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Author Topic: Benedict XVI dead at 95  (Read 20926 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
« Reply #270 on: January 07, 2023, 08:17:21 AM »
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  • Very interesting theory, I think it’s far fetched, but it is a possibility.
    We will soon have a similar "Ratzinger Theory" from the Bennyvacantists.  Brother Bugnolo is already stating that the Church will have a conclave in the next 30 days.  Of course, this won't happen, but they will believe that there is a hidden pope....Benny's true successor, of course.

    Within a Month, the Catholic Church will have a new Roman Pontiff | From Rome

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #271 on: January 07, 2023, 08:47:35 AM »
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  • Uhm, no, the Siri Theory is not the least bit far-fetched.  There's a significant amount of evidence for it.  One of the most succinct and yet comprehensive that I've seen is here:
    https://tinyurl.com/2p9rfpc5

    This doesn't consist of merely fantasizing about the smoke signals coming from within the conclave, although those help corroborate the abundance of other evidence in favor of the Theory.

    There are a number of independent sources, and one of them, Scortesco, a counsin of the Vatican Noble Guard, who were responsible for guarding the conclaves, was burned alive in his bed shortly after he published his letter with the details.

    Paul Williams, former FBI, wrote a book where he mentioned in passing, in a footnote, that Siri had been elected and had taken the name Gregory XVII, citing classified docuмents.  Williams is not a Catholic and didn't consider this particularly important.  While the docuмent has never been found, presumably RE-classified after the book, it's unlikely that Williams just made this up.  He gives the exact name and date of the docuмent and mentions a detail about the papal name, Gregory XVII ... that a non-Catholic wouldn't even understand the significance of, i.e. that it means he had accepted the election, and for him to land on "Gregory" as a non-Catholic was also unlikely.  We can hardly doubt that both the US and USSR had agents in the conclave reporting back to them.

    And it's the perfect plan, if you think about it.  Let Siri be elected (his election was considered a foregone conclusion, as he was considered THE papabile for that election), then force him out uncanonically, so that their agent would not legitimately hold office, and therefore would not be protected by the Holy Spirit.  These enemies of the Church had more "faith" in the protection of the Holy Spirit over the papacy than R&R do.  They knew that if Roncalli had been legitimately elected, that God would cause him to drop dead before he and his successors could damage the Church as much as they wanted to.  I look at this as the "uncanonically-elected pope" reference in the prophecy of St. Francis of Assisi, not Bergoglio.  Bergoglio was just the last in a line of illegitimate usurper Antipopes, who were not merely otherwise-sincere people with confused minds who got elected due to the overall liberalization of the Church ... as the R&R narrative holds.  Regardless of how "confused" they were, the Promises of Our Lord for the assistance of the Holy Spirit for the papacy (something +Lefebvre ackowledged) would absolutely have prevented a legitimate "confused" pope from wrecking the Church.

    But I urge people to look the link above.  There's a ton of evidence all pointing to the same conclusion.

    As for the Bennyvacantist equivalent, while the non-resignation theory is absurd, the St. Gallen mafia collusion has actually been admitted by one of the participants, and that's actually a legitimate reason for Bergoglio to have been disqualified, as JP2 explicitly stated that collusion over the election would render it illegitimate in his docuмent about the conclave that would occur after his death.  Where the Bennyvacantists miss the mark is in believing that the Crisis in the Church started with Bergoglio and in thinking that we don't have a bigger problem here that goes all the way back to Vatican II.  Bergoglio was simply the most brazen about it, but the heresies of Wojtyla and Ratzinger make his absolutely pale by comparison.

    And to top it all off, this happened shortly before the conclave:


    This White Dove / Pigeon landed on Cardinal Siri's head as he offered Mass.  He reportedly continued with Mass while ignoring it.  White Doves are universally acknowledged to be the symbol of the Holy Spirit, and this incident was taken to suggest that the Holy Spirit would choose him to be the next pope.  Perhaps a coincidence, but I don't think so.

