Author Topic: Why do Baby Boomer Catholics only have 3 or 4 kids? (Read 4147 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2011, 02:08:36 PM »

Quote from: CathMomof7

You mean you know Baby Boomers who have that many children? Wow.

I know several trad Catholic Baby Boomers who had 4 kids. That seems to be common, or even the maximum.

momofmany · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2011, 03:51:05 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I mean, I'm certainly on to something here.

Here are my wife and myself, having children 1 1/2 years apart, and we'd have to go back TWO generations to be able to get any advice, someone who can relate to us, etc.

Unfortunately, many from that generation are either deceased or in a nursing home. The people we can see more easily (parents, for example) lived a whole different lifestyle from us -- and I'm not talking about computers and technology either.

And even then Matthew, they wouldn't be able to give you much advice. Families used to stay in one place. Multiple generations lived in one town,muliple branches of the same family lived near each other. Women had sisters, mothers, aunts and cousins to rely on, almost no one homeschooled except for the ultra-rural. After 5 their children were sent away to school. The Catholic mom of 1930 never had more than a couple small children with her all day and she had a large support network. She could walk to the church on the corner for confession and some time in Adoration whenever she had a free few minutes.
A woman raising her Catholic children back then wouldn't know how to advise a woman today whose life is so completely different.

Kailyn · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2011, 05:58:52 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: ora pro me
Well, Matthew, your initial post didn't even mention the possibility of people losing babies early or not being able to conceive.

His initial post mentioned the change that has occurred since the baby boomer generation. If the rate of miscarriages and fertility problems has increased overall it is a result of changes in behavior. He's not obliged to mention that some people have such problems in noticing a trend.

I'm sorry, but your remarks are a completely unfair criticism of his observation - an attempted "guilt-trip" that is a common tactic for shutting people down when they make an observation.

While I believe the trend Matthew pointed out is legitimate, those of us who have seen or shared the pain of couples desperately trying to conceive (while being ostracized by other trads) are quick to suppress a perceived judgmental attitude. I'm sure no "guilt-trip" was intended.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2011, 06:46:25 PM »

CathMomof7 said:

Quote

I have scoured census records for decades and normal family size for most families was 6 to 8. There were some families with 1 or 2 children, others with 10 or 15. But those were exceptions.

You mean Catholics, I assume.

When I was obsessed with the idea that NFP was a heresy or near-heresy, I read lots about this subject. The birth rate began declining dramatically in France at the time of the Revolution or maybe before, the average family had something like 3 kids even then.

There's obviously something with Catholics though, or nominal Catholics. The birth rates in Catholic countries are lower than anywhere else, generally speaking. NFP is definitely a huge part of this, as well as artificial birth-control. Matthew is speaking of "trad" Vatican II Catholics though, who presumably would only use NFP in grave circuмstances. Maybe they have a very loose interpretation of grave circuмstances, or perhaps he just knows lots of infertile Vatican II trads.

The site will be glad to hear that the birth rate in -- guess where? -- France has gone shooting up recently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011600720_pf.html

The grand total is 2 children per woman, which believe it or not, puts France at or near the top of all countries in the EU when it comes to the birthrate!

The army of the Monarch is growing ( like Tele, I have my obsessions ). Yesterday I read a French newspaper article about the quasi-Catholic new Constitution in Hungary, and the comment section was full of people calling for a return to Catholicism in France and saying that they've had enough of multiculturalism and political correctness... I love to monitor France, you can see the people slowly waking up. One day they will explode, mark my words.

ColdFusion · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2011, 07:41:35 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

The site will be glad to hear that the birth rate in -- guess where? -- France has gone shooting up recently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011600720_pf.html

The grand total is 2 children per woman, which believe it or not, puts France at or near the top of all countries in the EU when it comes to the birthrate!

Unfortunately that rise in the birthrate can be attributed almost entirely to the French having the largest Muslim population in Europe.

