Author Topic: Psychology and personality  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline Kephapaulos

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Psychology and personality
« on: March 29, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »
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  • What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 11:20:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Offline Jitpring

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    Offline Jitpring

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    « Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 12:31:49 PM »
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  • Also watch:

    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 03:08:02 PM »
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  • Without faith, humility is kinda tough.  Pride will drive anybody "nuts."






    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 03:21:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.

    Offline Jitpring

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    « Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.


    Not really. It's soaked in modernism. Holy fear, shame, and guilt are, in fact, vitally needed.

    The basic problem of psychology involves having a telos. Those without any transcendent purpose are bound to fall prey to today's prevailing nihilism. This is good:

    Christ and Nothing

    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 05:26:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.


    Not really. It's soaked in modernism. Holy fear, shame, and guilt are, in fact, vitally needed.

    The basic problem of psychology involves having a telos. Those without any transcendent purpose are bound to fall prey to today's prevailing nihilism. This is good:

    Christ and Nothing



    Well, aren't you falling for the modern purpose driven life craze?   :jester: Of course, you can't find much of a purpose in life without God, but you can't find much meaning to life either, in particular, your suffering!  (remember, Monty Python????)  And what hope do you have to resolve your guilt, without Christ?  Just being a good person or saving the rain forest or making a million dollars doesn't cut it.  In other words, purpose is just one piece of the puzzle.  

    You can say, your purpose in life is to glorify God.  That seems correct.  But how does that resolve your fear, shame and guilt, when you mess up and  offend your Maker?  He has to have provided a way out for you.  Otherwise, you're terrified of Judgment (to a degree that isn't motivating, but rather paralyzing).  You're so overburdened with guilt (like ten tons on your back), that instead of being  motivated, you can't get out of bed!  And you're so ashamed of your weakness, that you pathetically try to hide from your Maker, rather than boldly approach Him.  Fear, shame and guilt, Bam, right there.  Where's the "modernism?"














    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 05:29:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    Of course pretending that fear shame and guilt don't really exist, but are all just in your mind or "culturally relative," makes people nuts, because life isn't really that way.  


    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 05:31:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    Suppression of the Rite of Exorcism in all its forms

    Horror of Suffering

    Fear of Human Respect

    weird food additives

    the drug epidemic

    TELEVISION and related mєdια

    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 05:34:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.


    Not really. It's soaked in modernism. Holy fear, shame, and guilt are, in fact, vitally needed.

    The basic problem of psychology involves having a telos. Those without any transcendent purpose are bound to fall prey to today's prevailing nihilism. This is good:

    Christ and Nothing



    But that's exactly the point. You are only able to know that and make those distinctions with the eyes of the Faith. Without that people are lost and seriously messed up. Some struggle to deal with fear, shame and guilt without knowing what direction to take them; others deny they should exist altogether; others repress them; others twist them into something unholy. Only with the Cross are we able to use them to our sanctification.


    Offline Maizar

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    « Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 06:08:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino

    Well, aren't you falling for the modern purpose driven life craze?   :jester: Of course, you can't find much of a purpose in life without God, but you can't find much meaning to life either, in particular, your suffering!  (remember, Monty Python????)  And what hope do you have to resolve your guilt, without Christ?  Just being a good person or saving the rain forest or making a million dollars doesn't cut it.  In other words, purpose is just one piece of the puzzle.  

    You can say, your purpose in life is to glorify God.  That seems correct.  But how does that resolve your fear, shame and guilt, when you mess up and  offend your Maker?  He has to have provided a way out for you.  Otherwise, you're terrified of Judgment (to a degree that isn't motivating, but rather paralyzing).  You're so overburdened with guilt (like ten tons on your back), that instead of being  motivated, you can't get out of bed!  And you're so ashamed of your weakness, that you pathetically try to hide from your Maker, rather than boldly approach Him.  Fear, shame and guilt, Bam, right there.  Where's the "modernism?"


    Psychology is a modern concept attempting to explain the inner workings of Man with the distinct assumption that he is without a soul, so it fails from the outset. There is often reference to the 'spiritual' dimension, but it is really only used to refer to the bits that cannot be easily explained, or as a tool to work with patients. Spirituality is equated with Placebo.

    Behavioral science merely observes Man's behavior given a set of circumstances and as such has refined psychology or in some cases refuted it. I think it is useful to us as because it is strictly an observational science and its findings generally should not contradict the truth.

    Catholicism on the other hand provides the answers in its moral theology (defining what is correct behavior), mysticism and liturgical life. It recognizes that without nourishment for the soul, the hope of attaining perfection is zero.

    As for why people are ashamed of their weakness, etc, it is very simple but very difficult. What Christ taught in his parables and sermons, and what all the saints proved, is that humility is absolutely necessary for salvation. It's the first step, in my opinion. If we were humble enough, we would realize that God knows our every imperfection and that he doesn't mind that we have them, as such. It is a fact that most the quirks that predispose us to straying away in a certain direction will never go away, and God knows this. What is required is a recognition that we are imperfect, that we need perfecting and that through Christ is the only way this can occur.

    Pride leads us to the inability to forgive ourselves, and so avoid seeking the forgiveness of God. This is of course putting the cart before the horse, but that is what pride leads us to do. The hardest problem is with habitual sin, because people seem not to think of sin beyond a single event requiring a single act of contrition, whereas in reality the contrite habitual sinner needs to be aware that he is embarking on a lifetime of work, something that is very unlikely to be fixed in a single visit to a confessional! Priests should be telling this in confessionals to their faithful.

    Offline Jitpring

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    « Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 06:20:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Jitpring
    Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: Marcelino
    Quote from: Kephapaulos
    What things account for why many have psychological and personality problems in the modern world today?


    I think the basic problem of psychology is to resolve fear, shame and guilt.  So, without Christ's sacrifice on The Cross, that would be hard to do.  

     


    Besides some elements that are physical, this is an awesome answer. It's really it in a nutshell.


    Not really. It's soaked in modernism. Holy fear, shame, and guilt are, in fact, vitally needed.

    The basic problem of psychology involves having a telos. Those without any transcendent purpose are bound to fall prey to today's prevailing nihilism. This is good:

    Christ and Nothing



    Well, aren't you falling for the modern purpose driven life craze?   :jester: Of course, you can't find much of a purpose in life without God, but you can't find much meaning to life either, in particular, your suffering!  (remember, Monty Python????)  And what hope do you have to resolve your guilt, without Christ?  Just being a good person or saving the rain forest or making a million dollars doesn't cut it.  In other words, purpose is just one piece of the puzzle.  

    You can say, your purpose in life is to glorify God.  That seems correct.  But how does that resolve your fear, shame and guilt, when you mess up and  offend your Maker?  He has to have provided a way out for you.  Otherwise, you're terrified of Judgment (to a degree that isn't motivating, but rather paralyzing).  You're so overburdened with guilt (like ten tons on your back), that instead of being  motivated, you can't get out of bed!  And you're so ashamed of your weakness, that you pathetically try to hide from your Maker, rather than boldly approach Him.  Fear, shame and guilt, Bam, right there.  Where's the "modernism?"



    The modernism is in the underlying Freudianism.

    As for purpose, it's no accident that the Baltimore Catechism #3, for instance, begins with this: On the End of Man. Then the first question:

    What do we mean by the "end of man"?

    A. By the "end of man" we mean the purpose for which he was created: namely, to know, love, and serve God.


    The resolution of (unholy) fear, shame, and guilt are not ends - as modernists would have us believe - but means to this end.

    The focus on telosgoes far beyond today's "Purpose Driven" hucksters, at least as far back as Aristotle. Indeed beyond:

    " In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin."

