Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Jr1991 on February 19, 2024, 01:24:25 PM
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I don’t know how accurate this information is or if it’s true, but several reports claim that Bergoglio said this in one of his Lenten messages. One thing that leads me to believe that it is true is the MSM is coming to his defense.
"Eat whatever you want for Lent. The sacrifice is not in the stomach, but in the heart. They refrain from eating meat, but don't talk to their siblings or relatives, don't visit their parents or bother to attend to them. They Don't share food with the needy, they forbid children to see their father, forbid grandparents to see their grandchildren, criticize other people's lives, beat their wife, etc..
A good barbeque or beef stew won't make you a bad person, just like a fish fillet won't turn you into a saint.
Better seek to have a deeper relationship with God through better treatment of others Let's be less arrogant and more humble at heart.
Pope Francis
https://www.facebook.com/457521318996429/posts/1119845586097329
Fact Check: Posts Claim Pope Francis Said 'Eat Whatever You Want For Easter.' Here's the Truth (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fact-check-posts-claim-pope-francis-said-eat-whatever-you-want-for-easter-heres-the-truth/ar-BB1itlG7)
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I don’t know how accurate this information is or if it’s true, but several reports claim that Bergoglio said this in one of his Lenten messages. One thing that leads me to believe that it is true is the MSM is coming to his defense.
"Eat whatever you want for Lent. The sacrifice is not in the stomach, but in the heart. They refrain from eating meat, but don't talk to their siblings or relatives, don't visit their parents or bother to attend to them. They Don't share food with the needy, they forbid children to see their father, forbid grandparents to see their grandchildren, criticize other people's lives, beat their wife, etc..
A good barbeque or beef stew won't make you a bad person, just like a fish fillet won't turn you into a saint.
Better seek to have a deeper relationship with God through better treatment of others Let's be less arrogant and more humble at heart.
Pope Francis
https://www.facebook.com/457521318996429/posts/1119845586097329
Fact Check: Posts Claim Pope Francis Said 'Eat Whatever You Want For Easter.' Here's the Truth (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fact-check-posts-claim-pope-francis-said-eat-whatever-you-want-for-easter-heres-the-truth/ar-BB1itlG7)
Absolute stercorum equii.
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There is a NO priest online who says self abuse isn’t a mortal sin and only mortal sins are to be told in confession.
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There is a NO priest online who says self abuse isn’t a mortal sin and only mortal sins are to be told in confession.
True, you only HAVE to confess mortal sins, but I'm afraid onanism is one of them.
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I must admit, even if it's not true, the quote is definitely something I can see him saying.
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I must admit, even if it's not true, the quote is definitely something I can see him saying.
Right, absolutely 100% authentic Bergoglian thinking ... whether or not he said it this time.
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I don’t know how accurate this information is or if it’s true,
Then why did you start this thread? Nothing better to do?
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Then why did you start this thread? Nothing better to do?
Because it showed up as one of the top stories on my news feed, would it be surprising to you that he made such a statement?
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Because it showed up as one of the top stories on my news feed, would it be surprising to you that he made such a statement?
Your question is irelevent and your reason is strange. It reminds me of a tenant we once had who cut down one of our trees. When asked why he did it, he answered, “I had a chainsaw in my hand.”
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Your question is irelevent and your reason is strange. It reminds me of a tenant we once had who cut down one of our trees. When asked why he did it, he answered, “I had a chainsaw in my hand.”
You asked me a question, and I answered it—now, can you answer mine? Would you be surprised if Bergoglio said something like what was quoted?
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By the way, you might want to reread my comment. The thread's title had a question mark, and my comment indicated that I did not know if the quote was true or false. If you want to take the MSM at face value, that's up to you.
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Because it showed up as one of the top stories on my news feed, would it be surprising to you that he made such a statement?
Look, I (or my aging eyes, or my imperfect reading glasses) read the truncated subject line on the main page list of Recent Posts as "Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whale..." At first I figured it was some weird muskrat sort of dispensation for Canadian so-called First Nations or whatever.
Obviously after clicking in and reading the actual post, I was mistaken.
What's my point? That all of this easily turns into a children's game of telephone. Verified actual statements on record are bad enough, as if there haven't been truly serious whoppers galore. No need to go chasing after bottom-of-the-barrel silliness that gets the attention of liberal Snopes.
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Look, I (or my aging eyes, or my imperfect reading glasses) read the truncated subject line on the main page list of Recent Posts as "Bergoglio tells Catholics to eat whale..." At first I figured it was some weird muskrat sort of dispensation for Canadian so-called First Nations or whatever.
Obviously after clicking in and reading the actual post, I was mistaken.
What's my point? That all of this easily turns into a children's game of telephone. Verified actual statements on record are bad enough, as if there haven't been truly serious whoppers galore. No need to go chasing after bottom-of-the-barrel silliness that gets the attention of liberal Snopes.
Right, That’s what I also thought when I read that he told Scalfari that Hell does not exist and your soul just disappears. At first, I thought it was a joke until there was no clarification from the Vatican, which told me it was true.
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Right, That’s what I also thought when I read that he told Scalfari that Hell does not exist and your soul just disappears. At first, I thought it was a joke until there was no clarification from the Vatican, which told me it was true.
OK, but pretty much nothing that he and his henchmen say surprises me anymore. Just another day in clown world.
On the other hand, it'd be an earth-shattering shock if suddenly he started to sound like, say, Pope Leo XIII. Then we'd really need verified fact-checkers.
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Absolute stercorum equii.
After rereading what Francis said, in all fairness, strictly speaking he is not telling anyone to violate the rules of fast or abstinence, either traditional (which he surely didn't have in mind) or Newchurch. Even under the traditional interpretation, meat is not absolutely forbidden on days that are not Friday or Ash Wednesday, and Sundays are never a day of fast or abstinence. He spoke of Lent in general, not necessarily Ash Wednesdays and Fridays. Even under the traditional rules (which, as I said, he surely didn't have in mind), you could take meat at the one full main meal on any days not Ash Wednesday or Friday.
But, as with so many things he says, they can be misunderstood even if, strictly speaking, they are not heterodox or dismissive of Church discipline. Popes should not be confusing. They should just clearly say what's on their minds.
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After rereading what Francis said, in all fairness, strictly speaking he is not telling anyone to violate the rules of fast or abstinence, either traditional (which he surely didn't have in mind) or Newchurch. Even under the traditional interpretation, meat is not absolutely forbidden on days that are not Friday or Ash Wednesday, and Sundays are never a day of fast or abstinence. He spoke of Lent in general, not necessarily Ash Wednesdays and Fridays. Even under the traditional rules (which, as I said, he surely didn't have in mind), you could take meat at the one full main meal on any days not Ash Wednesday or Friday.
But, as with so many things he says, they can be misunderstood even if, strictly speaking, they are not heterodox or dismissive of Church discipline. Popes should not be confusing. They should just clearly say what's on their minds.
So what did he say, Simple? I can’t access either of the given links.
And jr1991 gave no information of date or occasion.
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He spoke of Lent in general, not necessarily Ash Wednesdays and Fridays.
That sounds a lot like Popesplaining to me (assuming for a moment that the quote is legitimate). Bergoglio is a master of throwing things out there that he knows will be interpreted one way by a majority of those who read it or hear about it. Most people are going to take this as referring to the Novus Ordo fasting rules, that they don't really matter, even if he leaves enough room for the Popesplainers (or, rather, Antipopesplainers) to explain it away.
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Strange how initially it said “Easter” but the above says “Lent”.
Was this AI?
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Strange how initially it said “Easter” but the above says “Lent”.
Yes.
Here is the Snopes article on this:
Fact Check: Posts Claim Pope Francis Said 'Eat Whatever You Want For Easter.' Here's the Truth (msn.com)
(https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fact-check-posts-claim-pope-francis-said-eat-whatever-you-want-for-easter-heres-the-truth/ar-BB1itlG7)and
Here is Francis' Message on the Vatican site:
Message of the Holy Father Francis for Lent 2024 (vatican.va)
(https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2024/02/01/240201c.html)This quote doesn't appear to be true.
