Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8

Author Topic: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism  (Read 9782 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 48402
  • Reputation: +28575/-5349
  • Gender: Male
Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2023, 07:32:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 12, 2023, 07:14:56 AM
    If the goal of modern atheists is to portray medieval Catholics as superstitious and ignorant by ascribing to them a belief in a flat earth, to discredit the true religion, we should not be surprised to learn in this article that that false myth was invented by Voltaire.

    Anti-Catholics will pass up no opportunity to smear the Church, whether it's over Geocentrism and Galileo, or the Inquisition, or pedophile priests, or whatever their latest smear job is.  It's because they don't want to accept the truth of the Church, so they come up with reasons to justify their contempt for it ... until, as we saw with Voltaire on his deathbed, they realize they're about to meet their Maker.

    Unfortunately, the latest is where a lot of conservative Protestants are smearing the Church for the antics of Jorge Bergoglio, where even they call him out for heresy, and for being in lockstep with the Globalists.
    Logged

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 750
    • Reputation: +404/-122
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #16 on: June 12, 2023, 09:20:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Always the same thing.

    > Enemies bring up the inquisition, the crusades, Galileo, etc.

    Novus Ordites: "Actually the inquisition killed only a few people, and Galileo wasn't burned. It wasn't that bad!"

    Catholics: "We're proud of all of it."
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48402
    • Reputation: +28575/-5349
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #17 on: June 12, 2023, 11:34:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on June 12, 2023, 09:20:11 AM
    Always the same thing.

    > Enemies bring up the inquisition, the crusades, Galileo, etc.

    Novus Ordites: "Actually the inquisition killed only a few people, and Galileo wasn't burned. It wasn't that bad!"

    Catholics: "We're proud of all of it."

    Or, LOL, yeah, Galileo should have been burned.

    I love how so many Prots are hostile to the Muslims (favoring the Jews) and want the Muslims wiped out ... but then out of the other side of their mouths condemn the Church for the crusades.
    Logged

    Offline OABrownson1876

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 762
    • Reputation: +638/-30
    • Gender: Male
      • The Orestes Brownson Society
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #18 on: June 12, 2023, 12:33:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I am still reading the article by Fr. Weil, but his dismissal of Lactansius because he is "not considered one of the fathers"  is not a small matter.  Lactantius was held in esteem by St. Jerome.  I have read several of the Catholic Univ. volumes on history by Lactansius.  It is difficult for me to believe that Lactansius would hold this position if he were the only Western father to do so.  The church father Origen was never canonized but the argument could be made that he is superior to all the canonized fathers.  St. Jerome says he wrote 2,000 works. 
    Logged
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
    PO Box 17248
    2312 S. Preston
    Louisville, Ky. 40217; email:letsgobryan@protonmail.com. substack: bryanshepherd.substack.com
    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76

    Offline OABrownson1876

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 762
    • Reputation: +638/-30
    • Gender: Male
      • The Orestes Brownson Society
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #19 on: June 12, 2023, 12:42:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on June 12, 2023, 09:20:11 AM
    Always the same thing.

    > Enemies bring up the inquisition, the crusades, Galileo, etc.

    Novus Ordites: "Actually the inquisition killed only a few people, and Galileo wasn't burned. It wasn't that bad!"

    Catholics: "We're proud of all of it."
    And Galileo was living in a papal palace receiving a papal pension.  So much for persecution!
    Logged
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
    PO Box 17248
    2312 S. Preston
    Louisville, Ky. 40217; email:letsgobryan@protonmail.com. substack: bryanshepherd.substack.com
    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #20 on: June 12, 2023, 01:02:21 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: OABrownson1876 on June 12, 2023, 12:33:44 PM
    I am still reading the article by Fr. Weil, but his dismissal of Lactansius because he is "not considered one of the fathers"  is not a small matter.  Lactantius was held in esteem by St. Jerome.  I have read several of the Catholic Univ. volumes on history by Lactansius.  It is difficult for me to believe that Lactansius would hold this position if he were the only Western father to do so.  The church father Origen was never canonized but the argument could be made that he is superior to all the canonized fathers.  St. Jerome says he wrote 2,000 works.

