Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Ivan on February 23, 2024, 08:06:27 PM
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
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It has absolutely nothing to do with feewings. :fryingpan:
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
What if I go to an Eastern schismatic church, confess my sins to the priest, and then have the same "feelings" you describe here?
I know you've said you are scrupulous, but you need to realize that feelings are not superior to reason merely because the virtue of faith is.
Reflect well on this, for as St. Paul warned us:
"For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light." - 2 Cor. 11:13-14
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
"There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to destruction." (Proverbs)
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Yes, go with your feelings. What could possibly go wrong, if everyone just did what they felt was right at the moment? While you're at it, you should divorce your spouse if you stop FEELING infatuation and other good feelings. Or if you feel drawn to someone who is not available (because you and/or she is married), then you have to be true to your feelings and pursue her. Feelings are where it's at, man.
::)
Are you SERIOUS?
Let's just say the whole Catholic Church tried "your way" (going with obedience, the New Mass, communion in the hand -- the whole Conciliar Church basket) and look where it got us! Look around you. How many Catholics have the Faith? How many fast or abstain EVER? How many have even ONE child more than the average among their non-Catholic friends, co-workers and relatives? How many attend Mass every Sunday? How many believe in the Real Presence, Purgatory, communion of Saints, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary -- the list is endless.
The dead bodies are all around us. We don't need to make the case to YOU or anyone else that there is a Crisis in the Church, and that the Conciliar Religion is bankrupt, broken. That should be self-evident to anyone with an objective eye and no agenda.
I like to give my fellow Catholics the benefit of the doubt. So I have to hope you're just ignorant and duped. But your sensational (clickbait?) topic titles almost force me to conclude that you are some kind of troll.
At any rate, you won't fit in on this Traditional Catholic forum. I don't know why you're here. If you're here to convert us (the only possible reason, besides trolling) then goodbye. If you're here to troll, then goodbye.
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
Angela felt amazing and spiritually uplifted at the protestant revival
John felt closer to God after going to an Orthodox liturgy.
Ahmed was full of zeal after reading the Quran
Simply put, no, you aren't right...
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
Friend you will do well to read the works of St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross.
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If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel:
No and no. True Catholicism is not based on feelings.
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Yes, go with your feelings. What could possibly go wrong, if everyone just did what they felt was right at the moment? While you're at it, you should divorce your spouse if you stop FEELING infatuation and other good feelings. Or if you feel drawn to someone who is not available (because you and/or she is married), then you have to be true to your feelings and pursue her. Feelings are where it's at, man.
::)
Are you SERIOUS?
Let's just say the whole Catholic Church tried "your way" (going with obedience, the New Mass, communion in the hand -- the whole Conciliar Church basket) and look where it got us! Look around you. How many Catholics have the Faith? How many fast or abstain EVER? How many have even ONE child more than the average among their non-Catholic friends, co-workers and relatives? How many attend Mass every Sunday? How many believe in the Real Presence, Purgatory, communion of Saints, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary -- the list is endless.
The dead bodies are all around us. We don't need to make the case to YOU or anyone else that there is a Crisis in the Church, and that the Conciliar Religion is bankrupt, broken. That should be self-evident to anyone with an objective eye and no agenda.
I like to give my fellow Catholics the benefit of the doubt. So I have to hope you're just ignorant and duped. But your sensational (clickbait?) topic titles almost force me to conclude that you are some kind of troll.
At any rate, you won't fit in on this Traditional Catholic forum. I don't know why you're here. If you're here to convert us (the only possible reason, besides trolling) then goodbye. If you're here to troll, then goodbye.
Excellent point. But what about those Catholics in countries where all there are are Novus Ordo priests or in very remote area there is a SSPX priest but we can't know if it's conditionaly ordained or not. We DON'T KNOW if the new rite of ordination is valid, or nor, or even doubtful. It's a matter of private opinion for laymans. Church, or valid, true Catholic pope in the future will have to make a decision, ruling about that also. I have felt good after conffessions to a franciscian friar, Novus ordo, who believes in apparitions in Medjugorje, preaches about Valtorta like bishop Williamson. He is conservative, but still modernist beacuse bad education. It was earlier, now I wait to travel far to an SSPX chapel or confession, Mass. I can't go regulary as I want and as God and Church requires for Sunday obligation.
And someone would say pray the 15 decades of the rosary, make an act of perferct contrition often. But can we really depend just on that, between few monthes or longer, even years?
It bothers me that I can't know if God forgives me because I can't know is my act of contrition perfect. Even saints didn't know for sure, and always pointed to regular confession, Eucharist, and spiritual director. But most of them lived in times when hierarchy, most of them had the Catholic and Apostolic faith.
Is there a consolation for some of us in this situation? Sorry if I ask this, I should try to search older topics....
If a Novus Ordo priest, or SSPX priest is ordained in new rite, would my confession be valid and accepted by God?
Does Church supplies jurisdiction based on common error?
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=aIspfWvkgzg&si=k00un28h5yr-Tv5j
:fryingpan:
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Sorry for writing errors, I type on smartphone fast and forget to check before clicking "post". I know English well, I read more texts in English than in Croatian language in past 5 years. Does this "spell check" works like in MS Word or Outlook??
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Why would anyone on CI want to stop being traditional? :confused:
But if someone did want that, he’d just stop. It’s not a cult.
Instructions aren’t needed.
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
Effects you should feel: clean conscience, deep peace, healing of the soul and an intellectual and spiritual awareness that they are valid. There is no way of being mistaken about this.
Many Catholics who receive sacraments don't feel anything because they receive them sacrilegiously, that is, while in a state of mortal sin.
An individual who soon after receiving the sacraments loses Sanctifying Grace may think that the sacrament at the Novus Ordo have no effect and that they are therefore invalid is actually a person who is still in the first Spiritual State aka. Purgative State who does not clearly know what and where they committed a mortal sin that made them lose Sanctifying Grace. I met few people like this.
Am I right about this?
Why bother with confession and communion?
Simply go to a psychiatrist to lose your faith and feel good about it!
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TROLL ALERT!!!
(https://i.imgur.com/OSAZknR.png)
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Yes, go with your feelings. What could possibly go wrong, if everyone just did what they felt was right at the moment? While you're at it, you should divorce your spouse if you stop FEELING infatuation and other good feelings. Or if you feel drawn to someone who is not available (because you and/or she is married), then you have to be true to your feelings and pursue her. Feelings are where it's at, man.
::)
Are you SERIOUS?
Let's just say the whole Catholic Church tried "your way" (going with obedience, the New Mass, communion in the hand -- the whole Conciliar Church basket) and look where it got us! Look around you. How many Catholics have the Faith? How many fast or abstain EVER? How many have even ONE child more than the average among their non-Catholic friends, co-workers and relatives? How many attend Mass every Sunday? How many believe in the Real Presence, Purgatory, communion of Saints, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary -- the list is endless.
The dead bodies are all around us. We don't need to make the case to YOU or anyone else that there is a Crisis in the Church, and that the Conciliar Religion is bankrupt, broken. That should be self-evident to anyone with an objective eye and no agenda.
I like to give my fellow Catholics the benefit of the doubt. So I have to hope you're just ignorant and duped. But your sensational (clickbait?) topic titles almost force me to conclude that you are some kind of troll.
At any rate, you won't fit in on this Traditional Catholic forum. I don't know why you're here. If you're here to convert us (the only possible reason, besides trolling) then goodbye. If you're here to troll, then goodbye.
In this particular case, I lean towards converting us.
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This is an easy test and it's intended for those who believe Novus Ordo mass and other sacraments are invalid.
Prepare for confession as if the sacraments at your local Novus Ordo church were valid. If after Confession and Eucharist you feel the power of the sacraments, then they are valid, an easy test.
...
Am I right about this?
No, you're not right. If someone is sincerely mistaken, in material error only, in ignorance, not only might they have certain feelings, but God might actually reward them with actual graces.
I believe it was in prophecy of St. Ann Catherine Emmerich where she says that the Eucharist would be invalid (in this false new church), i.e. they would be receiving only bread, but that God would reward those who are sincerely mistaken with some actual graces in response so their dispositions.
If I went to receive Holy Communion at a NOM right now, I assure you that I would be perturbed and disturbed deeply by it, feeling the need to go to Confession. Feeling are not objective measures of reality.
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On top of that, not all Traditional Catholics hold that the Novus Ordo Holy Orders and Masses are invalid ... so there's that false assumption right out of the gate. Being a Traditional Catholic is distinct and separable from one's opinion regarding the validity of NOM Sacraments. We wouldn't go to Eastern Orthodox churches either, despite the fact that they have valid Sacraments.
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Ironically for you Ivan, even the Novus Ordo catechism teaches (correctly, even citing Trent & the Denzinger) that:
“Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.” (#2005)
So if you wish to rely on your “feelings” to return to the Novus Ordo, you contradict what even the Novus Ordo officially believes.
You should get yourself catechised one way or another, using a pre-Vatican II catechism (NOT the aforementioned Conciliar catechism, which is a mix of truths and errors), instead of posting such a dangerous suggestion online. It seems to me that to try to “test” apparent sacraments like that is to “tempt the Lord thy God”.
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On top of that, not all Traditional Catholics hold that the Novus Ordo Holy Orders and Masses are invalid ... so there's that false assumption right out of the gate. Being a Traditional Catholic is distinct and separable from one's opinion regarding the validity of NOM Sacraments. We wouldn't go to Eastern Orthodox churches either, despite the fact that they have valid Sacraments.
That is true. Traditional Catholics don’t all believe the novus ordo is invalid, the priests and sacraments are invalid. No Traditional Catholic can proclaim invalid as a dogma unless he’s one of those self-proclaimed “Popes.”
I think it fair to say most Traditional Catholics reject the novus ordo as harmful, even deadly to one’s faith. At the very least, we all believe the novus ordo is bad, severely deficient.
Otherwise, large numbers of us wouldn’t make the sacrifices we do to hear Traditional Mass, whether that be driving for hours to get there and back, or saving up gas and toll money to go once a month rather than popping conveniently in to our local novus ordo.
Once Francis and his bishops close and consolidate half of the dying novus ordo parishes, many people with a “take it or leave it” attitude towards the faith will find themselves having to drive an hour or more to Mass, or in big cities, discover they can no longer walk or get public transportation to church. A lot of these will choose to “leave” it, maybe going only on Christmas and Easter. Even more churches will be shut down and the faith will virtually disappear, just as Our Lady has said. The Traditional Faith will be among the scattered Catholics hanging on in remote locations.
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Loosing the True Faith is bad enough. Does it have to be done on this forum too?
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I feel that this fellow will soon be banned.
It is wiser to think than to feel.
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Loosing the True Faith is bad enough. Does it have to be done on this forum too?
This way he can't say that nobody warned him.
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I feel that this fellow will soon be banned.
It is wiser to think than to feel.
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Fair enough.
I think he will be banned soon. :laugh1: