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Author Topic: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?  (Read 2527 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2023, 11:59:37 AM »
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  • I found it!

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: AI
    « Reply #16 on: March 16, 2023, 02:38:37 PM »
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  • It would be as simple for a angel (fallen or unfallen) to inject/manipulate signals or values into a computer's memory, passing through an ethernet cable, etc. as it would be for us to impress a 2 year old with a hand-puppet. 

    Yes, that's more along the lines of what I mean by a devil taking "possession" of an AI system, basically controlling it in order to manipulate it (so using the term a bit loosely).


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: AI
    « Reply #17 on: March 16, 2023, 02:41:55 PM »
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  • They've been predicting programmer-free software design since the 1980's. Remember Visual Basic?
    It's a fundamental truth: You can't have design without a designer.

    Yeah, the idea behind Visual Basic was that business folks would be able to write software.  Didn't work out that way at all, since you still needed pretty serious programming skills ... certainly not at the level where you had to write C++ on Windows to build and position every little button and label by hand, but there was still a lot of business logic and algorithm required.

    In MS Access, they had similar "forms", so that there truly anyone could write a data reading and data entry type of app without programming.  But it you wanted to do something special with the data beside read, edit, and save ... there was programming there too.

    I've seen Visual Basic programs that consisted of nearly 100,000 lines of code.  I was one of those VB programmers back in the day, from about 1999 - 2001, and I wrote all kinds of stuff, including image processing applications that got pretty sophisticated.  Of course, many programmers felt that VB programmers weren't "real" programmers, but I transitioned to both C# and Java without skipping a beat.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: AI
    « Reply #18 on: March 16, 2023, 03:08:47 PM »
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  • I found it!



    Yeah, this is riduclous.  They probably wouldn't be able to even quantify the building of a cell, since the probabiliy is ZERO.  So even this one protein is almost impossible, but the smallest cell requires dozens of proteins and other things, and they would have to all happen in the same tiny space all at the same time, and then organize themselves.

    Protein 1:  "Hey, Protein 2.  Come over here.  Let's hold hands and form part of a cell memebrane."
    Protein 2: "OK."
    Protein 3: "You two come over here and we'll build a bigger membrane."
    Protein 2: "No, you come over here."
    Protein 1: "Now we need to figure out how to reproduce.  Where are proteins 4-20?"
    Protein 4: "Now we need proteins 21-30 to work out an excretory function."

    ... as if proteins had any kind of intelligence or awareness to begin with.

    This is so ridiculous that only a bad-willed atheist or utter moron could believe it, a moron who's orders of magnitude more stupid than these proteins would have to be to organize together to build a functional living organism.

    I've always considered this.  When an embryo is fertilized and a new human life is created, the cells start dividing.  They are all identical cells.  At what point do they start differentiating and then organizing.  Who's doing the organizing and who's taking the lead on it?  "Hey, you, go over there and start forming bone."  "Now, you, become heart cells."  "You become a blood cells."  "We need more of you now."  No given cell can organize and orchestrate the entire exercise.  Of all the identical cells that form when the fertilized egg begins dividing, who takes charge?  And how do they communicate complex instructions with each other?

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #19 on: March 16, 2023, 05:49:37 PM »
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  • I don't know why more Americans don't just go abroad for college. Very expensive, yes, but probably still a hell of a lot cheaper than going to college stateside, especially if your college is far from home and you have to rent a dorm, etc.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: AI
    « Reply #20 on: March 16, 2023, 07:30:24 PM »
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  •  Of all the identical cells that form when the fertilized egg begins dividing, who takes charge?  And how do they communicate complex instructions with each other?
    I am not convinced it is miraculous, but some complex system of communication between cells, so they know where they are based on the DNA code. It would be very interesting to know how it works.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
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    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #21 on: March 16, 2023, 07:44:47 PM »
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  • They've been predicting programmer-free software design since the 1980's. Remember Visual Basic?
    It's a fundamental truth: You can't have design without a designer.

    As long as they want things designed, they're going to need human engineers to design it. Computers will never be able to take over, because they're dumb as rocks. Fast, but stupid. Without a human intellect to program them, they can't do anything useful.

    But of course some modern idiots think that something as complex and wonderful as LIVING ANIMALS came about by random chance -- no designer required. 1 million monkeys typing at 1 million typewriters for 1 million years could eventually write the works of Shakespeare by accident. Yeah right!

    Humans aren't good at mind-boggling numbers. It DOES make sense, yes. But what they don't grasp is this: before those monkeys came up with Shakespeare, it would take 10 to the 3000th power years, and the universe would die a heat death before then. All the stars in the universe would burn out first. So effectively it IS impossible.

    Some creationist ran the numbers. They first pointed out that according to mathematicians and scientists, anything more than 10 to the 40th or so is considered "impossible". Then they gave us the "bad news" on how long it would take to create one strand of DNA... It was glorious. I don't have the video handy, but I think I own it somewhere.
    It's the fast detail that is the computer's advantage. With this extreme speed it can consider various designs based on information it already knows, and with any adaptability programs it can design new things, do all the math to test and compare designs to see what fits the intended parameters, and even learn from those results to invent and experiment with new designs. It's just what people would do, but much faster. So, although there may be some lack in true natural artistic imagination, a very complex computer should still be able to design things that we may think are amazing or genius solutions, if programmed with the right inventing and problem solving processes.

    There's a program that has been in use for many years now that experiments and calulates until it finds the strongest and lightest solution for a part for whatever piece of engineering needs it.

    I really think computers can be made to think and do just about everything a human can short of receive divine inspiration, or pray, or something like that.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #22 on: March 16, 2023, 08:06:09 PM »
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  • It's the fast detail that is the computer's advantage. With this extreme speed it can consider various designs based on information it already knows, and with any adaptability programs it can design new things, do all the math to test and compare designs to see what fits the intended parameters, and even learn from those results to invent and experiment with new designs. It's just what people would do, but much faster. So, although there may be some lack in true natural artistic imagination, a very complex computer should still be able to design things that we may think are amazing or genius solutions, if programmed with the right inventing and problem solving processes.

    There's a program that has been in use for many years now that experiments and calulates until it finds the strongest and lightest solution for a part for whatever piece of engineering needs it.

    I really think computers can be made to think and do just about everything a human can short of receive divine inspiration, or pray, or something like that.
    I've been using ChatGPT to help me with a coding project and, while it is astounding (even just a couple years ago I couldn't imagine this), it won't be a replacement for even a single developer any time soon. It's code is only useable if there's someone giving it detailed prompts (and I don't mean in a business-requirements sense, but the prompt-giver must also understand that software architecture and implementation required) and who can read over the code to check for and point out errors, and then take these code snippets and adapt them to fit in wherever they're needed in the codebase. At the moment it's only use-case is to give you some inspiration, like how a StackOverflow question might show you how something may be designed, and information (because of course you can ask it "what functions are available to do X in Java?").

    It's possible that in a few years you'll be able to have some AI look at your entire codebase and give it some prompts to get it to produce code that actually has that in mind. Then we might have something that could most the work of a graduate developer. But, you need graduate devs to get senior devs, so it's not like companies will stop hiring grads.

    Where it'd become a real concern is when an AI service could do the work of dev with 5+ years of experience, but that's still a whole paradigm shift away IMO, and even when we do get to that point, it'll just mean devs switching over to being prompt-engineers. You would gradually need a lot less devs, but the software sector continues to grow, so I don't know if we'll ever see mass lay-offs or redundancies (at least in the foreseeable future). It could just happen that the decline in the number of devs needed to do produce X lines of code gets counteracted by an increase in the amount of lines needing to be written.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #23 on: March 17, 2023, 03:41:53 PM »
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  • I can foresee the possibility of AI becoming so complex that there will be job openings for people who can continuously update it to correct and prevent errors or inefficiencies, which could be called AI mental illnesses. 
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: AI
    « Reply #24 on: March 17, 2023, 06:47:23 PM »
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  • I am not convinced it is miraculous, but some complex system of communication between cells, so they know where they are based on the DNA code. It would be very interesting to know how it works.

    Not, it's not miraculous, but it's also not due a material cause.  You conflate miracle and supernatural with material cause.  This organization and marshalling of the cells comes from the animal soul in any living organism.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #25 on: March 18, 2023, 12:34:45 PM »
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  • There's a program that has been in use for many years now that experiments and calulates until it finds the strongest and lightest solution for a part for whatever piece of engineering needs it.

    I really think computers can be made to think and do just about everything a human can short of receive divine inspiration, or pray, or something like that.
    .

    This is a physical process, though. Computers are great at doing anything physical or mathematical. What they can't do is think in an abstract manner.

    What you're describing sounds like going through either a series of trial-and-error designs and testing all of them using a software simulation, or maybe implementing principles of efficiency and design that were programmed into it by a human being. There's no real difficulty with saying a machine can do those things. But it would take a human being to invent a completely new technology, for example, or implement an already-existing technology in a completely new way.

    In general I think AI is way overhyped. The examples of how it's used that I've seen do not impress me at all. They've been talking about self-driving cars using AI to detect objects for many years, and it was just a few years ago one of these wretched things broadsided a fire truck, killing the person inside (the driver), because its AI didn't detect a fire truck directly in its path.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #26 on: March 18, 2023, 02:32:36 PM »
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  • Interestingly, just the other day, I had a VP at our company ask me to look into developing software with AI.  Of course, what he has in mind is to replace a bunch of us programmers with automatic software development.  It's a total pipe dream.  What is he going to do, pick up a microphone and say, "build some software to analyze our engineering data"?  :laugh1:  That's about as close as these guys would get to being able to produce requirements.  Our systems are extremely complex with some very specialized business rules.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #27 on: March 18, 2023, 05:40:54 PM »
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  • AI is the latest hype. Remember when people thought search engines were omniscient? Well, let me tell you Google has PLENTY of blindspots, empty spots, or holes. Google does NOT know everything. Google lets you down plenty of times. Especially those of us interested in OLD things. And lately, if you want anything other than the Official Story or the "mainstream consensus" opinion on an issue, forget it!
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #28 on: April 03, 2023, 11:48:26 PM »
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  • At the same time, 4 year colleges and universities are a total scam, where 3/4 of your coursework is in areas outside your "Major" field of studies, calculated to keep throngs of Leftist art history professors employed.  AND the professors of Computer Science have either never or only decades ago actually written software for a living.  Often they teach abstract concepts using antiquated and barely used computer languages.

    I have had thoughts to start up a "school" that would offer Bacherlor Degrees ... although they'd be "unaccredited".  If you put on your resume that you have a Bachelor's from this institution, nowhere are you claiming that it's from an "accredited university".  I've never had a prospective employer check with my university about whether I had actually ever even gone there.  But if they do, I'd be prepared to send information explaining why this degree is superior to that of a 4-year university.  I've had to deal with new-hire "Computer Science" grads before, and they knew next to nothing, and left me wondering why they had paid $100,000 in college tuition.


    I'm thinking the degree is only useful to get past the HR department, the goal being to actually get a technical interview.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Any interest in Computer Programming (in C#) course?
    « Reply #29 on: April 04, 2023, 10:53:00 AM »
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  • I'm thinking the degree is only useful to get past the HR department, the goal being to actually get a technical interview.

    100% agreed ... in IT at any rate.  There are some fields where you definitely need the degree ... because it's equivalent to being licensed.