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Author Topic: How much does a man need to make to support a family?  (Read 3506 times)

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Offline Domingo Banez

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How much does a man need to make to support a family?
« on: February 28, 2023, 02:09:05 AM »
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  • My spiritual director told me he thinks I’m called to marriage. I’m currently finishing up my BA but I wonder how much I’d need to make to support a family.

    I’ve looked at the MIT Living Wage Calculator but their estimates seem extreme. They say that a family of 5( with one parent at home) would need an income of around 86k. Is this accurate? I want to have a large family but worry about finances.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #1 on: February 28, 2023, 06:10:56 AM »
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  • My spiritual director told me he thinks I’m called to marriage. I’m currently finishing up my BA but I wonder how much I’d need to make to support a family.

    I’ve looked at the MIT Living Wage Calculator but their estimates seem extreme. They say that a family of 5( with one parent at home) would need an income of around 86k. Is this accurate? I want to have a large family but worry about finances.
    I think that there are many variants.  Here are some things to consider:

    1.  When you first get married you can survive on less than a large family might need.

    2.  Where you live makes a difference.

    3.  If you live frugally and buy clothes from thrift stores and/or make some of your own clothes and have a garden this can help your costs.

    4.  Homeschooling vs. sending children to private schools can change your budget a lot.

    5.  Renting or buying a small vs. big house to live in.  If you buy a house that is a fixer upper it might not be perfect but you might be able to get it for cheaper and fix it over time.

    6.  Is your prospective spouse frugal?

    I have known many people to make $50k when they first got married.  Most people eventually made more though to help support their families once they got larger.  Back in the day once a young man was 10-12 he had a summer job to help support himself and his family and daughters were helping around the house with cooking cleaning and sewing.  If you can implement that into your family it might also help.

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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 06:58:47 AM »
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  • Honestly, don’t worry too much about it. I make way less the MIT chart says, and we get by. I have 4 kids, soon to be 5, with the oldest being 7. When things have gotten tight something has always come up that has gotten us through. Last year some side work almost miraculously fell into my lap that allowed me to make $5k cash in 4 days. There have been multiple examples like this in the last few years. Go without entertainment and certain comforts, live frugally, and most of all trust in the Lords provision. 

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 07:41:15 AM »
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  • Honestly, don’t worry too much about it. I make way less the MIT chart says, and we get by. I have 4 kids, soon to be 5, with the oldest being 7. When things have gotten tight something has always come up that has gotten us through. Last year some side work almost miraculously fell into my lap that allowed me to make $5k cash in 4 days. There have been multiple examples like this in the last few years. Go without entertainment and certain comforts, live frugally, and most of all trust in the Lords provision.
    Although not a man, this was also my first reaction to the OP. Also, one does not know how many children God will bless them with during their married life (if any). Focus on finding a responsible, mature spouse first. And let go and let God. 

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 11:04:11 AM »
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  • Pay more attention to married Trad men who are doing it...and less attention to things like the MIT calculator. Those figures are crazy in my experience. They say each child costs a million dollars to raise to 18. News to me! I have 9 kids.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 11:44:42 AM »
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  • I was making $67k at my previous job, and once we got out of debt it was PLENTY to provide for my family.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Comrade

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #6 on: February 28, 2023, 12:05:43 PM »
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  • In my 25 years of experience of raising a family, these are items that can keep you in debt

    1. Catholic private school - if homeschool is not doable for you, then prepare to go into debt or finding additional means of income, especially if you send them away to board. For a few years I had $30K private school annual bill. Let's just say you don't always get what you paid for.
    2. Eating out
    3. Man has no clear career direction, no savings, any debt. The man should be well established in his career: no school/credit debt, homeowner, savings, etc. 
    4. Not living near relatives - you will find yourself in situations that will hit your finances harder since you don't have family nearby. Even an unexpected plane trip could cost you $1000.
    5. Not marrying a thrifty wife. My wife finds way to make things go farther but I wished she would use coupons.

    Offline Joe Cupertino

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #7 on: February 28, 2023, 12:22:42 PM »
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  • I don’t make what MIT says is needed for a family of 5, and I support a family of 9 (7 children, ages 8 mths to 12 yrs).  We live very happily.  

    That’s not to say there shouldn’t be any concern about having a sufficient income for marriage; just that modern calculators will leave you overly concerned.  Though, I will acknowledge that my family has been blessed in many ways outside of our control, and circuмstances do seem to make it more difficult to marry and start supporting a family now, then when I did in 2009.  The most obvious example is buying a home for the first time in 2009, compared to now.
     
    Comrade made some good points.




    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #8 on: February 28, 2023, 12:39:00 PM »
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  • Lots of variables, and one to pay close attention to is cost of living in different parts of the country.

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #9 on: February 28, 2023, 12:54:18 PM »
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  • My spiritual director told me he thinks I’m called to marriage. I’m currently finishing up my BA but I wonder how much I’d need to make to support a family.

    I’ve looked at the MIT Living Wage Calculator but their estimates seem extreme. They say that a family of 5( with one parent at home) would need an income of around 86k. Is this accurate? I want to have a large family but worry about finances.
    MIT?? More like JEW... IT

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #10 on: February 28, 2023, 01:40:02 PM »
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  • God will provide. What you NEED, not necessarily what you want. And going back to that discussion on Human Respect -- God won't shield you from having to be humble -- pick up (perfectly good) things being given/thrown away, accepting donations, hand-me-downs, etc. Why would God shield you from an opportunity to practice such an important virtue?

    My wife and I intentionally lived below our means for many years, basically "pretending" we were poorer than we were, at least according to the world's standards. What I'm saying is: if you decide debt is not an option, you seem that much "poorer" to the average Modern. If you need to have a few thousand cushion and no debt, you say "I'm broke" or at least "We can't afford that." but for most people that would mean their credit card limit has been reached!

    But yes, those worldly "calculators" and foolishness that passes for wisdom -- that's an obvious attempt to discourage and propagandize Trad Catholics from having the family and children God would send them.

    I've seldom made more than $50K annually my entire LIFE -- just 3 years did my income exceed that. We have 9 children and acreage (not in the boonies either). My only "secrets" have been: debt-free lifestyle, diligence (hard work), frugality, and maybe the natural brains/talent that got me a $50K-ish income without college. We don't even know what a cut-off notice LOOKS LIKE from any of our utilities. We have lived a frugal and debt-free lifestyle from the beginning.

    I credit Thomas A. Nelson for teaching me about the true nature of money, debt, the JQ, etc. when I was a young teen during catechism classes. I realized that if I wanted to live like no one else (wife staying at home, having a large family, etc.) then I'd have to do something different than the average Joe. SOMETHING would have to give. Either I had to win the lottery, or do something else to set myself apart. You don't get to be "special" just because your Mom loves you. Everyone has that. You need to have something going for you, something different, that says that YOU get to be the lucky guy whose wife gets to stay home, and raise a much larger family than most. Frugality and consistent living below-my-means was that "something different".

    A young couple really has to treat it like a war, a game, or something along those lines. You have to be wise as serpents. Be clever, find ways to fix things, save money, do with less, and what not. You have to put some effort into it, but it's WELL WORTH IT.

    I can't emphasize enough the importance of choosing a GOOD, VIRTUOUS, FRUGAL woman for your wife. That's got to be a huge cross for many guys -- you work hard slaving for the man, and she spends on on "stupid s****". So many modern women do, including many Catholics and even Trad Catholics I'm sure. Too many clothes, shoes, MAKEUP, Jєωelry, travel, and countless other ways to fritter away your resources. Yes, a frugal, down-to-earth woman is a HUGE blessing, and MORE THAN MAKES UP for lots of perfect figure and symmetrical face. I'm saying "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife..." Choose a woman that isn't so hotly contested for. She'll keep you happier, take better care of the household and children -- you'll be much happier in the end, trust me. Looks fade.