EDIT: I just saw that the signed date on the Vatican docuмent is December 3, 2023 and says, "First Sunday of Advent". What the heck is going on?
I was unable to find this docuмent on the Vatican website.
01 (vatican.va) (https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2024/01.html)
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Here is the Snopes article on this:
Snopes is worthless as it's nothing more than a disinformation operation backed by the government to debunk various "conspiracy theories". While I don't think this particular quote is genuine, Snopes is garbage and means nothing.
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I do find it funny that people will keep the Friday abstinence during lent but barely attend mass and go without confession for decades.
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Then why did you start this thread? Nothing better to do?
I'm actually glad he did. Something very off about all of this. Not only does the quote seem false, but the proof of that (the Vatican docuмent) seems falsified.
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I'm actually glad he did. Something very off about all of this. Not only does the quote seem false, but the proof of that (the Vatican docuмent) seems falsified.
Yes, something is very off. My point is, one ought to check sources before publishing. We don't need more confusion than is necessary.
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There is a NO priest online who says self abuse isn’t a mortal sin and only mortal sins are to be told in confession.
What does self abuse have to do with the He topic of this thread?
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In a sense, it’s correct that eating beef stew doesn’t send a person to hell, and it’s correct that committing mortal sins against charity will send a person to hell. Bergoglio again misses the point. If the quote is really from him, it displays a gross misunderstanding of the Faith.
It’s also insulting to sincere Catholics who he should encourage to fast, abstain, give alms, and make sacrifices during Lent. The statement assumes we’re all hypocrites, committing serious sins while believing we’re pleasing to God by following Church Law. Obviously, BOTH are necessary for Catholics.
His mind is attuned to pagans who are invincibly ignorant, but trying to follow Natural Law. He wants Catholics to imitate them rather than convert them to the Truth. That is NOT charity!
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Here is a Lenten message from Bergoglio from 2015. Let the downvotes begin Lol. Before anyone criticizes me for using the National Catholic reporter as a source, the Vatican has the same transcript online.
Pope: Don't let meatless Fridays be selfish and soulless, a seafood splurge
Real fasting isn't just restricting food choices. It must also include cleansing the heart of all selfishness and making room in one's life for those in need and those who have sinned and need healing, Pope Francis said.
Faith without concrete acts of charity is not only hypocritical, "it is dead. What good is it?" he asked, criticizing those who hide behind a veil of piety while unjustly treating others, such as denying workers fair wages, a pension and health care.
Being generous toward the church but selfish and unjust toward others "is a very serious sin: It is using God to cover up injustice," he said Friday during his homily in a morning Mass celebrated in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae, where he lives.
The pope's homily was based on the day's reading from the Book of Isaiah in which God tells his people he does not care for those who observe penance passively -- bowed "like a reed," lying quietly in a "sackcloth and ashes."
Instead, God says he desires to see his people crying out "full-throated and unsparingly" against injustice and sin, "setting free the oppressed, breaking every yoke; sharing your bread with the hungry, sheltering the oppressed and the homeless." In the reading, God also points out the hypocrisy of the faithful who fast but treat their workers badly and fight and quarrel with others.
Pope Francis said Lent is about fulfilling all commandments both toward God and others, according to reports from Vatican Radio and the Vatican newspaper.
Lent is not about the formal observance of "doing a little whatever" and not eating meat on Fridays while giving oneself free reign to "grow in selfishness, exploit others and ignore the poor," he said.
There might be someone who thinks, "Today is Friday, I can't eat meat, but I'm going to have a nice plate of seafood, a real banquet," which, while appearing to be an abstinence from meat, is the sin of gluttony, the pope said.
