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Author Topic: Any Heliocentrists on CI?  (Read 7874 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Any Heliocentrists on CI?
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2021, 10:58:03 AM »
I will let Cardinal Ratzinger show you this elimination of the doctrine of immediate Creation, whole, finished in all its essence be God at the beginning of time. Here is ratzinger telling us how that doctrine has gone missing within Catholic doctrine and theology.

That Ratz is an arch-Modernist and faithless dog is hardly news to members of CI.  Making the occasional astute observation regarding the utter destruction that he was, in a real sense, helping to guide is hardly praiseworthy.

As most of us were raised entirely within and during this era of ever-intensifying godlessness, discovering what Holy Church actually teaches and has always taught, as well as many natural truths that have long been obscured is quite an amazing adventure.  We have been lied to about practically everything and the Reign of the Liars is coming to an end.

Re: Any Heliocentrists on CI?
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2021, 11:03:29 AM »
What is "the subject" as you see it?

You apparently presume the overall discussion is intended to be essentially or principally theological.  Clearly, this has not been and is not presently the case.  While theology is certainly superior to all of the natural sciences, it is clearly not the only science.

There is no doubt that the overall discussion with regard to geocentrism and heretical heliocentrism is theological.  There is a history of accusations against the Church since heliocentrism was said to have been proven by science. Fr Roberts showed in his booklet that papal infallibility was proven wrong by its 1616 decree against heliocentrism. Hans Kung said the same. The Catholic Church has been ridiculed by the lie that its defence of revelation was proven wrong.
Here are some quotes;

‘For over three and a half centuries, the trial of Galileo has been an anti-Catholic bludgeon wielded to show the Church as the enemy of enlightenment, freedom of thought and scientific advancement. In the cultural wars of our own day, Galileo has become an all-encompassing trump-card, played whenever the discussion is over science, abortion, gαy rights, legalised pornography, or simply as a legitimate reason for blatant anti-Catholicism.’ --- Robert Lockwood: The Galileo Affair, Position Papers, May 2001.

Voltaire wrote:  ‘Miserable human beings, whether in green robes, turbans, black robes or surplices, cloaks and neckbands, never seek to use authority when it is a question only of reason; or consent to be scoffed at throughout the centuries as the most impertinent of all men, and to suffer public hatred as the most unjust. A hundred times has one spoken to you of the insolent absurdity with which you condemned Galileo, and I speak to you for the hundred and first, and I hope you will keep the anniversary of it for ever; I desire that [the following] be engraved on the door of your Holy Office: “Here seven cardinals, assisted by minor brethren, had the master of thought in Italy thrown into prison at the age of seventy; made him fast on bread and water because he instructed the human race, and because they were ignorant.”’ --- Selected and Translated by H. I. Woolf, New York: Knopf, 1924. 

The following comment came from an atheist in 1879 reveals!
 
‘If the people of Europe had known as much of astronomy and geology when the Bible was introduced among them, as they do now, there never could have been one believer in the doctrine of [divine] inspiration. If the writers of the various parts of the bible had known as much about the sciences as is now known by every intelligent man, the Bible never could have been written. It was produced by ignorance and has been believed and defended by its author. It has lost power in the proportion that man has gained knowledge. A few years ago, this Bible was appealed to in the settlement of all scientific questions; but now, even the clergy confess that in such matters, it has ceased to speak with the voice of authority. For the establishment of facts, the word of man is now considered far better than the word of God. In the world of science, Jehovah was superseded by Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler. All that God told Moses, admitting the entire account to be true, is dust and ashes compared to the discoveries of Descartes, Laplace, Humboldt. In matters of fact, the Bible has ceased to be regarded as a standard. Science has succeeded in breaking the chains of theology. Some years ago, Science endeavored to show that it was not inconsistent with the Scriptures. The tables have been turned, and now, Religion is endeavoring to prove that the Bible is not inconsistent with science. The standard has been changed’ --- Some Mistakes of Moses.

 That is what Catholicism was accused of after the heliocentric fraud was accepted by popes.





Re: Any Heliocentrists on CI?
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2021, 11:34:05 AM »
Moreover, If Satan himself wanted to undermine the importance heliocentrism in the history of the Catholic faith, he could not have surpassed the way this FLAT-EARTH subject has totally undermined the history of the geocentric V heliocentric clash in the history of the Catholic churchn and history of the world.

Robert Sungenis had dared to pull the leg of Lawrence Krauss and others, in revenge they sent out Dubay, and now we have half of CIF members following Dubay, or at least thinking about it.

Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Any Heliocentrists on CI?
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2021, 12:41:55 PM »
There is no doubt that the overall discussion with regard to geocentrism and heretical heliocentrism is theological.

 That is what Catholicism was accused of after the heliocentric fraud was accepted by popes.

So, is it principally a metaphysical question, as your previous post stated, or theological?  Or is it cosmological?  You do know metaphysics is a branch/discipline of philosophy and not theology, right?  Cosmology is also a discipline of philosophy.

No one here is claiming Holy Church hasn't been accused of a great many things.  The stance that clerics have taken toward usury these last few centuries is problematic, to put it mildly.  We're just seeking to solidly ascertain the truth about the place we live and move and have our being, if you will.

Re: Any Heliocentrists on CI?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2021, 01:08:11 PM »
Putting the question thusly [If the question was put like this 'are there any heretical heliocentrists on CIF' it would have put the question in the right context.] might make someone think there is such a thing as "orthodox heliocentrism" -- something you have shown does not exist.  Ergo, your point is pointless.

Yes gladius, badly phraised. Should have been 'are there any heliocentric heretics on CIF.'

Let me now clarify this heliocentric heresy. If it based on one's absolute belief that geocentrism is proven wrong then it is material heresy, no blame attached. This was the reason why Pope Pius VII and Pope Gregory XVI took the heliocentric books off the Index that SUGGESTED heliocentrism was not the heresy defind as such in 1616. 

But what if one is told that heliocentrism was never proven, nor geocentrism proven wrong? It was Einstein who saved heliocentrism as a possibility of spacial relativity? In other words human knowledge cannot prove which one is correct. But God does know and He revealed the sun moves in Scripture and it was this revelation that all the Fathers and popes took as God's word on the matter. The history of the doctrine of Geocentrism demonstrates this. 

In other words, once informed of the truth, any who reject God's revelation in preference for a humnan choice offerted by Einstein and atheistic science, could well be guilty of formal heresy.