Author Topic: unemployed men are a waste of space (Read 13071 times)

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #45 on:** December 10, 2013, 11:17:45 PM »

Quote from: McFiggly

- We were raised by Boomers / hippies who believe that sentimental love can solve all problems. You may have been raised by parents that were set on you having successful careers, but I never had that pressure on me. Your parents may have deemed you rotten failures for being unemployed, our parents are "sympathetic". It could be argued that they are far too light on us, but I could argue that your parents were too strict on you and turned you into career snobs.

Good God, stop it. I just responded to an equally "despondent" Traditional Guy 20 who blamed "baby boomers" for his plight. Apparently there are three or four of you on here with the exact same plights, and unemployed, and who have VERY old parents. Pray tell: are you all related?

:stare:

Baby Boomers SHOULD BE your grandparents, since they "boomed" and grew up in the 1940s-1960s by definition, so that would put them at retirement age, and their children should be FAR OLDER than your supposed 20 years age. (Not only you, obviously: several 20 year olds who have slithered in recently). A 20 year old's parents should have grown up in Generation X or Y, and you should have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT set of complaints. Google it; I'm not doing your identity research for you.

Anyway: I'm happy to report that I know several young trad men (14-24) who are gainfully employed. In fact, them all. Oh, they're not making a killing, and in fact aren't doing what they had hoped, or studied, or trained to be doing. (One is, but he's working very hard and is under contract to complete a Master's degree.) But they are ALL employed in SOME fashion.

Again, "Baby Boomers" are about to retire; they don't have 20 year old children.

McFiggly · « **Reply #46 on:** December 11, 2013, 07:29:15 AM »

Quote from: Thorn

McFiggly, you need to take the words 'career', 'promotions', and 'corporate ladder-climbing' out of your vocabulary right now & replace them with 'WORK'. Then get to work looking for WORK, even if it's lowly & menial. Someone has to bus tables. Someone has to clean toilets. Someone has to feed & milk cows. Someone has to scrub the floors in schools, hospitals, restaurants, etc. Someone has to wash dishes. Someone has to pick strawberries. Why can't that be you?
Stop whining about your sloth. It's unbecoming of a man. That's for children.

"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, but when I became a man I spoke as a man."

You're absolutely right Thorn. I'm going to stay off the forum, at least for a while, until I have seen to higher priorities. I feel like a hypocrite being on here and criticising others in the first place.

StCeciliasGirl, pardon my ignorance. I will refrain from speaking like that in the future.

I do not think my statements need to be completely retracted, however. I do think that there is something at least slightly rotten and unchristian in the attitude of ggreg and others. But I am fully aware how childish and whiny my attitude is and how incomparably more blameworthy it is compared to ggreg's, which is why I have insisted on my feeling like a hypocrite. I ought to cringe at my insisting on my sloth, I know, it's almost like I'm bragging about my sin, which is disgraceful.

Well, I intend to return here in the future because I enjoy the conversation and there are important discussions to be had that this forum is suited to more than any other place on the internet. Please don't think that I'm running away because I've been embarrassed. No, this has been a "guilty pleasure" from the start, I knew before joining the forum a few days ago that I ought to be attending to more important things. I don't mind being put in my place, especially over the internet which saves me from having to hide my shame before others.

Goodbye for now, and I hope that you all enjoy Christmas, and I hope that by the time I return that I'll have more to offer to the forum.

Cheers,
:cheers:
- Jack

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #47 on:** December 11, 2013, 08:30:20 AM »

Quote from: McFiggly

StCeciliasGirl, pardon my ignorance. I will refrain from speaking like that in the future.

I do not think my statements need to be completely retracted, however. I do think that there is something at least slightly rotten and unchristian in the attitude of ggreg and others.

Jack: you're ignorant of how old your parents are? Within 10 years would suffice.

soulguard · « **Reply #48 on:** December 11, 2013, 08:43:56 AM »

Mc Figglys posts are a valuable contribution to this forum, and he should not need to stay away. Whatever he intends to do can be done in addition to posting on here.

Obviously from what he and I have said, it is clear that some people elevate their state in secular life to the same level as their faith. That is Wrong. I know it wreaks of the elitism of the professed religious class who think they are better than Catholics who are not like them. This elitism is everywhere.