    God provides differently for each person. Some he provides brains. Some, skills. Some, luck. Some, family and/or friends. Some, inheritance. Some, ambition/drive/a good career. Some, diligence. At any rate, you're not going to starve if you trust in God and do His will. Just be prudent. God gave you a brain and a body capable of X amount of work and diligence. Use that TIME and ENERGY wisely to arrange your life rationally and intelligently. Be a human, not an animal.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #11 on: February 28, 2023, 02:39:52 PM »
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  • I was making 35K when I got married in 2000.  Between second jobs, side gigs, God always provided pretty much exactly what I needed at any given time ... literally not a penny more some of the time (as sometimes found myself digging change out of couches to buy something I needed).  My brother got married making about $12 an hour in 1993.  Both of us, along with our wives, always refused to use NFP (despite my brother getting pressure form his father-in-law), welcomed whatever children God wished to send us, and God has provided.  When my brother was about to outgrow his little apartment, and wasn't sure how they'd handle his third child in that tiny space, a little investment he had made in a penny stock mysteriously took off, and he made enough to buy his (very nice) house outright.  I've found (or, rather, God found me) one job after another that I wasn't really qualified for but that I grew into, so that I'm doing very well now.  Somehow, with a degree in Greek and Latin, I'm now a Software Architect (have a job title of "Chief Architect") ... and most of my skills were honed when I was 10 years old teaching myself how to program in BASIC on an old Atari 400.  Computers were really expensive, and my Dad was never one to spend any money, but for some reason he bought this computer for us on impulse (something he never did).  Little did I know, until 20+ years later, that this impulse buy would affect the rest of my life from a material standpoint.

    Bottom line.  If we trust God and do His will, He'll provide what we need.  I've never heard of anyone in the US dying of starvation.  People always help.  There are always charities.  And of course our tax dollars pay for public assistance that can be had.  This is proper public assistance ... not the kind where people refuse to work and want to sponge off the public, but for families who've hit a hard time here or there.  We're in a different time now, of course, than the American dream era, from the 1950s on, where anyone who graduated High School could get a job that sufficed to raise a family.  I grew up next door to a man who could barely speak English, but who got a job at an aluminum factory.  He bought a house next door to ours, raised a family, and retired with a million-dollar pension ... but probably could barely add 2+2.  He just had to work, and he did.  But even though that era is long gone, God still takes care of us and will provide.  He asked us to welcome children in our marriage, and if we do so, He'll take care of what's needed.  There's no guarantee, of course, and we could always end up starving to death one day ... if / when things get worse ... but all of that is still completely under His control, and He has good reasons for it all.

    I recall one time when my wife was upset about a $20 bill she had misplaced, and she was getting all bent out of shape over it.  I told her, "It's only money.  God takes care of us."  No sooner had I finished the sentence, when the doorbell rang.  It was someone who had borrowed $20 I had forgotten about, there to give me the money.  I closed the door, turned to my wife, and handed her the $20.

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #12 on: February 28, 2023, 02:50:45 PM »
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  • God will provide. What you NEED, not necessarily what you want. And going back to that discussion on Human Respect -- God won't shield you from having to be humble -- pick up (perfectly good) things being given/thrown away, accepting donations, hand-me-downs, etc. Why would God shield you from an opportunity to practice such an important virtue?

    My wife and I intentionally lived below our means for many years, basically "pretending" we were poorer than we were, at least according to the world's standards. What I'm saying is: if you decide debt is not an option, you seem that much "poorer" to the average Modern. If you need to have a few thousand cushion and no debt, you say "I'm broke" or at least "We can't afford that." but for most people that would mean their credit card limit has been reached!

    But yes, those worldly "calculators" and foolishness that passes for wisdom -- that's an obvious attempt to discourage and propagandize Trad Catholics from having the family and children God would send them.

    I've seldom made more than $50K annually my entire LIFE -- just 3 years did my income exceed that. We have 9 children and acreage (not in the boonies either). My only "secrets" have been: debt-free lifestyle, diligence (hard work), frugality, and maybe the natural brains/talent that got me a $50K-ish income without college. We don't even know what a cut-off notice LOOKS LIKE from any of our utilities. We have lived a frugal and debt-free lifestyle from the beginning.

    I credit Thomas A. Nelson for teaching me about the true nature of money, debt, the JQ, etc. when I was a young teen during catechism classes. I realized that if I wanted to live like no one else (wife staying at home, having a large family, etc.) then I'd have to do something different than the average Joe. SOMETHING would have to give. Either I had to win the lottery, or do something else to set myself apart. You don't get to be "special" just because your Mom loves you. Everyone has that. You need to have something going for you, something different, that says that YOU get to be the lucky guy whose wife gets to stay home, and raise a much larger family than most. Frugality and consistent living below-my-means was that "something different".

    A young couple really has to treat it like a war, a game, or something along those lines. You have to be wise as serpents. Be clever, find ways to fix things, save money, do with less, and what not. You have to put some effort into it, but it's WELL WORTH IT.

    I can't emphasize enough the importance of choosing a GOOD, VIRTUOUS, FRUGAL woman for your wife. That's got to be a huge cross for many guys -- you work hard slaving for the man, and she spends on on "stupid s****". So many modern women do, including many Catholics and even Trad Catholics I'm sure. Too many clothes, shoes, MAKEUP, Jєωelry, travel, and countless other ways to fritter away your resources. Yes, a frugal, down-to-earth woman is a HUGE blessing, and MORE THAN MAKES UP for lots of perfect figure and symmetrical face. I'm saying "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife..." Choose a woman that isn't so hotly contested for. She'll keep you happier, take better care of the household and children -- you'll be much happier in the end, trust me. Looks fade.

    God provides differently for each person. Some he provides brains. Some, skills. Some, luck. Some, family and/or friends. Some, inheritance. Some, ambition/drive/a good career. Some, diligence. At any rate, you're not going to starve if you trust in God and do His will. Just be prudent. God gave you a brain and a body capable of X amount of work and diligence. Use that TIME and ENERGY wisely to arrange your life rationally and intelligently. Be a human, not an animal.
    This is very well said.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #13 on: February 28, 2023, 02:52:37 PM »
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  • and most of my skills were honed when I was 10 years old teaching myself how to program in BASIC on an old Atari 400.  Computers were really expensive, and my Dad was never one to spend any money, but for some reason he bought this computer for us on impulse (something he never did).  Little did I know, until 20+ years later, that this impulse buy would affect the rest of my life from a material standpoint.

    Same here!

    I grew up very poor. My dad got a small settlement for having his knee permanently damaged at work -- we're talking no more than $4,000. Yeah, he must not have had a good lawyer. Anyhow, I was strongly attracted to computer programming from age 7 when I first saw one at school. I knew that's what I wanted to be when I grew up. But I couldn't get my hands on a computer at all. There were no used options, garage sale computers, raspberry pi, none of that. Computers were super expensive and beyond my family's price range. Believe me, I checked the classifieds (in the newspaper) and we couldn't even afford a used one. Also, we had no friends or relatives with a PC either, that I could borrow or even "use at their house". I spent 8 years in that state. I was so desperate, I even wrote BASIC programs on notebook paper, looking forward to the day I could type them into a computer!

    Thanks to that settlement, we ended up finally getting our first PC in 1992, when I was about 15. I think it was $1200. It was an older closeout deal, a computer package. A Laser 386sx 20 MHz with 2 MB RAM, 100 MB hard drive, no multimedia (no sound card or CD-ROM), 14" color monitor, dot-matrix printer, and a modem *that you had to install* and by install, I don't mean pop it in and it's done. No, you had to be a super nerd to install it. I had to have a classmate install it before it would work! The computer had DOS and Windows 3.1. I never booted Windows 3.1, since it was fluff garbage, and quite slow on our severely underpowered PC. All my computer time was spent in DOS.

