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Author Topic: The Great Chastisement  (Read 663 times)

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Re: The Great Chastisement
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 08:26:44 PM »
Brace yourself, as I was told many times as a young man, "it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better."

Not long after the changes began, I would say late 60s - early 70s, the pioneering trads of the day, like you thought for certain the world was about to end at any time because of the atrocities happening back then within the Church and to society.

Well, 60 years later and I can say they were 100% right, and that it's still "going to get a lot worse before it gets better."

Pray 15 decades every day.
How could they have been "100% right" if here we are 60 years later and the world did not, in fact, end?

Re: The Great Chastisement
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 08:30:11 PM »
Firstly, not every one who believes that the new rites are invalid is a sede.

They are sede or sede-lite. The mainstream SSPX officially accepts the new rites as valid. So do the FSSP and Indult. The Church cannot give us invalid rites.

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Secondly it's not heretical. Pope Pius 12th defined the form for consecration of bishops, V2 changed that form which makes it doubtful with a positive doubt. The Church teaches that doubtful sacraments must be held as invalid and you cannot unless receive in danger of death.

Something does not have "positive doubt" just because you personally doubt it. Valid Popes gave us the new rites, hence they cannot be invalid.

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Also the new rite of ordination for priests has the same issues as the anglican rite, which Pope Leo 13 condemned as utterly null and void, citing their internal intention by judging the external changes.

No, it doesn't. The ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, and it has judged the new rites to be valid. That never happened for the truly condemned anglican rites.

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Real Catholics are those who follow what the Church teaches and not the false concillar vatican 2 imitation of the Catholic Church.

Real catholics remain in communion with Rome and the OUM of hte Church.
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Re: The Great Chastisement
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 08:41:06 PM »
They are sede or sede-lite. The mainstream SSPX officially accepts the new rites as valid. So do the FSSP and Indult. The Church cannot give us invalid rites.

Something does not have "positive doubt" just because you personally doubt it. Valid Popes gave us the new rites, hence they cannot be invalid.

No, it doesn't. The ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, and it has judged the new rites to be valid. That never happened for the truly condemned anglican rites.

Real catholics remain in communion with Rome and the OUM of hte Church.
Prayers for your conversion 

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: The Great Chastisement
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 10:49:42 PM »
They are sede or sede-lite. The mainstream SSPX officially accepts the new rites as valid. So do the FSSP and Indult. The Church cannot give us invalid rites.

Something does not have "positive doubt" just because you personally doubt it. Valid Popes gave us the new rites, hence they cannot be invalid.

Circular reasoning, you assume that these men are valid Popes so you then assume the rites are valid. But the rites contradict Catholic teaching, and these 'Popes' as well with their heresies/apostast.

No, it doesn't. The ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, and it has judged the new rites to be valid. That never happened for the truly condemned anglican rites.

Pope Leo literally declared them "utterly null and void".

Real catholics remain in communion with Rome and the OUM of hte Church.

Real Catholics obey God and His Church. Vatican 2 does not have the 4 marks of the Church and it teaches error. Even if you want to say the new rites are valid, the new mass alone is not Catholic. It does not have a Catholic offertory. There is no sacrifice. It is impossible for the Church to issue a false new mass that is sinful and displeasing to God.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: The Great Chastisement
« Reply #29 on: Today at 04:40:21 AM »
How could they have been "100% right" if here we are 60 years later and the world did not, in fact, end?
They were 100% right because things have indeed progressively gotten worse, not that the world would end.