Olive · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:29:18 PM »

I can think of two friends, traditional Catholics - one has only one child and the other has four children. Neither one was blessed with more. They do not practice birth control or NFP. God chose that number for them. Both of them were very upset for a long time that no more children came along. But now, both of them seem to have come to terms with it (and are beyond child-bearing age).

Olive · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:34:40 PM »

Another thing may be diet. Soy is in so much food today, and it can wreak havoc on a woman's hormones. There are more additive type of things but that one comes to mind. Population control via the food chain...

ora pro me · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2011, 10:37:30 PM »

Ok, so we're talking about Baby Boomers, the generation born between 1946 and 1964 and we're talking about both NO families and Traditional Catholic families, right? Well, of the Catholic families that I know in that generation, there are lots and lots of very big families, even more families that I would call fairly large, and then some families of the 3 to 5 kid range, so I'd say the families that I know are just all across the spectrum in terms of sizes.

I don't know many NO Catholics since I'm in a traditional Catholic parish. Our parish has lots of very big vans in the church parking lot. Some of those parents are baby boomers, but doing the math on the ages of baby boomers, there are more that are now either empty nesters and then the younger boomers are out of the pregnancy years. The youngest boomer would be 47 this year, and it's pretty rare for a woman of that age to have a baby, although I do know a handful over the years who did.

The older boomers that I know are now grandparents and those with big families that come to mind have lots and lots of grandkids. I remember talking to one of the grandpas and he didn't even know how many grandkids he had. He said he'd have to ask the wife. He said he also only knew the names of the first grandkids. The rest he calls by generic names like "kiddo" or "sweetie", or else he'll ask the mom or grandma. When they want to all get together they all go to a very big park or they rent a grange hall for reunions. Weddings are huge affairs.

Olive, are you talking about the GMO foods? I have heard or read that some of them can harm fertility. But GMO foods are a recent thing, so if they do hurt feritility it'll be the current generation of parents who are hurt and I am still seeing lots and lots of babies at church.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:36:09 PM »

It is a planned parenthood myth that every act would end in a pregnancy if there are no birth control. Not everybody can reach a double-digit number of children whether or not they use contraceptives.
In an other forum there was a lady who said that she had just two kids and she was using no birth control natural or unnatural.
Some women get fertile only once in seven years. It is rare but happens.

s2srea · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:38:22 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

It is a planned parenthood myth that every act would end in a pregnancy if there are no birth control. Not everybody can reach a double-digit number of children whether or not they use contraceptives.
In an other forum there was a lady who said that she had just two kids and she was using no birth control natural or unnatural.
Some women get fertile only once in seven years. It is rare but happens.

While this may be true- it seems that the marital act exercised in my marriage would bring about a child immediately everytime it seems... and in the last case twins!

I thank God for them though and hope and pray to lead them all to heaven

Matthew · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:02:41 AM »

Quote from: ora pro me

Our parish has lots of very big vans in the church parking lot. Some of those parents are baby boomers, but doing the math on the ages of baby boomers, there are more that are now either empty nesters and then the younger boomers are out of the pregnancy years. The youngest boomer would be 47 this year

I think pretty much ALL Baby Boomers are well out of the childbearing years. My parents were right in the middle of the baby boom years you listed, and I'm in my mid-30's!

If you're seeing large vans in your church parking lot, they belong to thirty-somethings whose PARENTS were baby boomers.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about how we need to update our thinking on "what a 40 year old is", today in 2011. For example, some of us assume that a 40 year old remembers Richard Nixon, Vietnam, Elvis, etc. but actually a 40 year old would have had computers at his middle school (1982). He would have been dating in the LATE 80's or early 90's.

momofmany · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2011, 10:21:13 AM »

In my personal circle of friends that do not use ABC I have found family size on a bell curve. I have friends with 14-15 kids and I have friends with 0-2. Most families fall in the middle usually with an average of 6 I'd say.

I have a LOT of friends that have had 4+ miscarriages and almost all of them have had at least one. I am in the distinct minority that I have never had a loss. 9 pregnancies, 9 children. That is statistically pretty rare.
There is so much that must be 'just right' for a woman to get pregnant and carry and birth a healthy baby. Every baby is a real miracle.

The mother of a two well known SSPX priests had 15 second trimester losses. 15. She is an amazing woman and I call my self fortunate to know her.

P.S. My husband and my mother are both technically baby boomers although at the extreme ends of the range of years.

ora pro me · « **Reply #27 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:15:04 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: ora pro me

Our parish has lots of very big vans in the church parking lot. Some of those parents are baby boomers, but doing the math on the ages of baby boomers, there are more that are now either empty nesters and then the younger boomers are out of the pregnancy years. The youngest boomer would be 47 this year

I think pretty much ALL Baby Boomers are well out of the childbearing years. My parents were right in the middle of the baby boom years you listed, and I'm in my mid-30's!

If you're seeing large vans in your church parking lot, they belong to thirty-somethings whose PARENTS were baby boomers.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about how we need to update our thinking on "what a 40 year old is", today in 2011. For example, some of us assume that a 40 year old remembers Richard Nixon, Vietnam, Elvis, etc. but actually a 40 year old would have had computers at his middle school (1982). He would have been dating in the LATE 80's or early 90's.

Some of the youngest baby boomers at my church that come to mind (very late 40s or early 50s) still have big vans because even though their oldest kids can be starting families of their own, or at least college age, they still have plenty of school age kids. One couple with a big van comes to mind who still have 2 at home and at least 7 in school. They had their last baby 2 years ago when the mom was 45 or 46. We know a handful of traditional Catholic moms over the years who had babies in their late 40s, even 2 who had babies at age 50 and 1 at age 49. When the subject comes up, someone invariably wonders if they ate what we used to call a "health food diet". Back in the 70s those kinds of folks were considered a bit odd, but now I know more people who eat "health food" or at least keep sugar and junk food :ready-to-eat:out of the house, and take various nutritional supplements. But then maybe it's just normal for healthy moms to have babies into their mid 40s and the ones who don't are just not as healthy? :confused1:

Some of the baby boomers at our church who have big vans are beginning to downsize back to the minivans because their older kids have their own cars, and with the price of gas those big vans are a real drain on the budget. Even the older minivans now don't get good gas mileage, but it's not always an economical move to buy another car just to get better gas mileage. You have to do the math. Then, too, those young baby boomers might need those big vans if they have to babysit the grandkids and fit the car seats back into their vans.

The baby boomers are often in the "sandwich generation" but that's a topic in itself. :thinking:

Olive · « **Reply #28 on:** April 21, 2011, 04:45:43 PM »

I don't necessarily mean GMO foods. However, sugar started to creep more and more into diets, even with the BB. It started with them because the mothers were enticed to work out of the home while the food companies came up with convenience foods to encourage and offset the mother being away. Now, we have tons of convenience foods, loaded with all kinds of not-so-healthy things.

Sugar, though, can definitely cause problems with fertility. For anyone who has suffered from infertility, one of the first things that the RE will tell you is to cut sugar out of your diet as much as possible.

Also, for women, especially those from the BB generation, who had progesterone problems to maintain pregnancies, certain hormones were given to them. We now know that some of those hormone-cocktails, even though they helped maintain the pregnancy, caused problems for them later in life. In fact, if you are pregnant nowadays, one of the questions the doctor asks is whether your mother was on these prescriptions because they may cause you problems with your fertility and pregnancy.

Thus, I think the answer to BB Catholics having/not having oodles of children is not necessarily cut-and-dry.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #29 on:** April 23, 2011, 02:01:49 AM »

I think this is interesting and thought I'd share this with regard to "what is normal?" for family size. This is from the opening pages of a book on the geneology of my family. The patriarch here was born in 1815. He actually had 11 children, but the two who died before marrying are not included on the chart. It's just one extended family, of course, but the smallest group was 7 children. (Incidentally, Bernhard is the guy who brought my family to Texas -- smart man!

)