https://i.imgur.com/4Fbshfv.jpeg)
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:facepalm:
Fool. Our Lord prayed for the Romans. They weren't His enemies. The jews were/are His enemies. The jews murdered God. Borgoglio and the jews are enemies of God.
You can make your arguments without repeatedly calling your Catholic brothers and sisters fools.
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I cannot thumb up or down, either. Perhaps it's because my account is fairly new.
FYI drphil and clare67, unfortunately you can't up thumb or down thumb anyone until you have 100 posts.
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Good to see all is as usual on CathInfo. :popcorn:
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Can you point out where you "clearly wrote he was unrepentant" (how can you say with certainty?) in this comment?
Learn to read, you dishonest fool. It was my second comment. Your strawman was after my second comment where I clearly said he was unrepentant. And, if you have any reasoning skills, my first comment is based off the premise that he is unrepentant due to his anti-Catholic "papacy". He never gave any public indication that he ever converted. Sure anyone can have a deathbed perfect contrition and conversion, but a unicorn can walk through your backyard, too.
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So Christ didn't pray for the Jews on the cross? You honestly believe that?
Absolutely. When Christ said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", He was referring to the Romans who didn't know He was the Son of God and Messiah. They didn't realize they were being manipulated by the jews to crucify Him. The jews knew exactly what they were doing. They are guilty of Deicide. Jews are enemies of God. That is Catholic teaching.
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I've never read any passage in Scripture, nor heard any saint say that any sinner is beyond God's mercy. However sinful they are.
Fool. Sin against the Holy Ghost is unforgivable according to the Trent Catechism. If Borgoglio remained obstinate in his manifest anti-Catholicism until death which we can deduce according to his public words, actions and inactions, then he sinned against the Holy Ghost. He is damned eternally.
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You can't wish ANYONE to hell, whether they are a bad catholic, no catholic, a protestant, a satanist or a pagan.
Fool. Borgoglio publicly consented to perverts against nature when he stated "Who am I to judge?" regarding their Sin of Sodom. For that reason, Romans 1:32 clearly states he is worthy of death (physically and his eternal soul):
Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
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my mother:
2. She practiced witchcraft
3. On more than one occasion mocked the Holy Eucharist
4. She manifested no signs of repentance prior to death
5. We found instruments of witchcraft among her belonging after her death
Stockholm Syndrome? We'd need to be held captive first, but the only thing trapping us is the sheer absurdity of your incoherent vitriol. Litigious jews? Truly a masterstroke of originality, plucked straight from the dumpster of discarded tropes. Your rhetorical prowess is so formidable, it could almost—almost—distract from the fact that your critique has the substance of a soap bubble. Care to try again with something resembling a point and dazzle us more with your 50 word vocabulary?
Obviously, some of your mother's skank witchery was passed down to you. ::)
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Fool. Borgoglio publicly consented to perverts against nature when he stated "Who am I to judge?" regarding their Sin of Sodom. For that reason, Romans 1:32 clearly states he is worthy of death (physically and his eternal soul):
Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
I would also point out Apocalypse chapter 18 where the Angel rejoices when those who have corrupted the Church and world get their comeuppance.
Like the devil, Bergoglio's lifelong work...his very raison d'etre, was to spread to confusion for the purpose of leading souls to hell. He delighted in it. I'll pray for those led astray by his lies but I won't waste a second praying for such a monster.
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Learn to read, you dishonest fool. It was my second comment. Your strawman was after my second comment where I clearly said he was unrepentant. And, if you have any reasoning skills, my first comment is based off the premise that he is unrepentant due to his anti-Catholic "papacy". He never gave any public indication that he ever converted. Sure anyone can have a deathbed perfect contrition and conversion, but a unicorn can walk through your backyard, too.
Which of my comments was the strawman? I responded to your first comment in this thread before you posted your second second. In neither of which did you "clearly" write "unrepentant". Neither did you in your reply to my first comment, which would have immediately cleared the "confusion" up..rather, you resorted to name-calling
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Absolutely. When Christ said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", He was referring to the Romans who didn't know He was the Son of God and Messiah. They didn't realize they were being manipulated by the jews to crucify Him. The jews knew exactly what they were doing. They are guilty of Deicide. Jews are enemies of God. That is Catholic teaching.
