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Author Topic: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis  (Read 5265 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

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Offline 2Vermont

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For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 01:23:55 PM »
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  • So it sounds like they were building a convent, then the prospective nuns backed out (because he denounced Bergoglio as a non-pope?), and so they've adapted it as some kind of "retreat" center for prospective vocations?  I'm not sure I understand completely what the intent and purpose is other than not to let a building go to waste.  But we'll have to see where it goes.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 03:47:35 PM »
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  • The providential work of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, beginning with the immediate postconciliar period, had the indisputable merit, on the one hand, of denouncing the estrangement from the immutable lex credendi, and on the other of understanding the threat to which the priesthood was exposed with the introduction of the reformed liturgy and with it the disturbing changes to the rite of conferring Holy Orders.

    and

    For this reason, I believe the time has come to give a new impetus to Exsurge Domine, the Association I founded a few months ago. I wished to reserve this particular occasion which sees us gathered today in the house of the President of Exsurge Domine to announce that the Monastic Village at the Hermitage of Palanzana in Viterbo, initially intended to help the Benedictine Sisters of Pienza, will become, God willing, a house of formation for clergy which will take the name Collegium Traditionis, since the Sisters have recently decided to dissociate themselves from the project that Exsurge Domine had offered them. The Collegium Traditionis will be the first and only traditional Italian reality destined for a seminary, equipping itself with teachers and spiritual guides of sure orthodoxy and solid spirituality, under my supervision.

    So, he plans on running a new Seminary in Italy and he mentions concerns about "disturbing changes to the rite of conferring Holy Orders".

    Does the latter include his own Episcopal Consecration?  Because, if not, he will be ordaining fake priests ala Hounder.  If it does, then has he been conditionally consecrated? If so, by whom?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #4 on: December 08, 2023, 04:03:43 PM »
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  • Does the latter include his own Episcopal Consecration?

    I'm fairly certain that it does.


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #6 on: December 08, 2023, 08:18:23 PM »
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  • The providential work of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, beginning with the immediate postconciliar period, had the indisputable merit, on the one hand, of denouncing the estrangement from the immutable lex credendi, and on the other of understanding the threat to which the priesthood was exposed with the introduction of the reformed liturgy and with it the disturbing changes to the rite of conferring Holy Orders.

    and

    For this reason, I believe the time has come to give a new impetus to Exsurge Domine, the Association I founded a few months ago. I wished to reserve this particular occasion which sees us gathered today in the house of the President of Exsurge Domine to announce that the Monastic Village at the Hermitage of Palanzana in Viterbo, initially intended to help the Benedictine Sisters of Pienza, will become, God willing, a house of formation for clergy which will take the name Collegium Traditionis, since the Sisters have recently decided to dissociate themselves from the project that Exsurge Domine had offered them. The Collegium Traditionis will be the first and only traditional Italian reality destined for a seminary, equipping itself with teachers and spiritual guides of sure orthodoxy and solid spirituality, under my supervision.

    So, he plans on running a new Seminary in Italy and he mentions concerns about "disturbing changes to the rite of conferring Holy Orders".

    Does the latter include his own Episcopal Consecration?  Because, if not, he will be ordaining fake priests ala Hounder.  If it does, then has he been conditionally consecrated? If so, by whom?
    Good post. It sounds promising. Take heed all those who have accused Archbishop Vigano of doing nothing.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2023, 05:55:52 AM »
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  • Good post. It sounds promising. Take heed all those who have accused Archbishop Vigano of doing nothing.
    But then why did Bishop Paul Morgan say this in reference to Vigano when responding to the objections to his recent Resistance consecration? What is "the impossible"? I originally took it to mean that Vigano had no intention of getting a conditional consecration:

    It is true that Msgr. Vigano, very
    courageous, renounced the error of the Conciliar Church etc.; Msgr
    Vigano has impressed us a great deal, a good bishop, but he is 83
    years old...and we mustn't wait for the impossible.

    By the way, is there a Resistance seminary?  If so, where?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2023, 08:47:01 AM »
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  • The Collegium Traditionis will be the first and only traditional Italian reality destined for a seminary, equipping itself with teachers and spiritual guides of sure orthodoxy and solid spirituality, under my supervision.

    .

    :jester::facepalm:

    Oh well, so much for the idea that he is sedeprivationist. When Vigano said about a month ago that his words should not be taken to mean that he agrees with the opinions of sedevacantists, I pointed out that Vigano is not sedevacantist. The sedeprivationists jumped all over me for saying Vigano is not sedevacantist, by responding that "obviously" he is sedeprivationist, and somehow a sedeprivationist would go around telling everyone he is not sedevacantist without clarifying that he is sedeprivationist.