Another person might say: "I am a great Catholic, Father, I like it a lot. I always go to Mass every Sunday, I receive Communion," to which, the pope said he would reply, "Great, and how is your relationship with your workers? Do you pay them under the table? Do you give them a fair wage? Do you contribute toward their pension? To their health insurance and social services?"
Some people may regularly make financial contributions to the church, but, the pope asked, how generous are they toward their loved ones and their dependents? Are they generous and just to them, too, he asked.
People cannot "make offerings to the church on the back of injustice," he said. "It is not a good Christian who doesn't do justice to the people who depend on him" and who does not "deprive himself of something essential for him in order to give it to another who is in need."
"This is the distinction between formal and real," he said, which Jesus underlined, too, when he condemned the Pharisees and doctors of the law, who adhered to "many external observances but without the truth of the heart."
Unfortunately, he said, many "men and women have faith but they separate the tablets of law," that is, they obey the first commandments and obligations to God while ignoring or being selective about the rest of the commandments concerning others.
"They are united: Love toward God and love to your neighbor are one, and if you want to practice real, not formal, penance, you have to do it before God and also with your brother and sister, your neighbor," he said.
The pope asked that during Lent, people think about what they can do for people who are in very difficult situations, for example, to help "children and the elderly who don't have the possibility of being seen by a doctor."
Perhaps they have to wait "eight hours to be seen and then they give them an appointment for the week after," he said.
"What will you do for these people? What will your Lent be like?"
He also asked people to make room in their hearts for those who have sinned, those who "have made mistakes and are in jail."
To those who may protest about associating with people who have been imprisoned, the pope said, "He is in jail, but you -- if you are not in jail, it is because the Lord helped you to not fall." Pray for them, he said, so that the Lord may help them turn their lives around.
https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-dont-let-meatless-fridays-be-selfish-and-soulless-seafood-splurge
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That sounds a lot like Popesplaining to me (assuming for a moment that the quote is legitimate). Bergoglio is a master of throwing things out there that he knows will be interpreted one way by a majority of those who read it or hear about it. Most people are going to take this as referring to the Novus Ordo fasting rules, that they don't really matter, even if he leaves enough room for the Popesplainers (or, rather, Antipopesplainers) to explain it away.
I don't know. Anyone who tries to "popesplain" Francis has their work cut out for them. I wouldn't try it, let's just put it that way.
I get the "vibe" from him, that he always said to himself, "if I were Pope, I'd do X, Y, and Z" (I've done the same thing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one), and now that he actually does occupy the papal chair, he's determined to take a cue from Frank Sinatra, and "do it his way". Kind of a variation on the theme of "if I won the lottery, I'd...".
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Yes, something is very off. My point is, one ought to check sources before publishing. We don't need more confusion than is necessary.
I understand.
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What does self abuse have to do with the He topic of this thread?
There are priests saying it’s ok to being to be a sodomite. There are priests saying everyone is going to heaven and there is no hell. It too came up on my thread about this priest saying that a certain mortal sin wasn’t mortal sin. That is how it is related to the thread. It demonstrated how there are more and more false Catholic information getting promoted online while true Catholicism is being buried or erased.
Fake or not, the docuмent has already done damage and made news. If it wasn’t true then the Vatican would have sent out notice to correct it.
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I thought we have to confess both Venial and mortal sins in the confessional.
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I thought we have to confess both Venial and mortal sins in the confessional.
Only mortal sins are obliged to be confessed. Apart from the rare case of perfect contrition at the moment of death, only sacramental absolution can remit the guilt of mortal sin.
The guilt (and temporal punishment) of venial sin can be remitted through reception of Holy Communion, devoutly praying an Act of Contrition, and the pious use of Holy Water amongt other ways.
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Only mortal sins are obliged to be confessed. Apart from the rare case of perfect contrition at the moment of death, only sacramental absolution can remit the guilt of mortal sin.
The guilt (and temporal punishment) of venial sin can be remitted through reception of Holy Communion, devoutly praying an Act of Contrition, and the pious use of Holy Water amongt other ways.
Thank you, for this information.