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Author Topic: Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids  (Read 2588 times)

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Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2010, 03:03:14 PM »
Quote from: clare
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote from: clare
Quote from: Telesphorus

The primary end of marriage is procreation.


Actually, the primary end of marriage is the procreation and education of children.



Let's be clear though.  What is meant by the "education of children" has almost nothing to do with college education.


I wasn't thinking of that.

In today's society, school-schooling is becoming less of an option (unless you're lucky enough to live near an SSPX school). So, what does the large Catholic family who wants to give their children a good sound Catholic education do? Supposing they actually are not very good at home-schooling, but rightly do not want to send their children to school? They may fulfill the "procreation" part of the primary end, but the "education" part is not so easy!


Yes it's very difficult.  I think in some cases, when governments persecute, emigration becomes something to consider.  

Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 05:02:46 PM »
Quote from: PartyIsOver221
That article was utter rubbish. I still think that what might have been the norm 1500 years ago is not something that is applicable in today's society.


It was applicable in 1938 when my grandparents married.  What's changed so drastically in 70 years?   Modernism and feminism, that's what.  My grandmother and grandfather hardly knew each other when they married, yet he provided her a lovely warm home on a nice farm.  She gave him 8 children, 4 of whom she lost to miscarriage.  He loved her more than any man could love a woman, and my grandmother adored and loved that man till her dying day---and she spent 20 years on this earth grieving his death.  I don't believe they had a darn thing in common, except she liked to cook and he liked to eat.

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People married 10 year old girls a long time ago. A 10 year old girl today is no where near what she was mature-wise, skill-wise, etc., as yesteryear.


Um, you are kidding right.  Perhaps you are thinking of Mohameddans who enjoyed this arrangement.  I've been doing genealogy for DECADES and I have yet to find anyone who was marrying a girl of 10.  From reading the Scripture, I don't believe this was the practice even then.  These young girls would have still been considered children.  Where do you get these ideas that someone would even advocate that?


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 If the couple today is relatively close in age (same, or fluctuating within 5 years), there's a much higher chance for common interests, sharing of bonds, relationship growing, rather than "hey I'm the provider and you're the baby-maker".


Relationships are not magically "grown" because people are close in age and share similar interests.  Relationships grow when two people work toward a common goal.  They grow through struggle, sacrifice, love, care, concern, and most importantly through the Sacraments.

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I'm traditional to the core, but is that the norm that the most important thing is the man needs to be just the provider (no emotion), and the woman is just the baby-grower (no emotion back to him)?


I don't know.  I do know that a lot of people who call themselves "traditional" Catholics are really "conservative" Catholics.  They don't believe that the so called "traditional" family is either practical or necessary.  They have embraced modernism and feminism, just as the rest of society has.

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Creating life is an amazing experience, I'm sure of it, but marriage has a unitive component that should also be addressed in order to facilitate a healthy marriage (aka going on dates still even after 10 years of being together, buying flowers (or growing your own, if you are a real OTG'er), and going on a vacation every now and then (local or abroad... more likely local in today's political/financial climate).


Are you married and do you have children?  Creating life is an amazing experience?  What is that?  I'm not capable of creating anything.  The Lord of Lords creates life.  My husband and I are just participants in that process.  My husband and I just had a conversation about this.  I can not even imagine the kind of people we would be had we not embraced God's plan for us to have children.  We have grown closer BECAUSE of our children.  Every time he massages my aching feet when I'm pregnant, I love him more.  I make certain that in the mornings before he goes off to work, his shirt is ironed and his belly is full.  He does those things for me because he loves and appreciates me.  I am home raising and loving his children.  I appreciate him because he works hard to pay our bills.  I could care less if we go to Disney World, but I love it when he brings me home a Frosty.  

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Parents need to be the Catholic mentors they should be...teaching starts in the home...but the home must learn first from the Church.


The home must learn first from the Church?  Well, then let's see what the Church says.

