Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: wallflower

Today's sports-crazy world aside, (I agree it's a bit much), women need to exercise, even weights.

No, women don't need to lift weights. They don't need big muscles. That is a rather feministic comment. There's nothing wrong with jogging or doing simple exercises, but lifting weights?

Yes, lifting weights. Lifting weights does not have the same effect on women as it does men. Normally a woman lifting weights will have "tone", not "big muscles". A woman's muscles don't normally bulge the way a man's do, but they still need exercising to be fit. You seem to think strength training for women is the same as strength training for men but it isn't. Unless one goes out of their way to try and achieve a man's big muscle look, strength training for women is tailored for women, who lack the levels of testosterone necessary for "big muscles". There's plenty of middle ground between flub and the champion weight lifter look, but muscles are muscles and women need them just as much as men do, even if they aren't as big or obvious as a man's.

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You may not be sexist but you may misunderstand what it means to be feminine if it's leading you to think women don't need healthy competition and exercise as well (you too SS). That's not a gender thing, that is a human being thing, part of what makes us healthy and happy.

I never said women don't need exercise. But they don't need to play sports or lift weights (and by sports I'm refering to masculine ones like basketball and baseball, if a girl wants to skate or something like that then there's no real harm in it, as long as she doesn't turn it into a career). I know lots of women who just walk or jog for their exercise, nothing else. They're in healty shape.

Sorry. You said they don't need to work out. Work out and exercise are rather close in meaning, so that's what it sounded like to me.

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It helps her have more energy for her daily duties. Most of us would be better wives and mothers in many ways for exercising. It doesn't take away from the traditional role at all.

Exercising is good for you health, but it does not in any way make you a better wife or mother. Women make good wives and mothers by good morals.

No where did I exclude good morals or place good health above good morals. But, even if placed below good morals in importance, good health is still very helpful in many ways. Same as with a man. If a man cannot provide because he is ill through his own fault, wouldn't he be culpable for not being able to provide? A woman is under the same obligation to care for her health so that she can better attend to her duties. In other words, besides the practical aid that good health provides, it falls under good morals to also care for our bodies.

Ask 50 women why they work out and I'll bet good money that less than 10 of them say that they work out because of their health. The usual answers are "I want to feel good about myself" "I want to look younger" "I want to fit into my old jeans" etc. All of these reasons are self-centered in nature. This is proven by the clothes most women wear when they're working out.

Am I judging them? Absolutely not. But I think it's spiritually unhealthy to work out for any reason other than your health. Playing sports puts you in danger of getting injured. So if a woman wants to take care of her health so that she can better attend to her duties, as you suggest, playing sports would be a no-no.

Oremus I agree with you that there's plenty of vanity to go around. Among both men and women. Men aren't exempt from their brand of gym variety vanity. However, wanting to look and feel one's best and fit properly into one's clothes is not automatically vanity. We do have a basic right, with the dignity of being human, body and soul, temples of the Holy Ghost, to want to look and feel our best. There's nothing wrong with that until it is given higher priority than it deserves. It can cross the line into vanity, quickly and easily, but so can all things. Our ability to abuse our goods, temporal and spiritual, doesn't change the fact that those goods are good. If a person exercises for a less than perfect reason, the exercise itself is still good for them. It's their own perceptions and intentions that need correcting, not necessarily the exercise.

I know where you are going with sports but by that reasoning a man should not play sports either. He has just as much duty towards his family, if not more as head and leader. And "playing sports" covers such a wide variety of activities... I don't think women should play football, for example, and I do think many sports are very unfeminine, but neither would I say they can't play any sports. What about tennis? Or skiing? Or swimming? There are many sports whose benefits easily outweigh their risks.  

I think the biggest problem with the modern view on exercise is that it is in mixed company and public. Honestly, to me, unless you engage in a social sport, like Badminton or something, exercise is best kept as a more private activity.

Quote from: wallflower

Today's sports-crazy world aside, (I agree it's a bit much), women need to exercise, even weights.

No, women don't need to lift weights. They don't need big muscles. That is a rather feministic comment. There's nothing wrong with jogging or doing simple exercises, but lifting weights?

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You may not be sexist but you may misunderstand what it means to be feminine if it's leading you to think women don't need healthy competition and exercise as well (you too SS). That's not a gender thing, that is a human being thing, part of what makes us healthy and happy.

I never said women don't need exercise. But they don't need to play sports or lift weights (and by sports I'm refering to masculine ones like basketball and baseball, if a girl wants to skate or something like that then there's no real harm in it, as long as she doesn't turn it into a career). I know lots of women who just walk or jog for their exercise, nothing else. They're in healty shape.

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It helps her have more energy for her daily duties. Most of us would be better wives and mothers in many ways for exercising. It doesn't take away from the traditional role at all.

Exercising is good for you health, but it does not in any way make you a better wife or mother. Women make good wives and mothers by good morals.

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 Yes, women need more than cardio. Women lift weights to time and strengthen nor to bulk up. Men lift heavy weights with fewer reps, women lift light weights with many reps. The two techniques have very different results. Most women lift 3,5 and 8 lb weights, which will never give a woman  a masculine physique.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is a lot of middle ground between girls playing football and never exerting themselves more than walking around the block. Pregnancy, birth and mothering takes a lot out of a woman's body, the fitter she is, the better for her and her family.  The greatest morals in the world don't get a family fed, laundry done, a house clean or the myriad of other things that go by the wayside when a mother is too sick, weak or in pain to care for her family.

Yes, women need more than cardio. Women lift weights to time and strengthen nor to bulk up. Men lift heavy weights with fewer reps, women lift light weights with many reps. The two techniques have very different results. Most women lift 3,5 and 8 lb weights, which will never give a woman  a masculine physique.

Lifting weights has never been proven to help women with pregnancy. And they don't need to "bulk up". They're women!  

I see this is another one of those "no-win" situations for me. So forget it, I'll withdraw from the argument. But I will say this: there's nothing uninformed about me being against women participating in certain activities.

I see this is another one of those "no-win" situations for me. So forget it, I'll withdraw from the argument. But I will say this: there's nothing uninformed about me being against women participating in certain activities.

That's fine. I'm against women participating in certain activities as well. I just know there is a lot more middle ground than you seem to be allowing for.

Something to remember is that in the past most women (and men) got plenty of exercise naturally through their daily work. These days that is much rarer so deliberate planning for exercise is actually necessary.

Something to remember about evangelization is that people respond to beauty. Whether it is the beauty of your church, the music, the liturgy, your family and yes, your appearance, all are part of evangelizing. People aren't going to be attracted to a traditional Catholic life if you and your kids are unkempt and dumpy. Keeping yourself in good shape, as much as some would like to deny it, is actually good for evangelization. I'm not suggesting that you should be sɛҳuąƖly provocative but there is a big difference between being "attractive" and being "sɛҳuąƖized".

Let the raging begin.  :heretic: