Author Topic: Beauty of ones spouse. Is it necessary? (Read 31266 times)

wallflower · « **Reply #135 on:** March 21, 2012, 07:30:50 PM »

Well I did know I was treading dangerous waters by even asking that first question. But I wanted to be sure Tele was unchanged on the subject before comparing him and Graham. Graham seems to be taking a balanced approach so far although I would say please don't take on Tele's tactics of pretending men are being shamed for wanting young pretty wives. One post seemed to be echoing that. Men are being shamed for wanting them inordinately, at the expense of the many other more spiritual aspects of marriage. If you do not desire it inordinately you are not being shamed at all.

I will say that as a farm girl the cows analogy is not shocking to me. Breeding animals is a part of reality and everyday life for as long as I can remember. It may be shocking to those who can't relate to it but trust me, when a cow's fertility starts to wane, so does her worth. It's not much of a stretch to go from there to

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Why should I seek such women out, when they're getting close to the end of their fertility?

It's ALL about the physical and what-can-I-get-out-of-it. Tele can rail at me all he wants but those are his own words coming back to him.

God forbid Tele gets his 18 year old and she happens to be infertile. I wonder how he would handle his "dissatisfaction" in his marriage? He has no ability to even entertain the thought that life might hold different possibilities.

The funny thing is it's not even anything one can know before marriage. If it were that much of a deal-breaker as to lower a person's worth as a spouse or in being sought out as a spouse, God would have made it obvious beforehand and made it an impediment to marriage.

Thank you s2srea for reposting my words in context and I assure you I am not hurt at all by Tele's attack. DH and I had a good discussion over it over dinner so it was put to good use.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #136 on:** March 21, 2012, 07:42:00 PM »

Quote from: wallflower

Well I did know I was treading dangerous waters by even asking that first question. But I wanted to be sure Tele was unchanged on the subject before comparing him and Graham. Graham seems to be taking a balanced approach so far although I would say please don't take on Tele's tactics of pretending men are being shamed for wanting young pretty wives.

They're not being shamed, but you compare it to thinking of women as cows. Uh-huh.

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One post seemed to be echoing that. Men are being shamed for wanting them inordinately, at the expense of the many other more spiritual aspects of marriage.

No, I"m being shamed specifically for not seeking out 32 year old women. I'm also being accused of not valuing other more spiritual aspects. That is of course something you believe to be true, and you are smearing me with the accusation, even though you are wrong about that.

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If you do not desire it inordinately you are not being shamed at all.

I will say that as a farm girl the cows analogy is not shocking to me. Breeding animals is a part of reality and everyday life for as long as I can remember. It may be shocking to those who can't relate to it but trust me, when a cow's fertility starts to wane, so does her worth. It's not much of a stretch to go from there to

You said I was equating women to cows. Now you say you don't think you were being particularly insulting! lol, these trad women from these cults are pathologically dishonest.

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It's ALL about the physical and what-can-I-get-out-of-it. Tele can rail at me all he wants but those are his own words coming back to him.

That doesn't follow. Why should I deliberately seek out a woman who doesn't have the qualities I"m looking for? I wouldn't expect a woman to seek out a man who doesn't have the qualities she's looking for.

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God forbid Tele gets his 18 year old and she happens to be infertile. I wonder how he would handle his "dissatisfaction" in his marriage? He has no ability to even entertain the thought that life might hold different possibilities.

The funny thing is it's not even anything one can know before marriage. If it were that much of a deal-breaker as to lower a person's worth as a spouse or in being sought out as a spouse, God would have made it obvious beforehand and made it an impediment to marriage.

Actually, it can be known, and if it's kept secret and isn't revealed, it can nullify a marriage.

I never said I wanted a guarantee a woman was fertile. Nothing can be guaranteed in life. It does not therefore follow that there is no difference between a girl under 20 and woman over 30. Except in the bizarre "logic" of a femitrad.

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Thank you s2srea for reposting my words in context and I assure you I am not hurt at all by Tele's attack. DH and I had a good discussion over it over dinner so it was put to good use.

As I said, I know very well you are without shame, having a deadened conscience.

It's nothing to you to slander me by saying that wanting a younger woman to have more children is equating women to cows. Nothing to you, because you're a bitchy femitrad who has no qualms about smearing men.

Marcelino · « **Reply #137 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:31:02 PM »

Quote from: Graham

Quote from: spouse of Jesus
All of us desire beauty, I think nearly everybody feels like Graham. But I needed to know if marrying an undesirable person is a "risk to family ties and fidelity" or not. Because there are many who think that choosing an ugly person weakens one's power to resist and makes them vulnerable to sin. Such people think that even if they don't end in cheating, their love would be killed by constant dissatisfaction and dislike leading to an empty cold relationship.

Marrying someone less attractive can readily result in a bad marriage - yes. It can cause the less attractive spouse to behave insecurely and jealously, possibly due to the attention the other one gets, and it can cause the more attractive to feel resentful, and all of this can come together in a vicious circle that worsens over time.

So as far as possible, marriages should be contracted between partners of relatively equal attractiveness, objectively considered. This entails different things for each sex, since men and women's instincts dictate quite different mating strategies, with female instinct seeking a mixture of social dominance and ability to provide, and male instinct seeking fecundity and chastity. This is in broad outline, so I'd be happy to discuss this more if anybody doesn't follow my meaning, or feels the need to interject something about how I'm not considering individual differences and tastes. Those have their place, but that place is beneath the universal.

It need hardly be mentioned that it's a mistake to believe instincts can safely be ignored or even that they're of the devil.

That sounds like pretty good match making, but in the end, folks have to learn to live with what they've got.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #138 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:47:49 PM »

Matthew, how about locking this thread, please? The arguing on this thread is out of control.

Marcelino · « **Reply #139 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:20:08 PM »

I suppose some hurt feelings out there and maybe some gloating. I hope folks will be nicer to each other in the future :alcohol:

Anyway, sort of rising above the fray and remaining neutral in it, I wonder about this "baby factory" thing. I recall that being a catch phrase of the women's movement in America and I wouldn't think that was truly grassroots, at least not by the time it gained real power.

In other words, wasn't it used by a corrupt media to talk women into the workplace and out of the home. Maybe they used a message like, "you aren't just a baby factory, you have more to contribute than just that."

Of course, with inflation and wages so low, who really has a choice. For so many couples, both are forced to work just to make ends meet and as a result, have very few if any children. So, maybe this concept is pushed by the regime to make women feel like they are gaining, instead of losing and to make men feel guilty for not looking at it that way.

I think Environmentalism is often used/abused in that way too, to make people who can't afford much gasoline anymore, to feel like they are saving the planet!