Q. 1010. What are the chief ENDS of the Sacrament of Matrimony?

A. The chief ends of the Sacrament of matrimony are:

To enable the husband and wife to aid each other in securing the salvation of their souls;
To propagate or keep up the existence of the human race by bringing children into the world to serve God;
To prevent sins against the holy virtue of purity by faithfully obeying the laws of the marriage state.

Hmm.  I don't see anything there about being the unitive aspect of marriage.
 
The Church also tells us that there are some EFFECTS of the Sacrament of Matrimony.

Q. 1028. Which are the effects of the Sacrament of Matrimony?

A. The effects of the Sacrament of Matrimony are:

To sanctify the love of husband and wife;
To give them grace to bear with each other's weaknesses;
To enable them to bring up their children in the fear and love of God.

But there's more. The Church even goes on to take a stab at what makes marriages unhappy.

 
Q. 1044. Why do many marriages prove unhappy?

A. Many marriages prove unhappy because they are entered into hastily and without worthy motives.

Q. 1045. When are marriages entered into hastily?

A. Marriages are entered into hastily when persons do not sufficiently consider and investigate the character, habits and dispositions of the one they intend to marry. It is wise to look for lasting qualities and solid virtues in a life-long companion and not to be carried away with characteristics that please only for a time.

Q. 1046. When are motives for marriage worthy?

A. Motives for marriage are worthy when persons enter it for the sake of doing God's will and fulfilling the end for which He instituted the Sacrament. Whatever is opposed to the true object of the Sacrament and the sanctification of the husband and wife must be an unworthy motive.


Considering my duty is to educate my children, I instructed our 18 year old son that he would be wise to get his education (he desires to be a lawyer) and find a young woman who is not career oriented.  My husband suggested that he look for a young woman who is faithful to God, honest, warm, and without a shrill voice.  


Offline MaterDominici

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Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 01:29:18 AM »
Quote from: clare
In today's society, school-schooling is becoming less of an option (unless you're lucky enough to live near an SSPX school). So, what does the large Catholic family who wants to give their children a good sound Catholic education do? Supposing they actually are not very good at home-schooling, but rightly do not want to send their children to school? They may fulfill the "procreation" part of the primary end, but the "education" part is not so easy!


I seems many Catholic homeschoolers are extra hard on themselves because they are forced into a situation that they otherwise wouldn't choose. This is another interesting topic -- what constitutes a good home education? It certainly isn't always an acceptance letter from top-notch colleges.

Since it's a bit off-topic here, I'll let whomever wants to discuss this start a new thread.  :smile:

Offline MaterDominici

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Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 01:48:22 AM »
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
I find there's far more objection to a man over 30 talking to an 18 year old girl than there is to a boy seriously dating during his first year of college.


I can just guess what they would say at fisheaters about this.

No one can say it isn't Catholic for a man over 30 to marry a woman under 20.

But you would think it's worse than any heresy by the way people react to it.



I think if a ~33 year old were eyeing my ~18 year old daughter, I'd be sizing him up much in the way a life insurance salesman scopes out new clients.  :smirk:

Seriously, though, my grandparents were only 4 months apart in age and she's already had to live 35 years +/- without him.

Pathetic looking down on woman who married early to have kids
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 08:20:24 AM »
I work with a lady that is an Evangelical-not sure her financial state in life, but she is out 1/3 of the time du eto a sick kid, etc and often can be heard on the phone discussing the kids or trying to work out some daycare/doctor issue for them

a real loss in productivity and vending out motherhood to others. She could stay home, mother the kid and let dad work out the rest...then again, society and the Powers that Be have made darn sure that dad cannot earn a living to keep up with costs, inflation,etc.etc....sorry, Dr. Laura, not all of us are rich jews!!! (her advice is always to tell dad to get 2-3 jobs to supprot family, hence never at home to parent at all and mom to not marry a 'loser')