    Although his works are included in my Ante-Nicene Fathers collection, he is considered more of a rhetorician than theologian; more polished than profound (as the Catholic Encyclopedia puts it), and "The strengths and the weakness of Lactantius are nowhere better shown than in his work. The beauty of the style, the choice and aptness of the terminology, cannot hide the author's lack of grasp of Christian principles and his almost utter ignorance of Scripture."

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08736a.htm
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48402
    • Reputation: +28575/-5349
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #21 on: June 12, 2023, 01:38:23 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • I hate the old filtering out of contrary evidence by disparaging the authority of those who don't line up with the agenda.

    In any case, none of the Fathers based their position about the shape of the earth on Sacred Scripture (except for a few details), so this really wasn't a theological matter per se.

    Also mysteriously absent from the article was that the Antiochene Fathers (that include St. John Chrysostom) also held to a flat earth.

    And, most importantly, the Fathers who spoke of the world's shape being that of a sphere were talking about the world INCLUDING the spherical firmament, and the the earth on which we walk.  That is easily demonstrable, and at some point I'll write up the evidence for it (I've summarized it here before).

    On the other hand, EVERY SINGLE FATHER believed in a solid firmament, above which were real, actual waters.  But that's going to be ignored by the NASA-globe crowd.  Some Prots see the problem and developed the "water canopy" theory, but it doesn't hold water, pun intended LOL.  Their idea of a water canopy that collapsed at the time of the Flood doesn't fit with the fact that the Fathers believed that the waters were still there and still being supported by the firmament.
    Logged

    Offline Durango77

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 217
    • Reputation: +110/-76
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #22 on: June 12, 2023, 02:12:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 11, 2023, 12:49:00 PM
    Until someone can explain this (below) and also explain how there's a solid firmament around the globe earth that keeps waters out, I find globe theory completely unconvincing, the former being scientific reasons, the latter theological reasons.



    I'm not sure either way flat or sphere, I'm definitely open to the idea that the earth is flat because at this point my trust in "science" is basically 0 just due to what I saw happening during covid.  But are there any models that accurately predict the movement of the moon, eclipses, planets and stars that use flat earth as the basis?
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6795
    • Reputation: +3472/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #23 on: June 12, 2023, 02:56:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Durango77 on June 12, 2023, 02:12:12 PM
    I'm not sure either way flat or sphere, I'm definitely open to the idea that the earth is flat because at this point my trust in "science" is basically 0 just due to what I saw happening during covid.  But are there any models that accurately predict the movement of the moon, eclipses, planets and stars that use flat earth as the basis?

    I don't know if we can ever test the accuracy of any flat-earth models, but that doesn't discount FE, in my opinion. I too now question just about everything that modern science teaches, since I began believing in a flat earth.

    It's interesting that there's an SSPX article about FE. They must have a reason for publishing such a thing. Maybe it means that more trads are believing in FE, and they have to take a stand?

    I can see by the article that the author hasn't really investigated all the FE resources that are available. I don't attribute bad-will to him at all. He is just ignorant. I hope that he will eventually make a greater effort to study all of the facts.
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #24 on: June 12, 2023, 03:21:34 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Meg on June 12, 2023, 02:56:28 PM
    I too now question just about everything that modern science teaches, since I began believing in a flat earth.

    This is precisely the danger to be avoided ^^^

    Scandalized by scientific frauds (eg., COVID19, moon landing), we begin by rejecting real/all science, and become equally delusional (eg., gravity, rotating earth).
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6795
    • Reputation: +3472/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #25 on: June 12, 2023, 03:33:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 12, 2023, 03:21:34 PM
    This is precisely the danger to be avoided ^^^

    Scandalized by scientific frauds (eg., COVID19, moon landing), we begin by rejecting real/all science, and become equally delusional (eg., gravity, rotating earth).

    How would you define "real science?" How do you know it's real?
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48402
    • Reputation: +28575/-5349
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #26 on: June 12, 2023, 03:53:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Durango77 on June 12, 2023, 02:12:12 PM
    I'm not sure either way flat or sphere, I'm definitely open to the idea that the earth is flat because at this point my trust in "science" is basically 0 just due to what I saw happening during covid.  But are there any models that accurately predict the movement of the moon, eclipses, planets and stars that use flat earth as the basis?

    I know of know comprehensive FE model, but the ones out there do reasonably predict most of of these movements.  You also base this question on the assumption that the Globe model explains all this, but there are many occasions/situations where it does not.  Nor is it required to have a perfect FE model to know that the Globe model has been falsified.

    When we can see much father than we should ... and this has been proven time and time again ... the Globe Model fails, and then we go in search of another model.  That's how science works.  You don't need to have a full working alternative model to falsify an existing model or a perfect proven hypothesis to disprove an existing hypothesis.

    Just a few examples where the Globe Model fails (apart from see too far) ...
    -- selenelion eclipses
    -- scenarios like July 8, 2022 (where 99% of the inhabited world were in sunshine at the same time), totally impossible on a globe
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48402
    • Reputation: +28575/-5349
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #27 on: June 12, 2023, 03:54:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Meg on June 12, 2023, 03:33:47 PM
    How would you define "real science?" How do you know it's real?

    Exactly.  Where do we know the line between "real science" and fraudulent science?  Is 90% of "vaccine" science real?  Or 10%?  Or 0%?  Kaku indicates that cosmology is wrong by the biggest margin in the history of science.  We've been "taught" about "gravity" for centuries now, but even top physicists are questioning whether it actually exists, etc.  We're pretty much down to trying to investigate each "scientific" claim by looking at the evidence ourselves.

    We could say the same thing about history.  HUGE amounts of "history" are fraudulent and written with an agenda.  Where's the line?  Well, let me look at the primary sources.  Of course, as we get closer to our Orwellian futures, as more and more of our docuŠ¼ents go electronic, what's to stop "them" from altering the original sources?
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6795
    • Reputation: +3472/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #28 on: June 12, 2023, 04:24:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 12, 2023, 03:54:13 PM
    Exactly.  Where do we know the line between "real science" and fraudulent science?  Is 90% of "vaccine" science real?  Or 10%?  Or 0%?  Kaku indicates that cosmology is wrong by the biggest margin in the history of science.  We've been "taught" about "gravity" for centuries now, but even top physicists are questioning whether it actually exists, etc.  We're pretty much down to trying to investigate each "scientific" claim by looking at the evidence ourselves.

    We could say the same thing about history.  HUGE amounts of "history" are fraudulent and written with an agenda.  Where's the line?  Well, let me look at the primary sources.  Of course, as we get closer to our Orwellian futures, as more and more of our docuŠ¼ents go electronic, what's to stop "them" from altering the original sources?

    Agreed. We can see that in the main three branches of science (formal sciences, natural sciences, social sciences), that there has been a campaign to force us believe in something that doesn't line up with the author of all sciences: God. He must be our first criteria for measuring any science. For example, social science now teaches that a man is a woman if that man thinks he is a woman. And in the natural sciences, there's the issue of modern science telling us that the the earth is 4.543 billion years old (according to Wiki). This is in conflict with Scripture. There are other example too, and you've provided good examples as well.

    I agree that we are forced to look at scientific claims for ourselves. Yes, there is an agenda going on; whether it's for money, or to discount Christian/biblical/traditional viewpoints, or just because one doesn't want to think outside of modern "science."

    Wiki description of the branches of science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_science
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Article Against Flat-Erthism
    « Reply #29 on: June 12, 2023, 04:29:43 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Meg on June 12, 2023, 03:33:47 PM
    How would you define "real science?" How do you know it's real?

    That will be up for debate, but what is certain is that holding ALL "scientific" conclusions doubtful is clearly an error which necessarily leads to delusion.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."
    Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
    « previous next »