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Author Topic: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"  (Read 240538 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2025, 08:13:04 AM »
Not only that, but their radical view of the "una cuм" position becomes even MORE ABSURD when you consider their sedeprivationist position.  Since for them Leo (and his Conciliar predecessors) were MATERIAL popes, i.e. in material possession of office, so, what now? ... a priest who decides that material possesson of the office suffices to put the name into the Canon ... that person is now a heretical sacrilegous blaspheming Satanic heretic also?
So ultimately, they are NOT sedeprivationists, but dogmatic sedes.  I've been saying this for years.  While in THEORY, they pay lip service to privationism and distinctions, in PRACTICE, the 'una cuм' issue makes them dogmatic sedes. 

This is how people who attend their masses think, as i've been told repeatedly i'm a heretic for attending 'una cuм' masses.  This also applies to other "middle of the road" sedes (i.e. Fr Jenkins).  Entire families have been split up (and don't talk to each other) over the 'una cuм' issue and the priests do nothing.

They are all dogmatic sedes.  And this is a MAJOR problem of bad thinking.

Then, on the other hand, the alternative is the new-sspx with their bad thinking.

The devil has done his work well.  Both major factions of Tradition are on opposite extremes, and both have bad thinking.  The world has gone nuts.

p.s.  Both the new-sspx and Bishop Sanborn had no objections to the jab.  Another proof of bad, horrid, awful thinking.

Re: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2025, 08:55:30 AM »
Thoughts?
Sir:

I suggest you to read what Fr. Guérard des Lauriers had to say about the una cuм issue:

Interview with Bishop Guérard des Lauriers o.p. on the Thesis of Cassiciacuм – Sodalitium

TLDR: A Mass celebrated "una cuм" non-popes is objectively tainted with sacrilege and the crime of capital schism. However, there are some circuмstances under which the faithful may be allowed to assist due to the risks of total deprivation of the sacraments.

Fr. Hervé Belmont, formerly a disciple of GdL, elaborates that one may assist provided that there are really no other options, that the Mass is celebrated by a validly ordained and "serious" priest and that one protests internally before God that one does not believe that Leo XIV is pope. See the attached docuмent. Google translate it if you don't know French, I'm not aware that there are any English translations.

Fr. Guérard des Lauriers is the one who originally analyzed this issue. Sanborn, Cekada, Dolan, the IMBC et c. all got it from him. He was a theological "heavy weight". Search his credentials elsewhere. It is commonly believed that he was the ghostwriter of the "Ottaviani Intervention". I've always found odd how trads appreciate the Ottaviani Intervention, but ignore everything else that he thought and wrote.

May Our Lady keep you under her mantle.

EDIT: I realized that the attachment is not signed by Fr. Belmont. Here's where you may find it on his website: L’enjeu de l’una cuм - Quicuмque - Abbé Hervé Belmont


Re: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2025, 09:27:57 AM »
Fr. Hervé Belmont... elaborates that one may assist provided that... one protests internally before God that one does not believe that Leo XIV is pope. See the attached docuмent.
After a quick read of the attachment, I couldn't find the mention of the necessity of the internal protest. Fr. probably said that somewhere else, so please, search his website. He did say that to me in an email. Sorry about the confusion. The attachment is still worth a read. PAX!

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2025, 09:31:47 AM »
TLDR: A Mass celebrated "una cuм" non-popes is objectively tainted with sacrilege and the crime of capital schism.
Well....duh...

But the Sedes are committing the logical fallacy of "begging the question" because they assume that it's verifiable, unquestionable, dogmatic fact that the V2 popes are non-popes.

To go back to +Sanborn, he believes in sedeprivationism, which means that the V2 popes are "partial popes" or "material popes".  That's NOT the same thing as a non-pope.  So even if des Lauriers was 100% correct on his assertion of "non popes", the debate that's been going on for 50 years is around this question:

Taking John XXIII as an example:

1.  Was he validly elected and then became a non-pope due to heresy of V2?
2.  Was he a heretic before his election and then ineligible for the papacy?
3.  Was he materially elected only, but not spiritually, due to heresy?
4.  Was he spiritually the pope for a few days, until his first heresy?  Then he lost his spiritual authority and remained a material pope only?
5.  Some combination of the above?

No one knows the above, because it's never happened in history.  And no 2 sedes agree on the above, or can explain it.  Nor do we have enough facts to know if John23 was a mason before, or a heretic before, or only after.  Nor can anyone agree on WHEN he fell into heresy absolutely, except to say "well, due to V2".  But V2 lasted 3+ years.  So saying he became a heretic "in a 3 year period" is hardly a determining statement.

So, yes, we all know the popes are "non popes" but no one can agree in the degree, or when, or exactly why (all we know is, they are heretics).  So you can't apply some moral criteria to people (i.e. 'una cuм') which is a damnable offense (in your opinion) when you can't even tell these people the conditions on when, where, why and how the popes became 'non popes'.

Saying they are 'non popes' is just overly simplistic and rather elementary.  It's the easy way out.  Explaining it is anyone's guess.  And that's why the 'una cuм' is a fail.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Bishop Sanborn on the "Una Cuм"
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2025, 09:44:46 AM »
TLDR: A Mass celebrated "una cuм" non-popes is objectively tainted with sacrilege and the crime of capital schism. However, there are some circuмstances under which the faithful may be allowed to assist due to the risks of total deprivation of the sacraments.
Again, the idea that they are non-popes is an opinion, it is only a private judgement. Unless a future pope declares otherwise, it can never be anything other than a private judgement. 

What Fr. Guérard des Lauriers is saying would ONLY apply if they inserted someone else's name other than the pope's name.

  

Quote
Fr. Hervé Belmont, formerly a disciple of GdL, elaborates that one may assist provided that there are really no other options, that the Mass is celebrated by a validly ordained and "serious" priest and that one protests internally before God that one does not believe that Leo XIV is pope. See the attached docuмent. Google translate it if you don't know French, I'm not aware that there are any English translations.
This is beyond ridiculous. To think one avoids sin as long as they "protest internally before God that one does not believe that Leo XIV is pope." :facepalm: