Author Topic: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group? (Read 13870 times)

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #30 on:** February 08, 2024, 09:49:25 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on February 08, 2024, 09:41:19 AM

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, and I really, honestly HATE TO SAY this, but...

You don't believe in invincible ignorance, Baptism of Blood, or Baptism of Desire? Seriously? BoB and BoD are literally taught in the Catechism of the Council of Trent.

I know, "Feeneyism", which many hold to.
BUT I thought that denial of BoB, BoD was a strawman distortion of what Fr. Feeney taught. One of the things I've learned on CI over the years...

And you seem to be a few notches more favorable towards the Dimonds than you should be. And a bit too excited about this "All Seeing Eye" creepy group. Is it because of the aforementioned "novel" beliefs about BoB and BoD? You seem forced by your odd belief(s) to make common cause with some really shady groups. I'm going by your own words -- you seem desperate for some group(s) that agree with your "position". So you'll take what you can get.

Here's my opinion on the Dimonds --
In a better world, the Dimonds would be arrested by the State and/or the Church and all their "apostolate" websites/materials taken offline. They would be tried for heresy.

The only good the Dimonds have to offer (like the lemonade in a 98% lemonade 2% cyanide cocktail) is their stuff on non-controversial subjects, like Evolution or Creation. We probably also agree on Abortion, sex education, and the general depravity of the Modern World. MAYBE a bit on what happened at Vatican II. But even that is a bit hazy.

(EDIT: I misread Catechism of Trent for just Council of Trent, though the Catechism also does not teach it)
No they are not, nowhere does Trent mention anything about a baptism of blood, and even baptism of desire is an assumption. Just because the council uses the term 'desire' does not mean it refers baptism of desire. This is an assumption due to the speculations of some Saints.

I can mention Saint Peter Canisius who was at the Council, yet in his catechism at the relevant section which people misinterpret and read in baptism of desire, he does not make mention of it and even goes so far to quote Saint Augustine and St Ambrose on the necessity of WATER baptism.

You say I am biased towards groups that reject heretical garbage like salvation outside the Church by the Church or salvation in invincible ignorance (which the Church never taught and scripture refutes) and you are correct. Unfortunately I have not see many trad group who reject these errors. So far I haven't seen any glaring errors from this new group, though dislike their version of the eye of providence they used.

On the contrary I will say that you and most trads are biased towards invincible ignorance and BoD/BoB simply because Archbishop Lefebvre taught it. His statements in which he denied EENS were heretical, regardless of whatever good things he did trying to hold to tradition.

The Church has numerous dogmatic statements on water baptism, that all the new testament saints were baptised, that only those baptised and profess the truth faith are members of the Church and that even if one sheds their blood they can't be saved unless they are members of the Church. The logical conclusion is that BoD and BoB are false doctrines.

rosarytrad · « **Reply #31 on:** February 08, 2024, 09:51:20 PM »

The Dimonds played a major role in my conversion also. I love their style. What can I say? 🤷‍♂️ They made it plain for me to make the decision to stop being an “indulter” and be an actual Catholic. And they promote the rosary a ton. My Godfather and I use a phrase to describe The Dimonds and others like them. Haha. “Straight up black coffee!” 😆 although the Dimonds might be better described as a shot of espresso.

And I love the Dimond video on the magicians. Is everything in stage or street magic performed with the help of demons? I’d wager no. HOWEVER, the posters and pictures of magicians with demons whispering in their ears seems to explain how some of these guys are able to “read minds.” That part is sort of terrifying to me. I think demons are essential to a top selling magicians act at the end of the day.

The other part from the Dimond video that intrigued me was that magician Dynamo and his name being taken from Manly P Halls book. Dynamo uses “heat” from his hand to impress an image of it into glass… it is an inversion of that story of the soul in purgatory doing something similar into a piece of wood. The Burnt Hand of Foligno: https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=BOSTONSH18940707-01.2.77&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-------

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #32 on:** February 08, 2024, 10:11:32 PM »

Quote from: rosarytrad on February 08, 2024, 09:51:20 PM

The Dimonds played a major role in my conversion also. I love their style. What can I say? 🤷‍♂️ They made it plain for me to make the decision to stop being an “indulter” and be an actual Catholic. And they promote the rosary a ton. My Godfather and I use a phrase to describe The Dimonds and others like them. Haha. “Straight up black coffee!” 😆 although the Dimonds might be better described as a shot of espresso.

And I love the Dimond video on the magicians. Is everything in stage or street magic performed with the help of demons? I’d wager no. HOWEVER, the posters and pictures of magicians with demons whispering in their ears seems to explain how some of these guys are able to “read minds.” That part is sort of terrifying to me. I think demons are essential to a top selling magicians act at the end of the day.

The other part from the Dimond video that intrigued me was that magician Dynamo and his name being taken from Manly P Halls book. Dynamo uses “heat” from his hand to impress an image of it into glass… it is an inversion of that story of the soul in purgatory doing something similar into a piece of wood. The Burnt Hand of Foligno: https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=BOSTONSH18940707-01.2.77&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-------

I agree with you and was also converted by the content the Dimonds put out. The main thing with the OP post is that the Dimonds to not handle criticism well. A lot of the tricks can be explained with natural reasons after some googling, their response to such criticism is one of the issues they have overall as this is not a one time thing.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #33 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:13:45 AM »

Quote from: rosarytrad on February 08, 2024, 09:51:20 PM

I love their style. What can I say? 🤷‍♂️

Agreed. It's refreshing, honest, blunt ... and showing no human respect. While everyone else pussy-foots around heresy these days, the Dimond Brothers administer the verbal beating with fists that St. Pius X said was needed for Modernists.

2Vermont · « **Reply #34 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:21:38 AM »

Quote from: rosarytrad on February 08, 2024, 09:51:20 PM

The Dimonds played a major role in my conversion also. I love their style. What can I say? 🤷‍♂️ They made it plain for me to make the decision to stop being an “indulter” and be an actual Catholic. And they promote the rosary a ton. My Godfather and I use a phrase to describe The Dimonds and others like them. Haha. “Straight up black coffee!” 😆 although the Dimonds might be better described as a shot of espresso.

They played a major role in my husband's conversion as well, and his conversion played a huge role in mine. I'm not a "Dimond fan", but I'm also not a "Dimond hater" either.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:27:43 AM »

Quote from: AnthonyPadua on February 08, 2024, 10:11:32 PM

The main thing with the OP post is that the Dimonds to not handle criticism well. A lot of the tricks can be explained with natural reasons after some googling, their response to such criticism is one of the issues they have overall as this is not a one time thing.

I agree with the first point, disagree with the second. Yes, the Dimond Brothers could do better to deal with criticism, but one has to realized that no personalities related to Traditional Catholicism have been more hated, more attacked, and more maligned than the Dimond Brothers.

As for natural reasons for "a lot" of the tricks shown in their videos, I disagree. There's always tons of speculation out there about how some tricks are done, but they nearly always fall short. I recently saw one where they were trying to explain how Copperfield is going to make the moon "disappear", and all the proposed explanations were lame.

For nearly all the material in the Dimonds' video about the magicians, barring total CGI or camera tricks, there's no plausible natural explanation for them ... and in many cases that's ruled out by live audiences and public performances. We have the magicians themselves boasting of how they work with entities, spirits, and some cases they admit demons, in performing their tricks.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #36 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:36:02 AM »

And what exactly is wrong with their response? They're right. We see it in action on this thread.

Quote

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Pt. I, Q. 110, A. 4, Reply to Obj. 2: “So when the demons do anything of their own natural power, these things are called miracles not in an absolute sense, but in reference to ourselves. In this way the magicians work miracles through the demons; and these are said to be done by private contracts…”

St. John Eudes, Man's Contract With God In Baptism, 17th century: “… those who hold communication with him [i.e. the Devil]; such as sorcerers, magicians, or those who cure diseases, extinguish fires, and do other similar acts by his operation.”

Our two-hour docuмentary on magicians provides abundant evidence that many top magicians do things that are preternatural and require the assistance of evil spirits. Of course, as our video acknowledged, that’s not to say that every alleged ‘magic trick’ is spiritual. There are obviously tricks performed by deception and sleight-of-hand. But the top magicians regularly do MANY things (i.e. thousands of things) that require the assistance of evil spirits. Many people can recognize this obvious fact when they see the evidence. However, some people (including some who claim to be Catholic) simply cannot accept this, and they aggressively attack the idea. That’s because they have no supernatural faith whatsoever, and they cannot believe that such a thing could actually be happening in public in front of people. Yes, it is. Many of those people think they are wise and clever, and that those who claim magicians are doing anything with the assistance of evil spirits are fools. It’s just the opposite. Those people are utterly blind fools who cannot perceive basic reality and are duped by the stupid, non-explanations that a few people post online (which attempt to explain how certain things are performed naturally but don't actually explain it when you carefully scrutinize the supposed explanations). What those people also ignore or don’t know is that saints throughout history recognized that demonic magicians perform such feats with the assistance of spirits. This video shares a few quotes on that matter: https://endtimes.video/catholic-saints-against-magicians/

The fact that magicians can do this is also of course mentioned in the Book of Exodus. Why wouldn’t it be happening today, when the Devil is more active than in any other period of history?