The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released. 14 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=14-#x)But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you. 15 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=15-#x)But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.
16 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=16-#x)And in the faith of his name, this man, whom you have seen and known, hath his name strengthened; and the faith which is by him, hath given this perfect soundness in the sight of you all. 17 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=17-#x)And now, brethren, I know that you did it through ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=18-#x)But those things which God before had shewed by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=19-#x)Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. 20 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=20-#x)That when the times of refreshment shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send him who hath been preached unto you, Jesus Christ,
Acts 3:13-20
Men, brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you fear God, to you the word of this salvation is sent. 27 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=13&l=27-#x)For they that inhabited Jerusalem, and the rulers thereof, not knowing him, nor the voices of the prophets, which are read every sabbath, judging him have fulfilled them. 28 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=13&l=28-#x)And finding no cause of death in him, they desired of Pilate, that they might kill him. 29 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=13&l=29-#x)And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, taking him down from the tree, they laid him in a sepulchre
Acts 13:16-29
This is not to say that ignorance necessarily excuses moral culpability, the Jews should have known Him and accepted Him as the Messiah..but the majority did not because the Pharisees had "[made] void the word of God by [their] own tradition", and taught the Jews "doctrines and commandments of men"
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Absolutely. When Christ said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", He was referring to the Romans who didn't know He was the Son of God and Messiah. They didn't realize they were being manipulated by the jews to crucify Him. The jews knew exactly what they were doing. They are guilty of Deicide. Jews are enemies of God. That is Catholic teaching.
This is heresy. Christ's sacrifice was for ALL MEN, even for the Jews who crucified Him.
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Fool. Sin against the Holy Ghost is unforgivable according to the Trent Catechism. If Borgoglio remained obstinate in his manifest anti-Catholicism until death which we can deduce according to his public words, actions and inactions, then he sinned against the Holy Ghost. He is damned eternally.
You are a complete moron. Your entire argument is based on your ASSUMPTION that Francis died in sin. But you have no way of knowing this. No, we cannot DEDUCE anything. And no, you have NO IDEA if he committed a sin against the Holy Ghost or not.
The Church has never placed anyone in hell, yet you are making this determination yourself. You are a moron and a possible heretic.
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Fool. Borgoglio publicly consented to perverts against nature when he stated "Who am I to judge?" regarding their Sin of Sodom. For that reason, Romans 1:32 clearly states he is worthy of death (physically and his eternal soul):
Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
Your protestant interpretation of this passage is wrong. And heretical.
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This is heresy. Christ's sacrifice was for ALL MEN, even for the Jews who crucified Him.
He died for everyone, correct. However, a Jew needs to convert. And yes, as a collective of people, they ARE the enemies of Christ. This is is not debatable, and many popes have confirmed this.
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You are a moron and a possible heretic.
Keep in mind this is the same guy who said "The Catholic Church wrote the Bible" at least five times in an attempt to fortify his erroneous interpretation of Scripture :laugh2:
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Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. Matthew 18:7
That man was Jorge Begoglio
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Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. Matthew 18:7
That man was Jorge Begoglio
I don't know if THAT MAN was Bergolio. "JP2" really nailed the coffin in subversion. Bergolio was an easy about face/in your face, in my opinion
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Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. Matthew 18:7
That man was Jorge Begoglio
You can't be serious. :facepalm: "That man" refers to every person who causes scandal, which probably everyone is guilty for, at some point in their life. "That man" doesn't refer to 1 person. :facepalm:
I hope some of you are trolling because otherwise, the general, Catholic IQ is much, much lower than I thought.
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He died for everyone, correct. However, a Jew needs to convert. And yes, as a collective of people, they ARE the enemies of Christ. This is is not debatable, and many popes have confirmed this.
Doesn't matter if the Jew converts or not....Christ still died for them, which Croix heretically denies.
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Doesn't matter if the Jew converts or not....Christ still died for them, which Croix heretically denies.
