Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?  (Read 10334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nadir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11934
  • Reputation: +7293/-500
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2024, 10:43:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • After rereading what Francis said, in all fairness, strictly speaking he is not telling anyone to violate the rules of fast or abstinence, either traditional (which he surely didn't have in mind) or Newchurch.  Even under the traditional interpretation, meat is not absolutely forbidden on days that are not Friday or Ash Wednesday, and Sundays are never a day of fast or abstinence.  He spoke of Lent in general, not necessarily Ash Wednesdays and Fridays.  Even under the traditional rules (which, as I said, he surely didn't have in mind), you could take meat at the one full main meal on any days not Ash Wednesday or Friday.

    But, as with so many things he says, they can be misunderstood even if, strictly speaking, they are not heterodox or dismissive of Church discipline.  Popes should not be confusing.  They should just clearly say what's on their minds.
    So what did he say, Simple? I can’t access either of the given links.
    And jr1991 gave no information of date or occasion.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46904
    • Reputation: +27774/-5163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #16 on: February 20, 2024, 05:14:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • He spoke of Lent in general, not necessarily Ash Wednesdays and Fridays.

    That sounds a lot like Popesplaining to me (assuming for a moment that the quote is legitimate).  Bergoglio is a master of throwing things out there that he knows will be interpreted one way by a majority of those who read it or hear about it.  Most people are going to take this as referring to the Novus Ordo fasting rules, that they don't really matter, even if he leaves enough room for the Popesplainers (or, rather, Antipopesplainers) to explain it away.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18429
    • Reputation: +5728/-1975
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #17 on: February 20, 2024, 05:27:34 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Strange how initially it said “Easter” but the above says “Lent”. 

    Was this AI?



    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11528
    • Reputation: +6476/-1195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #18 on: February 20, 2024, 06:09:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Strange how initially it said “Easter” but the above says “Lent”. 

    Yes.

    Here is the Snopes article on this:

    Fact Check: Posts Claim Pope Francis Said 'Eat Whatever You Want For Easter.' Here's the Truth (msn.com)

    and

    Here is Francis' Message on the Vatican site:

    Message of the Holy Father Francis for Lent 2024 (vatican.va)

    This quote doesn't appear to be true.

    EDIT:  I just saw that the signed date on the Vatican docuмent is December 3, 2023 and says, "First Sunday of Advent".  What the heck is going on?  

    I was unable to find this docuмent on the Vatican website.

    01 (vatican.va)

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46904
    • Reputation: +27774/-5163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #19 on: February 20, 2024, 06:30:56 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is the Snopes article on this:

    Snopes is worthless as it's nothing more than a disinformation operation backed by the government to debunk various "conspiracy theories".  While I don't think this particular quote is genuine, Snopes is garbage and means nothing.


    Offline CatholicChris

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 73
    • Reputation: +32/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #20 on: February 20, 2024, 06:45:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I do find it funny that people will keep the Friday abstinence during lent but barely attend mass and go without confession for decades. 

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11528
    • Reputation: +6476/-1195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #21 on: February 20, 2024, 06:46:45 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Then why did you start this thread? Nothing better to do?
    I'm actually glad he did.  Something very off about all of this.  Not only does the quote seem false, but the proof of that (the Vatican docuмent) seems falsified.

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11934
    • Reputation: +7293/-500
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #22 on: February 20, 2024, 02:47:01 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm actually glad he did.  Something very off about all of this.  Not only does the quote seem false, but the proof of that (the Vatican docuмent) seems falsified.
    Yes, something is very off. My point is, one ought to check sources before publishing. We don't need more confusion than is necessary. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline Seraphina

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4257
    • Reputation: +3244/-343
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #23 on: February 20, 2024, 03:16:41 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is a NO priest online who says self abuse isn’t a mortal sin and only mortal sins are to be told in confession.
    What does self abuse have to do with the He topic of this thread?

    Offline Seraphina

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4257
    • Reputation: +3244/-343
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #24 on: February 20, 2024, 03:52:13 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • In a sense, it’s correct that eating beef stew doesn’t send a person to hell, and it’s correct that  committing mortal sins against charity will send a person to hell.  Bergoglio again misses the point. If the quote is really from him, it displays a gross misunderstanding of the Faith.  
    It’s also insulting to sincere Catholics who he should encourage to fast, abstain, give alms, and make sacrifices during Lent.  The statement assumes we’re all hypocrites, committing serious sins while believing we’re pleasing to God by following Church Law.  Obviously, BOTH are necessary for Catholics.  
    His mind is attuned to pagans who are invincibly ignorant, but trying to follow Natural Law.  He wants Catholics to imitate them rather than convert them to the Truth. That is NOT charity!

    Offline Jr1991

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 719
    • Reputation: +327/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #25 on: February 20, 2024, 04:11:42 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is a Lenten message from Bergoglio from 2015. Let the downvotes begin Lol.  Before anyone criticizes me for using the National Catholic reporter as a source, the Vatican has the same transcript online.

    Pope: Don't let meatless Fridays be selfish and soulless, a seafood splurge

    Real fasting isn't just restricting food choices. It must also include cleansing the heart of all selfishness and making room in one's life for those in need and those who have sinned and need healing, Pope Francis said.

    Faith without concrete acts of charity is not only hypocritical, "it is dead. What good is it?" he asked, criticizing those who hide behind a veil of piety while unjustly treating others, such as denying workers fair wages, a pension and health care.

    Being generous toward the church but selfish and unjust toward others "is a very serious sin: It is using God to cover up injustice," he said Friday during his homily in a morning Mass celebrated in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae, where he lives.

    The pope's homily was based on the day's reading from the Book of Isaiah in which God tells his people he does not care for those who observe penance passively -- bowed "like a reed," lying quietly in a "sackcloth and ashes."

    Instead, God says he desires to see his people crying out "full-throated and unsparingly" against injustice and sin, "setting free the oppressed, breaking every yoke; sharing your bread with the hungry, sheltering the oppressed and the homeless." In the reading, God also points out the hypocrisy of the faithful who fast but treat their workers badly and fight and quarrel with others.

    Pope Francis said Lent is about fulfilling all commandments both toward God and others, according to reports from Vatican Radio and the Vatican newspaper.

    Lent is not about the formal observance of "doing a little whatever" and not eating meat on Fridays while giving oneself free reign to "grow in selfishness, exploit others and ignore the poor," he said.

    There might be someone who thinks, "Today is Friday, I can't eat meat, but I'm going to have a nice plate of seafood, a real banquet," which, while appearing to be an abstinence from meat, is the sin of gluttony, the pope said.

    Another person might say: "I am a great Catholic, Father, I like it a lot. I always go to Mass every Sunday, I receive Communion," to which, the pope said he would reply, "Great, and how is your relationship with your workers? Do you pay them under the table? Do you give them a fair wage? Do you contribute toward their pension? To their health insurance and social services?"

    Some people may regularly make financial contributions to the church, but, the pope asked, how generous are they toward their loved ones and their dependents? Are they generous and just to them, too, he asked.

    People cannot "make offerings to the church on the back of injustice," he said. "It is not a good Christian who doesn't do justice to the people who depend on him" and who does not "deprive himself of something essential for him in order to give it to another who is in need."

    "This is the distinction between formal and real," he said, which Jesus underlined, too, when he condemned the Pharisees and doctors of the law, who adhered to "many external observances but without the truth of the heart."

    Unfortunately, he said, many "men and women have faith but they separate the tablets of law," that is, they obey the first commandments and obligations to God while ignoring or being selective about the rest of the commandments concerning others.

    "They are united: Love toward God and love to your neighbor are one, and if you want to practice real, not formal, penance, you have to do it before God and also with your brother and sister, your neighbor," he said.

    The pope asked that during Lent, people think about what they can do for people who are in very difficult situations, for example, to help "children and the elderly who don't have the possibility of being seen by a doctor."

    Perhaps they have to wait "eight hours to be seen and then they give them an appointment for the week after," he said.

    "What will you do for these people? What will your Lent be like?"

    He also asked people to make room in their hearts for those who have sinned, those who "have made mistakes and are in jail."

    To those who may protest about associating with people who have been imprisoned, the pope said, "He is in jail, but you -- if you are not in jail, it is because the Lord helped you to not fall." Pray for them, he said, so that the Lord may help them turn their lives around.


    https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-dont-let-meatless-fridays-be-selfish-and-soulless-seafood-splurge




    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5021
    • Reputation: +1960/-245
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #26 on: February 20, 2024, 06:57:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That sounds a lot like Popesplaining to me (assuming for a moment that the quote is legitimate).  Bergoglio is a master of throwing things out there that he knows will be interpreted one way by a majority of those who read it or hear about it.  Most people are going to take this as referring to the Novus Ordo fasting rules, that they don't really matter, even if he leaves enough room for the Popesplainers (or, rather, Antipopesplainers) to explain it away.

    I don't know.  Anyone who tries to "popesplain" Francis has their work cut out for them.  I wouldn't try it, let's just put it that way.

    I get the "vibe" from him, that he always said to himself, "if I were Pope, I'd do X, Y, and Z" (I've done the same thing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one), and now that he actually does occupy the papal chair, he's determined to take a cue from Frank Sinatra, and "do it his way".  Kind of a variation on the theme of "if I won the lottery, I'd...".

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11528
    • Reputation: +6476/-1195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #27 on: February 21, 2024, 06:44:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, something is very off. My point is, one ought to check sources before publishing. We don't need more confusion than is necessary.
    I understand.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18429
    • Reputation: +5728/-1975
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #28 on: February 21, 2024, 07:01:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What does self abuse have to do with the He topic of this thread?
    There are priests saying it’s ok to being to be a sodomite.    There are priests saying everyone is going to heaven and there is no hell.  It too came up on my thread about this priest saying that a certain mortal sin wasn’t mortal sin. That is how it is related to the thread.  It demonstrated how there are more and more false Catholic information getting promoted online  while true Catholicism is being buried or erased.

    Fake or not, the docuмent has already done damage and made news.  If it wasn’t true then the Vatican would have sent out notice to correct it.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18429
    • Reputation: +5728/-1975
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whatever they want for Lent?
    « Reply #29 on: February 22, 2024, 02:25:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I thought we have to confess both Venial and mortal sins in the confessional. 


    May God bless you and keep you