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Offline MaterDominici

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Marriage question
« on: August 10, 2012, 01:05:08 AM »
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  • Two scenarios:

    First, a Catholic marries a person of another faith outside the Church.

    Second, a Catholic marries within the Church, divorces (no annulment), and then remarries outside the Church.

    Is the nature of the two resulting marriages any different?
    I know the first would be easier to rectify, but in the meantime are they any different?
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 01:12:52 AM »
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  • Good question.

    My Dad will soon be placing himself in scenario #2.

    I think that's worse because it adds the element of adultery.
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25


    Offline catherineofsiena

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #2 on: August 10, 2012, 01:50:24 AM »
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  • My guess under the old law...

    #1 = fornication.  No marriage recognized and the Catholic is considered excommunicated.

    #2 = adultery.
    For it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed. Matthew 26:31

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 04:32:59 AM »
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  •   Can people who live in mortal sin progress in holiness? If a marriage between a catholic and a pagan is fornication then it means that a saint like St. Monica was living in mortal sin when she was living with her pagan husband. Didn't she receive any Eucharist all those years? She was progressing in holiness so it couldn't have been a mortal sin.

    Offline Nishant

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 06:14:31 AM »
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  • Spouse of Jesus, St.Monica was not living in sin. In the early Church, dispensations were sometimes granted for such so-called mixed marriages, even between a baptized Christian and an unbaptized pagan, provided there was a necessity.

    To answer MaterDominici's question, a marriage contracted between two baptized persons, including a Catholic and a Protestant, would be valid but unlawful. A marriage between a Catholic and a non-Christian however would be null and void.

    So in the first case, I do not think it would count as fornication, but in the latter it would.

    A dispensation for marriages of the first sort is granted when the non-Catholic person agrees to allow his/her spouse the free practice and profession of the Catholic religion, the Catholic spouse in turn promises to bring up the children in the Faith, and further to do what is possible to bring the other spouse to the profession of true Faith.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline clare

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 06:26:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant2011
    To answer MaterDominici's question, a marriage contracted between two baptized persons, including a Catholic and a Protestant, would be valid but unlawful.

    Not if they married outside the Catholic Church, as in MaterDominici's first scenario.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 02:44:45 PM »
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  • Thank you for the replies.

    I know many who fall into the first category (generally marrying in a Protestant church). I also know a couple of instances of the second scenario.

    My mind thinks of the second as a much more grievious offense. I was wondering if the Church sees them as equally sinful or if one would be moreso than the other.

    I'm probably inclined to not think too harshly of the first situation because I mostly know Catholics who were raised in the NO and then married in Protestant churches. With the way things are these days, there's not exactly much difference between the two.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 02:48:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    My mind thinks of the second as a much more grievious offense.


    Adultery is much more grievous.


    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 03:02:45 PM »
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  • I used to want my parents to seek a decree of nullity, but now that I know most annulments are invalid anyway, it seems pointless.  They know I think they are both committing adultery and they don't seem to care.  

    Pray for the sanctity of marriage as an indissoluble union.

    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Belloc

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 03:08:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: catherineofsiena
    My guess under the old law...

    #1 = fornication.  No marriage recognized and the Catholic is considered excommunicated.

    #2 = adultery.


    I remember reading in history, with dispensation, Catholic can marry outside the Church provide said other person is Orthodox or Prot........
    no marriage to a muslim, jew, pagan......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:10:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Nishant2011
    To answer MaterDominici's question, a marriage contracted between two baptized persons, including a Catholic and a Protestant, would be valid but unlawful.

    Not if they married outside the Catholic Church, as in MaterDominici's first scenario.


    right.....exactly, must get the proper dispensations,etc...cant jsut run off the the Church of the Good Sola Fide or something, then turn up at Mass next week...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 03:11:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: MaterDominici
    My mind thinks of the second as a much more grievious offense.


    Adultery is much more grievous.


    Truth, sorry for this grief visited on you, Penitent
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline songbird

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    Marriage question
    « Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 08:19:28 PM »
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  • My mother, widow, wanted to marry a protestant with 2 divorces, under his sleeve.  My mom being N.O. went to her priest and he told my mom to bless their(whatever?) and get married by a minister. And no sacraments until he could get an annulment for his 2 divorces.  My mom's sister-in-law, protestant, had her minister marry them in her home.(Minister wouldn't do it in his own church).  My brother said he would join my mom and marry his lady. (They being both catholics)  Now you have 2 couples excommunicated.  My mom was told by her priest that he would ask for annulments of the 2 divorces of the man she supposedly, married.  (Can you follow this?)  So, the N.O., in a year had the annulment. my mom was told she could receive sacraments after confession.  WALLA! Then they married in the N.O.  and my so-called step dad is now a catholic.  Are they married?  Not in my eyes.  Why?  Because first of all my mom has no sorrow.  The whole thing was rigged.  They celebrate their anniversary on the date of the wedding in my Aunts home.  And my brother?  I don't know what he did?  So, I never congratulate them on their anniversary and my whole family is mad with me.  Oh, well!  I spoke with my mom and asked her, what was the grounds of annulment.  HE did not know divorce was wrong.  I thought, hm, then if he knows now, then there should be no marriage, after all, he is a catholic now.  Hm?!  Then I asked my mom, did you marry in the Catholic church, she said, yes.  What date was that?  She does not recall.  Did a Bishop lift your excommunication?  She was mad and said, it was her decision to marry my step dad.  So, I have been in the dog house for 15 years!

     

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