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Author Topic: Lard on abstinence days  (Read 5866 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Lard on abstinence days
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2024, 08:33:12 AM »
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  • “The prohibition extends only to the flesh of mammals and birds, including the fat, blood, marrow, brains, heart, liver etc. Lawful foods are fish, frogs, turtles, snails, mussels, clams, oysters, crabs etc. ... Likewise lawful are margarine, and meat extracts that have lost the taste of meat or broth, e.g. gelatine; likewise gelatine products of animal origin, but not soup cubes that contain meat ingredients.” -Jone, Moral Theology
    Does that make lard, butter and cheeses not ok?

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #16 on: February 02, 2024, 08:35:32 AM »
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  • “The prohibition extends only to the flesh of mammals and birds, including the fat, blood, marrow, brains, heart, liver etc. Lawful foods are fish, frogs, turtles, snails, mussels, clams, oysters, crabs etc. ... Likewise lawful are margarine, and meat extracts that have lost the taste of meat or broth, e.g. gelatine; likewise gelatine products of animal origin, but not soup cubes that contain meat ingredients.” -Jone, Moral Theology
    This doesn't make sense to me. I thought soups (broth) made from meat are a no go, so what if the taste changes?


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #17 on: February 02, 2024, 09:32:48 AM »
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  • This doesn't make sense to me. I thought soups (broth) made from meat are a no go, so what if the taste changes?

    You aren’t reading this correctly, it’s “lost the taste of meat or broth” you bolded the word “broth” for no reason. Also, “NOT soup cubes”, so what you always thought was correct.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #18 on: February 02, 2024, 10:28:38 AM »
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  • Does that make lard, butter and cheeses not ok?

    Butter and cheese might not be vegan, but their fat comes from milk -- not from the side of an animal.
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    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #19 on: February 02, 2024, 11:01:36 AM »
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  • Does that make lard, butter and cheeses not ok?
    Lard as a seasoning is fine.  Eating lard in and of itself, such as pork cracklings, would not be. 

    Butter and cheeses are fine. 

    I think you may be a bit scrupulous about this. 


    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #20 on: February 02, 2024, 11:04:21 AM »
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  • This doesn't make sense to me. I thought soups (broth) made from meat are a no go, so what if the taste changes?
    Please re-read the quote from Jone.  He specifically says meat broths are NOT allowed.  

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #21 on: February 02, 2024, 11:55:45 AM »
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  • Please re-read the quote from Jone.  He specifically says meat broths are NOT allowed. 

    The way Jone phrases this is a bit clumsy and I can see the ambiguity.  Keep in mind that the book was originally in German.  In some places the English translation is a little weird.  I don't have the original, and even if I did, I don't read German well enough, to be able to see fine distinctions in phrasing.  Probably just as well.

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #22 on: February 02, 2024, 12:16:25 PM »
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  • Not sure if this applied pre-Vatican II, but my understanding is that it must have the taste of meat, to fall under the prohibition.  To me, anyway, lard does not have a "meaty" taste.  In something such as a pie crust, you would have to be told that it contains lard. 
    This is what my priest said when I was asking about gelatin. Also a meat byproduct but doesn't have a meaty taste.
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #23 on: February 02, 2024, 01:54:19 PM »
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  • Remember that abstinence is about obedience. Something not having the flavor of meat is more likely about situations where a Catholic couldn't easily determine the ingredients and thus wouldn't be committing a mortal sin if he bought something like plain frybread that could have been fried in anything. Otherwise, "not having the flavor of meat" becomes a huge subjective loophole.

    Remember too the history of the changes in the Church's requirements. In northern Europe centuries ago before trade brought such imports, most people had no access to vegetable oils, and that's how butter and even lard became acceptable dispensations for certain locations. Also, not knowing what your lunch is fried in is a situation that arose due to urbanization and industrialization, when Catholic laborers away from home had to make do with whatever a non-Catholic (Protestant, apostate, etc.) food vendor was selling. Back to the basic premise of obedience, which assumes personal control over and knowledge of one's own actions.
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    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #24 on: February 02, 2024, 03:13:03 PM »
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  • Are insects safe to eat on Friday?

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #25 on: February 02, 2024, 03:59:45 PM »
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  • Lard as a seasoning is fine.  Eating lard in and of itself, such as pork cracklings, would not be.

    Butter and cheeses are fine.

    I think you may be a bit scrupulous about this.
    I mistakenly thought lard was also a milk product.


    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #26 on: February 02, 2024, 06:03:04 PM »
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  • Just so everyone is aware, lard is rendered pork fat. The rendered leaf fat (internal body fat that surrounds the organs) is the most neutral tasting of animal fats. Crisco is a poor imitation of leaf lard. Lard can be made from rendering the subcutaneous fat from the pig, but it is not as neutral tasting as leaf lard. It does not contain meat, as it would get removed by the rendering process. 
    I use lard on Fridays. I also make salo or lardo when I harvest my pigs which is cured back fat, eat raw. I would not eat this on Friday. 

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #27 on: February 02, 2024, 06:27:37 PM »
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  • Just so everyone is aware, lard is rendered pork fat. The rendered leaf fat (internal body fat that surrounds the organs) is the most neutral tasting of animal fats. Crisco is a poor imitation of leaf lard. Lard can be made from rendering the subcutaneous fat from the pig, but it is not as neutral tasting as leaf lard. It does not contain meat, as it would get removed by the rendering process.
    I use lard on Fridays. I also make salo or lardo when I harvest my pigs which is cured back fat, eat raw. I would not eat this on Friday.


    Sorry, I accidentally gave you a thumbs down. I will make that up in another post.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #28 on: February 02, 2024, 06:29:59 PM »
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  • Yes, insects may be eaten on Friday.  So may reptiles, fish, amphibians, such as alligator, snake, eel, snails, turtles, grubs, mealworms, arachnids, and crustaceans.  Caviar is acceptable as is the meat of the iguana and the sea cucuмber.  I’m unsure of the duckbill platypus.  Maybe those of from the Southern Hemisphere know the answer.  

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Lard on abstinence days
    « Reply #29 on: February 02, 2024, 06:41:43 PM »
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  • Yes, insects may be eaten on Friday.  So may reptiles, fish, amphibians, such as alligator, snake, eel, snails, turtles, grubs, mealworms, arachnids, and crustaceans.  Caviar is acceptable as is the meat of the iguana and the sea cucuмber.  I’m unsure of the duckbill platypus.  Maybe those of from the Southern Hemisphere know the answer. 
    I had always assumed that if it was from the sea it was fine but if land or air (birds land to sleep) then it's not fine. Seeing snake here is interesting.