    -Ecclesiasticus 7:40
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Jitpring

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    « Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 06:26:44 PM »
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  • .
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 06:45:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Maizar
    Quote from: Marcelino

    Well, aren't you falling for the modern purpose driven life craze?   :jester: Of course, you can't find much of a purpose in life without God, but you can't find much meaning to life either, in particular, your suffering!  (remember, Monty Python????)  And what hope do you have to resolve your guilt, without Christ?  Just being a good person or saving the rain forest or making a million dollars doesn't cut it.  In other words, purpose is just one piece of the puzzle.  

    You can say, your purpose in life is to glorify God.  That seems correct.  But how does that resolve your fear, shame and guilt, when you mess up and  offend your Maker?  He has to have provided a way out for you.  Otherwise, you're terrified of Judgment (to a degree that isn't motivating, but rather paralyzing).  You're so overburdened with guilt (like ten tons on your back), that instead of being  motivated, you can't get out of bed!  And you're so ashamed of your weakness, that you pathetically try to hide from your Maker, rather than boldly approach Him.  Fear, shame and guilt, Bam, right there.  Where's the "modernism?"


    Psychology is a modern concept attempting to explain the inner workings of Man with the distinct assumption that he is without a soul, so it fails from the outset. There is often reference to the 'spiritual' dimension, but it is really only used to refer to the bits that cannot be easily explained, or as a tool to work with patients. Spirituality is equated with Placebo.

    Behavioral science merely observes Man's behavior given a set of circumstances and as such has refined psychology or in some cases refuted it. I think it is useful to us as because it is strictly an observational science and its findings generally should not contradict the truth.

    Catholicism on the other hand provides the answers in its moral theology (defining what is correct behavior), mysticism and liturgical life. It recognizes that without nourishment for the soul, the hope of attaining perfection is zero.

    As for why people are ashamed of their weakness, etc, it is very simple but very difficult. What Christ taught in his parables and sermons, and what all the saints proved, is that humility is absolutely necessary for salvation. It's the first step, in my opinion. If we were humble enough, we would realize that God knows our every imperfection and that he doesn't mind that we have them, as such. It is a fact that most the quirks that predispose us to straying away in a certain direction will never go away, and God knows this. What is required is a recognition that we are imperfect, that we need perfecting and that through Christ is the only way this can occur.

    Pride leads us to the inability to forgive ourselves, and so avoid seeking the forgiveness of God. This is of course putting the cart before the horse, but that is what pride leads us to do. The hardest problem is with habitual sin, because people seem not to think of sin beyond a single event requiring a single act of contrition, whereas in reality the contrite habitual sinner needs to be aware that he is embarking on a lifetime of work, something that is very unlikely to be fixed in a single visit to a confessional! Priests should be telling this in confessionals to their faithful.


    Yeah, I think psychology is basically about how to control people and Catholicism is about how to be of service.  So, one comes from love and the other from hate.  I think that's clear, wether you mean Freud or Watson.  

    ""Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select--doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief, and, yes, even beggarman and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors. I am going beyond my facts and I admit it, but so have the advocates of the contrary and they have been doing it for many thousands of years." –John B. Watson, Behaviorism, 1930"

    http://psychology.about.com/od/profilesofmajorthinkers/p/watson.htm

    On the other hand, people seek out help from psychology, because they have real needs and the best they're going to find, in my opinion, is a description of their problem and an explanation that if their life was perfect, they wouldn't be that way, but since it isn't, oh well, but you know, please pay me a bunch of money for basically doing nothing of much good.  Thanks and I hope you don't kill yourself, before I squeeze the last penny out of you.  In other words, it's a field that basically trains you to go out and take advantage of people.  There's probably somebody here who's gonna be so outraged at me saying this, probably because they have their master's in psychology and a license to practice, but what did psychoanalysis provide, but years of expensive therapy, that basically led to patients having their morals corrupted and, not surprisingly, never really getting any better.  And then Behaviorism is the same kind of thing.  Read, "Hidden Persuaders."  It's a way to trick people into doing what you want them to do.  In other words, it's just about control and that's the critique that's constantly leveled by people today against religion!  So that seems to be, to use a Freudian term, just a big fat "projection" of guilt, onto the victim.  










     

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