Memento · « **Reply #49 on:** December 11, 2013, 11:12:17 AM »

Quote

StCeciliasGirl said:
Baby Boomers SHOULD BE your grandparents, since they "boomed" and grew up in the 1940s-1960s by definition, so that would put them at retirement age, and their children should be FAR OLDER than your supposed 20 years age. (Not only you, obviously: several 20 year olds who have slithered in recently). A 20 year old's parents should have grown up in Generation X or Y, and you should have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT set of complaints. Google it; I'm not doing your identity research for you.

To be fair to Catholic women still giving birth into their forties, they will be in their 60s when that child turns 20.

McFiggly could certainly be the youngest child born to a mother who had her eldest at 18 and her youngest while in her early to mid forties. A mother who started her family at an early age could still have her youngest while her grandchildren are coming into the world. A mother who conceived even one child, now age 21, in 1992 could have been 42 years of age and been born in 1950. That puts her square into the baby boomer generation.

Debating whether or not this is a likely scenario for baby boomer/ hippie type parents is another story. You never know though, although selfish and malformed in many ways, they could have a lasting marriage and have been open to life. We have the privilege of having McFiggly , a Catholic, here on earth through a certain grace of God, no matter what his parent's age is.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #50 on:** December 11, 2013, 12:40:07 PM »

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #51 on:** December 11, 2013, 12:43:00 PM »

Quote from: Memento

Quote
StCeciliasGirl said:
Baby Boomers SHOULD BE your grandparents, since they "boomed" and grew up in the 1940s-1960s by definition, so that would put them at retirement age, and their children should be FAR OLDER than your supposed 20 years age. (Not only you, obviously: several 20 year olds who have slithered in recently). A 20 year old's parents should have grown up in Generation X or Y, and you should have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT set of complaints. Google it; I'm not doing your identity research for you.

To be fair to Catholic women still giving birth into their forties, they will be in their 60s when that child turns 20.

McFiggly could certainly be the youngest child born to a mother who had her eldest at 18 and her youngest while in her early to mid forties. A mother who started her family at an early age could still have her youngest while her grandchildren are coming into the world. A mother who conceived even one child, now age 21, in 1992 could have been 42 years of age and been born in 1950. That puts her square into the baby boomer generation.

Debating whether or not this is a likely scenario for baby boomer/ hippie type parents is another story. You never know though, although selfish and malformed in many ways, they could have a lasting marriage and have been open to life. We have the privilege of having McFiggly , a Catholic, here on earth through a certain grace of God, no matter what his parent's age is.

Just trying to make some sense of it. He accused his parents of coddling, called them Baby Boomers, you think of a woman now in her 60s. And like I said, I had just replied to a man who used the same terminology about his grandparents, condemning a whole generation as the reason for his trials, but I'm wondering, where's the respect for older people in all this? Especially here, where they're the parents? (Unless there's rape or something odious that happened).

McFiggly linked his upbringing to his and another poster's lots in life.

I'll pull out something Poche said on the other thread to the (third!) 20 year old gentleman: the 4th Commandment, the honor your father and mother Commandment, is the first one that comes with promises attached to it. Something like, "honor thy father and mother that it may be well with you and you can live long on the earth?"

These threads are so similar, and I'm not saying it's EASY to honor parents; I actually have old parents (who had me around late 30s/early 40s). But Poche was right: that commandment's one of the basics. Did we STOP teaching that somewhere down the line? Why are there so many young men ready to blame parents of ANY generation? (Many, it would seem, from the baby boomer generation). If they're in their 60s or 70s, maybe they should get an extra helping of respect. "That it may be well with you and you can live long on the earth."

Or not. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #52 on:** December 11, 2013, 01:06:08 PM »

The baby boom lasted from 1946-1964, so someone born in the last year to qualify as a babyboomer would be 48, and a few of those have had menopause-babies. My own mom was 45 when I was born.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #53 on:** December 11, 2013, 01:20:34 PM »

Just as important as finding work, and really, much more important, a young Catholic Man should find a Traditional Catholic wife. A job is a job is a job and unless you are particularly skilled, you will probably have a series of ordinary jobs throughout your life. However, a Traditional Catholic wife is a real gem and this is the most important thing a man should focus on.

Men do need to develop themselves and they must prepare themselves to be responsible for a wife and family.

Memento · « **Reply #54 on:** December 11, 2013, 03:52:37 PM »

Quote from: ascent

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

Good point, Ascent. It is also no measure of health to point out a few good traits of an unbalanced generation but it does show God's mercy. If we are fortunate enough to have a little bit of goodness left in us, He will use it to catch us and bring us back to Him. He is the Great Fisherman, is He not?

I was being appreciative of the fact that McFiggly is Catholic and he is in a better position than many of the people of this world who do not have means to receive grace to correct their faults. He can especially learn from his elders on this forum. He would also do well to learn from St. Francis of Assisi, as I learned from him. St. Francis' father was a merchant who wanted him to have "the good things in life" . St. Francis realized his own errors, owned up to them, got right with God and chose the best life. He did not blame his parents for his own worldliness.

And to StCecilia'sGirl- No matter how old McFiggly's parents are, you are right, they deserve respect because of the 4th Commandment. You have given a correction to this young man, which is an act of charity, and he, God willing, will change his behavior.

I was astonished when reading a prayer written by St. Alphonsus de Ligouri where he asked God forgiveness for the sins of his youth. At first I thought that it was a prayer he wrote for the likes of me but then I thought, maybe he was a sinner too. I am not saying St. Alphonsus was a great sinner in his youth, but we do know that the greatest sinners have at times become the greatest saints.

Graham · « **Reply #55 on:** December 11, 2013, 04:12:52 PM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

Quote from: Memento
Quote
StCeciliasGirl said:
Baby Boomers SHOULD BE your grandparents, since they "boomed" and grew up in the 1940s-1960s by definition, so that would put them at retirement age, and their children should be FAR OLDER than your supposed 20 years age. (Not only you, obviously: several 20 year olds who have slithered in recently). A 20 year old's parents should have grown up in Generation X or Y, and you should have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT set of complaints. Google it; I'm not doing your identity research for you.

To be fair to Catholic women still giving birth into their forties, they will be in their 60s when that child turns 20.

McFiggly could certainly be the youngest child born to a mother who had her eldest at 18 and her youngest while in her early to mid forties. A mother who started her family at an early age could still have her youngest while her grandchildren are coming into the world. A mother who conceived even one child, now age 21, in 1992 could have been 42 years of age and been born in 1950. That puts her square into the baby boomer generation.

Debating whether or not this is a likely scenario for baby boomer/ hippie type parents is another story. You never know though, although selfish and malformed in many ways, they could have a lasting marriage and have been open to life. We have the privilege of having McFiggly , a Catholic, here on earth through a certain grace of God, no matter what his parent's age is.

Just trying to make some sense of it. He accused his parents of coddling, called them Baby Boomers, you think of a woman now in her 60s. And like I said, I had just replied to a man who used the same terminology about his grandparents, condemning a whole generation as the reason for his trials, but I'm wondering, where's the respect for older people in all this? Especially here, where they're the parents? (Unless there's rape or something odious that happened).

McFiggly linked his upbringing to his and another poster's lots in life.

I'll pull out something Poche said on the other thread to the (third!) 20 year old gentleman: the 4th Commandment, the honor your father and mother Commandment, is the first one that comes with promises attached to it. Something like, "honor thy father and mother that it may be well with you and you can live long on the earth?"

These threads are so similar, and I'm not saying it's EASY to honor parents; I actually have old parents (who had me around late 30s/early 40s). But Poche was right: that commandment's one of the basics. Did we STOP teaching that somewhere down the line? Why are there so many young men ready to blame parents of ANY generation? (Many, it would seem, from the baby boomer generation). If they're in their 60s or 70s, maybe they should get an extra helping of respect. "That it may be well with you and you can live long on the earth."

Or not. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

The young man was not dishonouring his parents, very far from it, rather simply relating the reality of how he was raised and pointing out that this has had an impact on his work ethic. It is no different, in form, from pointing out that someone raised in a worldly household will need more time and conscious effort to build up his spiritual life, than would someone raised in a good Catholic family. I would say precisely the same thing about my boomer parents, with the sole addition that, being a few years older than McFiggly, I have had more time to retrain my habits.

My mother once asked me how in my opinion she and my father could have been better parents. I said they should have been more strict. She agreed and said that was the basic conclusion they had reached themselves.

soulguard · « **Reply #56 on:** December 11, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »

Quote from: Memento

I was being appreciative of the fact that McFiggly is Catholic and he is in a better position than many of the people of this world who do not have means to receive grace to correct their faults. He can especially learn from his elders on this forum. He would also do well to learn from St. Francis of Assisi, as I learned from him. St. Francis' father was a merchant who wanted him to have "the good things in life" . St. Francis realized his own errors, owned up to them, got right with God and chose the best life. He did not blame his parents for his own worldliness.

And to StCecilia'sGirl- No matter how old McFiggly's parents are, you are right, they deserve respect because of the 4th Commandment. You have given a correction to this young man, which is an act of charity, and he, God willing, will change his behavior.