    This is from the accompanying newspaper article:
    Quote
    “Pigeon perches on Cardinal’s Cap – Genoa, Italy – Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, Archbishop of Genoa, remained unperturbed when a pigeon perched on his cap as he celebrated Mass in the arena of the Orfei Circus here. The pigeon was one of a flock released in tribute to the Cardinal. The Mass, said on an altar set up in the center ring of the Big Top, was attended by circus entertainers and a crowd of Genoese.”


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #272 on: January 07, 2023, 08:51:15 AM »
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  • Another question that remains unanswered is: Which Divine Law?


    Stubborn,

    For whatever you take as its worth, here's the argument of John Daly, Michael Davies, An Evaluation, who basically says that it's a necessary conclusion from divine Scripture - Galatians 1:8-9, 2 John 9-10 - and St. Robert's opinion that it was the "unanimous teaching of the Fathers to the same effect," as well as on the basis of the view of Paul IV in cuм Ex and the Church's adoption and expression in the 1917 Code of ipso facto loss of office for heresy in canon law:

    Quote
    Finally, it should be noted that Suarez’s contention that there is no Divine law whereby heretics are automatically deprived of their offices is not correct. The words of St. Paul and St. John forbidding communication between the faithful and heretics (as quoted by Suarez himself) constitute just such a law, 48 as the unanimous teaching of the Fathers to the same effect, vouched for by St. Robert Bellarmine, proves beyond question. Consequently the automatic exclusion of even uncondemned heretics from all ecclesiastical offices pronounced by cuм Ex Apostolatus and in recent times by Canon 188§4 do indeed “bind the pope”, because although promulgated by his equal, they are interpretative of Divine law.

    48 Although the law is implicit rather than explicit in the Apostles’ words, it is nonetheless inescapable, as it would certainly not be compatible with these apostolic injunctions to recognize a heretic as having authority in the Catholic Church. Many other laws recognized to be Divine in origin – such as that prescribing the seal of confession – are deduced from passages of Scripture in which they are even more implicit, but nonetheless certain.


    (Page 162).


    In this regard, I think of Fr. Kramer's argument that the prior opinions of St. Thomas and Cajetan of the need for some sort of declaration before a heretical pope can be deposed and rejected as pope becoming indefensible subsequently with Vatican I's expression of the injudicability of the pope by any authority on earth and the expression of the ipso facto loss of office by heresy in the 1917 Code by the Church, the latter being an adoption of that view by the Church.







    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #273 on: January 07, 2023, 10:13:22 AM »
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  • And to top it all off, this happened shortly before the conclave:


    This White Dove / Pigeon landed on Cardinal Siri's head as he offered Mass.  He reportedly continued with Mass while ignoring it.  White Doves are universally acknowledged to be the symbol of the Holy Spirit, and this incident was taken to suggest that the Holy Spirit would choose him to be the next pope.  Perhaps a coincidence, but I don't think so.

    Ah, another problem, a dove or a white pigeon?

    https://www.godwhospeaks.uk/o-for-the-wings-of-a-dove/

    "Few symbols across many faiths are as enduring as the dove. In the history of art and iconography, the dove often represents an aspect of the divine and so its depiction has been adapted by many ancient cultures and belief systems. While it is a sacred bird of ancient Egypt, Greece and Phoenicia, in Greek mythology, the dove is the emblem of the goddess Athena. Doves are respected in Islam because they are believed to have assisted the final prophet of Islam Muhammad in distracting his enemies outside the cave of Thaw’r, in the great Hijra. Doves are associated with peace and pacifism in heraldry and secular society. These are just some of its attributes that provide us with a visual motif complex in meaning and rich in appropriation for Christianity.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #274 on: January 07, 2023, 10:26:17 AM »
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  • Ah, another problem, a dove or a white pigeon?

    https://www.godwhospeaks.uk/o-for-the-wings-of-a-dove/

    "Few symbols across many faiths are as enduring as the dove. In the history of art and iconography, the dove often represents an aspect of the divine and so its depiction has been adapted by many ancient cultures and belief systems. While it is a sacred bird of ancient Egypt, Greece and Phoenicia, in Greek mythology, the dove is the emblem of the goddess Athena. Doves are respected in Islam because they are believed to have assisted the final prophet of Islam Muhammad in distracting his enemies outside the cave of Thaw’r, in the great Hijra. Doves are associated with peace and pacifism in heraldry and secular society. These are just some of its attributes that provide us with a visual motif complex in meaning and rich in appropriation for Christianity.

    Hmmm?  We have Sacred Scripture stating that the Holy Spirit descended upon Our Lord in the form of a dove (=pigeon, same family of bird), and Catholic art has, as a result of this passage, always used the dove as a symbol of the Holy Spirit.  I'm not sure how this is any kind of "problem".  While this incident is not proof of anything, it's also not any kind of problem.  I just don't believe this was just a fluke.

    Meanwhile, Wojtyla was attacked by a dove that they released during his Anti-Papacy ...


    And when Bergoglio released doves for world peace, it was attacked (and presumably killed) by a crow --


    Ratzinger had tried the same stunt to release the peace doves before Bergoglio's were attacked, but they refused to fly out --


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #275 on: January 07, 2023, 10:34:35 AM »
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  • Uhm, no, the Siri Theory is not the least bit far-fetched.  There's a significant amount of evidence for it.  One of the most succinct and yet comprehensive that I've seen is here:
    https://tinyurl.com/2p9rfpc5

    This doesn't consist of merely fantasizing about the smoke signals coming from within the conclave, although those help corroborate the abundance of other evidence in favor of the Theory.

    There are a number of independent sources, and one of them, Scortesco, a counsin of the Vatican Noble Guard, who were responsible for guarding the conclaves, was burned alive in his bed shortly after he published his letter with the details.

    Paul Williams, former FBI, wrote a book where he mentioned in passing, in a footnote, that Siri had been elected and had taken the name Gregory XVII, citing classified docuмents.  Williams is not a Catholic and didn't consider this particularly important.  While the docuмent has never been found, presumably RE-classified after the book, it's unlikely that Williams just made this up.  He gives the exact name and date of the docuмent and mentions a detail about the papal name, Gregory XVII ... that a non-Catholic wouldn't even understand the significance of, i.e. that it means he had accepted the election, and for him to land on "Gregory" as a non-Catholic was also unlikely.  We can hardly doubt that both the US and USSR had agents in the conclave reporting back to them.

    And it's the perfect plan, if you think about it.  Let Siri be elected (his election was considered a foregone conclusion, as he was considered THE papabile for that election), then force him out uncanonically, so that their agent would not legitimately hold office, and therefore would not be protected by the Holy Spirit.  These enemies of the Church had more "faith" in the protection of the Holy Spirit over the papacy than R&R do.  They knew that if Roncalli had been legitimately elected, that God would cause him to drop dead before he and his successors could damage the Church as much as they wanted to.  I look at this as the "uncanonically-elected pope" reference in the prophecy of St. Francis of Assisi, not Bergoglio.  Bergoglio was just the last in a line of illegitimate usurper Antipopes, who were not merely otherwise-sincere people with confused minds who got elected due to the overall liberalization of the Church ... as the R&R narrative holds.  Regardless of how "confused" they were, the Promises of Our Lord for the assistance of the Holy Spirit for the papacy (something +Lefebvre ackowledged) would absolutely have prevented a legitimate "confused" pope from wrecking the Church.

    But I urge people to look the link above.  There's a ton of evidence all pointing to the same conclusion.

    As for the Bennyvacantist equivalent, while the non-resignation theory is absurd, the St. Gallen mafia collusion has actually been admitted by one of the participants, and that's actually a legitimate reason for Bergoglio to have been disqualified, as JP2 explicitly stated that collusion over the election would render it illegitimate in his docuмent about the conclave that would occur after his death.  Where the Bennyvacantists miss the mark is in believing that the Crisis in the Church started with Bergoglio and in thinking that we don't have a bigger problem here that goes all the way back to Vatican II.  Bergoglio was simply the most brazen about it, but the heresies of Wojtyla and Ratzinger make his absolutely pale by comparison.