    As soon as I found Qbasic on that PC, that was all I ever did. Then I signed up for my first programming course in High School (they wouldn't let you take it until Sophomore year) and I borrowed the Quick Pascal 1.0 install disks and installed that at home. Then I switched to Pascal. I wrote SO MANY games (text, DOS) during that couple years, basically I taught myself to program. It was so simple and 2-dimensional back then. No complex libraries, no repositories, multiple versions, no APIs, none of that. That's what I fell in love with.

    But I thought the same thing as you -- what if my parents hadn't provided me that PC? Would I still have had a way to make a living? I did by my own first PC only a few years later (went into debt actually -- one of those "6 months no interest" deals at Best Buy) so maybe that would have been God's backup plan, if my folks hadn't cooperated.

    But still, you only have so many years in school, at home, with tons of free time to leisurely explore and really learn DEEPLY certain skills. Once that time is gone, it never returns. It's never the same once you're an adult, with sweethearts, families, spouses, full time work, etc.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How much does a man need to make to support a family?
    « Reply #14 on: February 28, 2023, 02:54:48 PM »
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  • I was making 35K when I got married in 2000.  Between second jobs, side gigs, God always provided pretty much exactly what I needed at any given time ... literally not a penny more some of the time (as sometimes found myself digging change out of couches to buy something I needed).  My brother got married making about $12 an hour in 1993.  Both of us, along with our wives, always refused to use NFP (despite my brother getting pressure form his father-in-law), welcomed whatever children God wished to send us, and God has provided.  When my brother was about to outgrow his little apartment, and wasn't sure how they'd handle his third child in that tiny space, a little investment he had made in a penny stock mysteriously took off, and he made enough to buy his (very nice) house outright.  I've found (or, rather, God found me) one job after another that I wasn't really qualified for but that I grew into, so that I'm doing very well now.  Somehow, with a degree in Greek and Latin, I'm now a Software Architect (have a job title of "Chief Architect") ... and most of my skills were honed when I was 10 years old teaching myself how to program in BASIC on an old Atari 400.  Computers were really expensive, and my Dad was never one to spend any money, but for some reason he bought this computer for us on impulse (something he never did).  Little did I know, until 20+ years later, that this impulse buy would affect the rest of my life from a material standpoint.

    Bottom line.  If we trust God and do His will, He'll provide what we need.  I've never heard of anyone in the US dying of starvation.  People always help.  There are always charities.  And of course our tax dollars pay for public assistance that can be had.  This is proper public assistance ... not the kind where people refuse to work and want to sponge off the public, but for families who've hit a hard time here or there.  We're in a different time now, of course, than the American dream era, from the 1950s on, where anyone who graduated High School could get a job that sufficed to raise a family.  I grew up next door to a man who could barely speak English, but who got a job at an aluminum factory.  He bought a house next door to ours, raised a family, and retired with a million-dollar pension ... but probably could barely add 2+2.  He just had to work, and he did.  But even though that era is long gone, God still takes care of us and will provide.  He asked us to welcome children in our marriage, and if we do so, He'll take care of what's needed.  There's no guarantee, of course, and we could always end up starving to death one day ... if / when things get worse ... but all of that is still completely under His control, and He has good reasons for it all.

    I recall one time when my wife was upset about a $20 bill she had misplaced, and she was getting all bent out of shape over it.  I told her, "It's only money.  God takes care of us."  No sooner had I finished the sentence, when the doorbell rang.  It was someone who had borrowed $20 I had forgotten about, there to give me the money.  I closed the door, turned to my wife, and handed her the $20.
    Very wise advice. I've found that the worst things that have happened to me have been due to my own distrust in Providence. I may have lost a job out of zeal that supported us well, but Providentially, things are working out now to continue to provide for our needs with my new wage being close to that of my old. Our move south is lining up well, I have more money coming from my separation benefit, a job lined up, home pre-approval, and even moving our possessions can be piggy-backed into my father-in-law's company-provided moving benefits for their move. There's even a Byzantine Catholic church a reasonable distance from where we're looking to move.

    Seek first the Kingdom, trust in God, and He will provide temporally if it is best for our souls.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]