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Author Topic: Psychology and personality  (Read 3312 times)

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Offline Jitpring

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Psychology and personality
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2012, 06:54:15 PM »
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  • Psychology is not a modern invention. There's much psychology in the Bible, in Homer, in Plato, in Aristotle, in Augustine, in Aquinas, and on and on. The issue isn't psychology, but true and false psychology.
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Marcelino

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    Psychology and personality
    « Reply #16 on: March 30, 2012, 09:50:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Quote from: Marcelino
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    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.


    Not really. It's soaked in modernism. Holy fear, shame, and guilt are, in fact, vitally needed.

    The basic problem of psychology involves having a telos. Those without any transcendent purpose are bound to fall prey to today's prevailing nihilism. This is good:

    Christ and Nothing



    Well, aren't you falling for the modern purpose driven life craze?   :jester: Of course, you can't find much of a purpose in life without God, but you can't find much meaning to life either, in particular, your suffering!  (remember, Monty Python????)  And what hope do you have to resolve your guilt, without Christ?  Just being a good person or saving the rain forest or making a million dollars doesn't cut it.  In other words, purpose is just one piece of the puzzle.  

    You can say, your purpose in life is to glorify God.  That seems correct.  But how does that resolve your fear, shame and guilt, when you mess up and  offend your Maker?  He has to have provided a way out for you.  Otherwise, you're terrified of Judgment (to a degree that isn't motivating, but rather paralyzing).  You're so overburdened with guilt (like ten tons on your back), that instead of being  motivated, you can't get out of bed!  And you're so ashamed of your weakness, that you pathetically try to hide from your Maker, rather than boldly approach Him.  Fear, shame and guilt, Bam, right there.  Where's the "modernism?"



    The modernism is in the underlying Freudianism.

    As for purpose, it's no accident that the Baltimore Catechism #3, for instance, begins with this: On the End of Man. Then the first question:

    What do we mean by the "end of man"?

    A. By the "end of man" we mean the purpose for which he was created: namely, to know, love, and serve God.


    The resolution of (unholy) fear, shame, and guilt are not ends - as modernists would have us believe - but means to this end.

    The focus on telosgoes far beyond today's "Purpose Driven" hucksters, at least as far back as Aristotle. Indeed beyond:

    " In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin."

    -Ecclesiasticus 7:40


    I don't see any "underlying Freudianism" in my posts, but whatever, I like the rest of what you have to say.  


    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #17 on: March 30, 2012, 11:05:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Psychology is not a modern invention. There's much psychology in the Bible, in Homer, in Plato, in Aristotle, in Augustine, in Aquinas, and on and on. The issue isn't psychology, but true and false psychology.


    Yeah, but are we talking about self control (good morals) or external control (big brother).  If all you want to do is control people, then there's no need to teach them self control, in fact it's probably a liability and I think that's what modern psych is about:  tyrrany/mind control/domination/big brother/abuse of authority/fleecing/taking advantage of/selfishness/greed/whatever.




     






    Offline Maizar

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    Psychology and personality
    « Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 01:05:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Jitpring
    Psychology is not a modern invention. There's much psychology in the Bible, in Homer, in Plato, in Aristotle, in Augustine, in Aquinas, and on and on. The issue isn't psychology, but true and false psychology.


    Yeah, but are we talking about self control (good morals) or external control (big brother).  If all you want to do is control people, then there's no need to teach them self control, in fact it's probably a liability and I think that's what modern psych is about:  tyrrany/mind control/domination/big brother/abuse of authority/fleecing/taking advantage of/selfishness/greed/whatever.


    Quite right. Yes, ideas about the psyche existed well before Christianity, but they are theories and ideas only, and can only pretend to be true. That's not to say the way a brain works can't or shouldn't be known. As Marcelino says the purpose of modern psychology and psychoanalysis is not about discovering the truth, but exploitation of those who participate in it. In fact there is little evidence that any of the psychoanalytical techniques are superior to just having a friendly chat.

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 06:20:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Maizar
    Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Jitpring
    Psychology is not a modern invention. There's much psychology in the Bible, in Homer, in Plato, in Aristotle, in Augustine, in Aquinas, and on and on. The issue isn't psychology, but true and false psychology.


    Yeah, but are we talking about self control (good morals) or external control (big brother).  If all you want to do is control people, then there's no need to teach them self control, in fact it's probably a liability and I think that's what modern psych is about:  tyrrany/mind control/domination/big brother/abuse of authority/fleecing/taking advantage of/selfishness/greed/whatever.


    Quite right. Yes, ideas about the psyche existed well before Christianity, but they are theories and ideas only, and can only pretend to be true. That's not to say the way a brain works can't or shouldn't be known. As Marcelino says the purpose of modern psychology and psychoanalysis is not about discovering the truth, but exploitation of those who participate in it. In fact there is little evidence that any of the psychoanalytical techniques are superior to just having a friendly chat.


    The chat is probably safer!   :laugh1:


    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #20 on: March 31, 2012, 06:22:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Psychology is not a modern invention. There's much psychology in the Bible, in Homer, in Plato, in Aristotle, in Augustine, in Aquinas, and on and on. The issue isn't psychology, but true and false psychology.


    I've heard of the classical psychological image of the horse (our passions), the bridle (the will) and the rider (reason).