I was astonished when reading a prayer written by St. Alphonsus de Ligouri where he asked God forgiveness for the sins of his youth. At first I thought that it was a prayer he wrote for the likes of me but then I thought, maybe he was a sinner too. I am not saying St. Alphonsus was a great sinner in his youth, but we do know that the greatest sinners have at times become the greatest saints.

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does Mc Figgly need to apologise for?

It seems that some people are taking it as a given that he has committed the sin of sloth because of his arguments ( very well made arguments) that it was wrong to see unemployment as a justification for humiliation.

What about the vanity that comes with employment in secular society?
He seems to be without any strong sense of vanity on this subject, and he sees the truth, which is why I say that he espouses a virtuous opinion, and should not apologise for anything. He is gone apparently because he has taken the words of those on this thread to heart and convinced himself that he was wasting his time. I must ask, where do we get posters as articulate as he has been, they are needed here to raise the standard of the forum and benefit the education of people like myself. I also notice that no one is criticising the OP for this thread, but perhaps people should, because pride is a sin, and pride in one's position in a godless world is an evil pride that cultivates vanity and disinterest in the holy. I can see that many posters here have lost the sense of appreciation of the holy, because when a traditional Catholic is not working, living on welfare, that does not mean that they stop doing whatever they are interested in. They will devote themselves to study or good works. The criteria of employment in secular society does not equal good works, unless you are a doctor or lifeguard or similar. Employment is just about money, it is not a good work in itself, and if some Catholic has lost a sense of purpose for being employed, then let him go, and live on welfare, until he does something with his time that will be a genuine work for the greater good. Secular employment will only destroy his soul. I speak from experience, college turns people into sponges. In any case, this was a malicious thread against the unemployed who are men, and I am content to let this thread die and be forgotten.

Graham · « **Reply #57 on:** December 11, 2013, 04:31:19 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

McFiggly, you need to take the words 'career', 'promotions', and 'corporate ladder-climbing' out of your vocabulary right now & replace them with 'WORK'. Then get to work looking for WORK, even if it's lowly & menial. Someone has to bus tables. Someone has to clean toilets. Someone has to feed & milk cows. Someone has to scrub the floors in schools, hospitals, restaurants, etc. Someone has to wash dishes. Someone has to pick strawberries. Why can't that be you?

Someone also has to work stained glass, turn ceramics, design and build environmentally-friendly houses, restore furniture, and other jobs of an artisanal nature. For someone like McFiggly, who seems to me to have the makings of an original personality, this sort of solitary and creative work could be exactly what would motivate him to conquer his sloth.

To McFiggly, if you are still reading this thread: I believe it is possible to escape the corporate career world and the spiritually meaningless work it offers, finding work that not only pays the bills but provides fulfillment and interior growth in its own right. I believe this due to the network I've built of men and women who have done it. The catch is that to succeed in this path requires not less effort and sacrifice -- but in most cases, more. On the other hand, the love you feel for the work will render the burden light.

Memento · « **Reply #58 on:** December 11, 2013, 05:50:46 PM »

I cannot see that there is black or white in this discussion. We all have to get past these deficient generations- and there are lots of them lately - and make the corrections, whatever they happen to be, within ourselves and then move on to help others find their way if that is our place.

World War II and Vatican II influenced the baby boomer parents' generation. Those men that went to war sacrificed their lives when some of them were what we call "boys" now. Then women filled their positions in the job force. Things righted themselves for a little while but women got a taste of "freedom". Around the time of Vatican II, from what I can see, the world went crazy. So even the boomers' parents were becoming confused.

Each generation was influenced by the events of its time and each developed their own shortcomings. I wonder how God sees all of it? Does He take into account the shortage of grace or our we completely culpable for all of our weaknesses? We have to make an account of our lives when we meet Our Maker and we will be judged for the gifts and grace He sent us and what we did with them.

We are given the gift of reason around seven years old. We know what is right by then. We may not have the right influences but we also may be given opportunities later to make up for it. Whatever our duty is in our state in life is what we should be doing to our best ability. If it is contemplation, then do that. If it is ironing, cooking and cleaning or wielding a hammer, spatula in a greasy spoon restaurant or typing on a computer, well do that. Sometimes, as it was for St. Bernadette, it is being sick. We should do it for the love of God.

Thorn · « **Reply #59 on:** December 11, 2013, 06:12:05 PM »

Graham, totally agree with you. Thanks for expanding his work viewpoint.