There's nothing wrong with this response, and I agree with them 100%. For every famous magic trick, you can find a dozen speculative "stupid, non-explanations" that a few jokers post online that fail to explain the trick, and often contradict one another and, as the Brothers point out, "don't actually explain it when you carefully scrutinize the supposed explanations". Those too are driven by the compulsive need to reject the possibility of anything preter-natural.

Now, the one place where they exaggerate is where they claim that these types (several on this thread) have "no supernatural faith whatsoever", as someone can have supernatural faith, even if it's very weak.

What happens here is that we have people that refuse to admit that such things are possible and then apply confirmation bias to accepting the lame explanations people throw out there, which in turn also are motivated by a refusal to admit the existence of a spiritual non-visible creation.

2Vermont · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:39:51 AM »

I don't understand why anyone would claim that all magic tricks are explainable/not aided by the Devil, demons etc. Just take a look at the supposed Novus Ordo "miracles".

Ladislaus · « **Reply #38 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:52:22 AM »

I'll give just one example of a lame/stupid explanation. So, with regard to the levitation while touching a stick, someone posted the video of an Oriental guy who made this apparatus out of a solid metal frame that was attached through his sleeve, etc. So this required a solid metal apparatus and required contact with the shovel he was using in lieu of a wooden stick.

But the examples in the Dimond video featuring the one guy who did this trick showed him picking up his mat and moving to a different location ... no apparatus to be seen, just a simple mat, and then at a different time, not using any kind of stick but just putting his hand on some man's head, and also at other times holding onto nothing. Even the posters on the video of the woman doing it on the street pointed out that the explanation doesn't work, because that woman also LET GO of her stick where you could see separation between her hand and the stick ... which is not possible given the Oriental guy's apparatus that "explains" it.

So here's one epic fail explanation. And the same holds of probably 98% of them, where people who refuse to believe in the invisible world and that individuals make deals with the devil, accept these explanations due to prior confirmation bias without actually looking into the flaws and problems with the explanation. It's the same thing with the Flat Earth issue, where confirmation bias and prior belief seems to filter out all rationality.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #39 on:** February 09, 2024, 06:58:15 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on February 09, 2024, 06:39:51 AM

I don't understand why anyone would claim that all magic tricks are explainable/not aided by the Devil, demons etc. Just take a look at the supposed Novus Ordo "miracles".

I understand. It's precisely because of what the Dimond Brothers said, that people have very little actual faith in the invisible world, and so the assume there MUST be some natural explanation for ALL magic tricks, and so in their confirmation bias they filter out the possibility that demons could be involved. Satanists/Luciferians are EVERYWHERE today. On the Dimond video, many of them admit as much and boast of their cooperation with demons. One guy in particular (Dynamo) was a lame nothing of a magician, and one of his close friends testified that after he had a close brush with death (due to a medical condition), he became obsessed with not dying before being remembered and making a name for himself, and that he went out into the woods for some days, "made some deal with the devil", and came back somehow doing astonishing tricks and becoming famous. Many of them admit to studying the occult and witchcraft, and conjuring demons. Some of them admit to studying Voodoo and participating in Voodoo rites where dead people were animated. We have Catholic missionaries who attest to the diabolical Voodoo practices they encountered.

Many of them also blaphemously do parodies of Our Lord's miracles: walking on water, making fish and loaves appear out of nothing, levitating in the air while posing in the manner of Our Lord on the cross, referring to levitation as their "Ascension", and the one guy calling himself "Jabreezus" and making his own "Scripture" verses. This is all being done by the demons not because they want to do some favors for these magicians, but because they want to disparage the miracles performed by Our Lord. "Look, these guys doing the same things that Jesus is said to have done. Jesus too was nothing but a street magician (performing His tricks using the same allegedly natural techniques)." That's the entire point of this, to disparage Our Lord's miracles.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2024, 07:15:06 AM »

One other example. They show a "Magic Secrets Revealed" episode allegedly showing how Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China.

That's an epic fail.

They claim that a double slips into the curtained area. Problem: For Copperfield, there were observers on top of the Great Wall who would have seen this.

They claim that the actual magician slips into a trapped door into an area beneath the platform. Problem: there was clearly no area beneath the platform, since you could see the assistants through the bottom on the other side.

They claim that the magician gets wheeled away in the stairs leading up to the platform. Problem: you can see that the stairs are just stairs and there's no way a person could fit into them (there's no hidden compartment in the stair).

They claim that they wheel the stairs around the other side of the wall (they used some shipping containers to simulate). Problem: Great Wall of China is miles long and there's no way to simply wheel Copperfield around to the other side. They would have had to lift him over the wall somehow, but again there were observers on top who would have seen him come back in.

In the alleged explanation, they rely on the fact that the observers could only see one side of the apparatus, but there were observers all around it for Copperfield, on compartments under the platform and in the staircase, being wheeled around to the other side, none of which would have been possible for the Copperfield version.

Copperfield admits to holding the largest collection of occult artifacts in the world (valued at hundreds of millions of dollars), including many books on magic, witchcraft, and sorcery.

So the "Magic Secrets Revealed" alleged explanation is an epic fail and does not come close to explaining Copperfield's version.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #41 on:** February 09, 2024, 07:16:48 AM »

These are just two examples of the lame, stupid non-explanations that are easily debunked. People, however, assume ahead of time that there MUST be a natural explanation, and so they're ready to believe these things even though upon closer scrutiny they fail miserably.

Incredulous · « **Reply #42 on:** February 11, 2024, 11:06:55 AM »

Quote from: rosarytrad on February 08, 2024, 09:51:20 PM

The Dimonds played a major role in my conversion also. I love their style. What can I say? 🤷‍♂️ They made it plain for me to make the decision to stop being an “indulter” and be an actual Catholic. And they promote the rosary a ton. My Godfather and I use a phrase to describe The Dimonds and others like them. Haha. “Straight up black coffee!” 😆 although the Dimonds might be better described as a shot of espresso.

And I love the Dimond video on the magicians. Is everything in stage or street magic performed with the help of demons? I’d wager no. HOWEVER, the posters and pictures of magicians with demons whispering in their ears seems to explain how some of these guys are able to “read minds.” That part is sort of terrifying to me. I think demons are essential to a top selling magicians act at the end of the day.

The other part from the Dimond video that intrigued me was that magician Dynamo and his name being taken from Manly P Halls book. Dynamo uses “heat” from his hand to impress an image of it into glass… it is an inversion of that story of the soul in purgatory doing something similar into a piece of wood. The Burnt Hand of Foligno: https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=BOSTONSH18940707-01.2.77&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-------

I would agree that “Dimond production’s” topics are quite interesting and relevant to the trad Catholic scene, yet I still classify them as “dark sedes”.

The meaning of “dark sede” is, in their theology, everything… all trad Sacraments are invalid.

Over the years, they have surely monitored their audience and adjusted and perfected their writing craft to present popular articles.

But their fishy, non Catholic origins and dark sede agenda is what concerns me.

For example:

I recently revisited their archives for their classic Fatima article of 2006, where they made the slickest set of arguments claiming the Fatima consecration was a done deal.

This article is a masterpiece of deceit. I’m sure they never renounced their position on it.

A priest once told me one of his Louisiana parishioners tried to set an appointment to visit the Dimond compound.
No way we’re they going to allow anyone to see their monastic “writers shop.”

Like most Marrano media operations (Mikey Voris, Taylor (Jєω) Marshall, the Dimonds are positioned to divert, mislead and to put us into despair.

Based on their profound level of media output, I’ve always envisioned the Dimond monastery to be filled Jєω writers and kippah headed video producers 😉

Ladislaus · « **Reply #43 on:** February 11, 2024, 11:16:05 AM »

Quote from: Incredulous on February 11, 2024, 11:06:55 AM

The meaning of “dark sede” is, in their theology, everything… all trad Sacraments are invalid.

What? They've never held any such thing. In fact, for some years they were even going to Eastern Rite to receive the Sacraments.

Incredulous · « **Reply #44 on:** February 11, 2024, 08:33:37 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 11, 2024, 11:16:05 AM

What? They've never held any such thing. In fact, for some years they were even going to Eastern Rite to receive the Sacraments.

They surely have.

Your disagreement with me on this important point is similar to your insistence that Gerry Matatics did not evangelize the same.

It is well known that Gerry (another Dark sede) didn’t seek a priest for his wife’s last Sacraments because he and she held them to be invalid.

Author Topic: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group? (Read 13870 times)

AnthonyPadua

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

rosarytrad

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

AnthonyPadua

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

2Vermont

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

2Vermont

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Incredulous

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Ladislaus

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?

Incredulous

Re: Dimonds double down on magicans - and new sedevacantist group?