    And to top it all off, this happened shortly before the conclave:


    This White Dove / Pigeon landed on Cardinal Siri's head as he offered Mass.  He reportedly continued with Mass while ignoring it.  White Doves are universally acknowledged to be the symbol of the Holy Spirit, and this incident was taken to suggest that the Holy Spirit would choose him to be the next pope.  Perhaps a coincidence, but I don't think so.

    This is from the accompanying

    Was that a Novus Ordo mass? 

    PS - no . . . Just saw the date.
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #276 on: January 07, 2023, 10:36:40 AM »
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  • During Wojtyla's funeral, there was a lot of wind, and the candles were extinguished by the wind, and there was an open Book of the Gospels (symbolizing the Book of Life) on his casket.  It was literally blown shut by the wind.

    During the solemn Medieval excommunication rite, a candle was extinguished and a Book of the Gospels was shut to signify the dying of grace and the exclusion of the excommunicated from the Book of Life.

    You can see the book being buffeted about in the wind.  Look at, 10:58-11:05 where it's still open but being blown around by the wind.  At 18:07-18:10 you can see the pages being violently blown around, then again at about 19:34-19:37.  By 24:37 - 24:47, you can see that it was shut by the wind, again recalling that the open book symbolizes the Book of Life.



    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #277 on: January 07, 2023, 10:40:06 AM »
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  • Was that a Novus Ordo mass?

    PS - no . . . Just saw the date.

    But we do know “pope” Siri had no issues with mass in the new rite.
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #278 on: January 07, 2023, 10:47:03 AM »
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  • But we do know “pope” Siri had no issues with mass in the new rite.

    Pope Gregory XVII had issues with it, but he went along with it.  That's irrelevant to the question of whether he had been validly elected pope ... which he almost certainly was.  He called Vatican II a disaster and in his later days lamented and grieved (cryptically, because he said he was bound by the secret, which was horrible) that he had failed to take certain actions and, according to his confessor, was extremely upset by his impending judgment, though he hoped in God's forgiveness.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #279 on: January 07, 2023, 10:50:29 AM »
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  • We will soon have a similar "Ratzinger Theory" from the Bennyvacantists.  Brother Bugnolo is already stating that the Church will have a conclave in the next 30 days.  Of course, this won't happen, but they will believe that there is a hidden pope....Benny's true successor, of course.

    Within a Month, the Catholic Church will have a new Roman Pontiff | From Rome

    😂 Another day another hair-brain theory.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #280 on: January 07, 2023, 11:04:24 AM »
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  • And when Bergoglio released doves for world peace, it was attacked (and presumably killed) by a crow --


    The dove of peace being absolutely mauled by the dirty black crow.  That was a classic. 


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #281 on: January 07, 2023, 11:16:41 AM »
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  • Wow, its no wonder I never got a seat. 24.24 shows what looks like Muslims in the front row.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #282 on: January 07, 2023, 11:59:54 AM »
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  • Stubborn, you don’t even realize it, but you have in essence become your own pope. YOU decide what is Catholic or not. What is divine law or not. Which Council decrees to adhere to and which ones to disregard. After all, according to you, Church Councils are not infallible. You decide if pope or a supposed pope’s teaching’s should be followed or not. You make the rules, not the Church and certainly not the pope.
    I showed you what you asked for and ^^ this ^^ is your reply? Thanks for another side tracking attempt at ad homineming me while COMPLETELY ignoring the questions - again. What is the sede's major malfunction anyway?

    I asked "Which divine law?" - Do you even know what a Divine Law is? If not, then be honest and say you have no idea what Divine Law even is. If so, then answer my question.

    I asked "what purpose sedeism serve and how it profits souls unto salvation." - Do you even know why you're a sede? If you know the answer, then answer the question, if you are clueless, then be honest and say you have no idea why you're a sede, do not know how sedeism profits anyone, and have not figured out what purpose sedeism serves.

    I fully expect you to ignore the questions as you take your bat and ball and leave, claiming something's wrong with me - as you've done whenever I've backed you against a wall in the past. Pitiful actually.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #283 on: January 07, 2023, 12:16:34 PM »
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  • I showed you what you asked for and ^^ this ^^ is your reply? Thanks for another side tracking attempt at ad homineming me while COMPLETELY ignoring the questions - again. What is the sede's major malfunction anyway?

    I asked "Which divine law?" - Do you even know what a Divine Law is? If not, then be honest and say you have no idea what Divine Law even is. If so, then answer my question.

    I asked "what purpose sedeism serve and how it profits souls unto salvation." - Do you even know why you're a sede? If you know the answer, then answer the question, if you are clueless, then be honest and say you have no idea why you're a sede, do not know how sedeism profits anyone, and have not figured out what purpose sedeism serves.

    I fully expect you to ignore the questions as you take your bat and ball and leave, claiming something's wrong with me - as you've done whenever I've backed you against a wall in the past. Pitiful actually.

    Stubborn, this isn’t fun and games. I will quote what the theologians say AGAIN:

    “Heretics and schismatics are barred from the Supreme Pontificate by the divine law itself… [T]hey must certainly be regarded as excluded from occupying the throne of the Apostolic See, which is the infallible teacher of the truth of the faith and the center of ecclesiastical unity.” (Maroto, Institutiones I.C. 2:784)

    “Appointment to the Office of the Primacy. 1. What is required by divine law for this appointment… Also required for validity is that the one elected be a member of the Church; hence, heretics and apostates (at least public ones) are excluded.” (Coronata, Institutiones I.C. 1:312)


    “All those who are not impeded by divine law or by an invalidating ecclesiastical law are validly eligible [to be elected pope]. Wherefore, a male who enjoys use of reason sufficient to accept election and exercise jurisdiction, and who is a true member of the Church can be validly elected, even though he be only a layman. Excluded as incapable of valid election, however, are all women, children who have not yet arrived at the age of discretion, those afflicted with habitual insanity, heretics and schismatics.” (Wernz-Vidal, Jus Can. 2:415)

    You of course will dismiss them because YOU are your own pope. YOU decide what is divine law because YOU are more qualified and are the ultimate authority. :facepalm:

    I’m a reasonable man, if you can find a single pre VII authority that supports your position, I will look at your evidence, evaluate it and possibly reconsider my position. Get to work…..
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Benedict XVI dead at 95
    « Reply #284 on: January 07, 2023, 12:17:13 PM »
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  • You've been arguing against sedevacantism for how long and you aren't aware of what +Bellarmine wrote about this?

    Divine Law that someone who is not a member of the Church cannot be its head (I urge you to look up +Bellarmne).  Other Divine Law includes that a woman cannot be elected, and that to fully exercise the office one has to be a bishop, etc.  Even if there were no Canon Law against a female being elect it, Divine Law would render the election of a woman null and void.
    That is NOT Divine Law. By definition, Divine Law is a Law given to us directly from the mouth of God, hence the name, "Divine Law" aka the Ten Commandments. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

    Where did God ever decree the Law stating someone who is not a member of the Church cannot be its head? Please do not keep this a secret.

    I realize just how inconvenient this question is for sedes, yet they keep repeating the same thing over and over, so why all the fuss? I simply am asking to stop keeping it a secret and publish the Divine Law so often referenced because I have yet to find it.

    Quote
    See, your problem is that you falsely follow the Wathenian error that the character of Baptism suffices for membership in the Church, that all the baptized are members of the Church.  This is an opinion that was held by exactly one guy, but Pius XII put the nail into the coffin when he taught clearly that heretics and schismatics cease to be members of the Church.
    Nope, that is not what Fr. Wathen says at all, so whomever that one guy was, it was not Fr. Wathen. And for the record, Pope Pius XII never taught that heretics and schismatics cease to be members of the Church - you need to get your facts straight instead of shooting from the hip.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse