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Author Topic: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic  (Read 8204 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2024, 09:03:47 AM »
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  • This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.

    Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
    ...
    Am I right about this?

    No, you're not right.  If someone is sincerely mistaken, in material error only, in ignorance, not only might they have certain feelings, but God might actually reward them with actual graces.

    I believe it was in prophecy of St. Ann Catherine Emmerich where she says that the Eucharist would be invalid (in this false new church), i.e. they would be receiving only bread, but that God would reward those who are sincerely mistaken with some actual graces in response so their dispositions.

    If I went to receive Holy Communion at a NOM right now, I assure you that I would be perturbed and disturbed deeply by it, feeling the need to go to Confession.  Feeling are not objective measures of reality.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #16 on: February 24, 2024, 09:09:36 AM »
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  • On top of that, not all Traditional Catholics hold that the Novus Ordo Holy Orders and Masses are invalid ... so there's that false assumption right out of the gate.  Being a Traditional Catholic is distinct and separable from one's opinion regarding the validity of NOM Sacraments.  We wouldn't go to Eastern Orthodox churches either, despite the fact that they have valid Sacraments.


    Offline Cornelius935

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #17 on: February 24, 2024, 01:07:25 PM »
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  • Ironically for you Ivan, even the Novus Ordo catechism teaches (correctly, even citing Trent & the Denzinger) that:

    “Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.” (#2005)

    So if you wish to rely on your “feelings” to return to the Novus Ordo, you contradict what even the Novus Ordo officially believes.

    You should get yourself catechised one way or another, using a pre-Vatican II catechism (NOT the aforementioned Conciliar catechism, which is a mix of truths and errors), instead of posting such a dangerous suggestion online. It seems to me that to try to “test” apparent sacraments like that is to “tempt the Lord thy God”.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #18 on: February 24, 2024, 01:33:55 PM »
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  • On top of that, not all Traditional Catholics hold that the Novus Ordo Holy Orders and Masses are invalid ... so there's that false assumption right out of the gate.  Being a Traditional Catholic is distinct and separable from one's opinion regarding the validity of NOM Sacraments.  We wouldn't go to Eastern Orthodox churches either, despite the fact that they have valid Sacraments.
    That is true. Traditional Catholics don’t all believe the novus ordo is invalid, the priests and sacraments are invalid.  No Traditional Catholic can proclaim invalid as a dogma unless he’s one of those self-proclaimed “Popes.”  
    I think it fair to say most Traditional Catholics reject the novus ordo as harmful, even deadly to one’s faith.  At the very least, we all believe the novus ordo is bad, severely deficient.  
    Otherwise, large numbers of us wouldn’t make the sacrifices we do to hear Traditional Mass, whether that be driving for hours to get there and back, or saving up gas and toll money to go once a month rather than popping conveniently in to our local novus ordo.  
    Once Francis and his bishops close and consolidate half of the dying novus ordo parishes, many people with a “take it or leave it” attitude towards the faith will find themselves having to drive an hour or more to Mass, or in big cities, discover they can no longer walk or get public transportation to church. A lot of these will choose to “leave” it, maybe going only on Christmas and Easter.  Even more churches will be shut down and the faith will virtually disappear, just as Our Lady has said.  The Traditional Faith will be among the scattered Catholics hanging on in remote locations.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #19 on: February 24, 2024, 03:12:12 PM »
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  • Loosing the True Faith is bad enough.  Does it have to be done on this forum too?


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #20 on: February 24, 2024, 04:24:56 PM »
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  • I feel that this fellow will soon be banned.

    It is wiser to think than to feel.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #21 on: February 24, 2024, 04:32:48 PM »
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  • Loosing the True Faith is bad enough.  Does it have to be done on this forum too?

    This way he can't say that nobody warned him.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: How to Stop Being Traditional Catholic
    « Reply #22 on: February 24, 2024, 04:58:42 PM »
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  • I feel that this fellow will soon be banned.

    It is wiser to think than to feel.
    .

    Fair enough.

    I think he will be banned soon. :laugh1: