Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Debate That Will Split The Atom  (Read 8695 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 46428
  • Reputation: +27341/-5047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2025, 02:40:32 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Lad recently admitted so when he stated that he disagrees with "certain" Catholic positions held by pretty much every Traditional Catholic priest, even though said priests "graduated" from seminary and dedicated their lives to Catholic teachings and principles.

    You also need a bit of refresher in English reading comprehension.  I stated that there's no single prominent Trad bishop/priest with whom I agree about EVERY SINGLE position of theirs.  I agree with some of Bishop A and some of Bishop B and some of Priest A and some of Priest B.  That does not mean I disagree on every issue with every Trad priest.  But then you've demonstrated that you could stand a Logic 101 class several times already.  My point was a denunciation of the "tribal" secterian group-think of many Trad groups where if I'm a "Kelly-ite" I must agree with everything that has ever passed through Bishop Kelly's lips, and can't agree with him mostly but think he's wrong about the CMRI and validity of the +Thuc line.

    But evidently this confuses your weak mind.  So perhaps try to re-read the paragraph above, slowly, several times, until you comprehend.

    Nor are these "positions" to be confused with "Catholicism" as many "Catholics" can disagree on these issues, and many Catholics even historically disagreed on pretty much every point of Catholic theology short of dogma for centuries.  Nor is there a "set" of such positions corresponding to some Trad group that constitutes "True Catholicism".

    I grow weary of having this moronic baboon constantly vomiting forth his stupidity and causing me to waste my time.

    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 636
    • Reputation: +131/-170
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #16 on: March 11, 2025, 09:19:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • He does a good job exposing Satanic occultists and the Deep State but he's a firm Orthodox Christian who thinks he can debunk (true) Catholicism. We all know the Novus Ordo is easily debunked. The debate would be on Church dogma and history. :popcorn:
    Ladislaus doesn’t have the nous man :mad:
    Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1008
    • Reputation: +632/-681
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #17 on: March 11, 2025, 09:46:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would have a moderator do their best to get both sides to agree to a statement of each debated point before moving on. These agreed upon points will remain visible during the debate, so there is no loss of progress causing endless circular arguing. It would also keep the individuals on point, so they don't jump around and never nail down agreed upon principles.
    hαɾɾιson Smith of Infowars would be an excellent moderator. Level-headed, very smart, honest man.
    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline SoldierofCtK

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 242
    • Reputation: +242/-27
    • Gender: Male
      • YouTube Channel
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #18 on: March 12, 2025, 08:15:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I wanted to comment on this thread as I had just left a comment on Dyer's channel a few days ago, to which he never replied. About a month ago, the Dimonds posted a video calling out Dyer for a debate on Palamism; still waiting a response. A favorite YouTuber of mine, MadebyJimBob, recently joined the schismatics after becoming acquainted with Dyer and Andrew Wilson of the Crucible. This might be mostly an internet phenomenon, but the schismatics are gaining momentum in this niche.

    Dyer and other false apologists mainly focus on ripping apart conciliar popes and the false church or cherry-picking obscure quotes from the past. Foolishly, Dyer has a 2 hour video "debunking sedevacantism" using Pontrello's book. As others have pointed out, these men are flip-floppers and likely grifters. I left a few comments on another schismatic channel Ubi Petrus, where they also called out the Dimonds. Turns out the Dyer hosts a Twitter live stream where he controls who comes on or when it's time for the opponent to stop talking. The Dimonds want a formal debate on a neutral channel, similar to Pints with Aquinas. Dyer wouldn't last more than 5 minutes.
    +J.M.J.+

    Fides Ex Auditu - Faith Comes From Hearing
    YouTube - SoldierofCtK

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 38
    • Reputation: +32/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #19 on: March 12, 2025, 08:30:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dyer and other false apologists mainly focus on ripping apart conciliar popes and the false church or cherry-picking obscure quotes from the past. Foolishly, Dyer has a 2 hour video "debunking sedevacantism" using Pontrello's book. As others have pointed out, these men are flip-floppers and likely grifters. I left a few comments on another schismatic channel Ubi Petrus, where they also called out the Dimonds. Turns out the Dyer hosts a Twitter live stream where he controls who comes on or when it's time for the opponent to stop talking. The Dimonds want a formal debate on a neutral channel, similar to Pints with Aquinas. Dyer wouldn't last more than 5 minutes.

    Yes I have seen some supporters of Dyer tell the Dimonds that they can just hop on those twitter spaces. That would be garbage (where it can be cut off at any time) compared to a proper formal debate. I'd love to see it happen but I think it's clear that Dyer would never agree to that.


    Offline SoldierofCtK

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 242
    • Reputation: +242/-27
    • Gender: Male
      • YouTube Channel
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #20 on: March 12, 2025, 08:36:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes I have seen some supporters of Dyer tell the Dimonds that they can just hop on those twitter spaces. That would be garbage (where it can be cut off at any time) compared to a proper formal debate. I'd love to see it happen but I think it's clear that Dyer would never agree to that.
    I agree. Dyer might make the excuse of it not being worth his time, but he just entertained a "debate" with a so-called "Zionist Catholic," probably knowing it would be an easy win and boost his channel. Dyer does not seem honest.
    +J.M.J.+

    Fides Ex Auditu - Faith Comes From Hearing
    YouTube - SoldierofCtK

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 38
    • Reputation: +32/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #21 on: March 12, 2025, 08:49:18 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I agree. Dyer might make the excuse of it not being worth his time, but he just entertained a "debate" with a so-called "Zionist Catholic," probably knowing it would be an easy win and boost his channel. Dyer does not seem honest.

    I does seem like he is dishonest. Dimond's terms seem very fair (standard neutral debate rules) and Dyer claims to be one who's well up for debate normally.

    Offline VerdenFell

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 310
    • Reputation: +282/-37
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #22 on: March 12, 2025, 01:35:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know if this point has ever been touched upon in Catholic vs Orthodox debates but
    it seems to me that what comprises the Orthodox church can't be considered universal in nature
    in so far as they never fulfilled the great commission of our Lord. Worldwide their reach has been quite limited.
    Orthodox churches were established in mostly Eastern European nations and a handful of other places
    and they basically said, "we're good over here!"
    Now that could have been due to Muslim occupation or the constant threat of invasion. 
    When they were barely hanging on they had little incentive or means to undertake the scale
    of missionary work like the Roman Catholic Church. 
    How many Orthodox churches are even in all of South America, Asia, the pacific islands, India, the African sub continent? 
    Even mormons have a greater footprint in these places!


    Offline DecemRationis

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2312
    • Reputation: +867/-144
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #23 on: March 12, 2025, 02:10:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, I'm beginning to come to that conclusion.  I'd rather see a respectful discussion and exchange of ideas, where both parties are seeking the truth and not attempting to "win" or "overcome" the other side.  This exacerbates the dialectic of extremes, where the sides over-react to one another, get entrenched in their positions, and often error in the opposite direction.

    If I had to structure a "debate", I would make it so that it would be alternating 2-minute segments of talking, more an exchange of ideas, a back and forth, than some kind of competition or contest, putting on display the worst qualifies of sophistry.

    Very few people are open to looking for the truth but simply want to be proven right.

    Agreed. I'd tweak your two minute rule as follows:

    All you need for a real debate is a simple rule of civility: one side doesn't talk until the other side has finished their response. That's it. Roughly two to three or so minutes should do. However, for a complicated point maybe  a bit more time would be needed for development. The key is avoiding repetition and soap boxing. If a moderator were necessary, it'd be simply to say,  "ok, you've made your point and are getting repetitive" if someone abuses that format and goes on and on, or "you're interrupting and he hasn't completed his response."  Most of the discussion type debates go wrong where one side interrupts and cuts the other off. The simple rule above would rein that in.

    The formal "openings, rebuttals, cross exams and closing" dog and pony show is not very productive.
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DecemRationis

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2312
    • Reputation: +867/-144
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #24 on: March 12, 2025, 02:20:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I agree. Dyer might make the excuse of it not being worth his time, but he just entertained a "debate" with a so-called "Zionist Catholic," probably knowing it would be an easy win and boost his channel. Dyer does not seem honest.

    One of the Dimonds should call in anyway (if that's the right terminology) and let Dyer cut him off or show himself needing to bail out of the debate to save face. 

    I remember one of the Dimonds calling into Jame White's show, and that was entertaining.

    They should try to avail themselves of Dyer's open invitation. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SoldierofCtK

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 242
    • Reputation: +242/-27
    • Gender: Male
      • YouTube Channel
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #25 on: March 12, 2025, 02:55:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They should try to avail themselves of Dyer's open invitation.
    I only learned this from one of the other commenters and emailed MHFM's email suggesting they reach out to some of the debate channels. I have no knowledge of any direct communication between Dyer and them, so I'm hoping word will get around.
    +J.M.J.+

    Fides Ex Auditu - Faith Comes From Hearing
    YouTube - SoldierofCtK


    Offline LakeEnjoyer

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 38
    • Reputation: +32/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #26 on: March 12, 2025, 03:38:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know if this point has ever been touched upon in Catholic vs Orthodox debates but
    it seems to me that what comprises the Orthodox church can't be considered universal in nature
    in so far as they never fulfilled the great commission of our Lord. Worldwide their reach has been quite limited.
    Orthodox churches were established in mostly Eastern European nations and a handful of other places
    and they basically said, "we're good over here!"
    Now that could have been due to Muslim occupation or the constant threat of invasion.
    When they were barely hanging on they had little incentive or means to undertake the scale
    of missionary work like the Roman Catholic Church.
    How many Orthodox churches are even in all of South America, Asia, the pacific islands, India, the African sub continent?
    Even mormons have a greater footprint in these places!

    I remember bringing this up in the past and my "Orthodox" opponent mentioned something along the lines of converting 100 eskimos in Alaska...

    Offline Godefroy

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 532
    • Reputation: +565/-59
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #27 on: March 12, 2025, 04:06:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I remember bringing this up in the past and my "Orthodox" opponent mentioned something along the lines of converting 100 eskimos in Alaska...
    I suspect that the Orthodox will argue that most of the world was evangelised by the year 1000 and that the Roman Catholics fell away from the one true faith because of excessive papacy in the political sphere especially under Gregory VII and others before him. 

    Offline LeDeg

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 778
    • Reputation: +535/-135
    • Gender: Male
    • I am responsible only to God and history.
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #28 on: March 12, 2025, 04:49:58 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I think the area that the Dimond's will struggle with is the issue that Dyer, Ubi Petrus and David Erhan would most assuredly zero in on, and that is the Pseudo Isidorian decretals, the Symmachian forgeries and the Donation of Constantine. I have implored the Dimonds on many occasions to address this with a video, as the implications are quite serious,  and not only have they ignored it, they censored my request on other video comment sections.


    My next best alternative was to ask Bishop Sanborn on a recorded Q&A with Stephen Heiner and they censored me as well. I realize the issue is unknown amongst most Catholics, but it is a serious one that EO apologists have been making hay with as of late. By ignoring or censoring the topic, it implies a point for the Eastern side. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline SoldierofCtK

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 242
    • Reputation: +242/-27
    • Gender: Male
      • YouTube Channel
    Re: Debate That Will Split The Atom
    « Reply #29 on: March 12, 2025, 05:06:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think the area that the Dimond's will struggle with is the issue that Dyer, Ubi Petrus and David Erhan would most assuredly zero in on, and that is the Pseudo Isidorian decretals, the Symmachian forgeries and the Donation of Constantine. I have implored the Dimonds on many occasions to address this with a video, as the implications are quite serious,  and not only have they ignored it, they censored my request on other video comment sections.


    My next best alternative was to ask Bishop Sanborn on a recorded Q&A with Stephen Heiner and they censored me as well. I realize the issue is unknown amongst most Catholics, but it is a serious one that EO apologists have been making hay with as of late. By ignoring or censoring the topic, it implies a point for the Eastern side.
    I've never heard of these arguments before, thanks for sharing!

    Isn't papal supremacy and primacy argued more from Scripture, Tradition and the Church Fathers?
    +J.M.J.+

    Fides Ex Auditu - Faith Comes From Hearing
    YouTube - SoldierofCtK