He makes some novel distinction between "our" enemies and "God's" enemies as a way to excuse himself from praying for the Jews..except that doesn't hold any weight because when Saul, as a Jew working for the Jews, was persecuting the Christians our Lord said to him "Saul, why persecutest thou me?"
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You can't be serious. :facepalm: "That man" refers to every person who causes scandal, which probably everyone is guilty for, at some point in their life. "That man" doesn't refer to 1 person. :facepalm:
I hope some of you are trolling because otherwise, the general, Catholic IQ is much, much lower than I thought.
Well duh, obviously.
There are degrees of sin and degrees of culpability. There are also degrees of influence.
Every soul on the planet knew who Begoglio was, his every public utterance was conveyed around the world
by the media and on the internet. Not a week went by that he didn't use the enormous reach of the papacy to
create scandal for the specific purpose of undermining 2000 YEARS of Catholic tradition.
So, yeah...THAT MAN is MOST responsible for creating scandal these past 12 years and woe to him.
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Doesn't matter if the Jew converts or not....Christ still died for them, which Croix heretically denies.
It doesn't matter if the Jew/non Christian converts or not? What? Christ died that we all may be saved BY entering into his Church, AND by being in the state of grace at death. Every human born has the ability by free will to accept this or not.
What I just said has been confirmed for 2000 years and by Church fathers, over and over, and over again.
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It doesn't matter if the Jew/non Christian converts or not? What? Christ died that we all may be saved BY entering into his Church, AND by being in the state of grace at death. Every human born has the ability by free will to accept this or not.
What I just said has been confirmed for 2000 years and by Church fathers, over and over, and over again.
Christ died for the Jew who converts and for the Jew who doesn’t. You get this. Croix doesn’t.
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Christ died for the Jew who converts and for the Jew who doesn’t. You get this. Croix doesn’t.
Half of your comments are strawman arguments and non sequitur.
You're a crypto-Montinian defending a scuм bag anti-pope who never made one iota public abjuration of his heresies and anti-Catholicism.
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Keep in mind this is the same guy who said "The Catholic Church wrote the Bible" at least five times in an attempt to fortify his erroneous interpretation of Scripture :laugh2:
You're the one who obstinately rejects Catholic teaching and the Bible.
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Half of your comments are strawman arguments and non sequitur.
You're a crypto-Montinian defending a scuм bag anti-pope who never made one iota public abjuration of his heresies and anti-Catholicism.
:laugh1: You don't know if he abjured his heresies or not. In danger of death, he's not obligated to take out an ad in a newspaper or to give a public speech. He's not going to personally send you a letter. In danger of death, to abjure one's heresies, it can all be done in confession.
Outside of danger of death, yes, a public abjuration is typically done. But in danger of death, nope. So none of us would ever know.
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17 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=3&l=17-#x)And now, brethren, I know that you did it through ignorance, as did also your rulers.
You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.
Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:
"The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
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You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.
Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:
"The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
Christ still suffered and died for the Jews who “willed” His death.
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Christ still suffered and died for the Jews who “willed” His death.
Red herring and strawman fallacy. I never said He didn't. But salvation is only for those baptized into Him with water and Spirit and live His Word.
Back to Bergoglio. He was anti-Catholic and consented to iniquity, even offences that cry to Heaven for vengeance. He never made any public abjuration of these offenses. He is likely damned and getting reamed by Satan and Asmodeus. Your "well, the existence of unicorns are still possible" (he couldn't made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died) argument is not a sound defense of Bergoglio the scuм bag.
You are a crypto-Montinian. God is going to cut you down, boy.
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Your "well, the existence of unicorns are still possible" (he couldn't made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died) argument is not a sound defense of Bergoglio the scuм bag.
:facepalm: It's not a defense of his sins. Do you not understand the difference between 'temporal punishment due to sins' and being forgiven? God forgives; temporal punishment remains. A sinner who is forgiven still has to pay for his sins.
You are a crypto-Montinian. God is going to cut you down, boy.
Again, you seem to be arguing that if God forgave Francis on his deathbed (and our Faith tells us that God wants all sinners to repent), that somehow this means the sinner's crimes are no longer evil. :facepalm:
Your logic on this topic is totally bonkers.
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:facepalm: It's not a defense of his sins.
Another strawman.
I'm refuting your unreasonable argument for Borgolio's salvation over the extremely minute probability that he made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died.
Again, you seem to be arguing that if God forgave Francis on his deathbed (and our Faith tells us that God wants all sinners to repent), that somehow this means the sinner's crimes are no longer evil. :facepalm:
You should be covering your face but in an act of shame because what you wrote makes absolutely no sense. It's a desperate attempt at another strawman but is afflicted with the most exaggerated retardation.
Your logic on this topic is totally bonkers.
Your "logic" on this topic is deceitful and retarded. Just like a true Montinian.
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I'm refuting your unreasonable argument for Borgolio's salvation over the extremely minute probability that he made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died.
It's not an argument. I'm simply stating the facts --- we don't know if Francis is saved or damned.
You are arguing based on probability (i.e. there's a 99.99% chance he's damned). I'm saying, this is a worldly way of looking at it. Because spiritual grace is more powerful (and can't be seen or measured), so probability is meaningless.
Anyone who saw Saul (the future St Paul) riding on his horse, on his way to persecute Christians, would've NEVER expected that God would intervene and infuse his soul with the grace of conversion. The probability of Saul converting was 0.01%. But it happened. Nobody expected it.
God's grace >>> probability.
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You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.
Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:
"The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
What on earth are you talking about? This was the extent of my "interpretation":
the Jews should have known Him and accepted Him as the Messiah..but the majority did not because the Pharisees had "[made] void the word of God by [their] own tradition", and taught the Jews "doctrines and commandments of men"
I agree with what St. Augustine wrote and I believe the Jews to be guilty of Deicide. You are the one novelly limiting "They know not what they do" to the ignorance of the Romans, when there is no precedent in excluding the willful ignorance of the Jews. This is backed up by the verses I already quoted
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Anyone who saw Saul (the future St Paul) riding on his horse, on his way to persecute Christians, would've NEVER expected that God would intervene and infuse his soul with the grace of conversion. The probability of Saul converting was 0.01%. But it happened. Nobody expected it.
This is a fair assessment but here's the thing: if Bergoglio acted on graces offered by God to make a perfect act of contrition (or receive last Rites) and convert, why not allow him, at least for some time, to live a bit longer as a CATHOLIC in public ministry for His greater glory, just as St. Paul, after his conversion, served God in public ministry for His greater glory? Why not make Bergoglio a living testimony for Catholic truth, just as God made St. Paul (former murderer against Christians) a living testimony for Christ's truth?
So, for the sake of the faithful and lest they be scandalized, it is prudent to call out the fact the Borgoglio remained publicly obstinate in his anti-Catholicism until death, hence, he must be getting reamed by Asmodeus and Satan for eternity.
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This is a fair assessment but here's the thing: if Bergoglio acted on graces offered by God to make a perfect act of contrition (or receive last Rites) and convert, why not allow him, at least for some time, to live a bit longer as a CATHOLIC in public ministry for His greater glory, just as St. Paul, after his conversion, served God in public ministry for His greater glory? Why not make Bergoglio a living testimony for Catholic truth, just as God made St. Paul (former murderer against Christians) a living testimony for Christ's truth?
I have no idea. Why did God allow the life-long criminal on the cross to convert? God could've converted him earlier, but that didn't happen.
So, for the sake of the faithful and lest they be scandalized, it is prudent to call out the fact the Borgoglio remained publicly obstinate in his anti-Catholicism until death, hence, he must be getting reamed by Asmodeus and Satan for eternity.
Absolutely not. The faithful are ALREADY scandalized by Francis. Him converting doesn't change anything. Just like St Paul converting didn't change his past, nor make his crimes against Christianity any better.
The past is the past. Evil deeds remain evil deeds, even if the person converts. Scandals of the past cannot be undone.
The Church does not presume that any person is in hell. Thus, we cannot either.
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I have no idea. Why did God allow the life-long criminal on the cross to convert?
But he converted in public on a cross and became a public living testimony of the truth of Christ, as brief as it was, but the quality of testimony is what matters. So God willed his conversion to be public so others who are lost might see the light and become saved in Christ.
So if Borgolgio perfectly repented of his sins and converted, he would've been a great public living testimony for Catholic truth, even for just a little while before God taking him Home. But that didn't happen. Sure, we humans, many times, can't understand the mysteries of God and His will but it's not unreasonable to think God didn't allow Borgoglio to live longer and more time in public ministry because he never repented and converted.
Absolutely not. The faithful are ALREADY scandalized by Francis. Him converting doesn't change anything. Just like St Paul converting didn't change his past, nor make his crimes against Christianity any better.
Again, it's about saving at least some souls now and in the future. It's not about the past. The past is done. Just as St. Paul's ministry was about converting people to Jesus Christ not about undoing his past crimes against Christians.
The Church does not presume that any person is in hell. Thus, we cannot either.
The Church knows and defines that anyone who dies outside of the Church or dies in mortal sin is in hell.
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Absolutely. When Christ said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", He was referring to the Romans who didn't know He was the Son of God and Messiah. They didn't realize they were being manipulated by the jews to crucify Him. The jews knew exactly what they were doing. They are guilty of Deicide. Jews are enemies of God. That is Catholic teaching.
I agree with this. The Pharisees and Sadducees lived in the Temple and studied scripture every waking moment for their entire lives. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was as He fulfilled every prophecy of the coming Messiah.
But since the jews had a regular habit of killing the prophets, it was not out of the question for them to kill Christ since He was NOT THE MESSIAH that they wanted. They wanted an earthly king so that the jews could rule the material world.
Some things never change.
The Pagan Romans on the other hand, hadn't a clue who they were brutally killing.
It was the jews that instructed the soldiers to mock Christ and call Him King at the foot of the Cross.
"Father forgive them for they know not what they do" was for the pagan Romans, and the Father did forgive them, as Christendom was rooted in Rome thereafter.
1 Thessalonians 2 14:15
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but it's not unreasonable to think God didn't allow Borgoglio to live longer and more time in public ministry because he never repented and converted.
Yeah it is unreasonable. Because our religion is not based on what we can see alone. Salvation is between each person and God, much of which is unknowable to the external.
Empiricism is a heresy.
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I agree with this. The Pharisees and Sadducees lived in the Temple and studied scripture every waking moment for their entire lives. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was as He fulfilled every prophecy of the coming Messiah.
But since the jews had a regular habit of killing the prophets, it was not out of the question for them to kill Christ since He was NOT THE MESSIAH that they wanted. They wanted an earthly king so that the jews could rule the material world.
Some things never change.
The Pagan Romans on the other hand, hadn't a clue who they were brutally killing.
It was the jews that instructed the soldiers to mock Christ and call Him King at the foot of the Cross.
"Father forgive them for they know not what they do" was for the pagan Romans, and the Father did forgive them, as Christendom was rooted in Rome thereafter.
1 Thessalonians 2 14:15
Yes, the Jews knowingly killed Christ. And Christ still died for them.
To say that Christ only died for some, but not all men, for all times, is heresy.
The GRACES will not be ACCEPTED by all men (ie the “for many” in the Mass), but Christ's SACRIFICE was for all. You must distinguish.
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To say that Christ only died for some, but not all men, for all times, is heresy.
Stop your strawman fallacy. You've committed this several times already.
Empiricism is a heresy.
So is universal salvation and Montinianism.
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Yes, the Jews knowingly killed Christ. And Christ still died for them.
To say that Christ only died for some, but not all men, for all times, is heresy.
The GRACES will not be ACCEPTED by all men (ie the “for many” in the Mass), but Christ's SACRIFICE was for all. You must distinguish.
Of course He died for all that would receive Him . Where did I say that he didn’t?
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Stop your strawman fallacy. You've committed this several times already.
So is universal salvation and Montinianism.
:laugh1: I don’t think you know what a strawman is.
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:laugh1: I don’t think you know what a strawman is.
You misrepresent what a person is saying and then you argue against it.
You're a shifty snake. A Montinian.
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Of course He died for all that would receive Him . Where did I say that he didn’t?
That's one of his strawman fallacies. Let it be known that Pax Vobis is a Montinian worm.