    Now Vigano is saying his is the only true, orthodox seminary in Italy, thus excluding the seminary of Mater Boni Consilii, the oldest and most important sedeprivationist seminary in the world, which is also in Italy. :laugh1:

    Tell me again about how sedeprivationist Vigano is.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2023, 08:50:10 AM »
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  • .

    :jester::facepalm:

    Oh well, so much for the idea that he is sedeprivationist. When Vigano said about a month ago that his words should not be taken to mean that he agrees with the opinions of sedevacantists, I pointed out that Vigano is not sedevacantist. The sedeprivationists jumped all over me for saying Vigano is not sedevacantist, by responding that "obviously" he is sedeprivationist, and somehow a sedeprivationist would go around telling everyone he is not sedevacantist without clarifying that he is sedeprivationist.

    Now Vigano is saying his is the only true, orthodox seminary in Italy, thus excluding the seminary of Mater Boni Consilii, the oldest and most important sedeprivationist seminary in the world, which is also in Italy. :laugh1:

    Tell me again about how sedeprivationist Vigano is.
    He also has not publicly admitted that he is not a true bishop (yet?).

    Who we are – Sodalitium (sodalitiumpianum.com)

    I was not aware of this.  Thank you.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2023, 08:57:00 AM »
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  • .

    :jester::facepalm:

    Oh well, so much for the idea that he is sedeprivationist. When Vigano said about a month ago that his words should not be taken to mean that he agrees with the opinions of sedevacantists, I pointed out that Vigano is not sedevacantist. The sedeprivationists jumped all over me for saying Vigano is not sedevacantist, by responding that "obviously" he is sedeprivationist, and somehow a sedeprivationist would go around telling everyone he is not sedevacantist without clarifying that he is sedeprivationist.

    Now Vigano is saying his is the only true, orthodox seminary in Italy, thus excluding the seminary of Mater Boni Consilii, the oldest and most important sedeprivationist seminary in the world, which is also in Italy. :laugh1:

    Tell me again about how sedeprivationist Vigano is.

    (Yet another) idiotic post about +Vigano.  He distanced himself from the "sedevacantists", as I pointed out, because for him the term implies holding all the V2 papal claimants to be non-popes, but he hasn't gotten to that point, limiting his scope to Bergoglio.  He hasn't decided (yet) that Roncalli - Ratzinger were non-popes.  This is the same reason why the Bennyvacantists were denying they were sedevacantists after Ratzinger died.  It has nothing to do with sedeprivationism.  I don't think he's a sedeprivationist per se even in the case of Bergoglio.  As he articulated the position, he felt that Jorge never accepted the election result, which means he wouldn't have even been a material pope.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2023, 10:54:50 AM »
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  • Needless to say, this ambitious project responds to an obvious pastoral need of the faithful - especially in Italy - and to my duty, as Successor of the Apostles, to ensure a doctrinally and morally safe harbor for new and holy Vocations:

    This is a curious statement.  Based on many forum discussions throughout the years, I thought that a Successor of the Apostles must have ordinary jurisdiction. Vigano doesn't have ordinary jurisdiction (even if he were a true bishop). 

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #12 on: December 09, 2023, 10:58:25 AM »
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  • Needless to say, this ambitious project responds to an obvious pastoral need of the faithful - especially in Italy - and to my duty, as Successor of the Apostles, to ensure a doctrinally and morally safe harbor for new and holy Vocations:

    This is a curious statement.  Based on many forum discussions throughout the years, I thought that a Successor of the Apostles must have ordinary jurisdiction. Vigano doesn't have ordinary jurisdiction (even if he were a true bishop).

    Bishops are successors of the apostles in one sense just for being bishops.  You're confusing this expression for the discussions here about what constitutes true "Apostolic Succession" in the strict sense.

    Offline Mr G

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Establishes the Collegium Traditionis
    « Reply #14 on: December 09, 2023, 11:22:37 AM »
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  • Here: SAJM – Séminaire de Morannes – SAJM – Société des apôtres de Jésus et de Marie – Séminaire de Morannes (apotresdejesusetdemarie.fr)

    Father Hewko is setting one up also.  Then there's Father Pfeiffer's.  :laugh1:

    Father Chazal has one too, and Bishop Zendejas reportedly has something along the lines of a seminary.